What is your method?

Suited up at a dive club. Preferably a 3-piece polyester suit
Hang out til closing and find the youngest, drunkest, most desperate girl left.

Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

Start off with buying enough whiskey to get the both of you drunk. Then start tipping her under the table until you reach about $160 just enough to get her attention. Right before you leave inject her full of heroin. Then tell the club manager your driving her home then slip him $50. Once you have arrived at the motel six she is going to vomit. Let her do so with the bathroom door open. Once she is finished start face fucking her until she vomits again. Shoot her up with more heroin then have unprotected vaginal sex until she is unconscious. Once your done drop her of at any random corner I'm sure her pimp with find her. Finally log onto stripper web and tuscl and brag about your adventures

About 14~17% chance of the dancer bringing it up on her own. It must be my polyester dress slacks.

Just be careful which stripper you hook up with. Several years ago I thought an Apache attack helicopter was following me around when I was driving towards Fayetteville. I had no doubt when I had a red light at an intersection in a small town. The pilot swooped down over the intersection and I could see him hovering up there. Nothing like being obvious about it to end the doubt.

I usually bring it up face to face in the club but i have brought up via text.

Text her a dick pic w/ the caption "your mouth here?" - bingo!

I'm finding it easier and easier to arrange P4P with strippers. These ladies are "sex workers" who are looking for ways to make money. They are asked for sex all the time, so it's no big deal. Just ask, as Dougster would say.

Latest P4P was arranged when I told a dancer about my SB. The hot Latina immediately inquired, "Are you looking for another one?" Got the digits and have dinner and an overnighter planned. Should be fun!

Just ask her "can I see you outside the club?" & if she's receptive then tell her you'd like to have sex w/ her - you should be prepared ahead of time for either she says yes or no, if she says yes then you should have a fair price in mind already & be prepared to pass if she tries to hook you w/ an outrageous price, & if she says no then you can smooth things over by saying "cool no problem just wanted to know"

As usual only about half the comments are serious answers. I am trying to learn from you experienced guys and wish people would give serious answers. @Papi...I have already taken this girl out to dinner and she pretty much said we could go out again in the next week. The week has passed. I texted her tonight and she was at the club. She said she was going to be very busy working the next few weeks to make money to pay for vacations and said she wouldn't have time to hang out with anybody.

OTC by its nature usually has a high failure rate, so don't put all your emotional eggs in that basket - as anything else one only gets better w/ practice but some girls will & many/most will not.

If she is looking for money for vacations, I would offer to pay her money she would not have to share with the club to pay for those vacations in exchange for fs or whatever it is you want from her.

I sometimes "beat around the bush" about it ask if we could do some " dances " outside the club. If she agrees I'll offer to up the price for more than just dances. I usually do for the more straight arrow seeming girls. And then sometimes I just get right to it

I was being serious.

Men trading something of value in exchange for sex is as old as mankind itself. Among early hominids, sex was traded for food, protection, security.

Among millenials, sex is traded for rent money and car payments.

"bring up ldk. if that's too tame for them, they'll bring up FS."

Brilliant!

"Easy-peasy lemon squeezy."

Double brilliant!

I just talk about my dachshund and I get offers of free sex all of the time. Sexy girls love wiener dogs! They think they're ace!

Me: I really like you. Are you available for take-out?

Her: 'Yes' and she explains her rates, or "Oh, that's sweet but I don't do that'.

This is NOT rocket science!

Just ask.

"This is NOT rocket science!"

Ace! I guess it is rockstar science!

Direct question in the club, usually after we've done something in VIP to ascertain that she's willing, but occasionally before if I get a good vibe.

By direct question, I mean, "How do you feel about meeting somewhere else for what we've done here?"

Just ask her face to face in the club.

There's no reason to overthink it. To the extent I have a "method", it's:
- Ask her after we've been hanging out for a couple of hours, and probably both a little buzzed
- Be direct and make it *personal*. Always phrased like "Would you see ME outside the club", never "do you see customers outside the club" or whatever. Bunch of reasons I do that, that I won't get into

In one of the dive bikini bars i go to on a semi regular basis, chances are any of the girls will let you know if they are willing by the time you finish your 2nd $20 lapdance.
At other clubs I usually just go with something along the lines of "what would it take to get some private dances, or more, back at my hotel?" This will result in either a price list for dances and more or a simple "I don't work outside the club."

