Interesting how the liberals (such as Alutard) just love the freedom of speech when it is something they agree with, but hate it and think the speaker should be silenced when it is opposite of their opinion.
I think that fiasco is an important lesson to all who want a moderated board.
I have no issue with gay people but if someone does dislike it they have the right to speak their mind. This society is getting far too politically correct over everything.
Deogol, I don't see how this is a freedom of speech issue. A&E made a business decision to suspend production, as is their right. Plenty of people on both the left and the right threaten boycotts. That is their right. I actually haven't heard a threat of a boycott. It seems to me that A&E is scared they'll lose advertisers. The want to make money. Isn't that their right?
Freedom of speech is really about the government not interfering with speech. Not individual people saying i don't want to hear what you have to say or, more strongly, I so dislike what you say that I won't buy anything from folks that advertise in your program.
I have more problem with folks who try to shut down strip clubs by getting the government to pass restrictive ordinances. They have the right to say what they say, but a good government would say "hey, free country. If the club is doing something that interferes with the rights of others, like loud music at 1am or strippers giving out blowjobs in front of the neighborhood kids, what thay do is their business. We're staying out of it".
Of course, it *would* be the right of that prudish strip club hater to avoid buying anything from companies associated with the club owner (if he has other business ventures). Also their right to organize a boycott of those other business ventures. Free country, don't ya know.
Your not lying about shades of grey alucard. I don't know what duck dynasty fiasco your talking about (I don't watch tv), but everyone has been like that, not just liberals. Take a black republican (bear with me folks) and t ake him nearby a kkk rally, and watch his belief in freedom of speech go right out the window.
Zipman, although I enjoyed your attempt at changing the subject to government freedom of speech, I do think AE needs to know they are damaging themselves.
@esta --duck dynasty is a show about a Louisiana family that makes duck calls. Don't know the appeal since i don't watch much TV either.
One of the Duck Dynasty stars made remarks about homosexuality being a sin. Network suspended him. Alucard is probably right -- probably has a contract that says he can't say stuff that might lose A&E advertisers.
Still don't see it as freedom of speech. If the guy doesn't like A&E's rules he can try to find somebody else that will produce his show. Should the government force A&E to film his show when they don't want to?
But deogol...if A&E is damaging themselves that is their right to make a bad business decision. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head saying "you can't say that". A&E must think the things Mr. Duck Dynasty is saying damage their financial interests. If they're wrong they'll lose money. Kinda the way capitalism works.
I wasn't changing the subject. I think you're confused about freedom of speech.
If A&E is self-destructing, it's viewers have incentive to see that it doesn't - especially if they enjoy its programming.
IOW, they can say keep Phil as much as anyone else (including the LGTB groups - which demanded A&E do something about the show.)
I am sure A&E was happy keeping the money coming until the LGTB group put out their press release.
And dude, I hate to say it, but you are confused about freedom of speech. It is a right enshrined in our culture, not just in the constitution as a protection against government.
"Freedom Of Speech" refers to the protection of free speech from government censorship. It doesn't mean that if a producer thinks one of his actors has said something inappropriate that he can't or shouldn't fire him.
Zipman isn't confused at all. His analysis on government suppression of speech and the First Amendment was right on the money. LGBT groups can threaten a private company all they want with boycotts and sympathetic groups that agree with bigoted views can counter with vows to buy more shit from those sponsors. But the government can't suppress free speech. Can anyone say anything at any time? No, no individual right is absolute. But freedom of speech (from government interference) is one of the fundamental rights enshrined in the Constitution and an ingrained part of our culture. And because it is a fundamental right, we don't put them up to a vote to see if the misguided masses will allow a minority to speak (or take a job, or rent an apartment, or use interstate transportation, etc.)
One thing about this is we are also only hearing a part of the story so far. I mean many reports goat people into saying things.
Now honestly I don't think this guy was goated into saying anything. Because he views are back country swamp.... God, family, country. But again people are blowing it out of proportion. I mean he stated what he believes...period. Now with A&E... he could have broken some contractual agreement or something. This guy has also said he wants less time on air as well. Because it is not a "reality" show. it is scripted reality.
