I have been going out to the clubs for over thirty years and there has been a definite slowdown in the last ten years or so. Many of the clubs I go to used to be standing room only and now you chould shoot an AK 47 through and not hit anyone. I also notice that the customers are mostly older guys. I would hate to see this business go under. What is the problem? Owners tell me it is the economy or the no smoking policies(largely unenforced in clubs)or the weather etc. There was a long article in the New York Times about the economies of Webcamming and I think younger guys are just as happy using their electronic devices as theY are using a real GIRL.It is cheaper and you do not have to interact in a real way. I am curious what other facors may be in influencing this. Any serious thoughts?
Let's face it, the economic downturn certainly was the *first* major contributing factor to the club's downfall. People no longer their HELOC to withdraw money from, and the first budget cutback when things get tight for most people is playtime in a stripclub. But economics isn't the only thing to blame: management and policies that are completely anathema to the entire concept of customer service (trying to bleed every last cent out of each visit, exorbitant charges for VIP rooms, lying on the phone to get you in just to collect another cover charge, etc.) sent a lot of people scurrying elsewhere for their entertainment, and, as you have observed, camwhoring has really, really cut a large chunk of available talent out of the clubs and into the internet, where it is safer, easier and cheaper to make a buck. All you have to do is look at the posts here to understand why dancers would much rather stay in their homes and broadcast than deal with this wretched refuse.
@ Chili Palmer +1 echoes my experience with club management. Similar complaints voiced by former SC manager the StripClubHound on his blog.
Another factor: new, more restrictive state/county/city regulations of SCs. Here in Missouri state law forbids stage full nudity; topless okay ONLY if no booze AND club closes at midnight. We went from totally nude shows / topless LDs to bikini only for both. Neighboring Kansas clubs have failed to take advantage by consistently offering full nudity on stage to attract cross-state traffic into their clubs.
All the above comments are excellent. I always point to these three factors when this topic comes up: In addition to web cam girls having gained popularity in recent years, two other on-line sources are big competition for strip clubs now--lots of free porn, and escort services. All three have bit into disposable dollars available for strip club entertainment.
I can't agree with some of the comments said. Yes I rather play video games than watch a girl on web cam or stripb clubs. Yes I rather play on my cell phone than watch webcamming or strip clubs I rather play on my PC (if I had one) than go to a strip club or webcamming. Hell I rather do anything rather than webcamming. But that is because I'm young. Dont bullshit like you mean all forms of interacting Alucard because we know you meant the strip club. Us young folk realize rather than pay to watch a girl get naked and feel all over us or even pay for sex, the majority of us can just get a girlfriend, treat her nice and our cost of sex far underwhelms you guys paying for sexual activity. The notion that all men agree with is that paying for sex is pathetic and means your too pathetic to get some on your own. I speam for the young guy at any rate.
Why pay 500 for sexual activities when buyi g and playing a video game is superior cheaper. And by the end of the day we can even have our girlfriends not mind it...and still give us sex.
My ATF dabbled in web camming. She stopped because of privacy issues at home. I'm not interested in it at all myself; I like warm flesh. But she liked it more than dancing. I don't know if she made any money at it though.
@Estafador I think you miss the point of why men go to the clubs. It's not because they can't get a girlfriend for sex. Quite the opposite in fact: I'm willing to bet most guys here get all the free sex they want.
Clubs offer entertainment along with whatever sex you might get as a bonus. If all you wanted was sex you get an escort. In a club you can sample a wide variety of girls easily, as opposed to stringing along several girlfriends in the outside world. Maybe you can do that, but I'm too old.
I love going to my club. I'm surrounded by friendly, beautiful women who treat me like I want to be treated. It's not just about orgasms.
Thank you for all the comments and I agree that the economy is partially to blame but this can't be the only industry not to be effected by the use of personal technology. If it is the economy then prices should go down until business returns.I have not seen this. If young guys think it is cheaper to houndog their own tail then they aren't keeping good accounts. Just because my jeans are tighter doen't mean I don't get any on my own. I guess the young guys (Estafador)don't appreciate variety or novelty.I stll think the club experience is too persoanl for the glassy eyed game players that infect my workplace. They can't even say hello.
