Are all Liberals High?

45 comments

• jackslash

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  9 years ago

  I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more. [view link]
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  The basic difference between a liberal and a conservative is a conservative starts with a "big idea" and then collects evidence that supports that point of view. They reject evidence that is contrary because it's just noise to them. A liberal will collect evidence first, and then formulate an idea from what they've collected. Basically, a liberal will use the scientific method to make a theory while a conservative already knows what they want to believe regardless of what the evidence suggests. We see this in all the big issues: global warming, gay marriage, a woman's soverienty over her own body....there's no debate with a conservative about these issues because evidence contray to their point of view is irrelevant to them. A liberal looks at the facts, and then decides what's what.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  This liberal conservative stuff is stupid everyone,has beliefs and values that are a combination of both positions. Anyone who is so inflexible ideologically as to not realize that is just deluding themselves ( example being pro choice and anti gun control or against gay marriage and for raising minimum wage) I am not stating my own preferences I personally am a fiscal conservative and social liberal and most normal people are also a mix of both.
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  Jack and Rockstar, I will read your posts/link again when I'm in an enhanced frame of mind. For one moment in time there, I really understood liberalism. I almost sympathized. But now, in the light and clarity of day, I have no idea what I was talking about.
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  25, I agree that political views are complex and can defy easy classification. The "moderate" is particularly confusing to me because it just sounds like someone who can't make up their mind. Nonetheless, political labels have some usefulness for discussion purposes because we can't intelligently talk about millions of slightly differing political views. I also am a fiscal conservative and social liberal, and I think most people with that viewpoint tend to be libertarian.
• sharkhunter

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  9 years ago

  I dom't care for labels. I like to determine the facts and then make a decision. The problem is liberals already decided what the facts are even if they are wrong and you can't argue with someone who thinks they know it all. It's pointless. Several of the conservatives may think they already know the facts as well so a debate becomes more of a shouting match. On top of it all, everyone seems to have a hidden agenda. Obsama, higher taxes and costs for everyone. That way we have less people polluting the planet. The green agenda. The conservative agenda, not sure what it is unless it's we will do as we please. My way or the highway. Can't we ll just get long somewhere in the middle?
• Mate27

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  9 years ago

  I view liberals as maternal and conservatives as paternal in traditional senses. Both are needed to run a union because each party has its strengths, and of course with any strengths your going to find the other side of the coin which is weaknesses, too. Liberals have more of a motherly side to them always worried about taking care of things in a idealistic way such as taking care of children (education/healthcare/environment). Conservatives are more fatherly and concern themselves with business (jobs) and law and order (military/police). It's not a perfect system as nothing is (except Rickyboy's), however when you deal with as large of a beurocrat like we have running the strongest capitalistic machine ever made, there is always going to be fissures if you look close enough at the surface. It is due to capitalism and our constitution that keeps us on top of the world in many categories despite our politics. See the forest through the trees, because if you are really good at something I don't see entrepreneurs running over to China, Russia, or even Europe to make themselves successful. USA is ground zero for innovation because in other countries they won't allow you to do an idea unless they know for sure it will work, where in America you're encouraged to try even if you fail. This think tank is critical because Americans will always get it right after exhausting all other ideas, whether your Republican or Democrat.
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  Go 'Merica!
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  Meat, I do like your maternal vs paternal description. From what I can remember of that night when I felt like a liberal, I really did have a very strong desire to help and take care ofeverybody. Now that I think about it, this was a very maternal instinct that I was feeling.
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  @sharkhunter: You have it bacwards. It's the conservative mind that is infexible. Some examoles: Global warming. The scientific debate is over; the real issue is what to do about it. But most conservatives don't understand the science behind it, or just reject it. Gay marriage: All the evidence suggests same sex partners are just as capable as heterosexual partners of raising children successfully. Yet the conservative point of view is that it's bad for children. Trickle Down Tax Theory: All the examples we've had shows it makes things worse, not better, when the richer people pay less taxes than the middle class. Yet conservatives reject the mountains of eveidence and cling to the very few studies that support that economic theory. By definition, a conservative knows what he knows and will only look at evidence that supports his belief. By definition, a liberal looks at all sides. He make make the wrong decision based on what evidence he finds the most compelling, but a liberal won't reject contrary views out of hand. This is by definition; not someting to ascribe to you or me.
• chandler

