Marriage Used As A Weapon?

I was married for a long time before getting divorced. After many years together, when the spark faded, we started taking each other for granted and the marriage eventually failed. I don't think she played any games or used marriage as a weapon against me though. The relationship just ran its course and we grew apart. The divorce was amicable and we both moved on. All relationships are different though and everybody's experiences are unique.

Thanks, SJG

My motto, if you want to show someone how much you love and trust them, buy them a gun and teach them how to use it. That way if they betray your trust they could potentially get it over with quicker.

?????

My wife would never have used a gun on me or herself. But she was always trying to provoke me into violence, so it seemed.

Not sure if I am following you.

SJG

I know what you mean SJG. I was raised in a religious household, and while I wasn't a firm believer the principal of marriage was taken seriously. My wife wasn't a raging bitch, but I do believe she took full advantage of my commitment and just let herself go by the way side, and put a lot of emotional burden on me to "make her happy".....echh...still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yes I've had my beliefs used against me, but I got the last laugh when I switched my beliefs up on her :)

I'm confused by who the real SJG is. Or are they all the same? Is this the gay one? Or are they both gay? Which one commits rape while their partner sleeps? Do they both drink gravy? I need answers.

My ex wife, because she used the marriage as a weapon, she destroyed everything.

But I am still reluctant to get emotionally involved with another young woman because I know it would be basically the same situation. I am still the same person, and so the girls who have a strong appeal for me are just a younger version of my ex.

SJG

In general, the person more willing for the marriage to end holds the power.

My wife would never have used a gun on me or herself. But she was always trying to provoke me into violence, so it seemed.

Not sure if I am following you.

-Most people say marriage is a token of love and trust, but divorce can be messy and leave lasting scars. I'm saying, don't get married, just buy her a gun, that way if she turns on you she can just do a quick headshot instead of taking half or more of everything.

Interesting

Stripper5, sounds like your divorce was even worse than mine.

Why give the bitch a gun? Wouldn't she get everything if she shot you? Lol.

It takes two to tango.

They learn quickly how to use it all against you. Sex, emotions, finances. But particularly brutal is when they use your child against you. They get what they want or bring all guns to bare.

^^^^^^^^^ Amen Brother!

And this is where I have a problem, my ex-wife in my opinion, using the difficulty of escaping marriage as her lever, attacked attacked attacked. My view was that yes there were difficulties, but we had to work together and solve them. And so, the future of the marriage thus depended upon the formation of a new partnership.

But my spouse would never go along with that. She expected me to solve the problems alone, and then wait to see whether or not she approved.

So, given that the problems were basically all created in the first place by her lack of approval, lack of understanding of situations, and lack of partnership, and preference for waging a war of emotional terrorism, I did not see her approach as advisable.

So what I did was keep reaching out, trying to hold out the olive branch, and trying to communicate with her. But it never happened. She never allowed partnership. But what she did do was create increasingly serious problems. Her infidelities were never sexual. She wanted to be RIGHT, so she would not do that. Her infidelities were in her idolatrous relationship with money, and in the sorts of scum she became involved with. Eventually I did have to act, invoking governmental authority to take strong actions of intervention and severely impact some of these people.

She still did not change though. It would not be until later when she was made subject to multiple court orders, and then still some years later that she seemed to start to understand how wrong she had been.

So I see young women now whom I know I would like. But I also know that it would go the same way. Periodic emotional upsets which can only be solved by making greater shows of commitment and compliance with normative standards. This would continue until again, my 14th Amendment right to equal citizenship had been relinquished, and she has got me and can engage in exactly the same sorts of tactics.

But the question then is, are the women bad, or is it the institution of marriage and our society which are bad? I say that it is the latter and not the former.

SJG

O.T.O. 101 youtube.com

Sorry, but you can't just lump all women into a "are they all good or are they all bad" question. That's ridiculous. I too had a crappy marriage that I am now out of and in the beginning I blamed her. But as time past I realized that society mandates marriage as the goal in life for women. They are nicely brainwashed, and to a degree we are too. Bottom line is that marriage is bad for everyone, and you can't draw a nice convient line in the sand and say it was all her fault. We don't get to hear her side if it.

"Bottom line is that marriage is bad for everyone"

See, the above is also my conclusion. But I know that if I start getting friendly with another woman, it will go the same direction. Either that or she will dump me in a big fanfare of self-righteousness.

So I say it is marriage and our society that are bad, not my ex-wife and all women.

But then to have a remedy, the best way is to set up a counter culture.

Thanks sclvr5005.

For those who might not have noticed, 'san_jose_gay' is an impersonation troll of known identity. So please read carefully.

SJG

I hope that someday raising a child in the context of a marriage will be prosecuted as a crime, just as it would be to keep a child locked in a closet or in the basement.

SJG

Marriage can be used as a weapon. But not all women do that - and many women act much nicer than they might want to act - due to the example it would set for the children.

If it's just a husband and a wife - and if the dissolution is a mutual decision - then the animosity should be minimal. The danger occurs when there is infidelity - and the divorce occurs shortly after the infidelity is discovered - as there will be fresh wounds.

I'm of the simple belief - that you shouldn't take a vengeful tact to a breakup. There is already enough pain - so don't make it worse for your ex. The financial mess is brutal - but it's crazy to fight over it - and make it feel even worse.

I left a lot when I got divorced - but I'm lucky to be able to do that and still be ok. I found a cool apartment - in walking distance to my ex's house - and we remain close.

Cashman1234, I am quite sure that there is much you are not perceiving, like how conformist pressures are exerted, and how the middle-class family depends upon the exploitation of children.

SJG

Marriage is not inherently bad. The idea of making a declaration of love to another person and having that reciprocated can't be a bad thing. A person that is willing to use the social stigma around divorce to force you to stay is a person with very little self esteem. They have a problem.

I myself am married and in a very similar situation to what you have described. My wife has a problem with honesty and she has been manipulative since the day I met her. She lies and manipulates me constantly. Since I know exactly what she's doing, I manipulate her and the situation to be able to do some of the things I want to do. We've created our own little system of the way things work in our world. It's exhausting and sickening and honestly, I think I'm done.

Would I ever get married again? No. Not because I think marriage is bad though. I'm just terrible at picking a good mate. I'm wiser now than I was in my early 20's, but I still worry that I would make the same bad choices that led me here the second time around. My wife and I are the problem, not marriage.

"The idea of making a declaration of love to another person and having that reciprocated can't be a bad thing."

But this is not what marriage is.

"A person that is willing to use the social stigma around divorce to force you to stay is a person with very little self esteem. They have a problem."

But such a person is only trying to use what means they find to be available to get what they feel entitled to. Very likely they are using exactly the same methods they employed to cause the marriage to happen in the first place.

Well some people might come to see it that way, marriage is not bad, I just picked a bad one. I don't see it this way. I was very careful to keep my side of the sidewalk clean, because I knew that I would have to live with how I had handled myself from then on.

Capitalism has created our form of marriage. It depends on it. I say that it is no good and we should be able to come up with better arrangements.

I look at young women who I believe things would work with. They are similar to my ex-wife. It would all go the same way.

I talk with married friends and see how things go. I don't say this too them, but I think about how rotten it clearly is.

Thanks DeviantTurtle for the post.

SJG

What it really seems like to me is just that my ex-crossed a serious line, she used the marriage in such a negative way, and she did so much harm, that the penalty is that she is cut out of my life.

But I also know that she did do so much harm because she did not understand, was dissociated from her own feelings, and because marriage is just an evil institution.

SJG

I have said it once and I'll say it again: Marriage is slowly becoming more and more obsolete in our "instant gratification" society. Besides, that happily forever after bullshit only exist in movies and fairy tales.

I understand how women are pressured. My ex and I were happy, before we were married.

SJG

You gotta consider, women are expected to be married. I mean when you see a young hottie, you want her. But when you see one who is beyond that age, her status is lower if she is not married.

So if we want to change the rules, we need to figure out how to address this, provide a comprehensive alternative.

SJG

A big factor with marriage is just that it gets to your own personal integrity and reputation. I mean if you marry someone, then from then on you are expected to make it work.

And so if it fails, that always reflects back on you. You might try to say that she is bad, but that still reflects back on you, as you married her instead of another.

For myself, I knew marriage was a very risky proposition. But I still thought it worth the risk because I thought I could make good happen. And I also felt it wrong to be chicken.

I think there are just conformist social forces which come into play and ways in which pressure is applied. Some of her closest friends and her younger bother's wife were just trouble. And then rather then telling these people to fuck off, as I believe most men would have, she started lying to them. And of course this deception only made stuff worse, as it got further and further from reality.

I believed that I could make good things happen with her, via partnership instead of trying to fulfill social expectations. But it did not happen.

And then today this is still a serious problem for me. You know that I don't go along with dividing women into two categories. And I like non-conformist. So the girls in strip clubs, AMPs, and Viet Coffee shops are very attractive to me.

But with marital experience behind me, I can still see that these women are not that much different from my ex-wife. And it never was my intent just trade her on a newer model. That's not right in my book.

But good did not happen from the marriage, and it still hasn't.

And then there are those who try to put it all on their children. That is horrible! Making the child responsible for marital hell!

So there is still much wrong with the ways our society is set up.

SJG

King Crimson - Live From The '70s youtube.com

Face it, SJG Guy, we're hearing one side of the story- yours. Bros before Hos and all that, but we keep hearing the 'she let go and I had to do all the work' martyrdom theme, and I for one know just how sanctimonious your posts can be about people who make other lifestyle choices (PARTICULARLY those who choose to DRINK in a strip bar for crying out loud!!!) So yeah- one woman pisses you off and you have your cake but complain how bitter the dish is to everyone who will listen and preach misogyny to the choir. And then bash those who just MIGHT be capable of being in a relatively normal relationship (with or without the outside fun or the diversion of naked girls at a club). Dude, I've agreed with you on a few thing but your life in general- if you are miserable it is not the world that is responsible for it or the world's responsibility to clean up the trash . Make your own happiness and decide what works if marriage isn't it- but don't cry the victimization speech and expect the world to be equally as miserable or whacked out as you. Your ex probably was a bitch, but happiness is an inside job and if you keep dwelling on it, she wins!

