I visited my local strip club yesterday and decided to take a dancer I have never seen before for a VIP. Prior to going to the VIP, we decided on $200 tip for FS and BJ. I paid the $125 for 15 minutes of VIP. Once in the VIP room, she began to demand her tip upfront. I refused. She then decided to escalate the the tip amount to $350 for the complete package. By this time, I have had it with her. I became limp and just told her to give me a regular dance in the VIP. She refused and I walked out. She ran to the bouncer who demanded that I pay her $100 before leaving the club. I demanded to know why was I paying $100 after I had paid for the VIP room? I asked to speak with the manager. To my surprise, the manager agreed with the bouncer that I pay a $100 tip to the dancer. This was clearly a rip off. They threatened to report me for soliciting prostitution. I simply cut my loss, paid the $100, and left. I will probably not take my business to this club again. What would you have done in this situation?
I would have made the point about how much money this is costing them in losing you as a customer. For $225 they will never see you again. If you wanted to escalate, you could have threatened THEM with soliciting prostitution of course. As it is, you're out $225 which was probably the wise thing to do, all things being equal.
"...take a dancer I have never seen before f..." and the problem starts. As for the manager, remember she likely brings in more money then you would ever spend in the club. Equated to another business, she is the source of his money gotten from customers. Losing a single customer will have no where near the impact of losing a productive money producing employee.
If this is the norm for the club, it will fail on it's own. Let me ask, were you a regular?.
This proves why it is important in my view to research a club thoroughly before you go. Shit like this rarely happens in a well-managed club. But if I found myself with that dancer in the VI P, I would try to keep things from escalating, I might have offered the dancer one half of the tip upfront and the other half after services were rendered. In any event, if I found myself in your position, I would tell the manager to go fuck himself. Or maybe offer to call the cops for him to report that his dancers are prostitutes. No way the club is calling the police, it's a total scam. I would then do a review of the club, and publicize the name of the club and the dancer on this site and everywhere possible so others can learn from it.
“Just kill me. My life is nothing without her. Drive me mad. Let me be your sustenance. Eat my soul. You’re… you’re tearing me apart!”
Then start a shaking and screaming "iaaai! iaaai! Frogs...frogs...FROGS...get 'em off me!"
Shit like that throws managers off their game. Either they'll call the cops or just let you leave. Since they're letting hookers work there they'll just let you leave.
It's amazing how damn near ever ROB story you hear includes prepayment for services. including my own bad experience. I have since made it my policy to terminate the offer right then. I agree to call their bluff and offer to call the police yourself and then bust there asses in a review with as many names as you know.
Had thios happen to me and I pulled out my cell and said do not bother I will call the cops myself. Suddenly I was just asked to leave...which is what I was doing anyway.
Write a review of the club with names and descriptions of the ROB and managers. It will help your fellow clubbers from getting ripped off and hopefully take away some of their business.
as rockstar pointed out, you could have, and should have threatened to report them for soliciting prostitution. But seriously, why would you pay $125 for 15 mins in vip? i could get 2 hours during the day at my local club for that
Obviously we have to draw the line at coercion, be it physical, or of any other type. We cannot be targets for such people. If nothing happened in the VIP Room, then you should be able to leave with all of your money.
Yelp reviews have all sorts of stories about such coercion, all over the country, but heavy in Las Vegas.
Too many of these places are clip joints, and rip off joints are the next step beyond that. We need to forcefully stand up to such places, shut them down, and drive their bouncers and owners into the ground. I threatened a prominent Las Vegas place with just that.
The other issue here is just the lack of established rapport, courting, and physical intimacy with the dancer before a VIP session was even talked about.
After reading all these posts, I'm changing my mind. You shouldn't pay the money just to get out of the situation. You're being robbed and need to stand up for justice!
Ujay, I read your review. The place was Delilah's Den in Toms River, NJ, I believe. I have several comments:
1. Why would you rate your club experience with 5s and 6s? Sounds like it should have been straight 1s.
2. Why would you go back when your August review of the same club warned of ROBs also?
3. The place sounds mobbed up. Remember, you're seeking illegal playtime (essentially) from criminals. Drug deals go bad every day, too. Getting out was the right move. Threatening to call the cops on the club is a risky bluff that might get you smacked or worse. Your face is worth more than the $100 you spent to get away. In retrospect, I wonder what would have happened if you had tipped the bouncer to fire the crazy-ass ROB bitch, pointing out that you are a regular and know how the game is usually played (if he and the dancer are running the scam together, that wouldn't work).