" In addition to web cam girls having gained popularity in recent years, two other on-line sources are big competition for strip clubs now--lots of free porn, and escort services. All three have bit into disposable dollars available for strip club entertainment."
Online sex sites IMHO will NEVER replace real skin-to-skin contact that you get with a real, life breathing, female sex worker.
If guys want to sit at home on their sofa and jack off to the tiny screen on their cell phone - LET THEM - as far as I'm concerned.I'd rather be with a live woman.
As others have mentioned; technology has broadened the sex business. Now a days one does not have to go the “brick and mortar†route to find sex/naked-women.
In years past; one would often have to drive the streets to find sex; now a days is often a click away. Many guys prefer the escort/sure-sex thing to the SC thing; and with the internet; the escort/sure-sex thing is easily attainable and may even offer more discretion than visiting a public SC.
And the economy of course. Although technically recovered; many still feel skittish and uncertain about the present and future; so many feel skittish about pissing money away in SCs.
And since the air dance days are long gone in many areas; many of the hot/very-attractive dancers we would see in the past in the air dance days probably got out of the biz when it became extras or high mileage in the SCs.
I definitely prefer the live, in-the-club experience over any virtual reality. Many posters (mostly younger?) use smartphones and tablets to manage financials, get news, sports, porn etc. So they've become used to this experience. I use my pc for the same but in the end prefer a live, warm female on stage or in VIP.
@gmd - I've been on this site long enough to have read your posts about your club experiences (exploits?) and know you much prefer "going for the gold." More power to you!
When I go to a club I like (1) seeing attractive women stripping to full nudity; (2) getting full contact LDs; (3) getting extras, sometimes, but not always, all 3 in the same visit. Geography matters as to what opportunities are available.
Personally, I'm a big proponent of the negative feedback theory. The economy tanked > disposable income was cut back > top talent (looks and/or personality) left because they had higher expectations > clubs brought in low quality replacement and/or starting gouging customer in a suicidal attempt to keep revenue up > customers further cut back > and so on.
My ATF loves to fuck young "hot" guys. Thirty or forty years ago this was not as common as it is today. Many younger guys have all the sexual stimulation they want or need. Having young women talk openly about their sexual appetites is a relatively new phenomenon. My ATF talks about the guys she blew while a freshman in high school. I was a freshman in high school in 1959 and I doubt if any of my female classmates knew that women had orgasms or what a blowjob was, never mind how to give one.
Yes the clubs are populated by older men because many of us are tittilated and mesmerized by young hard bodies that we didn't get to sample when we were young. Today's men in their 30's and 40's have benefited from the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's, taking the mystery and mystique away from the beauties who I drool over.
Today I spent an hour in a club with a 24 year old who stroked my rock hard dick through my pants as we discussed swallowing vs. spitting; the several threesomes which we each have been involved in; planning for an OTC get together where she wants to give me a birthday present.
That was unheard of in my experience when I was young. I had a steady girlfriend from age 16 to 18. She had huge beautiful breasts and we'd remove her bra and I'd feast on them. But we never went below the waist. Why? It just wasn't done. So my contribution as to why strip clubs are losing business? Lack of demand.
The slow down is a result of demographics and a shift in attitudes and social interaction.
We went through a long upward trajectory fueled by consumption on steroids because of debt. Now we are in a period of consumption decreasing because it is no longer fueled by debt, and people are saving more.
The younger generation spends more time with social interaction through electronic devices than they do in person. It is not to unreasonable to
believe that webcams can replace strip clubs in the future if the trend continues.
Lastly, the Pacific Northwest has been hit hard because Dougster's mom has become too old to be a desirable fuck anymore.
Lack of innovation is another possible explanation for the slowdown. Any retail or entertainment venue must change things to keep customers interested. I'm seeing many club owners fail to understand this concept. The same old same old gets boring after a while.
As many have noted, it is complicated mixture of many reasons.
Here in Arizona, they've passed very strict DUI laws which have impacted clubs. Wages have gone up very little in the last twenty years.
I have to agree with gawker that the ease of getting pussy must have some impact. When I was in HS there was not grinding or any talk being bi. Go to a HS dance now and it looks like a fucking orgy with girls twerking and acting lesbi to get the boy's attention.
