OTC Friendliness

By OTC we be talking about sex right – not just dinner and coffee?

Damn - never mind - you did say sex in the first sentence

yes for sex.

There's a lot of factors involved and I'm a glass half empty PL - but I'd say 15%

I need another clarification – would that be with, or without, using The System :)

Not to hijack original poster, but has any had OTC free, not counting what's spent ITC?

How does a creepy PL act or look like? To me the creepy guys are the ones staring at a dancer like they never seen a woman before. They don't say shit or tip either.

never tried to get OTC sex, so i wouldn't know. but if i had to guess, i'd imagine the percentage would be pretty low. can't imagine most women feeling safe enough to meet up with random dudes out of an SC

In my club I'd say 5-10%. It's a very extras unfriendly club unless the dancer knows you really well...so the girls are not the OTC type by and large because they go to the dives in Harvey. None of my regulars do OTC except with very, very select people, and I don't think my current #2 does it at all. I've known her almost 20 years and she knows I'd be good for $$$ but it's never happened.

Papi, if we include those who run the System, Dougster will start seeing faggots all over this post. So no System run numbers please.

Ch3, that issuehas been addressed in a lot of other posts a few of which were somewhat recent. But basically the answer is its not happening unless you are at least young and handsome, and probably only if you are young handsome and rich.

Bavarian, I don't think it's necessary to define creepy. For purposes of my question it just means a guy who the dancer in question finds creepy.

GoV, if you start asking in the right way after making the right investment, you'll be surprised that the number of yes answers is higher than you think, maybe quite a bit higher. At least it is higher in a large number of clubs.

John smith-- I see

Ch3ll-- ranukam has multiple times

For $500 I imagine I could get OTC with half the day shift girls. Night shift would be lower.

Scheduling and logistics is another story.

I would say 20-30 % on average. Let's say 1 out of 4 to be certain in the clubs I frequent.

JS69----> "Ch3, that issuehas been addressed in a lot of other posts a few of which were somewhat recent. But basically the answer is its not happening unless you are at least young and handsome, and probably only if you are young handsome and rich."

I've managed it a small number of times, in my 40s, so definitely not young. It happens. That said, it's never REALLY free. That last time it happened to me, I took her to a pretty expensive restaurant and then bought at least a couple hundred dollars worth of drinks later on.

The one before that maybe doesn't count as "free", I've posted about her before, she was a real find. She was a late riser, left to her own devices she didn't like to wake up before 1pm, and she lived nearly an hour from the strip club. Put those two things together, and she was constantly late and getting majorly fined for not making her 11:30am check-in for dayshift. So we fell into this awesome pattern: if she was going to work two days in a row, I'd pick her up at the end of her dayshift on the first day, get a hotel room down the block from her stripclub, we'd party and sex that night, and at 10:30am the next day I'd kick her out of bed and make her do the walk of shame back down the club, where she'd actually make her 11:30 check-in. She started off charging me a nominal fee for this, and eventually dropped that.

JS69->"GoV, if you start asking in the right way after making the right investment, you'll be surprised that the number of yes answers is higher than you think, maybe quite a bit higher. At least it is higher in a large number of clubs."

I was going to say something similar. I really have no idea what the overall percentage of girls who regularly do OTC is. But the percentage who say yes to me is pretty high ... I think at least partially because I'm not interested in OTCing with a stripper I don't already know well (I'll already have invested enough time and $ in her that she'll be a CF before I ask her to OTC). As I've said previously, between the fact that she already knows and trusts me, and the fact that she knows the revenue stream is at risk, there are a lot of positive responses to OTC requests.

I was thinking about how to break this down, and I will break it down into 2 groups. For one thing, I think most strippers talk a good game about it but when it comes time to sink or swim a lot sink. Also my numbers are for night shift dancers only.

My 2 groups:

Higher end clubs, where extras are not common: less than 10%

Lower end clubs, where extras aren't common but happen: less than 20%

Granted, I travel a lot and am not able to build a rapport as well as a regular. Also I'm younger and fairly clean cut so I get asked so often if I'm law enforcement it drives me crazy - so because of those issues my numbers may be skewed a bit.

In my part of the world 5% would be a stretch.

It depends on the club, and it can change anytime. I have been at a few clubs where over 80% of the decent looking dancers offered takeout and other clubs where there it was in the low single digits. In my experience, if you know nothing about the city and the club, it's likely to be somewhere around 8 to 10 percent. If the club is known for good dances, the percentage goes up an additional half, to around 12 to 15 percent.