4. Our only recourse as consumers is to bad mouth the club, tank their ratings and spend our money elsewhere.
I would be more than happy to get involved in these rip off situations. I am not out there in that locale, not yet. But I am not afraid of bully bouncers, organized crime, or corrupt cops. I have closed many businesses locally and I have gotten dozens of people fired from their jobs.
No, you cannot give into extortion for money. I am hoping that we can learn the name and location of this club, as I would be happy to make a first email contact with them.
A place offering nice service, at whatever "mileage" level, should never have to be like this.
But likewise, I would never agree to anything with a dancer until we have a substantial level of rapport established. This is best when it includes a front room make out session. If she and I can do that, everything will work just fine. I know that this standard would have screened this dancer out early on.
This approach has always worked for me at AMPs. In San Francisco you really can come on to the girls in the front lobby, because since they don't fear LE, they don't fear being too conspicuous.
I'm sorry, but I'm a little hazy on part of this story. Did she demand her tip before your junk was hanging in the air or after? I only ask because you mentioned going limp, yet you claim that she asked for the tip right away - a bit confusing.
Anyway, if it was before, then I would have just walked out of the room and, if necessary, the club. The problem with some guys is that they too emotionally invested in the $125 they just put down for the room, but sometimes you have to know when to just walk out and cut your losses.
If she had already started performing, then it is a tougher call. Did she start jerking you off, or blowing you, and THEN try to hold you up? I might have paid in that circumstance, even though I was being robbed. Idk, depends on a lot of things.
Sorry, I am all for truth, justice and the american way, too. However, discretion is the better part of valor and we are talking about Jersey here. Let me say again JERSEY! Ujay said they locked the door and wouldn't let him leave. What one might do "in theory" and what he chose to do "in the heat of the moment" are two very different things. Better to live to fight another day, I say. Ever been in Vegas in the 70s or 80s? or Chicago?? or JERSEY?!!? Some guys you just don't fuck with, Monday morning quarterbacking bravado aside. Anybody that isn't a little afraid of organized crime or corrupt cops is begging for a beat down.
I repeat -- bad mouth the club by name, tank their ratings, spend your money and time elsewhere.
pensionking - I agree with busting them in the text of the review but giving inflated or deflated ratings based upon your bad experience does not benefit the rest of the users. If the club is gorgeous let everybody know it and give it a 10 for atmosphere. If the dancers are ho hum give it a 5 or 6 for dancer quality. If you got fucked financially give it a 1 in value.
The ratings are fucked up enough already with guys over rating a club just because some girl touched his pee pee for the first time.
Well – hindsight is 20/20 of course – going forward it should be your policy to tell the dancer b/f hand that you only pay after you are done. As shadow mentioned – it seems that the “pay me first” is a ROB strategy – a “good” dancer is fine w/ being paid after services (especially after you have already spent $125 room fee).
I would not have paid – I’ve been in a few situations and held my ground but in my case I was never asked to pay up - it was basically the dancer huffing and puffing and me just stating my case to the manager and nothing coming of it.
As others have mentioned – there is no proof that you solicited - all one would have to say if they did call the cops; which they probably wouldn’t – is that you told the dancer you would pay her for VIP after she was done b/c you don’t pay up front and that you decided to call it off when she got a bad attitude and her demanding her payment upfront (b/f she rendered services). You would not have to admit or say you asked for anything more than just VIP dances.
@Shadowcat: The ratings are fucked up enough already with guys over rating a club just because some girl touched his pee pee for the first time. LOL Totally agree!
Ratings ARE over-inflated. Every club is like 3 or 3-1/2 stars -- I can't tell good from bad. What we need to do is DEFLATE the ratings when PLs have bad experiences that are not properly handled by management. One crazy stripper -- NBD. On the other hand, ROB strippers supported blindly by bouncers and managers -- that is entirely different. I know, realistically, one bad rating isn't going to move the needle on a club's overall ranking -- but it is a start.
If a super hot stripper robs me in a clean, well appointed club -- should the review say Dancer 10, Value 1, Atmosphere 10? That is a 21 divided by 3 = 7. That's 3-1/2 stars. For me, if a club rips off people often, an overall rating of 3-1/2 stars is too high -- I don't care how hot the girl or how nice the club is. Anyway, I wish we could give 2 rating scores for Dancer (one for Dancer Hotness and one for Dancer Experience). That would clear things up. That would differentiate betweeen: VHM hot dancers, VHM mediocre dancers and low mileage hot dancers. Don Quixote, I guess.
