No James, slapping Putin in the face and telling him to stop the bullshit would be sufficient. What's he going to do, try to nuke us? Grow some balls, libs, bowing to everyone ain't working.
I lean to the right and I'm not fond of our president or his staff but I'm also tired of us being the police of the world. Facts are that when we eliminate a middle east tyrant a bigger problem rises up to replace him.
Carter turned his back on the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollahs took over.
It happened with Saddam and Gaddafi, the fault of Bush and Obama respectively. Obama and Hillary supported the elimination of our ally Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood took over but that was nipped when Egypt's Generals who controlled the army and took control back so Egypt is more stable than many of those other countries in spite of Obama's support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
It will happen again if Assad gets dumped, another radical Islamic state will rise up. Yes Obama and Kerry are weak Shangri La seeking fools but we should just stay the fuck out of the middle east. The only exception would be attacking ISIS. Russia no doubt wants to prop up Assad by attacking anti Assad rebels in Syria but they will also have to attack ISIS to keep Assad in power. Let the Russians get bogged down there, it's none of our business and we gain nothing by taking Assad down.
We have to eventually learn to quit repeating the same mistakes.
Another thing, we took Saddam down and supplied the new Iraqi army with first rate equipment. ISIS rose up in neighboring countries, Libya after we helped dump Gadaffi, came into Iraq, the new Iraqi army cut and run just like the old Iraqi army did when we invaded and now ISIS has all of the equipment we gave to Iraq and the money we left in the banks from Mosul and other cities they took over. So in effect we indirectly supplied and financed a terrorist organization that makes AlQaeda look like boy scouts. If we arm Syria's rebels like McCain and others want, eventually ISIS will have those weapons too.
I support the right on lots of things but our crazy mid-east policies have to stop, we're not making things better there.
Agree with londonguy and partial agree with TheeOSU (thats hard to do as a loyal MSUer!). We should not be the would police. These other countries (Saudi Arabia) just sit back and let the US take the heat.
Damn guys why should we do anything let the Arabs take care of it themselves. Egypt , Saudi Arabia , Jordan, and the rest have well over a million men in their armies they should be able to roll over isil like an ant hill if they chose to . Saudi Arabia has thousands of square miles in the empty quarter to set up refugee camps not Europe after all these refugees are their Moslem brothers. Money is not lacking in the Middle East why the fuck should we do anything . If the Russians want to get involved let them , remember this is the country that got their ass kick out of Afghanistan and a Syrian adventure will end the same way. For those of you that want to channel Ronald Reagan he was smarter than to get involved he pulled us out of Lebanon after the marine barracks was blown up an all he did in retaliation was to fire of a few rounds from the Battleship The Missouri mighty mo if I remember correctly.
History has taught us (well, those of us who pay attention) that military intervention causes more harm than good 9 out of 10 time. This is why I prefer Obama's foreign policy over what we'll get from Hillary should she win, and what we got from W. I know our gun loving nation loves sending our troops to their death for political showmanship, but from a policy point of view it doesn't solve anything. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan for two recent examples of how we made things worse by invading.
I know just enough about politics to make me appear pretty stupid, but I see I am in good company here. Syria was ripe for the taking, and without any governmental powers it should be pretty easy for the Russians to gain control. This reminds me of the 80's and Afghanistan. Our politicians will be circling around this in a few years, likely solidifying our position with Egypt, Saudi Arabia. And who knows what other western friendly nations other than Israel. I know Egypt isn't too pro-American right now, but Northern Africa is probably where our sights are heading.
Meat: I too am worried about Putin taking Syria, but do we want to get in to a shooting war with them over it? It will be a big mess for Russia trying to administer any kind of government, just as Afghanistan was a mess for both Russia and America. And Russia doesn't have the resources fight a prolonged war there. Neither ISIS nor the Taliban have any more love for Russia than they do for the US outside of both of our countries having supplied them arms.
Don't be too surprised, but I believe that Putin and Obama made a side deal at the United Nations last week . I watched the Bill Clinton interview on CNN the other day, and Bill Seemed to be implying that is what really took place at the closed door meeting. We really need to get out of the Middle East and let them sort it out themselves.
I too, lean right I think the current President is incapable of appropriately managing our foriegn affairs and the Current Sec of State is a fumbling Idiot. Kerry only looks marginally capable when compared with Hillary who is now proving that she cannot even lie competently.