My favorite clubs over the last five years, all of which give very good lap dances, and many are known for ITC action, the percentage is around 18 percent. This percentage is skewed by 2 club in particular, and if I remove those clubs the percentage is around 12 percent.

"How does a creepy PL act or look like?"

--

Suited up. Usually in white polyester. Plies underaged girls with lots of alcohol Has stash of Wal-Mart receipts in wallet

Around 50%. This is much higher than others have claimed, and I think it's because I am handsome, suave and witty. Or is it because I club in Detroit?

As expected the numbers vary by club and state, but what I'm hearing is overall somewhat lower than I expected. Maybe I'm just a lucky shopper. Or maybe like Jack I'm handsome suave and witty.

I don't think that take out at my favorite club is very prevalent because I rarely hear anybody say that they were successful. The good lookers do so well ITC that there is not a lot of incentive to go OTC.

Shadowcat has a point here. Where ITC is prevalent OTC is not necessary unless you are a GFE guy like me that wants a more civilian type experience with a dancer. I have one set up for next week with a dancer who will be going to school for a new job in a town about 2 hours from home. (not a dancing job naturally)

It's interesting to see people's numbers, especially knowing where they are from.

1. Farmerart - he's mostly talking about Mississauga clubs, which I know very well. Extras are as rampant here as they are in Detroit which I have taken advantage of but strangely dancers there do not want to do OTC. On the other hand jackslash is talking about high OTC numbers in Detroit which I totally agree with so it just depends more on the city you're clubbing in.

2. Like others have said I've been in clubs before (almost always lower end clubs) where the OTC availability is damn near 100%. Those are usually clubs where it's hard to do extras (no private VIP) but the girls need to do extras to make money. Also it's probably somewhere where I am out of place and for some reason dancers look at me as trustworthy - example - I'm one of the only white guys in a Latino club...

3. As for you guys saying it's impossible in your club, in some cases you're right, but in most cases every club has a handful of girls willing to do it. Hints are: a girl complaining she isn't making enough money or not getting enough shifts. Being a savvy PL, it's your job to mention she can pick up money doing OTC with you and she doesn't even have to come into work! Try it!!!

sc, i'm surprised by that. I've had lots of dancers at your favorite club offer me a date to OTC for reasonable prices over the years . Main difference I have seen between your club and other clubs is that many girls weren't into the girlfriend date experience, and just wanted to rent themselves out for an hour in a hotel room. In many other places, I find the girls are very open to and some even prefer the pre sex date. However, for a variety of reasons, I never took them up on it so many could have been lying.

I think it depends on several things many of which have been mentioned. The one thing that has not been discussed is the time of the year. Down here in Florida the summer season is rough with many of the clubs not doing much business except for Thursday & Friday's when the locals get paid. As a result more girls are open to OTC and once you have done OTC with them it is much easier to get another if you so choose. Usually if you have done OTC with one or two girls it probably gets around and the other girls know this and makes it easier to get someone to GFE with you at other times of the year as well

Through the last 2 years at our favorite club, I have had 5 very good looking girls mention OTC to me....two of them indicating that the wanted simply wanted the privacy, room and extra time that a hotel room offered. While I agree that a club that offers consistent ITC has less incentive to require pursuit of OTC for satisfaction, I still think it is there and available with some of the better looking girls....especially once they know and are comfortable with you.

These percentages are kinda low. Are most of these women higher tier or lower tier dancers?

One other note to my post about the summer season. In palm Beach & Broward counties there are not so many tourists and visitors at this time of the year so the girls are interacting more with locals who tend to be regulars that they are familiar wth, which also leads them to be more agreeable to OTC encounters

@Ch3ll: "but has any had OTC free, not counting what's spent ITC?"

Since you qualified it, yes. The MILF I occasionally get to see absolutely refuses to take any cash for our little trysts. I buy her lunch, and pick up the cab fare when she rides, but she won't take my money directly. ITC, where we don't do anything but basically make out, she takes all I give her. Which admittedly still isn't very much, no more than about $50 per visit, and about a third of that is the club's cut.

@OP: If you're willing to spend enough, I'm betting the number approaches 100%. :)

For a reasonable price however, $100-300, I'd say roughly half in my area, even sticking to the "6 or better" criterion. Varies by club, of course.

Bubba267 & JS69 - While they might say they are up for OTC that could just be a ploy to keep you interested and spending ITC. I have struck out so many times that I hardly even try anymore. Why bother when I can get a BBBJ ITC with no hassle?

