Does dancer quality not mean that much anymore?

I think what happens is, everyone thinks they'd rather pay $250 for an 8 or 9, than $150 for a 6 or 7. Then they go to club with 6s and 7s, realize that when their little head takes over, it doesn't matter as much -- and hell, it turns out they're not that discriminating when it comes to looks after all -- and they leave with an extra $100 in their wallet? That's what most guys will do. Bizarrely enough, they still think of themselves as $250/8-9 kind of guys, but what they actually do? $150/6-7. They vote follies on a poll, but in a forum with persistent nicknames, everyone claims to be a $250 guy.

This is exactly why I'm skeptical of all the people praising follies. It can't be that great if the strippers don't look good. It should be a requirement. If I go to a strip club, I go for fine white bitches with phat asses.(any other fine honeys are also accepted.)

I think mileage is the most important factor as far as tuscl is concerned. But I'm with ranukam. I'm not that interested if the strippers aren't fine.

You just have to know what to bring with you.

amazon.com

I think what you're hearing is that the AVERAGE dancer at Follies isn't that hot. I don't go there for the average dancers.

With about 80 girls on most day shifts, there are usually several to pick from who have the looks to dance at any club in the city. I'm just glad they choose to work at the club where mileage is off the fucking charts.

^yeah but with follies being as popular as it is how often do you get the best dancers? Even with 80 of them.

@subraman- Other people's finances might be different, but for me I don't have any problem spending $400 on a strip club visit if it warrants it. Some people might be more frugal with their money, and I don't blame them.

I'll take the 10 buck 7s. I drive a civic, even though I could afford a Lexus. I'm a value shopper.

tl; dr - As Peter Tips might say, dancer quality doesn't matter past a certain point.

Like chandler said, you don't go to the SC for average. My two favorite clubs are Follies and Tootsies, which pretty well fits the description of the 'opposite' club that is in the original post.

Here's where the difference is to me: there's no club that I know of in either city that is like the other. No Follies in Miami, no Tootsies in the A. Of the Follies dancers I've sampled, I'd say that I would get dances from 2/3 of them if they were at Tootsies. Then again, I think I have a more positive view of dancer quality at Follies than most...actually, I gave the dancer quality at Follies the same rating as I did at Tootsies (but I've seen better at Tootsies since that visit). At the same time, I don't have as many positives to say about the dancer quality at Mons than most people do. That star rating doesn't tell the whole story.

If the two were in the same place, I'd alternate because the vibe is different. Money doesn't really matter. I operate on what Peter Tips calls the "Dushku Limit" - if she looks good enough (or is attractive enough in other ways) for me to get a dance from, I'm getting one. If she's 7 or above, it's go time. She doesn't get extra points for being a 10 - and as many of us will attest, the dance will probably be worse from a 10.

Overall, the dancer quality at Follies, in my opinion, is not that great. But, like Chandler said, if you wait around, you will usually find a cute one. Unlike some clubs where the cute ones tend to give less enthusiastic dances, at Follies, the dances by the cuter dancers are almost always as good as the less attractive dancers. That is why Follies is so popular. If your dancer standards are not high then Follies will be a home run every time. If you are picky, you might strike out from time to time, but eventually you will find what you are looking for.

What JamesSD said

A thousand times

ranukam--> "Other people's finances might be different, but for me I don't have any problem spending $400 on a strip club visit if it warrants it."

Yep, can't blame you at all ... up through the mid-2000s, I did ALL my SCing at a club that had an embarrassment of hot girls, and paying through the nose for it. It's not just that it's awesome (and worth it) to have sex with a 9, it's also that when the club is full of 8s and 9s and 9+s, there's a kid-in-the-candystore kick to the libido, it's just awesome being surrounded by so much beauty. I still go to more-expensive hotter-girl clubs occasionally, but these days spend a lot more time at the club with lower prices and not-as-pretty girls. I don't go to the clubs with horrible lineups, but at the club I go to, I can almost always find a 7 or even an 8. My current almost-CF, you would notice her even if she were on saturday nightshift, she's arguably an 8, she'd be in the middle of the pack even during a super hot weekend nightshift, IMO. She's better looking than the string of girls I've enjoyed there for the past couple of years, but my ATF there from 2 years ago was a legit 9+, and there she was, at my service for not very much money (at least until she changed to weekend nightshifts, sigh).