Also for those of you who don't know much about this guy.... He was the starting QB ahead of Terry Bradshaw. He stopped playing football in college because it interfered with duck hunting and his backwoods up bringing. Bradshaw even admitted that he would have been a pro QB. He also patended a duck call that everyone else follows now a days. So he is worth millions before this show. He also in his younger days "ran a fowl".... he was a drunk, ran around on his wife, etc. Then he found Christ again and now teaches bible school, gives sermons, etc. He did this all before the "fame" of this show. So this won't bother him at all.
Lol I can't help but wonder why anyone would give a shit about anything that an inbred hillbilly has to say. Who cares? Its a stupid show showcasing redneck idiots. And why should such backwards thinking be surprising? Consider the source.
Has anyone seen what Phil said about the interview.... Everything was taken out of context... NO SHIT!!
He said he was quoting the bible. Where it says "homosexuality is a sin (old testament)." He also said in about the same breathe that he has nothing against anyone and was just quoting scripture or referencing scripture. He also says that homosexuals are gods children and are supposed to be loved.
Again....media twisting shit to fit its needs.
But I agree tumble.....nothing bothers this guy and he has made his millions and could care less.
Sclvr,..anymore than they would give a shit about anything a bigot like you would have to say. The so called "inbred hillbilly" holds a Masters degree and as was stated before was backed up by Terry Bradshaw at Louisiana Tech University. He is also a multi-millionaire "inbred hillbilly." Bet you aren't a multi-millionaire with a Masters degree.
Really stupid post Estafador since I am a Republican and had the enjoyable good luck to hear Alan Keyes speak at a Tea Party rally. Mr. Keyes is black and he was welcomed whole heartedly by people who were the same as him and believed as he did, despite looking differently. Liberals are the opposite. They all look different and yet combine for one single brain and thought process. SCLYR in considering the source I also had to consider your stupidity and bigotry. You appear to be quite the imbecile. Not that I am an expert but having practiced criminal law for 31 years I know a bit about the Constitution and this is not a free speech issue at all. The First Amendment applies to the Government and Governmental agencies and not private employers, so unless there was an exception in his contract he can be suspended for violating the company's rules. If people were outraged about this in real life the solution is simple and often used by the gays themselves: make it a point to find out which companies advertise on A+E and then inform them they are boycotted until they stop. If enough people did this they would pull their advertising from A+E and A+E would be gone. I would hope my fellow Conservatives understand that martin Bashir being fired for his despicable and classless comments against Sarah Palin is in the same boat as this guy.
Freedom of Speech is interesting. I seem to recall that Wal-Mart pulled a Sheryl Crow album off of the shelves for her lyrics about "buying a gun from Wal-Mart".
Personally, I have no problem with what Phil said. He didn't espouse violence, hatred or action against homosexuals. He stated an opinion, one that he's entitled to. I do find it interesting when people choose what they quite from the bible. Liberals and Conservatives alike handpick the Bible for what suits them best.
True dat jabthehut my man. I don't know he had a master's but I did know he and a family have made a pretty penny.
Mr. Duck Dynasty dude's style isn't my my cup of tea, but I think he has a right to say whatever he wants. If I were interested in the show I would probably listen to what he said in its totality and if it bugged me I might stop watching. If it didn't bug me I'd continue watching. Personal choice. Doesn't matter to me since I've never watched the show and am not interested.
But I don't know what deogol wants...the government to force A&E to keep the show on? For the government to tell LBGTQ groups to STFU? Freedom of speech cuts both ways.
The Duck Dynasty folks have had shows before and will probably have more. If they say stuff that enough people find obnoxious their sales may tank. I suspect they've invested well and will be fine. If not, well...that is their problem. Free speech cuts both ways...everybody gets to say what they want.
This is an issue between an employer & an employee. Since the employee seems to be RICH enough, perhaps he should pay to have a Media outlet/forum that he can use to express his opinions. Or cheaper - just walk out on the "streets" and I'll bet plenty of people will ask him to talk until he runs out of breath.