JS69----> As expected the numbers vary by club and state, but what I'm hearing is overall somewhat lower than I expected. Maybe I'm just a lucky shopper. Or maybe like Jack I'm handsome suave and witty.

Ditto. The percentages aren't "somewhat" lower for me, they're well lower than I expected. And yes, it could be that I'm very handsome and witty (cough), or it could be that ATFing them first leads to a far higher % of "yes". Perhaps there are more YMMV OTC providers than we think, and gaining their trust first gets you YMMVed in.

shadowcat---> " Why bother when I can get a BBBJ ITC with no hassle? "

If you don't enjoy the pre-sex partying, strip clubbing, and other carrying on before the sex, then no reason at all. Although even if you get BBBJ ITC with no hassle, isn't it a bit more rushed?

I have no idea. I haven't been asking.

SC.... you raise a good point. Talking and doing are two different things. However I'm naive and just egotistical enough to think they would follow-through. I'm too infrequent a regular with any of the previous mentioned 5 to think it was a "string me along" tactic. At the end of the day, I agree with you that it is hard to justify and pursue OTC when ITC is almost a sure thing most days. I would only consider it if I wanted a different, longer, "multiple orgasm" experience....and since you know me a little bit, I'm getting too old for multiple shots in one outing!

bubba: on SW, they (correctly) discuss how once a guy asks you for OTC, if you say no, your revenue from him will likely dry up anyway, so they discuss how to keep stringing him along to get money out of him, saying "yes" but always ending up busy or having to cancel for one reason or another (presumably, that way he keeps coming into the club to spend $ to in a vain attempt to keep her on the hook for an OTC that will never happen). So I do think, until an OTC happens, it's hard to be really sure. On the other hand, those are SW girls, and regular strippers might be less likely to play such games, certainly there are any number of girls who just say "no" outright

There's a big difference between the number who are open to OTC with most any non-creep and those who are highly selective and don't habitually consider it until the right circumstances come together. About three years ago, when I first began to seek out OTC, I quickly got genuine offers from many in the first group. But before long, I also grew a little bored with the predictability of it all.

Eventually, some in the second group warmed up to the idea, without any further prodding from me. One day, they'd ask if I had a room for the night and tell me they wanted to come "hang out". No mention of money for sex, but we both understood what was going to happen. It's the only type of OTC I look for anymore, although I'm rather passive about "looking", mostly just staying ready for when they bring up the idea.

About 20-30% is pretty close to my experience with the routinely OTC friendly group, but at least as many strippers are of the highly selective type. Most of my experience has been with 18-21 year old girl next door types who are fairly new to dancing, so that probably skews the percentages.

chandler---> " There's a big difference between the number who are open to OTC with most any non-creep and those who are highly selective and don't habitually consider it until the right circumstances come together"

That's what I was trying to say also, when I called it YMMV OTC. Some of the descriptions here make me think a lot of guys just meet a stripper and ask her to go OTC -- and he'll get a "yes" only from the girls who will do OTC with almost everyone, but I think those girls are just the tip of the OTC iceberg. I think the percentage of girls who will do YMMV OTC, when "the right circumstances come together" is far higher, but you have to put in some time to OTC with them.

Chandler & Subra those are good points which also should be considered the reason I hadn't thought about those things is that I pretty much hang out ITC with the same girls that I do my OTC with and when we do go out we generally have some fun doing things that most couples do. BTW I generally don't pay them for OTC but I do tend to be a bit of a spender when I go to the SC. Regarding the the posts on SW most of those girls are full of themselves and extremely bitter about their life so even though they are correct about turning down an invite generally means a lost customer I won't bother with a girl who doesn't keep a date once whether or not they are trying to string it out , flake on me once I'm done with that.

"The MILF I occasionally get to see absolutely refuses to take any cash for our little trysts."

George, That's interesting. Any thoughts why she will not accept your cash? I have no doubt you have exquisite bedroom skills and are a very handsome man, yet I'm still perplexed why she would turn down your help.

If you were spending large amounts of cash ITC, I could understand, but it doesn't like it.

You describe her as a MILF. Is she older? Say in her 40's? Does she view you more like a boyfriend or fuckbuddy?

@motorhead: She doesn't take it because she's "not a whore." She's also married, with four children, and reasons that, if caught, she deal with being a cheater, but not a prostitute, better with her husband.