Anyway, just different experiences. Definitely appreciate the "club full of 9s" experience, just can't afford it as much. Course, around here, we're talking about different economics -- far over $200 for weak clubs, closer to $400+ for the hot clubs. If I could get 8s & 9s for just $250, fuck yeah I'd be there

I'll pay more for the 8's and 9's. I can be as frugal as they come, but not in this case. Then again, I'm not looking for extras, just high mileage dances.

Follies is EASILY the best club I've been to thus far

"star rating doesn't tell the whole story" - yep! "Dushku Limit" - yep! This is definitely more and more true the longer I club.
To be fair... "availability" is also a factor... IMO there is a value in it requiring less effort.

I had $10 dances a couple weeks ago with a dancer I would rate a 9 and the dances were high mileage enough for JS69 to tell us we should get a room. Lol

But to answer your question, I have to be frugal with my dough so if the options are uhm with a 7 for $10 or the same with a 9 for $25. I'll probably take the 7. But I will admit I also did some VIP $25 dances with the same 9 I mentioned above and got a little more out of it but the overlooking manager was on duty which prevented more fun.
But I walked away thinking I could have played with her for three more songs if I had stayed on the floor with the $10 dances.

@Vikings- Follies is "easily" better than the Rhino in Vegas to you?

@Chandler- that makes sense, if there's 80 girls there, you're bound to find some you find attractive. Then again the few attractive ones might be taken though. Also I've read some Shadow reviews where he didn't even find one girl attractive enough to do dances/VIP with.

ranukam---> "@Vikings- Follies is "easily" better than the Rhino in Vegas to you?"

Hmmm, I thought Follies was relatively less attractive girls at lower prices and high mileage. Went to Rhino in Vegas a few months ago, seems like the polar opposite: sky high prices for everything, no extras, super hot girls. No?

Yes, better than Rhino, and it wasn't a difficult decision

Dude I'd bring a sleeping bag to Follies if I lived in Atlanta

It's like the clubs in the COI. Most dancers there are average looking at best, typically in the 5-7 range. occasionally there will be an 8 or a 9, but it's pretty rare. What packs them in at these clubs is cheap, almost guaranteed UHM. When ever I go I try to snag me a hottie and take her to VIP, but more often than not I wind up with a very eager (and talented) 6 or 7, but I still leave very happy. It's what separates the mileage hounds from those PL's that accept or even seek out LM dances.

Subra....yup....that's a great analysis of Rhino and Follies

@Subra- yeah the VIP is a ripoff at Rhino, but as far as the regular dances there, it's 20 bucks, you can touch ass, and some of the girls let you touch tits. Not terrible value for super hot girls.

I agree, I was surprised at how much I was able to touch. I spanked the hell out of a really really pretty girl for $20, with her screaming to do it harder. Agree, from that perspective, it's pretty fun. Surprised anyone on this extras-oriented forum appreciates that simple pleasure, I guess :)

I had to think for a moment on how to respond to this, and depending on the situation it still matters. I will give examples:

1. If I'm out and in a non-extras club, then if I'm going to get a lapdance I want the dancer to be hot. I want her to be at least an 8, and if there isn't any 8s around she has to be a 7, otherwise I'm not getting dances.

2. If I am in a club and getting extras, then I will certainly lower my standards. I thought of where I have been clubbing the most recently and that's Detroit. If I step into Flight Club or Penthouse I am almost always quoted 300 for full service, on occasion I am quoted less. When I step into BTs I don't even get quoted, I just make offers, which have never been over 200. I would certainly pay another 100 for better quality, but I find a lot of times when you get into the 8s or a rare 9, usually they come with an attitude or a bunch of rules. So, I'll take lower quality, less rules, less attitude on most days.

"To me dancer quality is the most important, and I would gladly pay extra for better quality.'

I agree.

I know understand how mid to low mileage clubs with ridiculous prices stay in business

^ They feature top-talent?

I would always pay more (a lot more if necessary) to get the hotter dancer if the service is the same. But if my choices are a 7 who gives full service, and a 9 who just gives lap dances, I'm doing a VIP with the 7 regardless of who costs more.

As for Follies, there are some 8s and they aren't hard to get. More importantly, the mileage is off the charts. Last time there I had six dancesrs, all my type, all 7-8, who would all do absolutely everything that I wanted in VIP. And I want a lot. It took me about 3 hours to line up these six girls. I don't think there's any other club in the country with that kind of service from girls of that caliber.