They all get asked this every night so even the ones who don't offer it won't really care that much. Some will be offended *gasp* but don't sweat it. They don't have any respect for you anyway so you aren't risking anything.

I treat all women as civilians, and in all situations. So any discussion of money has to start with them.

I approach them just as I would a girl I met at a party. I don't try to use money to persuade them to do anything.

SJG

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=97383

@jayhawk
I too took a stripper out for dinner after a few visits to the club. We had some text here and there and then we both went silent. When I see her at the club, all is good we talk alot and do a few dances, but have yet to go out again. Hopefully, yours stays cool and y'all get that second go out.

As far as a method per your original post, I've usually gone the let the girl bring it up route. Have had it happen twice. Both times were early in my strip club going so I guess that's why im as I am now. Recently though I've started asking after about 3 visits to the club and being with the dancer each time. When I ask I just ask if I can see them outside the club and throw in there I'll make it worth your time. Unfortunately, just haven't came across a taker yet.

When I am traveling what I expect to do is always talk to girls as civilians, but then the first time she says something about money, even if it is just for FS-ITC, I'll just say,

"Are you going to let me take care of you, with money, and with more than that? Because that is what I want. I can't be here all the time, so you'll have to take care of yourself, but I can give you money. So when I'm not here you're on your own, but when I am here you belong to me. You know how I want it to be, working hard all day, then making love all night. ( this last is to get the long toda la noche's, but while at the same time minimizing car keys and wallet dating, and the over all message is that the money is more like a retainer to keep her available for when I come into town, than literally paying for sex by the hour. )

SJG

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=97293

more Robin Trower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvp3Br1V…

After spending some time and cash with them at the sc just ask them in a clear and concise way for p4p. Just be clear on your intent like your asking for their phone number versus fucking for money. If you act like it is no big deal so will they.

^^^^^ But Lone_Wolf, the way you describe this I assume that right off you are offering her money for sex, or you are pitching this as though you assume that she probably sells sex for money. Am I correct?

Even though she may be accustomed to such, and even though she may do it all the time, what possible benefit could there be in talking to her that way?

And even if you don't care about the girl's feelings or about how she thinks about you, you must understand that asking her to engage in such does constitute a misdemeanor criminal offense.

I just cannot see any need whatsoever for talking to a girl like that, under any conditions.

SJG

Tijuana
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3752/96322…

-->"Even though she may be accustomed to such, and even though she may do it all the time, what possible benefit could there be in talking to her that way?"

SJG, the benefit -- and it is enormous -- is that now she can tell me whether or not she'll have sex with me for money, which is exactly the topic I am inquiring about, and if she says "yes", will in fact lead me to having sex with her. boo-ya!

But Subra then how will you ever get the emotional intimacy with her?

I was being serious too. I once clubbed in the same area as the 82nd airborne and some of those guys hooked up occasionally with some strippers. It's a good idea to ask if she has a boyfriend and what he does. If her bf is a two ton bouncer at the club, you might want to think twice about getting too much from her.

You can take a date like approach or a more blunt approach. The date like approach might actually succeed if she's single, interested, and not too far apart in age but it may not result in sex at least not right away. If she wants sex for money, they'll probably tell you bluntly almost right away unless LE is cracking down.

@Subraman....I would like to know more about why you phrase the question saying ME instead of do you see customers OTC. Can you say on here the reason or PM me

@jayhawk123: I do much the same thing. Using an personal pronoun, e.g. me or I, makes it personal. I'm not interested in whether she sees some vague set of "customers" outside the club for sex, I want to know if she'll see *me* outside the club for sex.

Just because she sees "customers" doesn't mean she'll see *me*, and it allows her to be vague about it without actually saying no to *me*. Phrasing the question in a personal way way makes it less likely, IME, that she'll be vague in her response, unless she's being outright evasive, which will then be obvious.

When I ask about me, and she responds that she sometimes sees "customers," she's avoiding the question. Sometimes I'll follow such a response up with "I'm not asking about 'customers,' I'm asking about *me*." If she's still evasive after that, it's a decent bet the answer is "no."