Young dudes today have it made. When I was a kid, I had to actually go up and say something smooth to their face. Now dudes can just text. Also, with the right kind of cash, the available pool of pussy is world wide versus just what in in the block.
As women have become more openly sexual and have become more vocal as to what our sexual needs are, the need for many pussy hounds to go to SC's has diminished.
However I do remember before 2008, there were a few nude clubs in addition to the topless clubs and almost all the clubs were very crowded on the weekend. Dance prices were better too. Then 2008 hit. Some strippers started treating me like a rock star because I was still spending money but I was picky and didn't spend too much on any one dancer. Nude clubs closed down or changed management and lost the nudity. I thought that was stupid because they could have gotten most of the crowd back if they offered bring your own beer and nudity on multiple stages. What I saw was a tiny little stage barely off the ground in the corner of a narrow room where you had to wait 30 or more minutes for one dancer to possibly visit. That lasted all of a few visits and I gave up never to return. Then they dropped the nudity where they once had a special niche market but they killed it. I guess those clubs are ok with whatever business they get being topless only.
A couple of other clubs are as crowded as ever though.
Great comments by everyone. Wish I could have gotten in on this discussion sooner. There are many factors affecting this industry. Another phenomenon I'm seeing is the dancer that just works when she needs extra money. She has a day job and just works her night job at the club when she needs cash. This causes me grief cause when I go back to see her again she's not there. I don't go to a club unless they have enough talent to take care of ALL of the patrons. I got tired of waiting around for 2 hours to get a dance. I don't have time to waste. I do a lot of OTC cause its a sure thing and ends up costing less in the long run.
Once again thanks for all the comments. A trend I see here is the lack of money and the lack of innovation in the clubs themselves.Stands to reason that the product needs to be reinvented once and a while. New consumers need new products.I also have seen a decline in the quality of the girls and I suspect the suicide spiral described above by MJX 01 is right on the money.I ca't agree with the lack of money I think it is a question of priority spending. I appreciate the tone of this conversation and really appreciate all the takes on this question.
Are you sure you wouldn't want it in a package that was easier to open and cost less? What about one with a longer warranty and better lasting parts? Those made in China don't last like they used to. Obviuosly i menat the delivery system had to change not the basic product. I think the experience is the product and the pussy is a bonus. Sort of like the toy in the cereal box but more expensive.
I've been to my share of SC's over the past 30 years. Here's some observations, some of which are repeats.
Recessions are good for the talent. When hiring in the economy is lackluster, more talent looks for income from this line of work. We've been in a quasi recession now since 2008, and the talent in clubs is quite good.
Alternative services are available like never before. Where I live, there are massage parlors all over town. The internet and various sites like craig's list have eliminated almost all barriers to entry for a girl who wants to be involved in the trade.
Most clubs are not good value for money. Club owner margins on dancer revenues are too high in many places. This impacts the dancers and the customers negatively. Econ 101: falling demand and increasing prices is the definition of a dying industry.
Innovation, upgrading facilities (so many SC's are dumps), focus on customers and value based pricing.
In the last 10 years? Not really in my experiences. 2004-2006 was a very active period for the clubs that I was frequenting at the time and there was a lot of money flowing into them. But since 2008 I would agree, but in my experience strip club attendance has been marching in lockstep with the economy and unemployment.
Now is webcamming cutting into SCs? Maybe some, but I don't see it ever really taking the place of watching and interacting with live girls. Cam girls have been around for a while now and, even before then, there has been a lot of online, video and print content out there forever. And, truth be told, I doubt that total annual webcam revenues represent more than a very small fraction of what is taken in by the SC industry. The reality is that most cam girls, except for a very top small %, cannot even make a decent living off of camming alone. And long time cam girls are also complaining about how bad things are now compared to the glory days, so it is not like guys are flocking to pay them either.
I think that things will improve once the economy does. Just my two cents.
I watched a couple of good looking cam girls try to get guys to pay something to watch the shows, they kept resetting the clock, not enough buyers at only 1 to 5 credits per show. Maybe a credit is one dollar, not sure.
I doubt that cam girls are having any effect. How many of you are using the site that TUSCL features, "MY free webcam.com"? I just checked their site and it says that there are 1107 girls on line. For how many customers? I didn't stay long enough to even look at one.