(And SJ Gay- the whole inner troll thing may have been funny about.... twice but really, you need a new shtick)

Stream of consciousness and probably needed to be edited for clarity but having said my piece I'm just going to drop it- and not buy the rest of the whole 'regular guy is the victim' spiel.

HGR, Fuck Off

SJG

^^^ Ah hah hah! Lmfao!!

San Jose Guy gets mad at another poster. Did you get put on ignore too, Huge Erection? Nice job.

SJGay is the real and honest version of SJGuy trying to come out of the closet. All of TUSCL will come quite aware of the troll SJGuy and demonize him back to the underground Mexican hat dancing bar he so loves.

SJG, she might have just been a psychopath who played you. Normal people have empathy and would experience the other's pain and would avoid causing it just because they could:

youtube.com

Or maybe she just had more sack than he does. I'm starting to think that the troll doppelganger is onto something.

For any relationship with a woman to work, one has to start out with the understanding that most women are inherently irrational insofar as their ability to convince themselves that whatever they are saying or doing is right if it satisfies some emotional need. Even under the best of conditions, maintaining a marriage is difficult and requires flexibility as their "needs" seem to randomly shift over time and many women nowadays don't have the discipline or emotional wherewithal to prioritize their relationship commitments over these ever-shifting "needs.".

it is also important to understand that acting like a weak sissy will almost always lead to a divorce as they will inevitably lose respect for you, regardless of whether they seemed to encourage and reward your sissy-like behavior in the first place. I cannot remember a single emotional wimp who ever stayed married for a long time.

SJG, it sounds like your high degree of risk aversion and your other emotional issues essentially guaranteed the outcome you achieved - no offense dude. Your fear of risk taking made you rigid and inflexible to her "needs", but worse, in a weak, whiny and victim-like way that she no doubt came to despise. Know thyself. Marriage is not for everybody. There is nothing wrong with just enjoying life in a way suited to your strengths and weaknesses because, at this point, you're unlikely to change anyway.

^ You can take the ones who only respond to being overpowered in every interaction. I get the point of having self-respect, confidence and leadership, but when it gets to the point of having to constantly do battle, no thanks. Sometimes it can be great to just be able to enjoy someone's company.

I have read some of SJG's postings, and he seems to get the idea of masculine power/energy.

Mr. Dugan, you are entirely off base and entirely misconstruing me and what I have described. So I am not going to respond.

ppwh, you might be hearing me. I actually had to be extremely firm and brave to endure. It did at times come to feel like being in some kind of a concentration camp. She did not adhere to the basic ground rules of human relationships, that of do no harm. She wanted to induce unbearable fear and terror. And so, while I was trying to make a professional career go, she was there only seeking to destroy, and accepting no responsibility for the consequences of this. So with her only wanting to do harm, and me trying to do good and make things work and make there be good results so that the relationship could succeed, I was always on the defensive and ended up having to be hypervigalant.

Of course it was nothing like this before marriage co-habitation. It would not have been possible for her. This is why I am saying that she used the marriage itself as a weapon.

My ex had impressed me in the years before we were married as she indeed did seem like someone I could communicate with and could partnership with.

She had actually avoided marriage 'till an uncommon age for women. I had been going out with her for quite a few years. So I feel that in a way she was resisting social codes because there was stuff she did not want to deal with.

And then once we were married it was like a switch in her flipped. She changed to being completely externally directed and completely oppositional. Marriage brought with it a mountain of cultural baggage which she had managed to avoid by presenting herself as child like. But this does not mean that she had processed this baggage. She actually ended up dumping it onto me.

She comes across as extremely nice, to outsiders. But inside the home and in a primary relationship, she is a psychopath.

She always has a home with her older sister. But for most other people she is a problem.

She just has all sorts of her own stuff which she has never really even attempted to deal with.

Of course, as it has turned out, it is my honor which is trashed. It is my life which shows the scars of that horrid time. What I have to show for it is that I did not act out, I did not allow myself to be provoked. I had to learn this, and it was not easy.

And as some experienced observers pointed out, she was trying to provoke me, because that would be how she could get power, by pulling me down to her level, by seeing me getting into severe trouble. I had to learn how not to let this happen.

SJG

Gnosis - Gnostics Cathars, the True Christians | Documentary
youtube.com

people.opposingviews.com

Sex - The Secret Gate to Eden (Gnostic Teachings) youtube.com

^^^^ Whoa there SJGuy! It looks like you have another troll to place on ignore named Rick Dugan, simply because he doesn't agree with your pagan like persona you are unsuccessfully trying to portray. It's OK, because your true inner self, SJGay, got out in front of your trollish self SJGuy and set everything straight (or in this case "gay"). When are you going to give up the cloak and only reveal who you are without fear of reprisal? The SJGay must be listened to for truth to be acknowledged. Praise thee SJGay!

SJG, Sorry to hear that, man. Times like that have a way of training our intuition, though. It's probably better to just leave alone the entire topic of marriage in trying to analyze what went wrong. You'll probably never come to the point where you'll be able to list out the reasons. If the time does come where you meet someone worthy, I'm guessing the things that were missing in that failed relationship will become clear once they are present.

ppwh, thanks for being concerned.

I engage with young women today, and I see that if I got involved with them that they'd probably end up the same way.

I would never want to cohabitate with a woman again. It means making yourself open to emotional terrorism. It means your home is occupied, and so you are being held hostage.

I'm working to build something now which will be more communal. I never have supported marriage or the middle-class family.

SJG

My ex wife was totally unwilling to let partnership ensue and shared goals and values develop.

Before we were married we were not cohabitating. I had cohabitated with a girl before and it was not good. So this time I avoided that.

So before marriage, we each just lived. She could not cause big problems because she knew that could destroy the relationship.

But on the other hand, as I see now, it was not easy for her to support herself, pay the high local rents and pay automobile costs. But she did it, I guess because she felt she had to to impress me.

But I am not impressed by such things.

She was opposed to the concept of "professional career". She only understood "job".

Actually most women seem to be like this.

Before we were married, she did not have the power she would have needed to be able to cause big problems. Once married though, things were completely different.

What would have made things work was partnership, becoming a team. But she opposed this completely. So I did have to be very strong, often very hard, while at the same time being fair.

SJG

Richard Smoley - Inner Christianity: Part I youtube.com

My ex, she was someone who had ambivalence about marriage. She avoided it longer than most women do.

For most of those she knew, the experience was negative.

During the years of our marriage, there were two other marriages amongst her girlfriends. One was a school friend the same age. Both marriages disintegrated. One took years, another took just about 4 weeks. But in both cases false information was being spread, in that the women were saying things to my wife, trying to make the situation look better than it was. I don' know if this was really bragging so much as just trying to hide what would be shame and embarrassment. In both cases the key lies all involved how money was being handled, making it look like he wife getting ditched was getting better treatment than she actually was.

It all suggested to me that women tend to be like this all the time, telling lies about their married life, and especially about the money, making it look as tough it is better than it really is.

And then, I feel that women do not understand the issues which are important in men's lives.

I feel that mothers can be very toxic in the lives of their sons, unless they pull back. With their fathers they tend to worship uncritically. And with the lovers and husbands there can be severe problems.

I also note that in some native American societies there are prohibitions on communications from mother to son, beyond the boy's age of perhaps 5yo, and continuing until he has completed his initiation into adulthood.

When you have a society like that, men and women will be very different, and by the time a boy has completed his initiation into adulthood, he will be fully adapted to seeing women as 'other', and primarily as sex partners.

SJG

I have to wonder if the dating pool in San Jose has skewed your view of women. In the time I spent in that area, it felt like it was a 3:1 male:female ratio everywhere I went. Being the center of the IT industry seems like it would draw a much higher than normal number of on-the-spectrum low-empathy types, too. I can totally see needing a business plan and a pre-nup with options vesting over a 15 year period being necessary there.

I don't find that to be representative at all of women in general, though.

I don't think marriage is a weapon. But well-meaning individuals, my late mother is one example, who through a combination of (1) feminism and (2) "happy hippy thought processes," have devised thinking that (1) they are (incorrectly) uniquely wiser than their parents, (2) can be their child's friend instead of a parent, (3) can teach, mold, instruct, instill ethics/morals/values (4) without ever being as harsh as their parents were at times. That, along with, as Eminem wrote (paraphrased): where are all the fathers? We're a generation of men raised by (single) women.

Some of these hippy women, trying to correct the mistakes they saw in flawed, failed men, took it upon themselves to correct the problem, and in the women's mind, raise the perfected version. Or at least the vision they thought they wanted. Except it was a beta male. I've been reprogramming myself since I was 15. I think I'm just about done though.

Also, with feminism, the core tenets are fine. It's nice that women have choices now. The problems are when the choices become automatic (e.g., a feminist woman must choose a career and can't be a SAHM. Why? Why can't a feminist choose to me a SAHM?). Or when feminism gets perverted into misandry and the women start to belittle and hate men. It's one thing to promote equality between the sexes. It's quite another thing to put down and emasculate men and raise women to think they are superior to men.

Or yeah, tl:dr - sack up and be a leader. More old testament Hebrew marriage.

The Bible's first relationship example was the creation story:

God creates woman from man.
If the man is worthy, she will be allied with him.
If the man is unworthy, she will be against him.
God has one rule for the two of them -- don't eat the damn forbidden apple from the tree of knowledge. So what happens? Woman is tempted to eat the apple and asks Adam. Adam knows he's not (nor is she) allowed to eat the apple. He knows this. He was told this.

What does he do? He lets them eat the apple. (I forget who actually eat the apple but that's not important). God appears. God's pissed. He's got one fucking rule. And these two sad sacks .. well .. He asks the two about the apple. Does Adam say: you know God, I know about the apple rule, and in a moment of weakness I forgot, she was so insanely beautiful, and I was distracted by her tits, and well, it's my fault, I accept my punishment? No. That's not what happened. Instead, Adam says: it was her idea! She made me do it! Pointing blame to Eve. Reading this, I could barely believe what I was reading. I mean, what the fuck just happened here??!? Rather than sack up, own up to what happened, that fucking beta male threw Eve under the bus. I still cannot believe it.

Does God say, you know what Adam, she's a manipulative controlling bitch and you're not at fault. It was all her. Does God do that? No. God holds Adam at fault for failing to intervene, failing to lead, failing to set the example, failing to do what he should have known was right even though it meant taking the hard road. And the two are thrown out of Paradise. Adam gave in when he knew it was wrong, and God punished him harshly and severely.