Yep, I'm aligned with gmd's reasoning above. I don't care whether she sees "customers" outside the club, and quite frankly, it's none of my business. I want to make the entire exchange as incredibly personal as I can, and anything but "yes" from her as uncomfortable as I can. Keep in mind here -- I believe part of my edge is that by the time I ask her about OTC, I'm relatively more well-known, likeable, and have already earned a high level of trust from her, and for that reason also, it's useful for me to separate myself in her mind from whatever she does or doesn't do with her run-of-the-mill customers. Many of the girls I go after for OTC are lower-volume girls, many at the beginning of their careers, many who waffle at first and it takes a few weeks to get them to "yes", and I believe (perhaps wrongly) that making this a personal decision about me, rather than a general decision about what she wants to do with "customers" in general, is the reason girls who are super low volume (or may never have done OTC at all) say yes to me.

Real example with a happy ending: 2 years ago I met the most beautiful stripper I've ever seen in a strip club, about a month or two after she started stripping; and not just beautiful, one of the most fun, awesome personalities ever. Long story short, I ATFed her almost immediately, and a bunch of weeks later, asked her for OTC. She looked at me and solemnly told me, "I made myself a promise when I started stripping, I would not have sex for money". Yada yada yada, a month or two after that, she's lying naked in my bed with me (one of very few strippers I've had over my house), after some gentle but consistent reminders that "this is about me, not any other customers"... by the time she said yes, she seemed downright excited at the prospect of OTC, and rightly or wrongly, I believe the personal, "the exception proves the rule" nature of our discussion, plus the fact that I could separate myself from the rest of the customer pack by being highly trustworthy and fun, is why I scored that when no one else likely did (at least at that point of her career)

One last point. Any of you who have parented and have read any books on it, know about how important it is to set up "rules". Rules make things less personal with a child. If your child asks you if he can watch TV, and you say, "no, not until you clean your room", the child will associate that with you, personally, and get angry at YOU, and re-argue their case every single time. If you've already set up a rule, "no watching TV until your room is clean", it becomes far less personal -- the parent can say, "sorry, that's the rule, it's the rule's fault", which psychologically makes it easier for the parent to stay consistent rather than give in, and the child associates his lack of instant gratification more with the rule than the parent -- it's less personal. Children's behavior is much easier to shape this way.

I'd propose that this is EXACTLY the principle at play when a customer dicktucks and asks a stripper "do you see your customers OTC?". They're giving the stripper the ability to act like the parent and metaphorically say, "sorry, I don't, that's the rule", and for you as the child not to take it personally (why? because your feelings might get hurt?).

There are girls who will always say no, no matter what, it doesn't matter how you phrase it to them.
There are girls who will almost always say yes, it doesn't matter how you phrase it to them
But, IMO, There are an enormous number of girls who have a general rule about not seeing customers OTC, or being incredibly choosy about it, and for those girls, I believe "this is personally about me and you, not anyone else, and I'm worth being the exception that proves your rule" can get her thinking differently about you and nudge her over... if you really are worth being the exception that proves the rule

Agreed with the just ask. It's a stripclub, and if extra's are available inside the club, they're available for OTC. Only once have I ever had a dancer reply back to me with the "Who do you think I am ... I'm not a prostitute" line. Once out of dozens of times. And I didn't even ask about sex, just if she wanted to get together after her shift ended. I just laughed it off. When I started clubbing admittedly I was too shy to ask. Now, I always ask in VIP even if I'm not interested just to know if she would be. The more you ask, you also hone your closing skills.

Wisdom from Subraman....excellent point!

I always ask how much to fuck and when she says $300 I say good lord ! How about I jerk off and lick a nipple for $45.62

^ your nipple or her's Juice? I imagine you have no trouble reaching your own.

Juice deep fried his titties in four loko beer batter and pays me to jerk him off slow lol

What a retard

Her nipples lol...mine are nasty

Subraman wrote, "SJG, the benefit -- and it is enormous -- is that now she can tell me whether or not she'll have sex with me for money, which is exactly the topic I am inquiring about, and if she says "yes", will in fact lead me to having sex with her. boo-ya! "

I still say it is better to always treat women as civilians. As far as whether or not she will have sex with you, that can be determined just by talking to her, and keeping it civilian.

As to whether or not offering money might additionally entice her, I don't see any reason to go that way. She may well always expect to get paid, and I am not suggesting avoiding that. But I also know that women like sex, and if she likes me, she will deliver. I don't see any reason to further push the sex for money aspect.

Yes, she probably will have sex with me, and it coming out of a P4P venue, she will get paid. But still no reason whatsoever to pitch it to her as P4P.

SJG

I use the feel-it method - it's self explanatory

Feel it, meaning just let it happen with the girl?