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  9 years ago

  Getting high can help squares to loosen up. Some liberals could stand to loosen up, too.
• Mate27

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  9 years ago

  JS69-"Go 'Merica" FUCK YEAH!! We got it good over here don't we? Food always on the table, nice bed to sleep in, and an occasional chick to party with all without having to work slave labor for 60 hours a week. Work/life balance is great!
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  Rockstar, you claim to be open-minded and nonjudgmental, carefully considering all viewpoints. But in describing your views on conservatives, you are close-minded, judgmental, and refuse to consider their legitimate viewpoints. Try exercising some of your open mindedness to realize that not all conservatives are stupid, gun toting, uneducated rednecks, just like not all liberals are naive and lazy.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  JS69 you are right labels do help by abbreviating the conversation I do have libertarian leanings but this is an ongoing process the older I get the less I like the shouting and I wish the body politic was less absolute and more open minded in general
• Mate27

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  9 years ago

  2/3 Americans affiliate themselves as independent with no party attachment. To make blanket statements about party affiliation is alienating the majority. The odds are against you if you lean entirely towards being liberal or conservative. Better off saving your breath on this topic.
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  JS: I'm not talking about if conservatives are right or wrong; I'm just using the dictionary meaning of how they arrive at their conclusions. A conservative approach is to support a preordained belief because it "seems natural and correct" while a liberal approach is to derive what is "natural and right" with evidence. Lots of liberals and lots of conservatives are very bad at these two approaches...no is 100% liberal or 100% conservative. Conservatives are right in a lot of areas: fiscal responsibility, a less intrusive government, states rights when they don't trump civil rights, and an adequate millitary. Liberals are also right on a lot of issues: equality of access to opportunity, flexibility in interprting the Constitution, universal health care, progressive taxes... I never said I had an open mind or was non-judgemental. I am VERY judgemental, and I'm pretty set in my ways. Why do you think I have said I was openminded? Oh yes...the conservative mind formed that opinion without any real evidence.
• farmerart

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  9 years ago

  You Americans have this all figured out, it seems. It is not so easy in Canada. Like you we have liberals and conservatives in Canada. But we also have Liberals and Conservatives, as in the Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada. To make it more confusing there can be liberals in the Conservative Party and there can be conservatives in the Liberal Party. On some matters I am a conservative and on other matters I am a liberal. In my lifetime I have voted for candidates of both the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party. There are several other political parties in Canada as well but if I tried to explain all the nuances of politics in Canada I would explode the heads of you Americans.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  Gee farmer that's sort of what I posted only in a not so condescending tone
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  In America we've become far too polorzied by party lines and NOT by liberalism or conservatism. Anything Obama wants, Repulicans reject not because it's bad policy but because of politics; Obamacare is a prime example as it was a Repblican idea to begin with. Obama is the same; he should have approved the Keystone Pipeline because it makes sense, but he was playing politics instead of policy. I wish like Canada, we had a liberal and conservative party instead of forcing Democrats and Republicans in to niches they are then required to fulfill. We could solve 90% of our country's problems if Congress and the Senate had term limits, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  Rockstar term limits aren't the answer the real issue is money in the political process more money give you more acces more access allows you to make more money you have to realize this country was set up as a republic not a true democracy. In a republic a minority of influential folk determine the outcome of the political process Term limits only ensure that once a politician has become influential in the process he gets kicked out sort of throwing out the baby with the bath water.
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  I agree money is the root problem, but after the Supreme Court abolished spending limits, the only way to reign in the money is term limits. Unless you have a better idea?
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  It was always the problem folks with money always got around the limits with access The person with the solution to this proble is not running for election today so nobody really has a better idea
• Mate27

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  9 years ago

  I find it comical to see ordinary people waxing political philosophy like they know something about the topic, yet they don't know jack shit. It is what makes this country great to be entitled to your own opinion, but some state their opinions like facts, which is the comedy. This is why you should stay away from politics and religion, but do write about sex on TUSCL and claim that your "system" is the best for paying hookers for sex.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  Meat you are extraordinary and to paraphrase 4got brillant
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  Meat: Since our government is elected by the people, it's a good thing for people to discuss policies and the mechanics of how these policies are implemented. To say we're not qualified to elect our representatives is to say you don't support a democracy as the most moral form of government. Would you prefer subjecting yourself to the will of a dictator or king?
• saer