I think there are other examples of the Hebrew guide for marriage but the Adam story always sticks in my mind. Sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. Otherwise you're thrown from paradise and generally have a really bad day from there on out.

Marriage -- Old Testament style.

ppwh,

Local dating pool does not influence me at all, because I am too cagey to be manipulated. It is true that housing costs are extremely high, and that most people speak the language of upwards social mobility and live extremely fatalistic lives. And invariably this does poison relationships and marriages. But my own views have developed in conjunction with larger scale plans, beyond just enduring in a bizarre world. I am involved in local politics and fighting against neo-liberalism every day. So I am not a passive target for the sorts of things you speak of. There are lots and lots of available women. But this probably is slanted towards racial minorities. And there is also a huge gap between those who work in the tech sector and those whites who work in the service sector. But the toxin comes from the self-improvement ideology. I don't go along with this, as it is nonsense.

I went to college with lots and lots of women. But in the work place they are absent. Where are they? Some say I am not seeing them because they are in the helping professions. I don't think this really accounts for them. I think most of them are stay at home house wives, or they are in dabbling occupations.

There is a great deal of class stratification, and the self-improvement ideology is just a way of using lies to perpetuate this.

But my own plans deal with things much deeper. People reach a certain age, and they are no longer effected by social pressures in the ways that young adults are. They start to fight back. But you are right if you mean that the place is toxic. One has to learn to be a guerrilla.

Thanks for your concern.

Dominic77,

Feminism has multiple facets, but on the whole I am convinced that it is good.

But when it turns into mindless conformity, this changes. It becomes dual income sized mortgage payments, and nothing else.

Marriage becomes a weapon when it is used that way.

People need a higher level of consciousness. As Sartre and de Beauvoir say, "The Bourgeoisies lives in Bad Faith." They don't admit that they have choices. And of course marriage and the exploitation of children are the bleakest examples of this.

SJG

The Egyptian Origins of Christianity & Gnosticism youtube.com

I will add this. I did not understand how devious and controlling women can be. This was not because of feminism effecting me. It was simply because I had to be blind to my mother, and to her evils in trying to survive in a horrid marriage.

No one should ever have to go thru the nightmare life she has had to. But, she is also pure venom, and when I was younger I still believed that she was largely right. She isn't. She is evil.

So I have had to face this and it has taken decades.

SJG

I guess this is why young women are advised to look at the relationship a man has with his mother.

I'm not suggesting that the women you are currently coming in contact with are the source of the problem, rather the ones that you already have been with, obviously starting with your mother. It sounds like you're working on healing, but in the process, I think you are making some false accusations directed at women in general.

I have been there myself, I spent a few years after a bad relationship ended being bitter, listening to NiN constantly and playing the field. Finally, when the bitterness had gotten out, I realized that I was ignoring the goodness in normal women, meaning I was cutting myself off from it and only able to relate to them physically.

At a certain point, you have to learn how to be vulnerable to the right people or stay locked out of this due to previous bad relationships.

Obviously, the materialism thing is a major bummer. It reminds me of living in different kinds of apartment complexes. There were the midmarket ones, populated by people starting out where cute girls were friendly at the whirlpool and people shared vodka, then there were the upscale ones where people were just judging each other based on status. It sounds like you are trapped in the second world, which is something I found to be rather soul-crushing.

Women are ruthless. Or if not that, they are way too timid and will ultimately prove neurotic.

To Be Continued

SJG

I do not agree with you at all. Women are available, and plentiful. But where the problem comes in is once you have a "relationship", then each of you is the target for endless societal messages and norms. That is the problem.

I'm not making any false accusations against anyone.

SJG

And the last thing I would ever want is any "healing".

SJG

I would not want to be involved with one like my ex-wife again. For one thing, she just wasn't sexualized enough. Sex was not that important to her. You could say that she didn't understand it, or her understanding did not go far enough.

When I first met her, I was about in the same place as she was. But as I saw that she was promoting a negative and very limited view, I sought to learn more in order to protect myself. I did.

So today, I encounter young women who strike me as very similar to my ex, and they are highly available to me. But I do steer clear of them.

SJG

paulijungunusmundus.eu

Sex, Drugs and Gnosis Roll in the Bible youtube.com

Yep, establishing standards is part of healing. Eventually you realize that you're dating women who are nothing like your ex, yet are judging them by her actions.

ppwh, save it. Don't waste you keystrokes on me. I responded to you before, but your trying to lay this healing idea, or this unfairly judging idea, on me is completely uncalled for.

SJG

Ok, fair enough. I thought you had opened the discussion looking for ideas and perspectives, including ones you might not agree with.

Personal matters, must never be considered so open.

Thanks SJG

There were things I wanted to accomplish in life. There still are. My wife paid lip service to such things, otherwise I would not have known her. But when it also involved her and her life, and meant standing up to outside social pressure and malicious people, that was different.

SJG

We have a few couple members. One of the Mrs told me, "Sometimes we want to be pursued."

Well, when things deteriorate beyond a point, that becomes impossible. My ex wife was never willing to let things work. She insisted on practicing emotional terrorism. So she had me cornered and with a gun to my head. Pursuing her was impossible. All I wanted was to be able to survive.

Why was she like this? It always seemed that she was just afraid of getting hurt. Rather than taking the chance, allowing herself to be hurt, she would just attack, attack, attack. It was all preemptive.

This is important because I can't pursue other women until I understand this because the whole episode strikes at my own integrity. I failed. I tried, and I failed. It turned into a death trap. But why was I so vulnerable to this? Why did I make such a horrible selection?

SJG

Hugh Urban csul.iii.com

If a woman just isn't willing to let things work, then there is just no way. You need an attorney, not a marriage councilor, and attorney.

I was not ready to be in this sort of a situation.

SJG

I guess it is just like it would be with business partners. You know someone, you work with them, then you decide to go into business together. But for some reason the other person changes completely. Now that the cost of exiting the relationship is much higher, and now that they feel subjected to some sorts of outside pressures, they change. Now they are committed to using rage to get their way.

So you can't respond with violence. If you respond with emotional histrionics like they use, you are just making it worse. If you start placating them, then you are giving in to terrorism. You are doing things which are going to make life unworkable.

So then what you have to do is just endure it, while you hold out the olive branch, and while you try to reason with the other party. But this entails an impasse developing. While you are trying to establish peace, partnership is not there. Long term there will be serious problems unless partnership is quickly established.

I was unable to do this. I held out very long, but peace and partnership never resulted.

Oh well. I guess negotiating intimate relationships, along with career choices, is part of finding our place in the world. That place is not always an already given.

SJG

Murphy Bill post-gazette.com

Kibbutz Videos youtube.com

How Israel Lost amazon.com

She was using wifely styles of manipulation and control long before we were married. I just didn't understand what it was. Each time she got upset, I figured that I had screwed up and so I deserved it.

It was only years later that I learned how to really control my temper and not contribute to such upsets.

But she was using these upsets, usually cause by exaggerating something minor, to force the relationship along.

Interesting, I am convinced that by herself she was not really that marriage oriented. She didn't really need to get married. She had lived without it just fine.

So this was both good and bad. I mean, it has always seemed to me that women make most of the compromises necessary to make marriage work. The often don't realize how irrational and unworkable they make situations. They have to learn and learn fast.

Okay, but we were able to know each other because this one was not that attached to normative things and to keeping up appearances.

I feel that other people were really pulling her strings and pushing her buttons, these friends of hers. They were horrible. This is how I see it. These friends create pressure, and they dump their own drama, without regard for the effects.

And then, as she was not really that marriage oriented, she was not willing to gracefully make too many compromises, and she remained quite unrealistic for many years.

She was capable of learning, but it was always too little and way too late. Like she would finally understand how she was making things unworkable, but 10 years after the fact, and after there had been consequences of her complete unworkability.

So how the nightmare unfolded, I was there trying to keep an intense and extremely demanding career going, and in a very competitive field. I did work myself up to a world class level of expertise. I had not special credentials which entitled me to this. I had to fight political battles everyday. And so what I had built was brittle. Okay, but when I came home I had to face a nightmare. I had to face someone who used rage to wage a war of emotional terrorism.

I had forgotten how to pray. I learned again, because there I was each night, lying in bed next to someone who was in a state of pure psychotic rage. I knew I could never strike her or otherwise try to defeat her. I could do nothing, not unless I was willing to pull the pin out of a hand grenade and try to terminate the marriage, or just get away from her. So I did have to turn to prayer as a way to stay sane.

SJG

TJ mirdig.files.wordpress.com

The Egyptian Mystery Origins of Islam, Judaism & Christianity youtube.com

How God Became God youtube.com

Jersey Girl youtube.com

I always knew that marriage was risky. It basically comes down to whether you have a partner, or an enemy. If she is a partner, then you and she can each do more than you could have alone. But if an enemy, then she exposes you to outside social standards and expectations, and so your entire life become about Keeping Up With The Jones. And it is not just about money, it is totally encompassing.

But I don't blame my ex. It is just the way the world is set up. She was getting it continually from all quarters.

SJG

I think it has to do with you being a weak beta male.

Of course an issue then is, what line did my ex cross which makes future dealing with her impossible. I am not an overly unforgiving man.

She used the marriage as a weapon, and this is a betrayal of trust, it was an attempt on my life.

But I accept that she is not evil, rather it is marriage and our society which are evil.

So could she and I be friends? Possibly.

Could we become lovers? I see this as unlikely, as she is still really pig headed.

But what about other young women, who invariably are somewhat like her?

Well, I won't be acting alone. I'm building an organization, a counter cultural movement. This is what will make the difference.

SJG

Where do we find this organization? Is it available to participate in right now?

I'm happily married with 5 kids under their teenage years, but God knows I need a break every now and then. What rules will your organization have, and can middle aged white men with kids like me join, if I find it of any value? Where are u in the process of building this organization?

I live in San Jose California, and so everything I am doing starts here. But it's eventual expanse will include most of the United States, much of Mexico, and the border area of Canada, as well as areas of Europe and North Africa, and a few spots in Asia and Australia.

Membership is by invitation only and that is only after a careful screening. The total membership would never be more than a miniscule portion of the population. One of our objectives is the destruction of the middle-class family.