Just glad Ujay got out safe at the end of the day.
I would like to thank this community for listening to my problem. You told me to post on every site what happened to me. Well, I posted my experience here and also on stripclublist.com. Sure enough, the general manager left a message on stripclublist.com for me to call and speak with him. When I called and spoke with him, he promised to refund my $100, and asked to keep my business. He informed me that the club is not in the business of litigating what goes on behind close doors. I had already paid for the VIP and this is where their obligation to the parties end. Some of these bouncers do not see the big picture and connive with the strippers. Thanks to all. Always, let your voices be heard.
Papi_Chulo is correct, there is no evidence that the customer did anything outside the law. Can't be intimidated by such stuff. But also, it is unworkable for the club management to try and get in between the dancer and the customer and to be fixing it for them. Papi is also correct that the thing to do, if you don't want to pay up front, is to make that clear with the dancer in the initial negotiations.
But we cannot tolerate extortion by bouncers, no matter how stupid they are, or how the dancers are pulling their strings. If I were just a bystander to this episode in the club, I would have placed the bouncer under citizen's arrest and ordered him to sit down in the floor, while I left the club to call police.
Once I was walking down the sidewalk past a disco and I saw bouncers getting belligerent. I asked to speak to the owner. He came out. I asked him if I needed to call the police as things seemed to be getting out of hand. That was enough to solve the problem.
Remember LDK's thread about bouncers, and I denounced the tactic of tipping them because it results in corruption and in conflicts like this. It is giving them more power than they should have.
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
You don't really know what these bouncers are doing, where the money will go, or what financial relationship they may have with the dancer already.
The reason that I have always paid all money up front is to eliminate these sorts of situations. That is, I would rather take the risk of someone taking my money, and then not delivering, than have someone trying to shake me down for money.
Besides, I would never agree to anything until I felt that I had established some personal rapport with the dancer.
I still say that the prices are just way too high, too much money going to the club, and that this is compounding the problem. These places are clip joints. If you just had to deal with the dancer, the risks would be much less.
AMP pricing for a full hour, including all costs, run from $160 to $220 max. I have usually been able to keep it at $160. In an hour you can make it all real nice. Going to the higher number would be okay if it included MSOG, as that gives you lots of nice talk time.
Never have I offered a woman money for sex, or for anything like sex. No reason to. I just make it clear what I want to do, or I even just start to make it happen. She will ask for what she wants. When they don't ask, I still give them what is expected at the end anyway.
Generally if a dancer offers me something, like a dance, my answer will be a polite no. Really it will be a diversion to talking, getting to know each other, or sitting at her stage, or something like that. I want to be the one who drives it. This means the initiative has to come from me instead of from her. Girls respond well when they can see that they are being interviewed and courted.
Thank you ujay for sharing this story, and I am also glad that you are okay.
I know many people have issues with this Club Paradise in Rialto CA. The idea of thick Latina's and anything goes appeals to me. But there are negative things in reviews, like that they use male drink servers and they do an aggressive drink hustle, and they have messed up VIP Room sessions. That stinks. But what really concerns me is a Yelp account of a bouncer trying to block someone's car in the parking lot, saying that they owed money. Again, this cannot be tolerated. If I were there and I saw this, I would have acted. I would have acted at that time, and then in the days and weeks which followed I would have made sure that the club owner came to regret the situation and knew that if such things continued that he would be out of business.
Club managers probably do not want reports of illegal activity being reported online by their customers. That could be a potential start of a police investigation that could hurt the club or cause the manager to fire dancers or get arrested costing money and/or jail time.
I would never agree to time like that in a VIP room with someone I didn't already know well enough to see her outside the club. Of course if I knew her that well, I would never agree to pay inside a club. I'm not sure what I would do. Possibly the same thing you did. I don't have sex with complete strangers so I do not picture myself ever getting into a situation. However I could picture myself getting into a situation where a dancer demanded extra money because she decided on her own to provide services I never asked for.
There are many douchebag customers that don’t pay for services rendered and most club employees have had to deal w/ these types of bad customers – meaning that often times when a dancer bitches about payment; the club employees may be believe her shit even if she is crying wolf.
It comes down to a “he said” “she said” situation – and a custy needs to be able to argue his point and whom ever argues their point better will often win the argument (since there really isn’t any evidence).