Sounds great to me.

SJG

SJG: no worries, if that's working for you. For me, I can count on one hand the number of strippers I"ve had sex with for free ... close to 100% of the time, it's for-pay, and nothing irritates a for-pay girl faster than a customer deluding himself into thinking he can have sex with her for free. THAT is the reason to keep things above-board and clear.

I definitely disagree with the "treat her like a civilian". I think this is only true TO A POINT. I treat her like a civilian, in the sense that I treat her with respect and affection, I try to hold up my end of the conversation with funny or interesting stories, etc. But I do not have sex with civilians for money, I do not engage in sex talk 10 minutes after I"ve met them, I don't touch and feel civilians right away, I don't get drunk with them right away, etc. Treat her like a person, like she's someone's daughter (and probably someone's mother), yes. A stripper is in the sex industry, and it's foolish to pretend she's not, just like I treat my auto mechanic like a person but I do not beat around the bush about me wanting him to fix my car, and I'll pay him for it. It's silly and over-romantic to pretend otherwise. Treat everyone with respect, but your auto mechanic is an auto mechanic, your stripper is a stripper, your barista is a barista, absolutely no reason not to speak clearly with them about the activities involved in their trade.

Just my view -- it's yielded me far more high-quality OTCs with low volume girls than beating around the bush would, IMO

Yeah, what Subraman said. If 30 some years of dealing with strippers didn't teach me that, not the MILF and the ATF have both said that my simple respectfulness was the major reason they finally relented.

As my ATF put it once, "you were respectful when I said 'no', and you were even more respectful when I said 'yes'."

I never said anything about actually having sex with a girl who works in a strip club without paying her. And the same goes for AMPs. Though if you wanted that and were a bit patient about it, I don't think it would be that difficult. What experiences I have says that it is not. Girls have really opened up to me once they realized that I did not see them as P4P providers.

If you treat the girl like a civilian, you have a good chance of getting to the point of free sex. Not free sex in the P4P venue, but at some later time and elsewhere, if that is what you want.

As far as moving fast with them, consider private parties. In some situations civilians will be fast movin', fast as pros.

Approaching a girl in a P4P venue by asking to pay money for sex, probably will yield a green light. But the kind of sex she gives you will be pro sex, because you have made it clear that you see her as a pro.

But if you approach her as a civilian and don't talk about money or treat it like buying sex, until she asks for money, then in my opinion and experience, what you get is much much better because she sees that you don't see her as only a pro.

I still see zero reason for approaching her as anything other than a civilian, no matter how obvious it is that she is intending to engage in P4P.

And then there are ways to negotiate the money and give it to her that still don't make it strictly into P4P. No reason to ever reduce it to strictly P4P, in my opinion and experience.

And then no reason to ever use money to try and persuade her, if she is reluctant. No reason to ever mention anything about money until she does.

One neighborhood girl did sometimes turn tricks. I talked to her once and so she asked me, "Have you paid your rent yet?" This was her way of introducing the subject of money, as presumably she has to pay her own rent, and this is mostly why she turns tricks.

I did not proceed with her. But if I had there would have been lots of ways, without overtly making it like I was purchasing sex from her.

I don't see any reason to ever deviate from a strictly civilian approach, and what my experience tells me is that women really appreciate that.

SJG

Secrets of Hermes Trismegistus: Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcsyiGCZ…

Subra you realize trying to speak logically or have SJG see a different point is futile right?

ime: I have an insane amount of patience of sjg, I enjoy our little debates. This may technically classify me as a masochist :)

Women get money from men in all sorts of way, like for example marriage. Also GF's get gifts. No reason to rub a girl's nose in the fact that you see her only as P4P. And of course this influences the kind of sex she will engage in with you.

Subraman, you have your ways. You are straight up. Lots of other people aren't.

SJG

sjg: maybe the difference in outlook here is that I find the phrase "only as p4p" itself demeaning. You're looking at p4p as something inherently demeaning, and so for you any reference to it is demeaning. I don't look down on p4p girls, I am eternally grateful they picked the profession they did, and in fact, I almost feel the opposite -- it is demeaning and insulting to someone whose profession is p4p, to try to manipulate her into giving you sex for free. Just like it would be insulting to walk into a mechanic shop, and start shmoozing the mechanic, and then try to get him to fix your car for free. He'd throw you out, and rightfully so -- it's his job, it's how he feeds his family. He's chosen to be a mechanic, which is someone who fixes cars for money, and we should respect that and his profession.