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  9 years ago

  I have a degree in political science, focusing on both political philosophy and macroeconomics. Does this mean I know what I'm talking about when I espouse my political opinions? No, because the basis of these things is philosophical, not logical. However, if I state an opinion and show empirical evidence via cause & effect that a policy is good or bad, then I can claim I know what I'm talking about.
• twentyfive

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  9 years ago

  Meat I never said we weren't qualified to elect our representatives I said that the way that this country is set up as a republic doesn't allow us to. A republic has us voting for electors (those influential folk I referred to in my previous post) who vote for the representatives who actually vote for the president (google electoral college if you want to know more)
• Mate27

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  9 years ago

  ^^^^ are you chiming in anout Rockstar's post? This doesn't seem to relate to my posts but more on his. Rockstar that is quite a spin you put on in reaction to my post, stating something about dictatorships, but none the less it is another example of why we live in such a great land when someone can have a platform to which they can express themselves. The saying goes we have "free speech", just the same as we have the right to ignore "free speech". It's true what you state about democracy, and it is also true that in our democracy we can try out all our options before eventually getting it right.
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  RS, your definitions are biased and absurd. Being a conservative does not mean that I follow some preordained belief system or that I do not reach my views based upon an examination of the evidence. I examine the evidence just like you do, and if I had time to debate you on specific issues it would be based upon my conclusions from all relevant evidence, not because the ghost of Ronald Reagan or some such thing gives conservatives preordained versions of what they should believe. But back to the original point of the post. No matter how you view these philosophical issues, smoke weed so you can understand others' viewpoints. I spent a night as a liberal. I truly felt like I understood liberalism in a way I never could before, and in many ways I sympathized. I'm sober now, and I doubt that my political views have fundamentally changed. But what did leave a lasting impression on me is that being a liberal wasn't nearly as bad as I would have thought it would be. For those of you who don't like weed or politics, I promise that my next post will be about sex with strippers.
• mikeya02

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  9 years ago

  Potheads know high people in places
• mikeya02

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  9 years ago

  Some Libs get paranoid when high, hence they tell you not to read what's in the bill, and lie about their e mails and what's on their server
• rockstar666

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  9 years ago

  JS, you say you're usually a conservative but I challenge that. What makes you a conservative? My liberal friends tell me I'm a bad liberal because I want to abolish the minimum wage, hate unions and don't want to ban all guns. I also want to keep the tax rates where they are now. But then I'm called a liberal because I think our government should fund abortions and provide free birth control. I also want to leaglize all immigrants who have no criminal record. I think the military budget should be cut 10% at least. So I'm really not firmly entrenched on either side of the aisle; it depends on the issue. I think you're the same way; you probably support gay marriage but think tax cuts for the rich help the economy. I did not come to these views over night.
• san_jose_guy

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  9 years ago

  Some forms of liberalism, and especially new age thinking, are rooted in a kind of escapism, and I think this is what you are finding in drugs. But liberalism and the hippie era are also drawing on transcendentalism, the idea that truth is found by using both empirical evidence and rationality. This is expressed in the writings of someone like Henry David Thoreau. I think this is the sort of thinking Rockstar is getting at. But so much of today's thinking is rooted in how people sided pertaining to the Civil Rights Movement and the War in Vietnam. This is when the lines were drawn. Unfortunately so much conservative thinking is actually reactionary, reacting in fear of liberalism or progress of anytime, and wanting to maintain existing social hierarchies at any cost. [view link] SJG [view link]
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  RS, I'm a libertarian. Here's what that means. [view link] Conservative Republicans and libertarians share similar views about personal responsibility and the role of government, with the differences being one of degrees. I have therefore always viewed a libertarian as a more extreme form of conservatism that what the Republican Party offers. Libertarians and liberals do occasionally reach similar positions on certain issues. However, those similarities are usually reached for very different philosophical reasons.
• JohnSmith69