Every one is free to say stupid stuff. Others are free to call them out on it. An employer has complete control over the image their employees portray.
He was asked the questions in an interview with GQ. I am sure he didn't solicit then. He gave his answer which was his opinion, he doesn't seem like someone looking to spread any agenda.
Do we really have any way of knowing if A&E management fired the guy just cause they were offended, or as a business decision?
I would get fired at my job for talking shit about gay people. Because my company values its gay employees, and they don't want anyone creating a hostile work environment for them.
A&E made the guy a celebrity. Does freedom of speech mean he's now entitled to his celebrity? Wouldn't it be better if we had some kind of standard that we shouldn't make a celebrity out of dumb-as-a-rock ignorant people? Because it is an ignorant opinion. Traditional Christianity held that God's purpose for sex was procreation within marriage, and it was sinful to try to frustrate that purpose. The Catholic Church (officially) still holds to that principle, which is why they oppose birth control even for married people. By this rule, homosexual sex is obviously sinful, no baby possible. But very few Christians, including those who condemn gays, still want to apply this strict rule to themselves. They are just ignorant hypocrites.
Zip is correct, freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without consequences of any form. It simply means the government can't punish you.
Jester and Zip and a few of the others are right. If the guy had been arrested, punished, or otherwise subjected to a malevolent government act of some sort, that would certainly be a violation of his right to free speech. This is not what is happening here.
@ilbbaicnl A&E didn't make him a celebrity. He was already one in the community he wanted to be reconized in.
Also if anybody has watched the show. They end the show with a prayer and the family all at a sit down meal. So A&E knew his beliefs. So this is again one group forcing things to shut down or people get fired for speaking their beliefs.... IT is like if you don't think how we think they you are wrong. Like others mentioned his beliefs conflict with many but he wasn't spouting hatred or harm to be done. He was quoting a book many have quoted. If you want to know more....see what he said about civil rights in the south.
Like I mentioned it we are only talking about one side. We even haven't heard the total story yet. But again like I mentioned A&E is bowing down to one group because they are calling for heads to roll. Now is this in their right....YES. is it right... Maybe? It depends on how you personally feel.
I mean lets put it this way if he would have said something about Muslims...would he have been fired? If he would have said something against Christians? Lutherns? Hetrosexuals? Etc??
I agree with Alcuard it is probably a contract issue or something like that. But like I mentioned before he has been wanting to back away from the spotlight to begin with.
Sclvr is about to step on some toes classifying people as inbred hillbillies. Based on what? Appearance? Political views, religious views? Judgmental much?
Agree with Goodsoutherndude... Calling these guys inbred hillbillies isn't cool. The dudes have a right to their views. They're living their lives the way they want to (I presume) and making a lot of money doing it. That's pretty smart in my book.
I strongly feel that they have the right to say WHATEVER they want. I just don't think the network suspending the patriarch is a free speech issue. I assume that A&E acted within the boundaries of the contract. If they didn't, the Duck Dynasty folks should sue. However, I suspect the Duck Dynasty folks will do better by letting the A&E show die. I read a few stories about the show and apparently A&E was bleeping the prayers to Jesus for a period, until Mr. Duck Dynasty complained. Seems that A&E was skittish about the in your face Xtianity on the show for a while.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Duck Dynasty dude wasn't irritated by that and just decided "fuck it, I'll just say what I want and if they fire me that's fine."
Fuck it. I'm gonna go watch some wholesome TV. I think the new "Two and a Half Men" is gonna have Ashton Kutcher smoke a doobie and Jon Cryer fuck a transsexual. And the kid is gonna light his own farts. No references to Jesus. You know...just like the last episode. Ahhhh...FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT!!!
Zipper... A&E was also adding in bleeps for no reason. These guys never swear. But they thought for "entertainment" value they needed the bleeps. Honestly if you are not even into this stuff go do some research. These guys are really interesting. even if you don't believe in their ideals.