Whether left or right, able or fumbling, leaders of this nation have been unable to resolve any issue in the middle east. My OPINION is that we cannot solve the problems because we do not understand the Arabic/Persian/North African mindset and we fail to account for the comprehensive influence of the Islamic political teachings. We think bluster is threat, that autocrats are unwanted, that people prefer democracy and that prosperity will resolve bitter differences. And those thoughts are simply not true in the middle east.
The people of the many (currently European imposed) political states of the middle east have over 3,000 years of history being led by harsh and demanding rulers who are NOT subject to elections. What stability that existed in the '60s through the '80s was the result of dictators in the middle east suppressing opposition and being propped up by the US, USSR or European powers. When Bush dumped Hussein, we set the stage for Islamic wars. When Barry Sotero backed Islamic terrorists in Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) he lit the fuse on a blast that is engulfing the entire area.
It might be possible to "fix" the ISIS problem. It might even be possible to deal with the Iranian/Persian Caliphate (the Islamic leaders in Iran). But the way we are going about it will only make the unrest worse!
dallas, they've been fighting in the ME for 5000 years. Why would anyone think an outsider like the US can 'fix' anything there? As you pointed out, we don't know these people very well. I don't think very many want democracy; they want a theocracy more often than not. They put religion above the rule of law (like conservative Christians in the US) and no law supersedes religious doctrine. This is a big problem for the US in trying to deal with the various governments in the region, just like it's a problem for gay Americans who want to marry in the bible belt.
You had harsh words for Obama and Kerry but didn't really say why you find our current policy of negotiation and sanctions as deficient. W's policy of sending in the troops was an utter failure in Iraq and Afghanistan as it gave rise to ISIS and the Taliban. While Obama isn't solving the problems, no one really can and at least he's keeping most of our soldiers from being killed over political posturing.
What would you do different if you were Sec. Of State or president?
Wrong Rockstar, Isis and the Taliban comeback happened during Obama's watch. After he removed our troops. What Obama doesn't understand is that war is always looking for him.
The Taliban started getting press under W. Reagan was actually the one to blame because he was the one who sold them weapons to fight the Russians with. Again, using force to solve political disputes gone wrong.
ISIS is indeed a new group; they are "radical" Taliban members who split off. Just like conservatives are blasting the GOP mainstream for being too liberal, some in the Taliban thought THEY were too liberal so they formed ISIS as an even more radical group.
America, Russia, ISIL, Taliban...you're all damn dirty apes to me. Kill yourselves off and it'll be easier for the lions to impose some order on this planet that you've fucked up. ROAR!
To mikeya You can believe what you like but the facts are right here ; George W Bush got rid of the Saddam Hussein regime which like it or not was the only counter balance to Teheran and the mullahs all of this ISIL & Taliban crap is just what has been going on for centuries . Obama has been trying to get us out of there and the morons who come on television to talk don't have a clue . If you like just go back and look at what Regan did after the marine peacekeepers were killed in Lebanon. He limited our involvement to supporting Israel & Egypt with a lot of money but until Kuwait happened the first George Bush stopped short of Baghdad if George Bush the second would have concentrated on the 911 terrorists and left Iraq Alone none of what is going on now would be happening.
I agree with rickthelion that the best policy for America in the ME is stay the hell out. I support arms/aid to Israel however, but they are not a threat to anyone who doesn't attack them first.
What turned the tide in the Afghanistan/Russian war was the U.S.supplying stinger missiles to the Afghanies.A shoulder mounted surface to air missile with pinpoint accuracy.Ruskies couldn't deal with gorilla warfare.
To Mikey's Where you see weakness I see intelligence and eventually we give the Syrian Rebels arms just like the taliban in Afghanistan they drive out the Russians and with your new president showing strength as you call it the whole cycle repeats itself and the new 911 attack comes from Syria then your strong president attacks Iran wow you really got going on
Obama could have destroyed ISIS in a month. He would rather wring his hands, hoping the world will help us. At least he gave China a stern warning to please stop hacking us,
Mikeya: Obama is already killing their leaders with drones; what more would you suggest? It's not like we can just send in 50,000 troops and they'll line up to be shot. Do we really want to put another war on a credit card like W did in Iraq? How well did that work out for us?
So tumblingdice, you believe that gorillas were fighting "the Ruskies" in Afghanistan but you don't believe I'm an actual suit-wearing lion from "tha NC". You are a truly thick hairless ape.