Mileage, attitude and service are part of dancer quality, not separate entities, at least for me.

A dancer with 9 looks and bitch attitude is not a "quality" dancer. A 6 with who lets me grope and has a talented mouth is a quality dancer.

Now a days, I always go for quality.

If I only have enough $ for a Bogarts type trip, I'd rather stay home until I can afford a trip to Penthouse or Flight Club.

Life's too short to drink (and get extras) with ugly strippers. lol.

I used to be a value shopper when it came to otc or itc fuk gals but recently doing a really quality blonde gal from Cali, x cheerleader I met at Ritz Houston really opened up my wallet. Dropped other girls was rotating, now just doing her. While she has BF (cuckhold unaware what she does....) she is very available, understanding, and willing. Lots of photo modeling too. Usually she will model some outfit, do lap dances, then to the bed. Its like having the SC come to the notel of my choice even though I will go to club occasionally for buffet, drinks. My advice - spend the most you can afford on the best one of your choosing.

Ranukam,

To me, with dancers in strip clubs, you've just got to take them as they are. You've got to accept that the ones who offer 'mileage' and do OTC have lived hard lives.

In our Sunnyvale no touching bikini bars you will find real young ones who don't do OTC or anything else like that. If you approach them as civilians, anything is possible.

I think that if you really want young hot looking girls who don't come across as world weary and case hardened, then you'll be better off if you start going after civilians.

My .02

SJG sites.google.com

Queensryche youtube.com

SJG- I do go for civilians. I currently have a civilian GF who I consider to be a 9. I just take the strip club for what it is, entertainment, nothing more.

Well then you might just have to accept the fact that the 'high mileage' oriented strippers actually have some miles on themselves.

The expert Pick Up Artists know how to go after civilians and be dating them in parallel, and these are young hotties.

SJG

Maybe I am just getting pickier as I age or maybe I've become spoiled. I can get 6s in my current locale for Follies type prices, but I just don't have any interest in paying a 6 or lower for anything. Honestly, I'd rather jerk off and call it a night That keeps me out of some clubs that I used to frequent in my younger days, but it is what it is.

Most of my OTC is with 8s, with the occasional 9. I pay a bit more for it, but to me it is worth it. I'd rather go less often and have fun with attractive girls than have a string of sub-par girls put my dicks in their mouths for short money.

7s are a bit of a gray area for me. I'm not above paying a 7 for p4p, but I need to have a real itch to scratch, the price has to be right and I need to have no better options on the table in order to pull the trigger.

I don't think Ranukam is looking at this the same way Rick Dugan is. I don't think he is seeking P4P OTC.

I believe he wants ITC fun, just fun, and probably not going as far as FS. But then OTC I think he wants it off the clock.

He has posted many threads which get to this issue that the dancers are not hot looking enough.

Right?

To me it sounds like the answer has got to be civilians. And no, they aren't sitting around in strip clubs waiting for when you show up with some money so they can play with you.

There are just some realities we have to learn to accept. Dancers at strip clubs are always to some degree PL's themselves.

SJG

Detroit clubs have spoiled me! If I'm not getting extras, it doesn't matter how hot she is. The internet is for looking. SCs are for touching, tasting, etc. Simple as that. This is why I will NEVER SC in Vegas. Ever.

I would have thought that clubs featuring super-hot air dances are nearly extinct (or should be). I understand that there are non-extras regions where they'll exist for some time.

Santa Clara County California is a non-extras region. The last talent agents who tried to challenge this spent several months in jail before they were even allowed to sign over their homes to post bail.

Still though, some good stuff in Mexican bars.

But for AMPs it is different. Happy Ending ( HJ ) is universal. FS is typically available for those how want it. But GFE-FS is not typical; it depends on how you approach the girl and how she perceives you and the chemistry between you and she. How you dress is a big part of this, as it is an Asian environment.

Las Vegas that bad? Everywhere?

I believe though that Ranukam mostly wants super hot looking girls, and that he wants that more than 'extras'. What he does with them out side is to be off the clock.

Usually big cities seem to have more super hot ones. San Francisco is better than South Bay. The corporate clubs like Deja Vu specialize in this, minimizing front room touching, as this makes it less GFE and lower average mileage in the booths and backrooms, and being able to higher lower mileage and younger girls.

I don't like Deja Vu at all. But Ranukam, have you tried these corporate chain clubs?