Also here is a little something that gets to me. Since we are talking about "church vs state" type thing and freedom of speech. You see everyday states lifting "bans" on gay marriage. But isn't marriage a "church" thing? So why is it that the state is involved to begin with?? Why do you need a marriage license and why is there tax breaks for marriage? Because that is CHURCH!! Now if they would have just changed everything to say Civil Union instead of Marriage.....civil union licenses, civil union tax breaks, etc DONE!! No religious beliefs can be thrown into the debate at all. Just my two cents.
From what I understand about TV shows, a production company produces the shows and sells them to Network or individual stations. Gurney Productions is Duck Dynasty's production company and they have the contract for a certain number of episodes with A&E. They have already finished all the episodes for the season beginning in January. I don't know how they will put Phil on hiatus when there is no filming going on now. They may delete scenes in which he appears but I think the repercussions of that would be bad for the network.
Also, there is one sponsor (Skyjacker) of the show that has said they are standing with Phil and Duck Commander's biggest sponsor Under Armour will remain a sponsor. Thing about sponsors is that most of them aren't targeting groups that would boycott the program because of Phil's views on homosexuality.
There is also a Facebook page titled "Boycott A&E Until Phil Robertson Is Put Back On Duck
Dynastyâ€Â that was "Liked" over one million time in the first 24 hours and now has 1.5 million.
A&E will be the big loser here.
My favorite part of the show is the dinner part. Where the family gathers around the table and eats together like a family should. Maybe that's one of the biggest reasons that this show is so popular. It's emphasis on family. My family is like theirs. Except darker. And more sarcastic.
@crsm I agree. Anyone who thinks the government creates marriages is an idiot headed for divorce. Marriage is about making commitments to someone and keeping them. Government should respect the reality the true marriage is in the private (often religious) not the public realm. The government should make available standardized domestic partnership contracts. These could also be useful to people who want to pool their resources in a common household with someone they are close to, but are not actually porking.
Funny thing is, if the government removed the term marriage from the law, the so-called Bible-believing Christians would riot in the streets about it.
@Ibby-I disagree that the so-called Christians would riot in the streets. I find it interesting that the left can rail against Christianity with impunity yet if anybody makes an anti-Muslim anything, they're the bad guy.
@Slick that's mostly a straw man. There are lots of leftist Christians, Jimmy Carter, John Kerry, Barak Obama, etc. Moderates, including moderate Muslims, are against sharia law. But sharia law is not in the Quran, so you can't assume all Muslims support it, or terrorism, or genocide against Jewish Israelis.
The thing that I think is cool about this fiasco is that it really illustrates free speech working, contrary to the OP. Robertson says something gay people find obnoxious. Exercises his right to free speech. I'd probably find it obnoxious too, but I'll reserve judgement that maybe it would be ok in context. Doesn't matter -- even if it was really obnoxious I'd still support his right to free speech. Regardless, GLAAD speak up about the issue, exercising their right to free speech. Then pro-Robertson groups speak up threatening A&E with a boycott. That's their right. Gov't stays out of all of it -- as they should.
Whether or not A&E will lose or gain viewers from this isn't the point. They made a decision that they believed to be in their best business interests. If they fucked up it sucks to be them. I haven't watched A&E in years. They used to have shows more to my taste but then started doing "reality" TV. I haven't watched full shows, but the commercials for stuff like "Dog the Bounty Hunter and his big-titted wife or girlfriend" did not appeal. If your going to have a chick with big tits on a show she should be HAWT.
Reading about Duck Dynasty actually made me more interested in it. But other things I read make me suspect that the show is way less interesting than the Robertsons actually are. Looking around I found an interesting blog post with that perspective:
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Freedom of speech is really about the government not interfering with speech. Not individual people saying i don't want to hear what you have to say or, more strongly, I so dislike what you say that I won't buy anything from folks that advertise in your program.
I have more problem with folks who try to shut down strip clubs by getting the government to pass restrictive ordinances. They have the right to say what they say, but a good government would say "hey, free country. If the club is doing something that interferes with the rights of others, like loud music at 1am or strippers giving out blowjobs in front of the neighborhood kids, what thay do is their business. We're staying out of it".