SJG

I like listening to this, where as I do not care for most of Ringo Starr's other post beetles music. And I like this version where Ringo sings lead better than versions where George Harrison sings lead. youtube.com But I see now there are reasons for this. This is living room music, because your living room is small and carpeted, so there is very little natural echo. This recording with the reverb would not sound good played in larger venue with natural echo.

Also, this was made by having some very talented people add tracks, and then through the work of a very talented mix down engineer. It would be quite difficult to recreate this live.

Thelemapedia is the original encyclopedia of Thelema and Magick focusing on the works and philosophy of Aleister Crowley thelemapedia.org

Why have a mission of destroying the middle class SJG? How does a society thrive without the middle class, becaus e who will be incentivized to do any work?

That makes no sense to me. If there was no middle class then. Boost would come to my comedy shows or attend strip clubs. The world as we know it would end, would you agree? Yes.

We need a strong middle class to pay for those free programs our children and the poor attend. Who would take care of the wives and children? That's just sad:-(

^^^ "Who would attend to my comedy shows or attend any strip clubs?"

I have really fat fingers (lol).....

The middle-class family only ever came into existence because it was allowed to exploit and abuse children. It turned children into private property.

And Capitalism works by overcoding. This is explained in Deleuze and Guattari's Anti-Oedipus.

en.wikipedia.org

Capitalism scrambles the social codes, and then replaces these with its own overcodings. As I see it, the Work Ethic and the Self-Reliance Ethic are prime examples of this. They are based on the fallacy that people are inherently lazy.

Everyone wants to do well, and everyone wants the respect and admiration to be had from developing their abilities and applying them.

And as far as people who need to have things incentivized, they have a problem. If that is how they are going to see things, we won't even waste time talking with them.

Our organization will be strong.

The middle-class exploits children, uses them to provide identity for the adults, and to provide scapegoats for ritual humiliation.

Everyone involved will have duties and responsibilities. We will need the talents of all of our people. We aren't like the middle-class family, creating scapegoats.

As far as strip clubs, they are expensive. Within our group, you could say that you are always within a couple hundred feet of something like a strip club, a free one.

SJG

Well San Jose Guy, I have 5 children and if you have had any children you'd know that it is they who exploit me as a parent. Watch my show on TV Land every Sunday night and you will see for yourself how true this is. The kids are constantly negotiating with their parents. It's like they can never take "no" for an answer. Hell, I can't even eat the yogurt sticks I bought with my own money without my wife and kids telling me to "Stop eating all of our yogurt sticks!" Your yogurt sticks?? "With whose money did you buy those yogurt sticks with?", I ask my family and they just go about their own way.

I honestly think you've got the tables turned around SJG, it's the middle class parents that are being exploited by children these days. Back in my day when I grew up, we ate what was given to us and if we didn't like it we went hungry. I think you got things all backwards as children are the least exploited groups of all in today's middle class families.

Exactly how are you going to incentivize the people in your new organization? Will you pay them in lap dances or free sex? That is nice, but after you wjaculate and are hungry, what are you going to eat? If you say pussy, then that's funny but there isn't much nutritional value in eating pussy.

Jim, is this you? tvland.com en.wikipedia.org imdb.com

I'm going to try and watch some of your material.

As far as the organization I am building, most of the people will be employed outside, so things will be done as they already are. We will be expecting people to pay dues, the men that is. The dues will be tax deductible, and they will pay for our club houses and a shuttle van fleet to connect them. My own salary will be $1 per year.

Though most people will have outside careers, we will be the ones who help them build these careers, and we will gain a controlling influence in many fields and corporations. So those who work outside will be enjoying large salaries, much larger than they likely would have otherwise had, more than offsetting the membership dues. And then also our organization will simplify people's lives. The money they don't spend because they are busy with us will also more than offset the membership dues they pay us.

Within our organization sex is always free and in gross surplus. And our people will enjoy a level of financial security which very few other people on the entire planet have ever known.

And as far as how to "incentivize people", we are looking for the people who don't need something to incentivize them. I can say with certainty that I have never hired anybody, nor would I ever want to, if they were not already self incentivized. Otherwise they bring nothing to the table. They would just be a problem. So any people I've hired have been carefully screened until I am confident that I understand how they think. Otherwise I'd just be brining in a problem.

I should not say much more though, as this organization is just in its infancy and it will never be open to public applications, invitation only. Like I say, it will never be more than just a very small segment of the population.

My inspiration for this is the simple insight that Knowledge, Spirituality, and Sex, do not have any intrinsic cost to them. They exist in gross surplus abundance. But nevertheless, we have set things up so that they appear to have huge costs, and people do in fact end up working their entire lives trying to get money to obtain these things.

The Middle Class invented childhood. This is the insight of Philippe Aries. en.wikipedia.org

And then the Baby Boom Generation certainly has set up a child centric world like never has been known before. But this is exactly where the exploitation lies, children are objectified and used, in order to give identity to the adults.

And now I see that we have at least one person who earns a living out of making people laugh about this. That is still child exploitation.

Here, Yale's John Merriman talks about the rise of the Middle-Class, and how it is more a state of mind, or an identification, than being of any particular income range. youtube.com

Though Merriman probably does not want to take this as far as I am, he does show how the Middle-Class created a child centric world.

And then specifically about the middle-class family, this book is often referenced and paper copies are in libraries everywhere. It is extremely good, and now it is full text online.

humanities.uci.edu

It all started, what is known as Liberal Pedagogy, with Jean-Jacques Rousseau and his Emile, 1762.

Much of this was exposed in the books of the late Alice Miller. This one is full text online.

nospank.net

Is There a Harmless Pedagogy? GENTLE VIOLENCE PEDAGOGY FILLS THE NEEDS OF PARENTS, NOT OF CHILDREN

and then here: nospank.net

" My antipedagogic position is not directed against a specidic type of pedagogical ideology but against all pedagogical ideology per se, even if it is of an anti-authoritarian nature. This attitude is based on insights that I shall describe shortly. For now, I should simply like to point out that my position has nothing in common with a Rousseauistic optimism about human "nature."

First of all, I do not see a child as growing up in some abstract "state of nature" but in the concrete surroundings of care givers whose unconscious exerts a substantial influence on the child's development.

Second, Rousseau's pedagogy is profoundly manipulative. This does not always seem to be recognized by educators, but it has been convincingly demonstrated and documented by Braunmühl. One of his numerous examples is the following passage from Emile (Book II):

" Take an oppposite route with your pupil; always let him think he is the master, but always be it yourself. There is no more perfect form of subjection than the one that preserves the appearance of freedom; thus does the will itself become captive. The poor child, who knows nothing, can do nothing, and has no experience--is he not at your mercy? Are you not in control of everything in his environment that relates to him? Can you not control his impressions as you please? His tasks, his games, his pleasure, his troubles--is all this not in your hands without his knowing it? Doubtlessly, he may do as he wishes, but he may wish only what you want him to; he may not take a single step that you have not anticipated, he may not open his mouth without your knowing what he is going to say. "

I am convinced of the harmful effects of training for the following reason: all advice that pertains to raising children betrays more or less clearly the numerous, variously clothed needs of the adult . Fulfillment of these needs not only discourages the child's development but actually prevents it. This also hold true when the adult is honestly convinced of acting in the child's best interests.

Among the adult's true motives we find:

1. The unconscious need to pass on to others the humiliation one has undergone oneself

2. The need to find an outlet for repressed affect

3. The need to possess and have at one's disposal a vital object to manipulate

4. Self-defense: i.e., the need to idealize one's childhood and one's parents by dogmatically applying the parents' pedagogical principles to one's own children

5. Fear of freedom

6. Fear of the reappearance of what one has repressed, which one reencounters in one's child and must try to stamp out, having killed it in oneself earlier

7. Revenge for the pain one has suffered

"

So what Rousseau says is, "always let him think he is the master, but always be it yourself". What Alice Miller is saying is that this is manipulation, and that doing it this way serves the needs of the parent, not the child, but the parent likes to believe that it serves the child.

What this all comes down to is what Sartre and de Beauvoir said about the middle-class, it lives in Bad Faith. By this they mean that the middle-class does not take responsibility for the fact that is has to make choices, or that it even has choices, and that it is not living up to it's own values.

And my own observation is that when there is parent v child conflict, it is because the parent is living in Bad Faith, not taking responsibility for their own choices, or lack there of, and is using the child.

tameri.com " Bad Faith - A lie, especially to the self. Self-deception, the paradox of lying to the self, usually in an attempt to escape the responsibility of being an individual. The extreme example cited by existentialists is, “I was only following orders.” Any denial of free will is an example of bad faith. Sartre believed all moments of Bad Faith (Mauvaise Foi) were self-evident, contradicting many psychologists. "

SJG

CONCERT for GEORGE....Royal Albert Hall, 2002, If I Needed Someone youtu.be

^^^^ Yes SJG, that's my show! Glad you find it and feel free to critique as you wish. Basically the shows are comedic parodies of my life of a comedian in Manhattan trying to raise my family with my wife in a cramped apartment. Last week's episode was a real life situation where I tried to help a fellow comedian out who was down on his luck, and it backfires on me when he makes me look like an asshole. It's titled "No good deed" or something like that.

Anyhow I understand if the material doesn't fit your humor. It's a lot about family and what other adults think about my lifestyle as a comedian and father of 5. My wife's best friend is my arch enemy. He is openly gay, but surprisingly used to date me wife briefly before we met. If you don't like the premise of the show that's fine, I understand, but please keep me posted about the advancements of your organization! A surplus of sex sounds heavenly for me. I hope you don't charge too much in dues. May I suggest quarterly payments, in case guys don't want to commit too far ahead, because some guys still don't want to leave out hope of finding their one special girl that hope to marry? ;-)

The groups is political. And sex in surplus is just the way life is, like amongst bonobos. Dues will be moderate, and people actually come out way ahead via:

1. Career building assistance, yielding much higher income.
2. Life simplification and cost of living reductions greatly exceeding our dues.
3. Dues being tax deductible.

People don't get to a rank where they would play a role in the governance until they have been in for many years and then reached a minimum age of 50 for men and 40 for women. And everyone is always involved in their own program of supervised independent study, because education needs to be lifelong.