As for the "very handsome man" supposition, NOT! As any who manage to be at Follies next weekend when I get there will no doubt be happy to attest.

As for bedroom skills, she has used the phrase "insane head" on occasion in reference to me, but beyond that, not so much. Apparently, her husband is no great shakes as the head game.

I believe she's 35 this year, but looks a decade younger. Absolutely no signs of drug use that I've ever been able to detect, either.

I doubt she considers me to be anything like a boyfriend. While we talk and cuddle, the get togethers are for sex, and when we're done, there's a brief rest, followed by cleanup, and we're out.

Interesting little tidbit, the very first time she tentatively agreed to meet, I asked her what kind of soap she uses at home. She was all like "What? Why?" The look on her face when I told her that coming home smelling of hotel soap might be suspicious was priceless. Made it pretty obvious to me that, even though she admitted to having a very occasional misstep, she'd never seriously planned a tryst. I sometimes think that's the precise point at which she realized it might be ok to meet. :)

if your willing to spend 500 i'd say close to 40- 50 percent. In my experience a lot of them need to know you a little and feel safe.

Our resident same night OTC expert, Rick Dugan, put the number at around 30%. I think this is at the typical club which has dance booths and 'mileage'. I don't think it needs to be $500 either. He said to look at escort rates on CL, and usually those don't go that high.

Where I am, as the clubs are no touching and many of the dancers are there to keep it in bounds, I think it is less than 30%. I would say maybe 15%, or a bit less.

They make themselves known, "I'm very service oriented" and "We should make an appointment" and "I wish I could do more".

And then as closing time comes, some of them really forget about all the rules in trying to set it up. DFKing people is the most definite way for them to make sure it goes off.

SJG sites.google.com

Now at the unadvertised places, the underground table dancing circuit which ran in SJ's Mexican Bars, the OTC friendly rate would be more like 80%. The ones in the core group, which I call, Beloved Latina Escorts, was the best. They could be very friendly in the main room too, and at $1 at a time.

tuscl.net

SJG sites.google.com

Stones youtube.com

sjg: this underground table dancing circuit is no longer a thing?

I believe it is probably mostly over. During its best days it was great and in San Jose and Gilroy.

Then LE set them up and pulled the talent agents over, each driving a van load of girls from SJ to Gilroy. It was a couple of months before they were even allowed to post bail.

Needless to say, this had a chilling effect.

Since Gilroy has closed most of the bars and San Jose has closed about half. But there have been other talent agents, like Anna who sells costumes in the local clubs. Their shows are more tame, but that Latinas like to do OTC has not changed, not at all.

The shows have existed in San Jose and at the place at Scott Blvd and Monroe in Santa Clara, since.

The main place where they are most likely to have such stuff is always the Red Baron, at White and Alum Rock.

But if I really wanted to find such, at this point I would suggest Watsonville, Monterey, or Salinas. There is also supposedly a Vietnamese Hostess Bar in Monterey, which is good. Sometimes in such situations Vietnamese and Latina are combined. Like their have been the Mexican style "Bikini Shows" in Vietnamese Coffee Shops. And then on the ground floor of the Vietnamese Lido Club on 1st St. in San Jose, is a Mexican Bar. But some time back they had during the day time a nude strip show. I found out that it had been one Vietnamese girl. So such stuff exits, but the main glory days of the bikini shows is over.

At the Hanky Panky, the way it always has been, is hot horny and friendly Latina's looking for immediate OTC.

SJG

Miss No Tonsels youtube.com

@Subraman,

Enjoy!

SJG

Interesting stuff, thanks!

@SamPepys,

Interesting story. Something similar happened to me at No 5 Orange in Vancouver on one of my debauches at that scuzzy old joint with trojangreg.

After buying a whole shit ton of $50 lappers from one of the dancers, I was chillin' at the bar with her as she poured shots of Jack down her throat (on my dime, of course). The dancer started commenting on the other circulating dancers and exactly what each dancer might permit on the couches in VIP. She gave excellent guidance to trojangreg and me.

No OTC was on the cards that particular night but greg and I found a couple of extra dancers willing to indulge in gropefests not normally offered by all dancers at the 5.

Place in Santa Clara where they sometimes have Mexican style Bikini Shows

google.com

Monroe and Scott.

The Red Baron was at McKee and White. Looks like it too has been removed. There are other small Mexican bars still around though.

Here, at Capital and McKee, this used to be the Mi Tenapa bar. They never had bikini shows to my knowledge. Not sure if this is still operating. But it is one of the few where they have not torn the building down.

google.com

But the Santa Clara show will be way way toned down. They want $20 per song, rather than $1 at a time. This really tones it down.