Here is what I think is going on. It is a cycle that is hard to know which point to blame first.
Mileage is going way up. It used to be that high mileage meant getting a serious contact in your grind. Now it means having sex.
So now essentially being expected to be prostitutes dancers are considering alternatives. Those that think that they can make it just on the visuals and performance are thinking that web-cams are the way to go. And then the ones who are OK with the sex with random men are thinking that web-based escorting is the better choice. And the customers are thinking the same thing too.
Now, as it so happens I am advising a new club owner. What am I suggesting? First, cut out a lot of the BS that makes dancing at a club more hassle than being a webcam girl or an escort. That includes lineups, rigid stage schedules, and a tipout system that can have them leaving with almost no net. Then also have one or more webcam rooms with the club name prominently shown and a full set of all the props and let the dancers go there and make money during slow times. Have a miniscule fee so the girls can feel that they can get in on the webcam business without having to turn their private home into a public space.
inno23 has got the right idea. The product (i:e the experience) has to change or the same dollars will go chase something else. All comments were much appreciated and I will, if i am allowed, close this conversation and move on to the other discussions on here. Look for me at the criket next week. CIAO!
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Another factor: new, more restrictive state/county/city regulations of SCs. Here in Missouri state law forbids stage full nudity; topless okay ONLY if no booze AND club closes at midnight. We went from totally nude shows / topless LDs to bikini only for both. Neighboring Kansas clubs have failed to take advantage by consistently offering full nudity on stage to attract cross-state traffic into their clubs.
Why pay 500 for sexual activities when buyi g and playing a video game is superior cheaper. And by the end of the day we can even have our girlfriends not mind it...and still give us sex.
Clubs offer entertainment along with whatever sex you might get as a bonus. If all you wanted was sex you get an escort. In a club you can sample a wide variety of girls easily, as opposed to stringing along several girlfriends in the outside world. Maybe you can do that, but I'm too old.
I love going to my club. I'm surrounded by friendly, beautiful women who treat me like I want to be treated. It's not just about orgasms.
That's crazy talk! :)
Online sex sites IMHO will NEVER replace real skin-to-skin contact that you get with a real, life breathing, female sex worker.
If guys want to sit at home on their sofa and jack off to the tiny screen on their cell phone - LET THEM - as far as I'm concerned.I'd rather be with a live woman.
No, it's the old guys just like the clubs. Why? Because they have the money to do it in the first place.
In years past; one would often have to drive the streets to find sex; now a days is often a click away. Many guys prefer the escort/sure-sex thing to the SC thing; and with the internet; the escort/sure-sex thing is easily attainable and may even offer more discretion than visiting a public SC.
And the economy of course. Although technically recovered; many still feel skittish and uncertain about the present and future; so many feel skittish about pissing money away in SCs.
And since the air dance days are long gone in many areas; many of the hot/very-attractive dancers we would see in the past in the air dance days probably got out of the biz when it became extras or high mileage in the SCs.
I definitely prefer the live, in-the-club experience over any virtual reality. Many posters (mostly younger?) use smartphones and tablets to manage financials, get news, sports, porn etc. So they've become used to this experience. I use my pc for the same but in the end prefer a live, warm female on stage or in VIP.
@gmd - I've been on this site long enough to have read your posts about your club experiences (exploits?) and know you much prefer "going for the gold." More power to you!
When I go to a club I like (1) seeing attractive women stripping to full nudity; (2) getting full contact LDs; (3) getting extras, sometimes, but not always, all 3 in the same visit. Geography matters as to what opportunities are available.
Personally, I'm a big proponent of the negative feedback theory. The economy tanked > disposable income was cut back > top talent (looks and/or personality) left because they had higher expectations > clubs brought in low quality replacement and/or starting gouging customer in a suicidal attempt to keep revenue up > customers further cut back > and so on.
Yes the clubs are populated by older men because many of us are tittilated and mesmerized by young hard bodies that we didn't get to sample when we were young. Today's men in their 30's and 40's have benefited from the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's, taking the mystery and mystique away from the beauties who I drool over.
Today I spent an hour in a club with a 24 year old who stroked my rock hard dick through my pants as we discussed swallowing vs. spitting; the several threesomes which we each have been involved in; planning for an OTC get together where she wants to give me a birthday present.