Comedy can cut many directions. I'll keep an open mind when I look at some of your stuff.

SJG

Rosicruianism, Vesica Institute, Asheville North Carolina youtube.com

My ex-wife was not sexualized enough, and my own sexual tastes, going back to when I first met her, were not developed enough. She was not accustomed to the idea of dressing for the bedroom, and that never did sit well with her. For her, that was too deliberate, and playing too active a role, too slutty.

And for me, I came to see that I really expected that. That is one of the ways of taking sex out of the mundane realm, and into the ritualized realm.

She had no experience in just resolving differences and keeping fights fair and constructive.

I always saw her as having limitations, as also do I and everybody, but I felt that she was worth the risk, and that good would result.

The real issue was just partnership, versus her approach being manipulation, control, and using anger to pressure. That does not work and cannot work, and it becomes a death trap.

Marriage tends to make both parties subject to outside normative standards. And she had some friends who were problematic and she would not cut them off.

What solves this is partnership, but it is still a huge risk and the benefits may not be worth the risks and costs.

SJG

Viet Coffee

i.dtinews.vn

hyphenmagazine.com

always making tea refiles, and in stripper shoes images.onset.freedom.com

My ex-wife, she really is a psychopath. People outside always said she was so so nice. And she did come across that way. Like I remember what was said by the receptionist at our dentist's office.

But she has serious issues of her own that she is not dealing with. She doesn't show hurt, she covers it over with rage, and with self-righteousness, and with malice and indignation. I saw this during our years of marriage, it was continual. But now post marriage, it is still there in some communications from her. She really was destructive, and if given one iota of chance she still would be. Her communications make this clear.

I was not well enough protected to recognize such a person and prevent harm, going in.

And also, I think marriage is an idiotic arrangement.

SJG

Hitler - The Rise youtube.com

imdb.com

en.wikipedia.org I think this was the guy who developed the Hitler Salute from the Harvard football cheer.

thecrimson.com

Very important to understand the Nazi's, because so very much of what is now going on is so similar.

I should have sued our first marriage counselor. I know from her office staff that she was not really licensed, needed the husband there. She was denigrating. She was aggravating and explosive rage situation, creating danger.

I cruised her office a year ago. No change except a new Porshe Boxter taking the place of her own 944. Real racket!

SJG

^^^^ lol! So true.

I made my above post just as I was heading out the door. It was a new Porsche Boxter which was taking the place of her old 944. She and the husband used an old Victorian house as their office. But I know that the wife was not really licensed.

Usually I don't care about any licensing or anything like that. But this counselor, she was really stirring the pot in what was already a dangerous situation.

And as it was I had to listen to totally irrational yelling as I tried to drive home, after each session, and then rage for several days there after.

And this counselor was really denigrating me, talking about things and making judgments about things which she knew nothing about.

Totally irresponsible and improper. But rather than suing her, I had a more immediate problem to try and deal with, sometimes wondering if I would ever get out alive.

There is one thing different today. The domestic violence laws are so much tougher. Once there has been an arrest, then even if the court order is only the Peaceful Contact type, it is still illegal to do marriage counseling until the defendant has completed their very tough 52 week program.

I can see the wisdom in this. Marriage counselors really can be playing with fire.

Well I could say that the money I spent on that counselor should have instead been a down payment on a divorce lawyer. But I feel that one has to give a problematic spouse the chance. Very hard to leave a spouse by the side of road. And one has to forever live with how they handle themselves and what they do.

SJG

Jazz 625 - Modern Jazz Quartet (1964) youtube.com

I always knew that marriage was high risk. But I did not understand the ways in which it makes you subject to all sorts of conformist social pressures. I really thought my spouse could be a partner, instead of an enemy. I was underestimating the social pressures which were already in play.

Now I have to admit here, for a while I was getting more conformist myself, getting off on being the coat and tie career man. But I was also getting hit with all sorts of other free fall sorts of pressures, where I was being driven was not good. A death trap.

This is why I had to start drawing lines, and then pulling back when these were not respected.

People have analyzed married couples having troubles. They say that when the husband starts pulling back, that is a certain sign that it won't be continuing.

Mostly I just did not know how far I needed to assert myself so that I would never even be in such situations. So much conformist pressure operates by heterosexual normative relationships. This is how our consumer society propagates itself.

Guy who had a tendency to attract and marry depressive and suicidal women: en.wikipedia.org

His University of Philosophical Research still operates today at Los Feliz and Griffith Park Blvds, in Los Angeles.

google.com

They say this building is an Egyptian - Mayan - Atlantian style.

uprs.edu

new.prs.org

SJG

Steely Dan - Katy Lied (1975, Studio Album) 09 Any World (That I'm Welcome To) youtube.com

piano cover youtube.com

This looked like it could be San Francisco, but then there are things I did not recognize.

But this: centralpark.com

has to be NYC Central Park

youtube.com

Of course the remedy when an intimate relationship turns negative is just to pull back. But beyond a point this is easier said than done.

I think I felt that I had to prove something, so with the one who would be my wife, when she turned negative I took it personally and tried to repair the situation.

But then once we were married, she right away used that as a weapon. Hence this thread.

SJG

My ex did not have experience with the emotional dynamics of a committed sexual relationship. She did not understand how strange things can get.

I did, and my experience was negative.

Oh well.

She says she just underwent cataract surgery in both eyes.

SJG

SJG, don't you think that if you married a girl that wasn't from Mexico that you would t have had all the cultural barriers to overcome that it would have turned out differently!

I see so many guys in your situation marry foreign born girls and they can't assimilate, so instead of getting on board with the system, like Melania Trump has done, they rebel against their husbands because they aren't happy, or because they are bored. It's like your ex-wife decided it was easier to quit and soak you for as much as she can while it lasts until you can't stand it anymore. If you had married a US citizen then it is easier to vet and she can assimilate easier to work together as a team.

My suggestion next time SJG is not to marry a foreigner, right?

Jim, it s obvious that she left him on grounds of mental cruelty. That he is a control freak. He wanted her to change for him. That is not marriage SJG

JimGassagain and mikeya02, don't you think that if you refrained from commenting on someone else's affairs, matters which you could not possibly know anything about, that then you wouldn't be making such JACKASSES OF YOURSELVES?

SJG

Jimmy Smith - All the Best (FULL ALBUM) youtube.com

I'm sorry SJG but I wish you'd start making some sense in your comments. One comment makes you appear like your a heterosexual male regarding female sex workers, and then you will immediately follow that comment with a topic of hitting male bath houses and Male AMPs! Why can't I figure out which personality is yours? It's like I'm engaging with two personalities?

Please refrain from commenting multiple times , once as a gay man and the other as a monger. I like you better when you type as a fellow monger, but seriously don't take the ex-wife comment from me too personally. It's just that I'm still married with 5 children and only see life through my own lense.

I hadn't self actualized enough before I was married.

en.wikipedia.org

My wife had not either. But once we were married, and so she felt she had rights to make demands, and that she was no longer easily discardable, it turned into a nightmare.

At least I learned how to control my temper and how not to allow myself to be provoked. But I was under attack year after year after year, and I consider myself very lucky to have made it out alive.

SJG

***** Did she?

This is the word I was looking for, individuated. I had not individuated enough before I was married.

Self-actualized is an Abraham Maslow Humanistic Psychology thing, which I don't really go along with.

What I was looking for was Individuated, and that comes from people I do follow, Carl Jung, Friedrich Nietzsche, Arthur Schopenhauer, Henri Bergson, Gilles Deleuze, and Manuel De Landa.

en.wikipedia.org

SJG

youtube.com Cream - White Room

i'm now convinced that marriage only works well when it is a kindred spirit relationship. even know my parents were married 62 years before my dad died... it was unhappy.

"marriage only works well when it is a kindred spirit relationship"

I agree, and this was what I was expecting. Before we were married it seemed to be there. But after, it vanished.

And that is my point with this thread.

SJG

Secrets of Hermes Trismegistus: Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio youtube.com

My ex, she just switched into fear and defensiveness mode.

She was not willing to deal with childhood fears of abandonment, so instead she went to extremes to try and control, instead of relate. So not only was she not a kindred spirit, she was not even playing with a full deck. It was just rage rage rage, and it only let up once she finally had gone so far that she was under the thumb of the law.

She made the marriage impossible, she used the existence of the marriage as a weapon.

She knew this was all wrong, but she still did it, and she had friends who did the same sorts of things, and she was always in communications with them.

Only maybe now is she starting to change, maybe.

SJG

As far as having the potential of being a kindred spirit, I would say that my ex was above average as far as young women go. But still, it did not happen. Or like maybe she was running about 10 years back. I mean, she understood the issues and had processed them, but only about 10 years after the fact.

And this still seems to be going on today.

Well, life comes at you a lot faster than that.

She was one person before we were married. Though she had her short comings, so does everyone else. So though I knew there was a risk, and that in general for everyone I have seen, marriage is a death trap. I felt that I had a potential kindred spirit, and so that it was worth the risk.

Once we were married, and she was no longer easily disposable, she changed completely!!

All of a sudden, she was taking the executive role, and she was the one who held the veto power over my legitimacy. It was crazy! But it was a legal trap.

It should be outlawed under the 14th Amendment.

Later I also realized that she was never going to be sexually what I wanted and needed. I just had not been individuated enough to see this.

I am not saying that monogamy can never work, but on the other hand I just see that it is extremely risky, and so usually people who are highly sexualized reject it.

SJG

Seems like your ex-wife began individuating herself. By the way, individuated isn't a word.

^^^^

At least according to "Words with Friends", but you won't accept my friend request to play against me SJG. Jeez I thought we were friends!?

Individuated is a word, even since Carl Jung.

My ex wife made it impossible for the marriage to work, from day one. She did change, and sort of start to individuate, but she was always about 10 years behind the curve. She is still like that this very day, only now starting to understand where things were 10 years ago.

SJG

Getting into some curious territory with the ex now.

I have had to limit communications with her to email only. Last thing I would ever do at this point is talk with her on the telephone, where there are no protections against interrogation attempts.

And then recently she sent some things which brought the old days right back, trying to interrogate and question me via email, and trying to make me jump to it for her. Just like when we were married. It really disturbed me, especially as I still suffer from Post Marital Stress Disorder.