There had been one in this 7 trees area, on Monterey HIghway, in this shopping center. But I can't see it to tell.

San Jose really has been changed.

There had also been a bar way down on the Monterey Highway, like half way to Gilroy.

But if it were me looking, it would be Watsonville, Monterey, and Salinas. San Jose has been under constant up scaling pressure, and the new administration is worse than any before it.

There should also be one Mexican bar in East Palo Alto, no called Ravenswood, and one in Redwood City.

And then I guess Maria's club on SJ's 13th Street is still open. yelp.com

SJG

Red Baron was at McKee and Capital, clearly the building has been removed.

This is what redevelopment means, tearing down buildings and making new stuff to try and price out stuff they don't want.

SJG

20-30% sounds about right.

30% is from Rick Dugan, about the more typical strip clubs which have dance booths.

I'm saying it's about half that for the no touching clubs in Santa Clara County. Many of the girls are there instead of elsewhere because they want the softer core environment.

SJG

Guys it's way more than half.

I think it depends on the type of club. At the underground Mexican Bikini Shows, it was about 80%, and it was only that low because the talent agents were going into discos to try and find new girls with no stripping experience. If looking at just the core group of Latinas, it was 100%.

At the advertised Sunnyvale Clubs I will still stick with my number of 15%.

At harder core clubs, yes it will be higher. But also remember that Subraman is finding a greater willingness in San Francisco, at the alcohol clubs, the places where there is probably less FS-ITC.

SJG

Dougster what makes you say that? In dive clubs with nothing but fuglies and fat bitches maybe.

Just my experience across the board.

"There's a big difference between the number who are open to OTC with most any non-creep and those who are highly selective and don't habitually consider it until the right circumstances come together""

Amazing there are guys dumb enough to believe this.

This is a difficult question to answer. If I were to go with just asking dancers I’ve just met for OTC, the % would be 10 to 15 percent. If, on the other hand, I spend time cultivating trust and a comfort level, I would guess the percentage goes to 25 to 30 percent. Maybe higher.

It is difficult not to go in for the close when I meet some smoking hot baby doll that I desire. Plus, building trust with these honey’s is expensive and takes time.

I will say that taking time to cultivate trust and and comfort is worth it, it’s just hard to do when I want to go OTC with them immediately.

I’ll add that I would estimate the percentage of honey’s willing to meet me p4p on an OTC “date” (no sex) is well over 60%. The percentage of honey’s willing to share their phone number is 90% +.

I’ve learned not to pursue honeys just because they’re fine. Now, I only pursue the one’s that I really want to dive into. This limits the available pool considerably which is a good thing.

I assume that Dougster has had some extraordinarily bad experiences with women. That's the only way I know to explain his insistence that most strippers are whores and his denial that it is possible for some dancers to be highly selective of who they will meet ITC for sex.

Meet OTC

In the hood clubs maybe about 60%. In all other clubs, less than 15%. I've been offered as low as $60 from some girls in the hood dives for OTC but I'm not much of the OTC type of person unless I've known them for a long while.

Yes, I feel that when Dougster does talk about women, which is rare, he is trying to say that they are all motivated entirely by money and that none of them are people you should ever actually want to know.

And so then Rick Dugan's system, for politely setting up same night OTC, which must be predicated on the view that you can actually relate to and get along with strip club women, is something Dougster doesn't like.

I encourage Dougster to speak openly about his strip club experiences, as I hope everyone else also continues to do. Look at Mr. LDK. He puts it out as he sees it and lives it, even though many of us strongly take exception to how he approaches it. I respect him for being consistently straight.

I have found that spending time in strip clubs and engaging with the women has helped me to better understand what goes on with women who have never worked in such a capacity. Being with strippers has shown me that when women want to, they can really make things nice for you. So therefore, when dealing with civilians, I say that one should never accept less than that. Don't buy into their rationalizations or their manipulations. All they are doing is trying to substitute neuroticism for eroticism. Don't enable them.

SJG sites.google.com

I usually don't/can't read SJG's lengthy posts. However, the last paragraph of the above post makes a lot of sense to me (and no, I'm not high). SJG, do you have a new ghost writer.

Once you see how nice they can be and how much great GFE and FS they can dish out, simply because they are getting paid, you'll never settle for the typical bullshit that goes on in most relationships again.

SJG sites.google.com