Of course, it *would* be the right of that prudish strip club hater to avoid buying anything from companies associated with the club owner (if he has other business ventures). Also their right to organize a boycott of those other business ventures. Free country, don't ya know.
Seems more likely a "contractual" issue. Contracts can have all sorts of sorts of "interesting" restrictions. Perhaps he ran afoul of some.
Yes I am liberal, with several million shades of gray.
One of the Duck Dynasty stars made remarks about homosexuality being a sin. Network suspended him. Alucard is probably right -- probably has a contract that says he can't say stuff that might lose A&E advertisers.
Still don't see it as freedom of speech. If the guy doesn't like A&E's rules he can try to find somebody else that will produce his show. Should the government force A&E to film his show when they don't want to?
I wasn't changing the subject. I think you're confused about freedom of speech.
If A&E is self-destructing, it's viewers have incentive to see that it doesn't - especially if they enjoy its programming.
IOW, they can say keep Phil as much as anyone else (including the LGTB groups - which demanded A&E do something about the show.)
I am sure A&E was happy keeping the money coming until the LGTB group put out their press release.
And dude, I hate to say it, but you are confused about freedom of speech. It is a right enshrined in our culture, not just in the constitution as a protection against government.
Possibly.
That works.
Now honestly I don't think this guy was goated into saying anything. Because he views are back country swamp.... God, family, country. But again people are blowing it out of proportion. I mean he stated what he believes...period. Now with A&E... he could have broken some contractual agreement or something. This guy has also said he wants less time on air as well. Because it is not a "reality" show. it is scripted reality.
Also for those of you who don't know much about this guy.... He was the starting QB ahead of Terry Bradshaw. He stopped playing football in college because it interfered with duck hunting and his backwoods up bringing. Bradshaw even admitted that he would have been a pro QB. He also patended a duck call that everyone else follows now a days. So he is worth millions before this show. He also in his younger days "ran a fowl".... he was a drunk, ran around on his wife, etc. Then he found Christ again and now teaches bible school, gives sermons, etc. He did this all before the "fame" of this show. So this won't bother him at all.
He said he was quoting the bible. Where it says "homosexuality is a sin (old testament)." He also said in about the same breathe that he has nothing against anyone and was just quoting scripture or referencing scripture. He also says that homosexuals are gods children and are supposed to be loved.
Again....media twisting shit to fit its needs.
But I agree tumble.....nothing bothers this guy and he has made his millions and could care less.
I give about as much of a fuck about that as I do about your opinion.
Mr. Duck Dynasty dude's style isn't my my cup of tea, but I think he has a right to say whatever he wants. If I were interested in the show I would probably listen to what he said in its totality and if it bugged me I might stop watching. If it didn't bug me I'd continue watching. Personal choice. Doesn't matter to me since I've never watched the show and am not interested.
But I don't know what deogol wants...the government to force A&E to keep the show on? For the government to tell LBGTQ groups to STFU? Freedom of speech cuts both ways.
The Duck Dynasty folks have had shows before and will probably have more. If they say stuff that enough people find obnoxious their sales may tank. I suspect they've invested well and will be fine. If not, well...that is their problem. Free speech cuts both ways...everybody gets to say what they want.
I would get fired at my job for talking shit about gay people. Because my company values its gay employees, and they don't want anyone creating a hostile work environment for them.
A&E made the guy a celebrity. Does freedom of speech mean he's now entitled to his celebrity? Wouldn't it be better if we had some kind of standard that we shouldn't make a celebrity out of dumb-as-a-rock ignorant people? Because it is an ignorant opinion. Traditional Christianity held that God's purpose for sex was procreation within marriage, and it was sinful to try to frustrate that purpose. The Catholic Church (officially) still holds to that principle, which is why they oppose birth control even for married people. By this rule, homosexual sex is obviously sinful, no baby possible. But very few Christians, including those who condemn gays, still want to apply this strict rule to themselves. They are just ignorant hypocrites.