So I shifted communications with her to another email account, so that I might create the impression that her communications are getting lost. That is, I've had to go non-responsive with her. I send her something, best is about once every 2 months, and following with holidays and birthdays, or other things I want to communicate.

But it is one way communications, me making announcements and never acknowledging receipt of what she sends.

Now for a long time she was non-responsive, really mute. Not now.

She lives far far away, and has no way of communicating with me except email.

In times past she has invited me to come and be with her. I had discussed this some time back with a trusted neighbor. He said that that would mean becoming totally dependent on her. He was right and that is not something I want.

Okay, but now this ex is like asking me permission to come back.

She can do what she wants, I have no control. But even if a gun were being held to my head, I would never agree to live with her or be legally shackled to her again.

Okay, but having said this, it does not mean that I am her enemy or that I want to totally do what she accused me of, "You kicked me out of you life."

No, the reason I have kept this communications channel open and active is to promote understanding and healing.

Though I have not said this to her in these messages, we each have too much invested in the other to totally dissociate. And in her later message she is saying the same thing. But in her version, it does sound like she wants cohabitation and something like a marriage. That is not going to happen.

So why? Well there are things I am involved in now which she must not have detailed knowledge of. I am trying to achieve political change on many levels. Eventually I will leave Silicon Valley, and I don't know that I will ever want this to be my base of operations again.

Some years back I felt that it was time to leave, and so I spent much time photographing all sorts of stuff, 1000's of pics of the local area, and all saved.

Know what, even in just a few years, lots of what I photographed has been torn down.

I like funky things, not upscale residences at all.

Anyway, before I leave I want some victory stories, there are things I want to bring to culmination. This last election did not go well locally. Lots of bad people got re-elected, people I find repulsive. I want to take the stuffings out of them, before I leave.

And there are other more specific and more personal things I need to see completed.

So when I leave what I expect to have is scalps, that I can show people. I will be bragging about what I have done, just like I brag now about putting that Pentecostal Daughter Molester into San Quentin.

But the work is slow going. But then again, in this year I did accomplish a lot and I have learned much too.

So the ex does not really understand any of this. And if I cooperate in any way with what she seems to want, I would only be setting us both up for huge problems. Won't do that.

But I do want to make good happen for each of us.

For one thing I want to help her set up a suitable professional career which really utilizes her abilities. That has been out of reach for her.

For one thing, she needs to understand that one does not build a career by applying for a job. She has always been resistant to this understanding, and so she junk jobbed.

And then since the people she works with in such places have zero pride in their work and their occupation, they are fatalistic. And they traffic in talk about Pyramid Scams and other Get Rich Quick Schemes. And so I always had to try and talk sense into her. She was impressionable. Maybe she was just immature. But so were the other people she was dealing with.

In our own relationship and the sexual component she waged war and crossed lines which are inexcusable. Though I don't hold this against her, it does tell me that I don't want to be involved with her. I don't want what she wants and I must never lead her to believe otherwise.

But we were together for so long, and through so many trying times, that we do very much fit each other, even in the ways we talk, and then helping her go to school and all.

TO BE CONTINUED

SJG

The Very Best of Chicago youtube.com

Living with the ex, it turned into a totally desexualized environment. It was not like that before we were married, but then I did not live with her then either.

I see now that she knew that she had to keep me coming back. So while sex could be suspended when she provoked arguments, she knew that she could not suspend it for too long. It was a big game.

They say that women have feelings. But to me it has always seemed like their feelings have them.

Once married, it seemed like she fought to cut the sex back. When we had been dating, I was just seeing her over the weekends. But then later, feeling that I needed to make more of a claim on her, I would just come to her place every night, and fuck her. This was after working late. So there was no kitchen action, just fuck her, maybe eat something she got from the fridge, and then sleep. Fuck her at least once per night.

But once married she waged a kind of a war to cut the sex back, back to just weekends, and that was only if there was not an ongoing tiff. And she started tiff's regularly by making non-constructive demands, mostly about things which would radically escalate our monthly cost of living. She was not a partner. And every available moment would be spent doing bullshit, and then cleaning up, in the kitchen. Finally I got sick of seeing her in the kitchen, and I told her so.

Beyond a point I could see that she was not a partner, she was an adversary, someone who was just dumping her own stuff onto me.

She was involved with problematic people who were influencing this. And then she got involved with people who were worse.

Living with her became completely desexualized. I don't think I could ever or would ever have sex with her again either. She just crossed too many lines. And that is why I have titled this thread, "Marriage Used As A Weapon", because I feel that it was all extreme betrayal, using the fact that a marriage is hard to dissolve, and using the constant threat of explosive rage and material destruction. So though it took a long time, eventually I had to have law enforcement and the courts deal with her. She really turned into a monster.

I made sure that her family, and the close friends who were part of the family, understood that something was seriously wrong. So I am sure she has taken quite a haircut, just over her own stupidity. One time she even admitted that she knew she was acting crazy, mental hospital kind of crazy. I'm sure the family understands this.

In the court room, a couple of lawyers from other cases even told me as much.

One thing I learned was to control my temper. If I had not done this, it wouldn't be the Pentecostal Daughter Molester who is in San Quentin, it would be me.

I don't think it good to spend too much desexualized time with women. It gets to be like a church social event. And I mean, this is in your own home. So regardless of what other guys might say, I am quite sure that I would not want ever again to live with a woman again.

That's part of why I started this thread: tuscl.net

But I don't think guys have really thought it through. So used to sex being scarce and hence doing what ever it takes to get it. But never really thinking about what it would be like if it were free and unlimited, how much would you actually want and how much time would you want to spend with women?

SJG

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Sure SJG, I bet her version of things is completely different

welcome to the life that too many experience. much better to be single. wish i did it a looooong time ago.

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Justme, thanks for the words of support. Above you spoke about the need for a "kindred spirit relationship". As things turned difficult, this is what I tried to make happen, and even fought for. But she was just intent on manipulation, power, control, and denigration. At bottom it was neuroticism rooted in fear. And so this is why I say, never again with her. And I'm not going to risk trying to make it work with another young woman. There are just going to have to be other ways of living. Really, we should outlaw marriage.

Thanks, SJG

DJANGO REINHARDT youtube.com

One thing which still troubles me is this, at this point what kind of a relationship can I have with my ex. I have never wanted to cut her off completely. But on the other hand, she wants to try and make it work again. I will never go for that.

So would she be welcome in my life in some way? And I have talked about an organization I am working to build, though I do still need to limit how much I disclose. Would she ever be welcome in that.

My ex crossed over some very basic lines, she made the marriage lethal, a death trap. She attacked my personhood, and continually. So I at this point say that she is persona non grata.

These were never sexual infidelities. And this is because sex is not that important to her. She wants to be right, not sexual. And this was always part of the problem.

And so really, I could never have much to do with her.

I wanted to help her build a suitable professional career. She never cooperated with this. And today, I think it even less likely that she would cooperate.

So what else do I have to offer her? She does not need money.

Mail her a book? Maybe have Amazon mail it is easier?

Her company, mostly non-sexual, is neurotic. Always has been. Before marriage she was play acting and I was just blind.

What I never did was just tell her, "Here is your resume, here is what you are reading tonight to prepare, and I will discuss with you and rehearse with you and I am taking you to meet someone so that you might work for them tomorrow." I never went that far, and she would have never gone along with being anything like a Sugar Baby. But she did always operate by working through other people, and this really pissed me off, how impressionable she always was. So I guess, at certain times, I could have done it that way. But I was not always in a position to be pulling strings like that. And doing that does not really build a professional career.

If handled like that she would come across as a bimbo. And some firms have self appointed bimbo screeners.

She even had me review a resume from a Vietnamese girl, who to me seemed like a bimbo, lots of job changes for primarily social reasons. And this time, wanted to get out of the semi-conductor clean room and into an office environment, so that she could again wear makeup. And you could tell that her other job changes were being orchestrated by other people.

I never did things like that with my ex, before or during marriage.

I think she just never understood the idea of a professional career, or felt it within her reach. But this is also one of the reasons she was such a toxin in my life and in my home.

So today no. So I really have nothing to offer her, because I am not going anywhere near her sticky web again.

What do older women do with themselves?

SJG

Deep Purple - Strange Kind Of Woman - Live 1973 (USA, New York) youtube.com

TL;DR

I realized something this morning. I don't know what sort of interaction I could have with my ex-wife, other than having Amazon send her a book.

Well it is exactly the same problem I had when I was married to her. Except that then, she was always a knife going for my throat. She would have completely destroyed me if she'd of gotten the chance.

So I was always trying to find ways to relate to her. One big problem was that she would never go along with the idea that we were to work together to further our professional careers. She never accepted the idea of professional career for herself. And for me she treated the concept as meaningless.

SJG

Cannonball Adderley - Know What I Mean? - Full Album youtube.com

SJG u just repeated what you stated the previous day "send her a book through Amazon". Do you think that is a funny punchline? I'm a comedian and I can tell you that you're not the least bit comical, other than your revelations of failed relationships.

Your ex wife treated you that way because she hates you, just like every other member on TUSCL. You see it's not the people with whom you interact with that are the problem, it's the person in the mirror that you're looking at.

Ready for you Gaffigan, i00.i.aliimg.com

SJG

Another thing about my ex is just that she was never sexualized enough, like maybe only about 2% of what I needed.

Now when I met her I was not that much better off than she. But since things have changed. Sex is not that important to her, and she was never comfortable with dressing for sex or otherwise ritualizing it.

The good side is that such persons will always be sexually faithful. But that does not compensate for the nightmare of living with her. Any problem and sex is the first casualty.

So now I consider how I would relate to her, and why I would be able to relate to new women, but not her.

Well this is actually the same problem I faced while married to her and cohabitating. Not sure what the answer is. It seems to be that at most it could be an intellectual relationship.

When married, I bought her a mountain of books. She read many of them. So I guess I could have Amazon start sending her some?

Not sure what else I could do. There is some line of meeting of the minds which is still not crossed, and I don't know that it ever will be.

Even today, most women don't seriously persue knowledge based professional careers, ones where you have to always be working to keep current and to keep expanding your realm of expertise.

I put her through school, and that was good. But afterwards she fell prey to all manner of conformist pressures, and came to want to live life just to keep up with her female friends.