That was unheard of in my experience when I was young. I had a steady girlfriend from age 16 to 18. She had huge beautiful breasts and we'd remove her bra and I'd feast on them. But we never went below the waist. Why? It just wasn't done. So my contribution as to why strip clubs are losing business? Lack of demand.
We went through a long upward trajectory fueled by consumption on steroids because of debt. Now we are in a period of consumption decreasing because it is no longer fueled by debt, and people are saving more.
The younger generation spends more time with social interaction through electronic devices than they do in person. It is not to unreasonable to
believe that webcams can replace strip clubs in the future if the trend continues.
Lastly, the Pacific Northwest has been hit hard because Dougster's mom has become too old to be a desirable fuck anymore.
Here in Arizona, they've passed very strict DUI laws which have impacted clubs. Wages have gone up very little in the last twenty years.
I have to agree with gawker that the ease of getting pussy must have some impact. When I was in HS there was not grinding or any talk being bi. Go to a HS dance now and it looks like a fucking orgy with girls twerking and acting lesbi to get the boy's attention.
Young dudes today have it made. When I was a kid, I had to actually go up and say something smooth to their face. Now dudes can just text. Also, with the right kind of cash, the available pool of pussy is world wide versus just what in in the block.
However I do remember before 2008, there were a few nude clubs in addition to the topless clubs and almost all the clubs were very crowded on the weekend. Dance prices were better too. Then 2008 hit. Some strippers started treating me like a rock star because I was still spending money but I was picky and didn't spend too much on any one dancer. Nude clubs closed down or changed management and lost the nudity. I thought that was stupid because they could have gotten most of the crowd back if they offered bring your own beer and nudity on multiple stages. What I saw was a tiny little stage barely off the ground in the corner of a narrow room where you had to wait 30 or more minutes for one dancer to possibly visit. That lasted all of a few visits and I gave up never to return. Then they dropped the nudity where they once had a special niche market but they killed it. I guess those clubs are ok with whatever business they get being topless only.
A couple of other clubs are as crowded as ever though.
Recessions are good for the talent. When hiring in the economy is lackluster, more talent looks for income from this line of work. We've been in a quasi recession now since 2008, and the talent in clubs is quite good.
Alternative services are available like never before. Where I live, there are massage parlors all over town. The internet and various sites like craig's list have eliminated almost all barriers to entry for a girl who wants to be involved in the trade.
Most clubs are not good value for money. Club owner margins on dancer revenues are too high in many places. This impacts the dancers and the customers negatively. Econ 101: falling demand and increasing prices is the definition of a dying industry.
Innovation, upgrading facilities (so many SC's are dumps), focus on customers and value based pricing.
Yeh, but how many strippers or club mangers took and passed econ101?
Now is webcamming cutting into SCs? Maybe some, but I don't see it ever really taking the place of watching and interacting with live girls. Cam girls have been around for a while now and, even before then, there has been a lot of online, video and print content out there forever. And, truth be told, I doubt that total annual webcam revenues represent more than a very small fraction of what is taken in by the SC industry. The reality is that most cam girls, except for a very top small %, cannot even make a decent living off of camming alone. And long time cam girls are also complaining about how bad things are now compared to the glory days, so it is not like guys are flocking to pay them either.
I think that things will improve once the economy does. Just my two cents.
Mileage is going way up. It used to be that high mileage meant getting a serious contact in your grind. Now it means having sex.
So now essentially being expected to be prostitutes dancers are considering alternatives. Those that think that they can make it just on the visuals and performance are thinking that web-cams are the way to go. And then the ones who are OK with the sex with random men are thinking that web-based escorting is the better choice. And the customers are thinking the same thing too.
Now, as it so happens I am advising a new club owner. What am I suggesting? First, cut out a lot of the BS that makes dancing at a club more hassle than being a webcam girl or an escort. That includes lineups, rigid stage schedules, and a tipout system that can have them leaving with almost no net. Then also have one or more webcam rooms with the club name prominently shown and a full set of all the props and let the dancers go there and make money during slow times. Have a miniscule fee so the girls can feel that they can get in on the webcam business without having to turn their private home into a public space.