When my elite lion guerrillas rise up you're getting some wildebeest treatment. I may go wildebeest on your ass personally. So the next time you see a lion in a suit you watch yourself. ROAR!
to rickthelion we got some Seals that can balance lion balls on their nose after they make your elite lion guerrillas into a rug to put in front of the fireplace
I feel like blatantly political discussions are never productive especially when they come with headline tags like "Kerry's a fool!" or "Jeb Bush is an idiot!" If the TUSCL board is anything like the American public as a whole (and it appears that it is), about half of the posters are liberal and half are conservative. It generally leads to shouting matches, and no one ever changes their mind. To each their own, though, I guess.
"So tumblingdice, you believe that gorillas were fighting "the Ruskies" in Afghanistan but you don't believe I'm an actual suit-wearing lion from "tha NC". You are a truly thick hairless ape.
When my elite lion guerrillas rise up you're getting some wildebeest treatment. I may go wildebeest on your ass personally. So the next time you see a lion in a suit you watch yourself. ROAR!"
Brilliant!
"to rickthelion we got some Seals that can balance lion balls on their nose after they make your elite lion guerrillas into a rug to put in front of the fireplace"
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Or maybe just punched Putin in the face?
I love right wing armchair diplomacy. Especially when it basically boils down to "USA! USA! WOOO!"
Carter turned his back on the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollahs took over.
It happened with Saddam and Gaddafi, the fault of Bush and Obama respectively. Obama and Hillary supported the elimination of our ally Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood took over but that was nipped when Egypt's Generals who controlled the army and took control back so Egypt is more stable than many of those other countries in spite of Obama's support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
It will happen again if Assad gets dumped, another radical Islamic state will rise up. Yes Obama and Kerry are weak Shangri La seeking fools but we should just stay the fuck out of the middle east. The only exception would be attacking ISIS. Russia no doubt wants to prop up Assad by attacking anti Assad rebels in Syria but they will also have to attack ISIS to keep Assad in power. Let the Russians get bogged down there, it's none of our business and we gain nothing by taking Assad down.
We have to eventually learn to quit repeating the same mistakes.
I support the right on lots of things but our crazy mid-east policies have to stop, we're not making things better there.
Whether left or right, able or fumbling, leaders of this nation have been unable to resolve any issue in the middle east. My OPINION is that we cannot solve the problems because we do not understand the Arabic/Persian/North African mindset and we fail to account for the comprehensive influence of the Islamic political teachings. We think bluster is threat, that autocrats are unwanted, that people prefer democracy and that prosperity will resolve bitter differences. And those thoughts are simply not true in the middle east.
The people of the many (currently European imposed) political states of the middle east have over 3,000 years of history being led by harsh and demanding rulers who are NOT subject to elections. What stability that existed in the '60s through the '80s was the result of dictators in the middle east suppressing opposition and being propped up by the US, USSR or European powers. When Bush dumped Hussein, we set the stage for Islamic wars. When Barry Sotero backed Islamic terrorists in Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) he lit the fuse on a blast that is engulfing the entire area.
It might be possible to "fix" the ISIS problem. It might even be possible to deal with the Iranian/Persian Caliphate (the Islamic leaders in Iran). But the way we are going about it will only make the unrest worse!
You had harsh words for Obama and Kerry but didn't really say why you find our current policy of negotiation and sanctions as deficient. W's policy of sending in the troops was an utter failure in Iraq and Afghanistan as it gave rise to ISIS and the Taliban. While Obama isn't solving the problems, no one really can and at least he's keeping most of our soldiers from being killed over political posturing.
What would you do different if you were Sec. Of State or president?
ISIS is indeed a new group; they are "radical" Taliban members who split off. Just like conservatives are blasting the GOP mainstream for being too liberal, some in the Taliban thought THEY were too liberal so they formed ISIS as an even more radical group.
Rockstar, why stop there? Let's take our troops out of everywhere. And why give aid to our allies? The bad guys will just steal them anyway
When my elite lion guerrillas rise up you're getting some wildebeest treatment. I may go wildebeest on your ass personally. So the next time you see a lion in a suit you watch yourself. ROAR!
When my elite lion guerrillas rise up you're getting some wildebeest treatment. I may go wildebeest on your ass personally. So the next time you see a lion in a suit you watch yourself. ROAR!"
Brilliant!
"to rickthelion we got some Seals that can balance lion balls on their nose after they make your elite lion guerrillas into a rug to put in front of the fireplace"
Double brilliant!