Also if anybody has watched the show. They end the show with a prayer and the family all at a sit down meal. So A&E knew his beliefs. So this is again one group forcing things to shut down or people get fired for speaking their beliefs.... IT is like if you don't think how we think they you are wrong. Like others mentioned his beliefs conflict with many but he wasn't spouting hatred or harm to be done. He was quoting a book many have quoted. If you want to know more....see what he said about civil rights in the south.
Like I mentioned it we are only talking about one side. We even haven't heard the total story yet. But again like I mentioned A&E is bowing down to one group because they are calling for heads to roll. Now is this in their right....YES. is it right... Maybe? It depends on how you personally feel.
I mean lets put it this way if he would have said something about Muslims...would he have been fired? If he would have said something against Christians? Lutherns? Hetrosexuals? Etc??
I agree with Alcuard it is probably a contract issue or something like that. But like I mentioned before he has been wanting to back away from the spotlight to begin with.
Dude isn't employed by A&E, he's contracted - like strippers.
I haven't read the contract, but I am sure there is something in there about criminality - which to my knowledge - doesn't include christianity yet.
I am sure there will be more entertainment out of this.
</stirring the pot>
I strongly feel that they have the right to say WHATEVER they want. I just don't think the network suspending the patriarch is a free speech issue. I assume that A&E acted within the boundaries of the contract. If they didn't, the Duck Dynasty folks should sue. However, I suspect the Duck Dynasty folks will do better by letting the A&E show die. I read a few stories about the show and apparently A&E was bleeping the prayers to Jesus for a period, until Mr. Duck Dynasty complained. Seems that A&E was skittish about the in your face Xtianity on the show for a while.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Duck Dynasty dude wasn't irritated by that and just decided "fuck it, I'll just say what I want and if they fire me that's fine."
Fuck it. I'm gonna go watch some wholesome TV. I think the new "Two and a Half Men" is gonna have Ashton Kutcher smoke a doobie and Jon Cryer fuck a transsexual. And the kid is gonna light his own farts. No references to Jesus. You know...just like the last episode. Ahhhh...FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT!!!
Also here is a little something that gets to me. Since we are talking about "church vs state" type thing and freedom of speech. You see everyday states lifting "bans" on gay marriage. But isn't marriage a "church" thing? So why is it that the state is involved to begin with?? Why do you need a marriage license and why is there tax breaks for marriage? Because that is CHURCH!! Now if they would have just changed everything to say Civil Union instead of Marriage.....civil union licenses, civil union tax breaks, etc DONE!! No religious beliefs can be thrown into the debate at all. Just my two cents.
Along that line, why is it OK for governments to pay for school zone signs, lights, etc for parochial schools? Where is the ACLU going nutso on that?
Also, there is one sponsor (Skyjacker) of the show that has said they are standing with Phil and Duck Commander's biggest sponsor Under Armour will remain a sponsor. Thing about sponsors is that most of them aren't targeting groups that would boycott the program because of Phil's views on homosexuality.
There is also a Facebook page titled "Boycott A&E Until Phil Robertson Is Put Back On Duck
Dynastyâ€Â that was "Liked" over one million time in the first 24 hours and now has 1.5 million.
A&E will be the big loser here.
Funny thing is, if the government removed the term marriage from the law, the so-called Bible-believing Christians would riot in the streets about it.
Whether or not A&E will lose or gain viewers from this isn't the point. They made a decision that they believed to be in their best business interests. If they fucked up it sucks to be them. I haven't watched A&E in years. They used to have shows more to my taste but then started doing "reality" TV. I haven't watched full shows, but the commercials for stuff like "Dog the Bounty Hunter and his big-titted wife or girlfriend" did not appeal. If your going to have a chick with big tits on a show she should be HAWT.
Reading about Duck Dynasty actually made me more interested in it. But other things I read make me suspect that the show is way less interesting than the Robertsons actually are. Looking around I found an interesting blog post with that perspective:
www.salon.com/2013/12/20/phil_robertsons…
Still doesn't make it any sort of infringement of Robertson's right to free speech.