To a point, of course ... if i can score free sex from a stripper, that's awesome. But the few times it's happened, it's been pretty organic, not me trying to protect her or over-romanticize her or look down on her job

No, I don't look at P4P as inherently demeaning. But I know that the girls usually do, even if they are accustomed to it.

And never have I talked about actually getting free sex.

Subrman posted earlier, "SJG, the benefit -- and it is enormous -- is that now she can tell me whether or not she'll have sex with me for money, which is exactly the topic I am inquiring about, and if she says "yes", will in fact lead me to having sex with her. boo-ya! "

Well, what you are actually doing is finding out whether or not she'll have sex with you for money, if you present it to her that way.

Okay, but is that really important to find out? You make it sound like a research project.

Isn't the objective just to get her to yes, rather than doing a sociology experiment?

And so if the objective is to get her to yes, then wouldn't it be better to use the approach which has the highest likely hood of achieving that?

Some girls don't do P4P. Some girls don't have any dealings with guys who ask for P4P. Some girls maybe accustomed to doing P4P, but they don't really put their best into it. For most girls what they want most is to be seen as still civilian, just like other women. And there are all sorts of ways of giving a girl money, which will make her happy, but not make her feel like she is P4P. You can show concern for her needs and respect how she is earning a living, but without treating her like she is your P4P.

SJG

-->"Well, what you are actually doing is finding out whether or not she'll have sex with you for money,"

Exactly! And then, once I know she's willing, we actually have sex for money. There's a flow here that has an ethereal beauty. I ask if she's willing, she says yes, I say "how about Thursday", she says yes, she shows up 90 minutes late without texting me, then we have sex. All is right in the world :)

-->"And so if the objective is to get her to yes, then wouldn't it be better to use the approach which has the highest likely hood of achieving that?"

Yes! And that approach is -- at least for me -- get to know her a bit so she feels like she can trust me and likes me (or at least doesn't dislike me so much that she won't consider it), pop the question, have sex. No other approach comes close to this... and the fact that I get to know her first means I'm usually a bit crazy for her by the time we actually have sex, which makes the sex even more often. I treat her with respect and kindness, do not treat her as if she is doing anything wrong, and that's all the empowerment she needs. Every woman is not some fragile little girl in need of protecting -- the girls realize what they're doing, don't need white knights to protect them in any way... the BEST way to respect them and empower them is to do things that imply they're doing something wrong -- like avoiding the subject as if one or the other of us should be ashamed

Anyway, as always, if your way works for you, that's great... but I do feel my way respect her more, doesn't try to white knight her or treat her like she's doing anythign wrong, and is far more empowering IMO. And for the girls who ARE in denial, a sugardaddy type model, which is closer to what you're saying, is perfectly reasonable

"the BEST way to respect them and empower them is to do things that imply they're doing something wrong"

Obviously, there's a "not" up there ... to NOT do things that imply they're doing something wrong

reading these posts makes me wonder who would win a troll off between @mikey and @juicebox69. @mikey has the advantage of having more aliases so i guess it will be him

but to answer the op question just use the just ask system. or use the rickieboy system because that works at least 35% of the time

"Do you suggest it inside the club or set up dinner or something outside club to discuss it?"
No you do not need to take her to dinner to discuss it, inside the club over a drink is fine.

"Are you direct and just ask?"
"What exactly do you say when you ask to still be respectful?"

I paint her a picture of how I see the date going, but let her know certain things are expected on the date, and ask how much she wants for her time.

"Ever ask thru a text?"

Asking through a text is fine. Although I would rather ask in person so I can gauge her reaction.

"What details are important to clarify. I am thinking price, location, all that is on the menu, how much time?"

Before agreeing on price I want to have an agreement on location, menu, and date activities if applicable. I avoid bringing up how much time I'm going to get.

Still, no reason to introduce discussion of money, or the idea that it is sex for money, until it comes from her. And then even when this happens, there are still lots of ways to soften it.

And lots of times with lots of girls, talk of sex for money is the show stopper. And I know that I get awesome treatment from lots of girls because I don't present myself as someone looking for sex for money, rather as just someone who is turned on by them and wants to fuck them, and goes along with their request for money.

SJG

Tijuana Real Street Prostitutes part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpfO_QSB…