Club managers also know some of these dancers can be real hos but again the custy needs to know how to argue his point so he can give the manager reason enough to take the custy’s side.
In the end – it may come down to the custy just having the balls to stand their ground and not pay up and then be ok w/ being asked to leave the club.
The situation sucks no doubt – but many of us that have SCed enough have had situations similar – one just needs to learn the game and be prepared to hold your ground and know how to hold your ground against some of these lowlifes in the clubs.
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If this is the norm for the club, it will fail on it's own. Let me ask, were you a regular?.
I would stare at the manager and say...
“Just kill me. My life is nothing without her. Drive me mad. Let me be your sustenance. Eat my soul. You’re… you’re tearing me apart!”
Then start a shaking and screaming "iaaai! iaaai! Frogs...frogs...FROGS...get 'em off me!"
Shit like that throws managers off their game. Either they'll call the cops or just let you leave. Since they're letting hookers work there they'll just let you leave.
As for the threat, it was likely an empty one. Unless they had video or audio evidence, which would incriminate them as well as you.
You should have walked and let them try to stop you. Then get them for assault.
Or firebomb the place.
Yelp reviews have all sorts of stories about such coercion, all over the country, but heavy in Las Vegas.
Too many of these places are clip joints, and rip off joints are the next step beyond that. We need to forcefully stand up to such places, shut them down, and drive their bouncers and owners into the ground. I threatened a prominent Las Vegas place with just that.
Here, I talk about this in the context of a thread about excessive new ways to extract money:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
The other issue here is just the lack of established rapport, courting, and physical intimacy with the dancer before a VIP session was even talked about.
SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/
Clapton, full concert
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/
1. Why would you rate your club experience with 5s and 6s? Sounds like it should have been straight 1s.
2. Why would you go back when your August review of the same club warned of ROBs also?
3. The place sounds mobbed up. Remember, you're seeking illegal playtime (essentially) from criminals. Drug deals go bad every day, too. Getting out was the right move. Threatening to call the cops on the club is a risky bluff that might get you smacked or worse. Your face is worth more than the $100 you spent to get away. In retrospect, I wonder what would have happened if you had tipped the bouncer to fire the crazy-ass ROB bitch, pointing out that you are a regular and know how the game is usually played (if he and the dancer are running the scam together, that wouldn't work).
4. Our only recourse as consumers is to bad mouth the club, tank their ratings and spend our money elsewhere.
No, you cannot give into extortion for money. I am hoping that we can learn the name and location of this club, as I would be happy to make a first email contact with them.
A place offering nice service, at whatever "mileage" level, should never have to be like this.
But likewise, I would never agree to anything with a dancer until we have a substantial level of rapport established. This is best when it includes a front room make out session. If she and I can do that, everything will work just fine. I know that this standard would have screened this dancer out early on.
This approach has always worked for me at AMPs. In San Francisco you really can come on to the girls in the front lobby, because since they don't fear LE, they don't fear being too conspicuous.
SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
Anyway, if it was before, then I would have just walked out of the room and, if necessary, the club. The problem with some guys is that they too emotionally invested in the $125 they just put down for the room, but sometimes you have to know when to just walk out and cut your losses.
If she had already started performing, then it is a tougher call. Did she start jerking you off, or blowing you, and THEN try to hold you up? I might have paid in that circumstance, even though I was being robbed. Idk, depends on a lot of things.
In any event, we live and learn.
I repeat -- bad mouth the club by name, tank their ratings, spend your money and time elsewhere.
The ratings are fucked up enough already with guys over rating a club just because some girl touched his pee pee for the first time.
I would not have paid – I’ve been in a few situations and held my ground but in my case I was never asked to pay up - it was basically the dancer huffing and puffing and me just stating my case to the manager and nothing coming of it.
As others have mentioned – there is no proof that you solicited - all one would have to say if they did call the cops; which they probably wouldn’t – is that you told the dancer you would pay her for VIP after she was done b/c you don’t pay up front and that you decided to call it off when she got a bad attitude and her demanding her payment upfront (b/f she rendered services). You would not have to admit or say you asked for anything more than just VIP dances.
Ratings ARE over-inflated. Every club is like 3 or 3-1/2 stars -- I can't tell good from bad. What we need to do is DEFLATE the ratings when PLs have bad experiences that are not properly handled by management. One crazy stripper -- NBD. On the other hand, ROB strippers supported blindly by bouncers and managers -- that is entirely different. I know, realistically, one bad rating isn't going to move the needle on a club's overall ranking -- but it is a start.