SJG

Yeah sjg makes a good point about the chain clubs. They usually have standard to uphold so they seem to be a little more picky who can work there. But also more expensive.

SJG- I haven't tried any Deja Vu clubs, although there is a DejaVu in COI, and I almost went there when I was in LA last. You're right that I want much more than extras, and I prefer to do it OTC, not ITC.

@gmd: "attitude" - totally agree, a dancer being a bitch ruins it

RE: @pensionking's post: most SC goes are not 'pros' and most don't venture far from home... so most don't know how much mileage can vary. The "regional" nature of the ratings reflect this. If all of the clubs in a 100 mile radius are all air... it limits your options.

As we all know quality is subjective.

Plus people distort and outright lie. 5s in daylight become 9s in the club when they're blowing you. The 4 who fucked you for $100 becomes a 7.

There is cheap and there is stupid cheap. To me paying a 6 or 7 for anything is stupid cheap. Its like driving a shitty car. If I want sex with a six or seven I'll go on a date. I go to clubs for 8.5 and above. I will pay for that. I won't pay 65 dollars to eat at chilis with my wife, but I will gladly pay 300 to take her to sonoma. To each their own, but I'd rather watch sports and have beers than pay a skank.

^true

About chain clubs, there is Deja Vu. I dislike this corporation because of how they ruined San Francisco, making all the strip clubs into clip joints.

But on the other hand, if one wants the hottest looking girls to be found, the Deja Vu approach draws them. And now in San Francisco it looks like Deja Vu has retreated to Centerfolds.

I've not been to the other chains, but as I know they are Spearmint Rhino and Larry Flint Hustler Clubs. Are the Penthouse Clubs a corporate chain anymore?

Then there is SF MBOT. Now this used to be something totally different, the mileage leader and with all shapes and sizes of girls. But today it is going to be something like a corporate chain of one, because its name is so famous that the name is worth more money than anything which could possibly be done inside the club. So extremely beautiful girls can work there, and make lots of money doing very little.

Ranukam, have you considered that you might like to do something like become a fashion photographer, be surrounded by extreme hotties that are still mostly civilian?

SJG

Jefferson Airplane, 1970 youtube.com

" And now in San Francisco it looks like Deja Vu has retreated to Centerfolds."

SJG, Deja Vu owns every single strip club in San Francisco except for Crazy Horse and MBOT... most assuredly, Hustler & Penthouse included. Centerfold's is the club that uses the brand explicitly, "Deja Vu Centerfolds", but there has been no transfer of ownership of any other club, nor any indication that Deja Vu has retreated from their intent to monopolize SCs in SF. The managers sometimes get transferred between the clubs -- I know one who started at Hustler, moved to Centerfolds, then Roaring 20s, then back to Hustler, but this is all at behest of Deja Vu, as they move their managers around.

"So extremely beautiful girls can work there, and make lots of money doing very little."

Again, most assuredly, every extremely beautiful girl at MBOT offers up FS. Alas, the girls aren't quite as uniformly beautiful as they used to be

"Déjà Vu Consulting, Inc. is a U.S. company that (as of 2013) operates about 132 strip clubs in 36 U.S. states, as well as multiple clubs in the United Kingdom, Australia, France, Canada, and Mexico."

en.wikipedia.org

So Deja Vu is a "consulting" company. This means that they tell you how to run your club, and how to make more money, and you get the benefit of using their name.

So here, we look on their own site, at their locations: dejavu.com

So click on "California", and for San Francisco they only list Centerfolds.

So to me this suggests that they have pulled away from the other San Francisco clubs. These clubs still may employ some of the same staff and management. But the relationship with Deja Vu is severed.

This is how it looks. Consider Roaring 20's and New Century, can you find anything on their own sites, not on TUSCL, but on their own sites which suggests that they still connect to Deja Vu?

Usually what Deja Vu does is prohibit most front room touching. So you have little choice but to let the girl sell you dances. This does not mean that maximum mileage cannot occur, but it is less likely too. The median mileage is lower, as it is less GFE.

On the other hand, and especially for Ranukam, my own experience with Deja Vu Centerfolds is that the girls are really hot looking.

BUt it is very hard to get physically friendly with them because it all has to be in the booths. So it is expensive and time constrained.

At a true dive, you could just keep handing a girl money and probably end out making out with her and going to FIV in the FRONT ROOM, where you are able to lead it. Then in the back room you could continue.