SJG

Ambient Music for Study • Work • Focus • Concentration • 1 Hour youtube.com

Before she and I were married, it was mostly going out on weekends. That was fine. But once you live with someone it changes. And things never really did develop as they needed to. And especially, there never was any meeting of the mind on long term goals. So I was just playing defense, 365 days per year.

SJG

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God you're one stupid fucked up liberal nut job SJG

With my ex, I thought that giving her what she seemed to want and need, marriage, was the answer. But no, it was just the trap door to hell. Suddenly problems escalated by a factor of 100x. She never really was on board, and the first marriage counselor agreed with me on that.

I think about it last night. I don't want her to ever have knowledge of my affairs again. That is how I see it now, especially where it gets to my worldly involvements, and things connected to money.

She knows about the Pentecostal Daughter Molester, the guy I helped put into San Quentin. But she only knows in overview, not details and not the guy's identity.

She can have similar knowledge of anything else like that, scalps. But no more.

She can hear about things which are really intellectual abstractions to prove a point.

Otherwise nothing. So why could I hand a current business card to a stripper or AMP girl, and talk about lots of detailed current things, but not my ex. Well, these other women have never demonstrated themselves as malicious. And likely they never would.

So my ex is in a special isolated zone, otherwise persona non-grata, until and if their is a huge change in her.

SJG

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I think now that it was a mistake to get involved with a girl who did not already have a professional career established, and who was not seriously committed to it. And this commitment to a professional career and to ongoing education is rare among women, even today.

If she does not have that, then she may never. The issue is not money. I was fine putting this ex through school. But the issue is what is she going to expect, demand, in life? What are her values and priorities?

This one did not really know. But as such, she was extremely impressionable, and that was always a problem.

SJG

sites.google.com

I'm going to present here a few snippets from a recent email from my ex-wife. Yes, this is all out of context. And I also have had to go non-responsive with her. I don't reply to her emails. I've shifted my communications with her to a secondary email. I write about once every month or two, and I act like I have not read her messages. I do this because I have found her messages problematic. She is trying the same sorts of manipulation tactics she used when we were married. I'm not going to let her do that.

1. "I'll admit, I have my flaws and imperfections. I had a temper and I like things to go my way."

2. "One thing though, I never wanted to intentionally hurt you. How much I wanted you to be happy with me. How much I wanted to have a "home" with you, a place just for you and I, but I failed."

3. "I am not making complaints now, I just want you to know that whatever happened to us, it will stay with me for the rest of my life. I will never be able to get over it. I am living with such pain because I did and still do care so damn much about you. We both have changed and we see things differently.

4. "Take care of your body. Health is the only thing that money can't buy. "

So snippet, #1, She still has a horrible and explosive temper. She uses rage as a way of not feeling her own feelings.

#2 Maybe she didn't want to harm me, but she made life unlivable. If there is not some external constraint acting upon her, she is just destructive. She made the continuation of a professional career very difficult. She is a destroyer, and she is like this anytime there is no external constraint upon her.

#3 Back around the time I joined TUSCL she was saying, "What do you want me to be apologizing to you forever." Fact is she has never apologized for anything. And none of this is an apology either. It is just more of her self-righteousness.

And #4, that's just more of her standard fatalism.

Things move very slow. I want there to be peace, but I cannot force it. As it stands now I will not talk on the telephone with her. Communications must be restricted. I can't see how I would ever meet with her face to face. She was so destructive when we were married. She acted without any sense of responsibility for the effects. So today, I don't want her to know anything about me. This is all very painful for me too.

SJG

The Egyptian, 1954 youtube.com

I reflect on my ex. What makes her different from other women, is simply that she made life completely unworkable. I'm not saying others might not do that, but I am saying that I would never give them the chance.

As far as my ex, the damage she did will always place her in a different category. But this does not mean that at some point in the future that their might not be civil and constructive communicaitons. But with her, there will always have to strong external controls.

SJG

Panthers youtube.com

Who are you responding to in this thread? Do you need someone to counsel you, because you're the only person contributing to this thread?

This thread is proof of your disability....crazy!

Ready for you Gaffigan, cuts its own threads: d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net

SJG

Panthers youtube.com

@san_jose_guy "But this does not mean that at some point in the future that their might not be civil and constructive communicaitons."

you'd better have your mother read that restraining order your ex-wife took out on your PSYCHO ass to you again. i bet there isn't an expiration date anywhere on it

In the last 12 months, communications from my ex-wife had been more and more cordial. But, still not really relating to me, just trying to get her hooks into me.

I restrict it to email.

Women have more power f2f and on the telephone, when they can interrogate, and when they can make you wrong for not responding to their looks.

Now that she is back in the area, and sees that I am not going to see her, she is pissed. But still she is not actually relating to me. Just like when we were married.

Had lots of bad dreams about her over the years. Last night had a dream involving her, it was not bad, it was neutral. It was like some of our married times, but she was still not relating to me. Maybe she just is not able to.

Maybe that is the reason for justifying excluding her from my future undertakings, all of it she just is not willing or able to relate to.

SJG

Had another dream which involved the ex-wife. This was a bad dream.

Now I must say, usually dreams are unrealistic, juxtaposing people and places in strange ways.

In the dream, I was interacting with this strip club dancer I used to know, K. K. was dressed in an extremely naughty negligee, she was like a dream come true, and she was throwing herself at me. But I was not really engaging.

We were in the place my wife and I used to live.

Then my ex-wife showed up. She saw that I was not really engaging with K., but still somehow I knew her. My ex-wife was livid. She was in a homicidal level of rage.

I know that I was not really fully innocent, and I knew that women can be like that.

But still, I was not going to deal with that kind of rage or have my life run by this woman. I was going through the yellow pages, somehow the law was going to deal with her, not me.

*********** Dream analysis:

I real life my wife did have an explosive and very desructive temper. I did decline to engage in emotional entanglements with outside women, like K. But I was not totally innocent. And that didn't matter to my ex-wife.

I keep her on a separate email account, but I bet she sent me something and that caused the dream.

But in real life I am involved in intense political conflicts, and some of these involve angry and near psychotic women.

I am not going to be run by female rage, ever again.

SJG

I had another bad dream about my ex-wife. It was this morning, when I dozed off again. In the dream she had asked me if she could stay with me, and somehow I had said yes. And then a day later she started questioning me, trying to know about my affairs. And I repeated to her what is my position, that I need to protect myself. And she said, "No woman would ever accept that." And then I told her that she needed to leave. And then I saw that again I would be exposed to her righteous rage.

And then I awakened trembling. I recognized that this was just a dream and she has no idea where I am or how to find me beyond email. And I have already gone no responsive in email. I write to her, but I act like I am not receiving her messages. I I felt so happy that she was not living with me again, and I know that I would never allow that to happen.

I noticed that in emails she accepts the idea that I need to protect myself, meaning that she is walled off. But I noticed that in the dream where she was in my space, she did not accept that.

I see now that what I am feeling and what I experienced was just how women control in a family context. I grew up with it, and I've experienced it in various relationships, and then in marriage. NEVER AGAIN!

SJG

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I am so happy I married my wife. Anyone who says marriage is society's prison is someone who has a bad choice in partners or doesn't compromise to make the marriage work.

I realized this after taking care of my wife for the last 6 weeks. She can't speak and I must feed her through a tube. After she has taken care of 5 kids most of her adult life, I am honored and privileged to be able to return the favor by taking care of her and canceling my tour dates and millions of $$ in revenue. I can always make up the money later, but we can never make up time lost not being spent with our loved ones.

JimG, glad things are working for you and your wife. I appreciate you sentiments.

I also took care of my wife many times. And that has made it all the harder that the marriage itself could never be made to work.

SJG

I truly think that those who fail in their marriage failed before the marriage even started.

Proper vetting needs to start before dating commences. Even after dating, there should be tell tale signs that shows if she is marriage material. Ignoring the red flags is complete stupidity by the man who chooses to recognize them, and chooses to quit the marriage by divorce as an easy way out. Most men blame the woman for their failed marriage when in fact it is the man's inept intelligence to realiZe the girl's downfalls because he is too busy thinking about getting laid. You see this mostly when men marry Latin women, Hoping they will change once the marriage begins. It's really a sad story of a desperate man looking for a dominant relationship to hide his insecurities of finding a woman of his own caste.

Marriage exposes both partners to coercive and conservatizing forces. What is really bad is that it is usually children how get hit with the brunt of it. Adults who don't live up to their own values and refuse to accept responsibility for the lifestyle choices they have made.

SJG

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Does this mean you're getting married again, SJG?

How about kids? I'm always flabbergasted when people without kids try to tell those who do have kids how they should raise kids. It's amazing how someone without any experience could tell someone how to do something that has experience.

It's a lot like somebody who has never started a revolution telling our forefathers how they fucked up in crating our constitution. Makes no sense.

Most people that have kids, only had them so that they could use them, to get an adult identity. So while I do not give out "parenting advice", as I know that is just encouraging the exploitation of children, given the chance, I am the most fierce child protector anyone could ever meet. The last guy I dealt with is serving a very long sentence in our state prison. Given sufficient cause I would not be reluctant about invoking the power of citizen's arrest, or interceding with physical violence.

And I am tracking his appeals effort, doing what I can to make sure he does not get out, and if he does, that he is tried again.

SJG

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I would never get married again, or even live with a woman. I would not want to let any one woman have that much power over me again.

My ex, she is her own worst enemy. Here I am working to build an organization which I expect to include lots of people, including lots of women, 50%.

Could my ex wife also be part of it? Why not?

Well she just doesn't want to relate to me. She instead is trying to get her hooks into me, control hooks. I just won't allow it because I protect myself by limiting the conversations. Email only. And I have gone non-responsive. I write to her, but I act like I have never received anything from her.

So she cannot interrogate me. She doesn't really like this of course. But she still is not really relating to me, just trying to find ways to get at me.

She insisted on strict monogamy and demonstrated over and over again how she would go into insane rages, even with no evidence. So, while entitled to have her preferences, she proved that she is unsafe. But what she has not started doing is actually relating to me.

Actually our working relationship was only of the dating stage. That worked, and she was something of the sex pot that I wanted.

But once married she changed into something completely different, a whole reservoir of socially conformist thinking was released.

I always assumed that eventually she would become a partner. Though making some movement, she still shows no potential for being a partner, only a potential for being a continuing danger.