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  9 years ago

  Wow SJG, those comments are brief, on point, and well reasoned. Are you high?
• san_jose_guy

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  9 years ago

  I don't go for Libertarianism at all. It's just an excuse for imposing social conformity to keep society stratifed. SJG [view link]
• san_jose_guy

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  9 years ago

  stratified
• DoctorPhil

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  9 years ago

  saw a guy in his fifties with a Che shirt on today at starbucks...of course. he's probably one of those canucks that goes to Cuba every winter, sits on his high horse, and berates real Americans. do these pseudo-progressive-liberal-marxists that don't even know why they think the way they do ever grow up? their uniformity and lock-step makes the Nazi's look like anarchists run amok. and for all the dumbass liberals playing along at home in your parents' basement that was a rhetorical question - the answer being "NO"
• san_jose_guy

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  9 years ago

  The work of deconstructing the values which were imposed upon one by family and culture is hard and long work. Unfortunately lots of other people go in for reactionary thinking, and Libertarianism, or ideas about who are and who are not the "Real American", are part of this. And then who are these people who want to protect their primary TUSCL registration, by using lots of aliases? SJG [view link] Gimme Shelter, latest tour [view link]
• rickthelion

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  9 years ago

  As I lion my real hate is for hunters, like that asshole dentist that shot Cecil. Cecil was weak and tried to placate you hairless apes by letting himself be radio collared but he was still a lion and he didn't deserve to be killed by a member of an inferior species. However, my sense is that most hunters are conservatives. So I suspect the conservatives will disproportionately get the wildebeest treatment when we lions rise up to kill you damn dirty apes. I suspect the liberals will, by and large, be willing to go with the flow when we lions take over.
• former_stripper

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  9 years ago

  I think both sides can be inflexible but have had more problems with liberals online than conservatives. Depending on the issue I lean either side. I'm more socially liberal but fiscally conservative. Basically I don't care what you do as long as you don't affect my life, my pocketbook, etc.
• jester214

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  9 years ago

  Rockstar, you live in a Fantasy Land. There are intractable people who ignore evidence all over the political spectrum. You also have the added hitch that evidence can be distorted, misrepresented and simply manufactured.
• Dougster

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  9 years ago

  Bread and circuses folks. Nothing more. Laugh at anyone who thinks there is any significant distinction.
• Mr_O

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  9 years ago

  rockstar, That's some funny stuff! And some actually think you are stupid enough to believe it! Good job!
• san_jose_guy

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  9 years ago

  Socially liberal but fiscally conservative? That sounds like Libertarianism. All that is is a way of telling people that they have to accept the existing social hierarchy as it is, and that if they don't feel right about it, then it is they who have the problem. Start going after a Libertarian and interdicting their cash flow and they are the first one's to threaten a lawsuit, and then to find out that they really have no basis. Libertarianism is based on a fixed concept of personhood. But for many people such personhood has never existed. You've got Medical Muchausen's by Proxy Syndrome, but there are also Psychiatric Muchausen's, Developmental Disabilities and Neurological Difference Muchausen's, and Delinquency and Salvation Status Muchausen's. And then there are just the old fashioned physical, sexual, and psychological child abuse. The survivors of such believe the same ideas about personhood and self-reliance that their abuser parents did, and so they have not even begun to fight back. And so they continue to be subjected to more abuse by Psychotherapists, Clergy, and the Mods and Admins of Online Recovery Movement Forums. Everybody wants to do well. They don't need someone lecturing to them about the self-reliance ethic. But our society is greatly unfair, and to its most vulnerable members, of course. So you've got white girls growing up subjected to abuses of all sorts, who then go on to become substance addicted stripper - escorts, who take advantage of their Sugar Daddies and trash hotel rooms and wreck cars and so on. The only way anything will ever change is if our society starts to understand that everyone wants to do well. People are not innately destructive. It is just that people have been taught to have children in order to exploit them, because this gives them an adult identity. So until this is stopped, things are spiraling downwards. Stopping these abuser parent is real simple. All you need is .50 for a .45 slug. But to get the government to do it, when our economy depends upon the middle class family and keeping up appearances, the government has to see that it has no other choice or people will do it themselves. SJG [view link] Stones, Washington 2013 [view link]