Not at Deja Vu clubs, there it all has to be in the back room and sold by song. Anything is potentially possible, at least in fantasy. But what actually happens is much less.

Now for our handsome dashing friend Ranukam, this may not matter since he gets them OTC and off the clock and bangs them and bangs them.

As far as MBOT, I know FS is potentially available. I know they quoted JS69 a price. But I for one am not every going to pay that price, even if I could afford it. The reason is that that is not the way to set FS up. The way to set up FS-ITC is to engage with the girl in front room GFE. Don't know if they do that there.

BUt again, for our friend Ranukam, this may not matter since he'll be fucking them for free in his own bed, and the MBOT girls are reportedly really hot.

I still say that at many of these places, FS-ITC is more of a fantasy. They offer it verbally, but it rarely happens.

I mean sure, if you are nice to the girl, and if you look nice to her, why not. I mean if you know how to present yourself, and if you look like you got money, she'll probably be happy to fuck you for free.

So what I meant was, a girl can work at MBOT and just because of it's world wide reputation, she can make lots of money without doing much. I know that FS is still potentially on the menu, but I don't think that much of it happens. I think it is there more to stimulate fantasy. The world wide rep is worth more than what the club could make by doing things which could get them shut down.

I mean if the girl quoted Js69 $1000, what would have happened if he pulled out $1000? Maybe they'd of been on. But maybe she'd of excused herself. Who knows.

I for one am not interested in finding out. It is not just the money, it is because that is not a good way to interact with girls, treating them like they sell sex.

SJG

SJG---> " I know that FS is still potentially on the menu, but I don't think that much of it happens."

Ah, I think I see what you're saying ... you're hypothesizing that the quote JS69 got was typical, and if it's typical, there's obviously very few guys willing to take them up on it, so it's more hypothetical than real.

I think the first mistake is thinking JS69's quote was typical. $1000 is not just an out-of-towner quote, but an out-of-towner quote, from the most mercenary of mercenary girls, who thinks she smells a rube. You can find FS at MBOT for $300 if you play you know what you're doing there, and not horribly difficult to get it at $350 or $400, at least as SC regulars. I realize that that is out-fucking-rageous compared to what the Detroit guys are paying (hell, compared to what guys in any other city in the country are paying), but this is SF. Not only are BJs and FS not a fantasy, but the place is practically an extras factory, with many girls refusing to do more than a couple of lapdances before expecting you to move to the private rooms or else they move on to find a customer who WILL do extras. It is exactly an extras club, it's what the girls make the vast majority of their money from, it's expensive, but not outrageously so for a socially awkward nerd in technology, especially for the quality of the girls.

No, I know that $1000 is not the friend price. I was aghast when JS69 posted about how he had approached the girl and asked, "how much for sex".

I would never do such a thing. That is extremely disrespectful.

But my main point is that it sounds like most of the guys going to MBOT are still not doing FS. So it is not like the old Market St. Cinema, or Pink Diamonds.

See, it is not sex for money which gets people busted. Very hard as that is just between two people, and no cop should ever be one of them.

What gets people busted is the open solicitation. That makes it very easy for LE to cut in and make a bust.

So usually the only people who ever get busted for prostitution are the low end providers. High end escorts very rarely have any problem. It is out on the street, and in places where girls are being open about promoting it.

So at MBOT, I suspect most guys get less than FS. True?

But that FS is potentially available is what keeps the money coming in.

I mean if the girl told JS69, "No, no one here ever does that!" then the fantasy would be ruined. So they just keep it alive. Anything is potentially possible, it is just very expensive.

So if someone really insists and butters up the girl with lesser dances, and then pulls out the big money, she will probably give him what he wants. For most young women nowadays it is not big deal.

But also, if she sees you as being high socio economic status and if you are nice to her, she'd probably be happy to come home with you and fuck you all night for free.

So my point is that FS-ITC is for most guys just an expensive fantasy, so not that much of it actually happens. And there may be some girls who would not actually do it.

Anyway, my point here is for Ranukam, that if he wants the hottest of the hottest, MBOT is kind of like a corporate chain of one. The money is made by the places world famous name. That famous name is worth more money than what they could get by doing more FS.

Ranukam, wanting the very hottest girls, but preferring to bed them OTC and for free, might find what he seeks at MBOT.

SJG