I did not know how to protect myself back then. What I needed was a lawyer. I should have right off sued that first marriage counselor, making a dangerous situation worse, and having no real ability to deal with other people's issues. Really extremely limited. The second one seen some years later was better, but by that time things had further deteriorated.

At some point I'll start sending my ex a book or two. I always gave her books when we were married. Now we have Amazon to do that.

She is her own wellspring of poison.

I don't want there to always be animosity, but really, she did so much harm to me, and to herself, that the door to her has to be closed forever. She is going to actually start relating to me at an intellectual level, or the communications will be few.

SJG

Led Zeppelin, Stairway To Heaven youtube.com

Gee, it's sure a good thing you're not psycho or anything, SJG.

A theme that seems to be present in all your threads here, SJG, is how important control is to you. Sounds like it's what ruined your marriage. But it's pretty among people with narcissistic personalities as yours to think they should be able to control everything and especially other people.

Something that might benefit you is learning to lose this need to control everything. Play poker might help you. You can't control which cards are going to come out, so just have to learn to do the best you can in situations you can't control.

That's a starter. Lose the need to control the universe. Maybe it stems from the fact that you have a mental illness you realize you are not fully in control of and you hate that. So you try to control everything including other people. Not respect them as distinct human beings with their own lives, goals, and values.

Good luck there, chump!

Lol! Think he will take your advice to heart Dougster ?

I don't know. Let's see what he has to say.

SJG has nothing to say? That's gotta be first.

Lol!

Sounds like SGJ needs to get over his ex and move on. Unless he wants to hook back up with her. I didn't read everything but those are the two choices I see. I guess a third is just some occasional communication due to interaction because of kids.

Sounds like SJG's plans for his faggity organization contributed to the failure of his marriage.

Also it would be nice to hear SJG's ex-wife's side of the story. People SJG's narcissistic personality will never take personality responsibility when anything they are involved in fails. It will be entirely blame shifting. Her take might be as simple as "the guy went psycho so I divorced his ass", however.

The thought of that guy as a parent is frightening

I didn't dredge through all this but did he say he had children? Agree that would be totally fucked up.

It I were to guess as to what SJG's mental illness is I would say malignant narcissism with creeping schizotypal.

Didn't read the all the way through I just don't see him needing to be in contact once divorce is finalized and property is distributed and settled if no children involved. But hey logic didn't have any bearing on this guy.

Marriage is a chumps game

However in this case after listening to SJG for the last few years I would probably agree with his EX....

^^^^^^^ Daddillac, fuck yourself!

SJG

Sanjoselloyd is not a pathetic loser, he is THEE MOST PATHETIC LOSER in all the North America. what a fucking pussy ass bitch. His wife left him after catching him at the bath house with his slim Mexican boys.

SJG awfully quiet now. What's up with that? Usually he'll type a book or two a day of complete rubbish for this forum.

The difficult part is I agree with a lot of what he is saying on this thread.... however after listening to his bullshit for the past few years I do not know of anyone who could live with that.

Daddillac and Dougster, I'm sending you guys a double ended dildo.

SJG

I think about it. Working to build an organization. Could my ex-wife ever be a part of it?

Well, things happened with her, she crossed over lines, so I have to say no.

Well how about someone else, a younger woman that I do not know, but who is just like her?

Well, the organization has to be very selective if it is to work. It has a demanding mission. I don't think someone like my ex-wife would ever really be able to be a part of it. Have to be screened out. Too neurotic, not sexualized enough.

Today I say away from women who remind me of her.

SJG

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^^^ what a fuckin' psycho!

^^^^^^ HaHaHa! What's the matter Dougy, lull in market activity, need to find some more marks?

SJG

My ex, well she never allowed the marriage to work. I kept cleaning up my side of the sidewalk, and moved out of some very stressful employment, blaming myself for bringing negativity home.

I assumed that eventually my reaching out for real communications would be accepted.

But no, it was just the continuation of bullshit, and of having a non-partner, shackled to me. It was like losing my citizenship, my right to try and purse happiness of any type. The longer it went on the more it was just selling myself out.

She was not capable of communicating with me. And the two marriage counseling attempts just made it worse, especially that first one. She I should have sued.

Even to this day, my ex trying to position herself to get her hooks back into me, but my not allowing it. She still is not really communicating with me.

SJG

Thinking of my ex, and then of a live in GF before her, and then of a girl who really rejected me with extreme prejudice in high school.

If I was seeing others and boning them, then none of the above 3 would have ever had been able to have a negative effect on me.

Funny, in high school there were a couple of others who were throwing themselves at me. They and the one who rejected me so hard, had exactly the same available info about me. Nothing bad or good more that any of them could have known.

The one who rejected me was of a more affluent elite than the other two.

Of those other two, I did not really return the show of interest. Not really feeling that I could, not a master of my own world, so to speak. And these other two did have associations and things I saw as problematic.

So of the high school girl, the GF, and the ex-w

^^^^ continuing

They all were able to effect me negatively because I had no really found my own way yet. That wife was completely inappopriate. Over the long years I changed. Would never marry someone like that again, would not marry anyone

But what is to be her status with me now?

SJG

You spend all this time with this shit clogging up the board, no one cares. She only thinks of you when the alimony check is late. Go get some balls you pussy ass bitch.

If she can learn to relate to me differently, then she could have some role in my future life. Otherwise, she is out, and who ever she fucks I do not care.

SJG

Reflecting, my ex, she was way over the tolerability limit right off in the marriage. Before the marriage, no of course not.before the marriage.

I'm not saying she needed to be disciplined or punished. I'm saying she made life unworkable, and that becomes a mortal threat!

I did not want divorce because I did not want to fail. And I did not believe necessarily that any other woman would be better.

To Be Continued

SJG

She became a serious threat to health, happiness, and life, right off.

I did not want to be a 'failure', and I did not want to fail at marriage. So I looked for ways to let time fix it. She mellowed a bit. But even to this day, she is not really communicating.

Marriage should be outlawed.

In line for something in the Family Court Building, I told people that no one should be allowed to marry until they have filled out all the papers required for divorce, like all asset related matters. And then to keep the marriage going, they have to appear in court together once each year and submit updates to all those forms, and apply for a marriage extension.

If they fail to do this, then marital dissolution automatically ensues.

Marriage should be abolished.

SJG

She divorced you because you became an over controlling PSYCHO.

^^^^^^ That is the diametric opposite of how things went.

SJG

My ex, she just crossed over lines, becoming a threat to my ability to live, and hence to hers too. But she only now is starting to show even the faintest glimmer of understanding.

She tries to get her hooks into me, and she finds a stone wall. Won't disclose my present location,or anything else to encourage her. It is not going to happen.

Before we were married, she was a good person to communicate with and relate to. But afterwards, no, she became 100% outer directed, impossible to talk with.

And it just got worse and worse.

So today I make email communications, but they are guarded. There is a very high privacy wall. And I make it clear that the problem always was that she make any kind of partnership impossible.

And even today, she remains unreachable, trying to get her hooks back into me, but not actually being capable of relating. She needs to have power to control and power to destroy. She is not ever going to get that back again. I won't even see her or communicate beyond emails. But she really seems incapable of or just not understanding of the simple fact that she made relating impossible, and in this regard she has not changed.

SJG

Papa Roach -Forever youtube.com

Another bad dream involving my ex-wife.

I woke up very frightened because for some reason she was to be staying with me, and again waging a war of emotional terrorism if I did not show commitment to her.

I had to examine the facts to calm myself down. Awakened I reminded myself of all the ways that that is impossible. She has no way of contacting me or finding me, except email. And I have already gone non-responsive in emails, press release style only.

So there is no threat.

But it still draws attention to a question. What is it that makes it so a sexual relationship with her could never be possible again, what line did she cross?

Well, she waged a war of emotional terrorism, and that was both harmful and destructive. And though I resisted and declined to be provoked, I still was for very long unable to take the kinds of legal actions which would put an end to it.

I am not saying that other women might not be inclined to do the same things. But I would not let them get away with it, not even give them the chance to try.

But with this one, it did happen.

So does that mean that she and I are forever on opposing sides of the planet?

I don't know. My basic philosophy of life does not support those types of resolutions.

SJG

Hand of Fate youtube.com

you are such a fucking cuckholded pussy, go hang yourself

And, of course, as is typical with fuckheads like SJG everything is the other persons fault. In reality what happened is very simple: he went psycho, she left.

^^^^ And here we see it, his protoplasm frozen in LN2, and his sentience living on in Google's computing cloud, he still remains fixated on things of his past corporeal life, and he is often going to be posting utter nonsense.

SJG

Wife seems to have vacated the area. If what she is saying in her email is true. Back with extended family.

This is where she should be.

Pissed that I would not see her. But I never said anything to make her expect otherwise. I am still rebuilding, and I do have to maintain a privacy wall.

I kept a stream of communications in the loop, but I still am remaining strictly unresponsive to her emails.

I tried for so many years to reach out to her and build partnership. But she always refused, as she still does. So it is just like being back in the marriage counselors office with her screaming really. No real issues addressed. Always just her using tall grass for cover while ready to attack at any moment.

SJG

youtube.com Graham Bond ✪ Holy Magick

What a long fucking thread worth nothing to read, other than to view this as SJG's therapy/counseling session. I don't think he has moved on from the loss of his ex wife leaving him, otherwise he wouldn't be writing so much about her.

My wife and I will be together until we die.

Gaffigan,

screw yourself: images.toolplanet.com

SJG

Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven (Live Earls Court 1975) youtube.com

No Quarter youtube.com

^^^ SJG, that's gay! Why would anyone wish to place an auger in someone else's ass like you've suggested above. This must prove you're gay!

Gays are human beings, SJG is a lump of dried shit.

Look what my ex just sent me:

"I think that you are a man of dignity and I respect you."

This has taken now many years, and lots and lots of email only type restricted bandwidth communications to get to this point.

SJG

marriage is like a time bomb... and hope the timer malfunctions before it blows up.

^^^^^^^ Very true!

I always had felt that the problems could be fixed, its just that it could take over 1000 years.

The individuals are not bad. It is marriage that is bad.

SJG

My ex was not able to be a partner. And in the new things I am building, she would not be capable of being a partner in those ventures either.

SJG