If a super hot stripper robs me in a clean, well appointed club -- should the review say Dancer 10, Value 1, Atmosphere 10? That is a 21 divided by 3 = 7. That's 3-1/2 stars. For me, if a club rips off people often, an overall rating of 3-1/2 stars is too high -- I don't care how hot the girl or how nice the club is. Anyway, I wish we could give 2 rating scores for Dancer (one for Dancer Hotness and one for Dancer Experience). That would clear things up. That would differentiate betweeen: VHM hot dancers, VHM mediocre dancers and low mileage hot dancers. Don Quixote, I guess.
Just glad Ujay got out safe at the end of the day.
But we cannot tolerate extortion by bouncers, no matter how stupid they are, or how the dancers are pulling their strings. If I were just a bystander to this episode in the club, I would have placed the bouncer under citizen's arrest and ordered him to sit down in the floor, while I left the club to call police.
Once I was walking down the sidewalk past a disco and I saw bouncers getting belligerent. I asked to speak to the owner. He came out. I asked him if I needed to call the police as things seemed to be getting out of hand. That was enough to solve the problem.
Remember LDK's thread about bouncers, and I denounced the tactic of tipping them because it results in corruption and in conflicts like this. It is giving them more power than they should have.
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
You don't really know what these bouncers are doing, where the money will go, or what financial relationship they may have with the dancer already.
The reason that I have always paid all money up front is to eliminate these sorts of situations. That is, I would rather take the risk of someone taking my money, and then not delivering, than have someone trying to shake me down for money.
Besides, I would never agree to anything until I felt that I had established some personal rapport with the dancer.
I still say that the prices are just way too high, too much money going to the club, and that this is compounding the problem. These places are clip joints. If you just had to deal with the dancer, the risks would be much less.
AMP pricing for a full hour, including all costs, run from $160 to $220 max. I have usually been able to keep it at $160. In an hour you can make it all real nice. Going to the higher number would be okay if it included MSOG, as that gives you lots of nice talk time.
Never have I offered a woman money for sex, or for anything like sex. No reason to. I just make it clear what I want to do, or I even just start to make it happen. She will ask for what she wants. When they don't ask, I still give them what is expected at the end anyway.
Generally if a dancer offers me something, like a dance, my answer will be a polite no. Really it will be a diversion to talking, getting to know each other, or sitting at her stage, or something like that. I want to be the one who drives it. This means the initiative has to come from me instead of from her. Girls respond well when they can see that they are being interviewed and courted.
Thank you ujay for sharing this story, and I am also glad that you are okay.
I know many people have issues with this Club Paradise in Rialto CA. The idea of thick Latina's and anything goes appeals to me. But there are negative things in reviews, like that they use male drink servers and they do an aggressive drink hustle, and they have messed up VIP Room sessions. That stinks. But what really concerns me is a Yelp account of a bouncer trying to block someone's car in the parking lot, saying that they owed money. Again, this cannot be tolerated. If I were there and I saw this, I would have acted. I would have acted at that time, and then in the days and weeks which followed I would have made sure that the club owner came to regret the situation and knew that if such things continued that he would be out of business.
SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/
Clapton and Sheryl Crow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkXjLA9Y…
You painted a crime scene that is not appealing to me like it never happened.
Come on, man. I'm not stupid. You missed something in your story.
I would never agree to time like that in a VIP room with someone I didn't already know well enough to see her outside the club. Of course if I knew her that well, I would never agree to pay inside a club. I'm not sure what I would do. Possibly the same thing you did. I don't have sex with complete strangers so I do not picture myself ever getting into a situation. However I could picture myself getting into a situation where a dancer demanded extra money because she decided on her own to provide services I never asked for.
It comes down to a “he said” “she said” situation – and a custy needs to be able to argue his point and whom ever argues their point better will often win the argument (since there really isn’t any evidence).
Club managers also know some of these dancers can be real hos but again the custy needs to know how to argue his point so he can give the manager reason enough to take the custy’s side.
In the end – it may come down to the custy just having the balls to stand their ground and not pay up and then be ok w/ being asked to leave the club.
The situation sucks no doubt – but many of us that have SCed enough have had situations similar – one just needs to learn the game and be prepared to hold your ground and know how to hold your ground against some of these lowlifes in the clubs.