Mind Fuck

I fall into the same category.

Great post.

Well Lonewolf, when I first set foot in a strip club, I wondered how the girls could get close to men who were not attractive, sometimes repulsive, and let them touch them.

When I started dancing I realized that, since I was getting paid, its extremely easy to overlook the fact that a customer may be unattractive. Eventually I quit noticing attractiveness altogether. After someone has been dancing awhile, they are indifferent to looks. They dont walk up to you and think " Wow, hes unattractive". So the truth is, even if you are old and unattractive, if you pay me well,I'd gladly have you feeling on me instead of a young attractive man that doesnt pay me well.

Iv got a bouner now...thanks guys

Clubs are dark to help fugly dancers and customers appear less fugly.

"So the truth is, even if you are old and unattractive, if you pay me well,I'd gladly have you feeling on me instead of a young attractive man that doesnt pay me well"

Exactly. And Stiletto, I am NOT referring to you, but women in general have an almost unlimited capacity to modify their actions based on money. They will marry guys for money, even if they feel no love or attraction to the guy. They will date only guys with a certain amount of money, and rationalize it with "well, if given the choice between a guy with money and a guy without, why not choose a guy with money?"

And at the same time they will look down on "skanks and ho's" who sell themselves for money.

It has nothing to do with logic, it has nothing to do with emotion, it has solely to do with doing what they think is best for them at the time.

A couple weeks ago I was in a club, and sitting next to me was an old guy, probably in his 70's, white hair, wrinkled, straight fugly. And one of the hottest girls in the club, probably 24 years old, totally smokin' hot, comes over and straddles him cowgirl, facing him, wraps her arms around him, and starts kissing his cheek and whispering in his ear. And they talk for probably a half hour, their hands all over each other. Exactly what Stiletto was talking about. This girl could get just about any guy she wanted. The amount of feelings she must have been surpressing must have been staggering.

Women, in general, from an early age, expect men to support them. And they know what they need to do to make that happen. They know what they need to look like, what they need to say, how they need to act. Many men can't comprehend that, and are like wide-eyed naive kids in that regard. "You mean, you only want me for my money??? But how can that be??"

Wow, seems like the strip club truly brings the views of women to light. Apparently, you don't have to look good for a girl to like you. You have to just have a big bank account and spend it all on her. The girls turn to mush in your hand. Thanks stiletto for showing us that girls truly are shallow and care nothing for a man.

So the real question is, what if your a hot young guy AND have a stacks on stacks on stacks AND your willing to spend it on the girl (just because i have lots of money doesnt mean im not stingy and a penny pincher), does that eventually get me free sex (and a somewhat dsyfuncional meaningful relationship) in the future?

Steffy, consider yourself very lucky. Women have, IMO, two sides: the money side, and the real side. Often those sides are intermixed, but here's what I mean.

One part of them needs security and money. The other side, what I call the "real" side, is the emotional/sexual/love/desire side, the stuff they "really" want.

The security/money side is the side that makes them marry the rich guy. The other side is the side that makes them have an affair with the studly rock musician with no money.

Don't know about that one. If it was all about money OTC, then a lot of these PLs with lots of cash should be scoring plenty of free pussy from civies. Think there is another factor at play.

The dynamic is fascinating. I've never really detected any type of hidden revulsion from a dancer in VIP. In fact the reverse is true. I'm often surprised at how much further the dancer will go than they really have to. Many give so much of themselves.

The whole experience has changed my perception of how women think and the reason they do what they do.

"Many give so much of themselves"

Like I say, wide-eyed naive kids.

Well just keep in mind, Lone_Wolf, that you are dealing with strippers, not normal women. Many on here try to equivocate between the two, but I think it's always important to keep the distinctions in mind.

"Many on here try to equivocate between the two, but I think it's always important to keep the distinctions in mind"

Good point, but I think it's a matter of degree. Many women would never be able to do what strippers do. And many strippers would never be able to do what other strippers do. Some strippers only hang with good looking young guys. They choose customers almost like they were choosing a date. Others go where the bucks are. But ask most women on the street if they'd ever work in a strip club, and the general response would be "EEEWWWwwwww !!!"

And those same girls are looking for a rich guy to marry.

It's all a matter of degree.

I can't remember any strippers who choose customers like they were choosing a date (unless some real do dig fat, ugly, gameless, maybe a little weird middle aged white guys). Think if they applied the same criteria as they do to dating they would make el zilcho dollars.

I see a lot of girls who are very choosy about who, if anyone, they sit with and dance with. Girls who really don't want to be there in the first place (I assume), and spend most of their time in the dressing room, or afraid to approach anyone. But they're probably more comfortable with guys their own age, so they sit and talk with them. I'm speculating that they are also attracted to guys their age which probably makes it easier to sit with them than with some guy who's old enough to be their grandfather.

Like I've said before, I think there are a lot of strippers out there who really don't make a lot of money because of reasons like that. Face it, it takes a lot to go up to tons of strangers every night and act like you're interested and have a conversation with them.

No way I could do it. Can you imagine being in a club full of women, and having to act like you're sexually interested in a 70 year old wrinkled woman with blue hair? Geezus, I run screaming into the night.

@jerikson- You and I are in agreement

@Dougster- Good points.

@Estafador- I was speaking of dancers in the club only so please don let strip clubs "bring views of women to light".Now jerikson and dougster have really good points on women inside and outside the club. Women and men can both be shallow. Some more than others but we all have our shallow sides. You just have to find what's right for you. If you'd like to take my words into consideration, then fine, but at 21, I'd rather you learn from life experiences and not the strip club atmosphere.

I can't speak for dancers, but I agree 100 percent with jerikson. I would assume that the majority of dancers would prefer to interact and give dances to the younger guys who are in their age range. It just makes sense. What 20 year old female do you know that finds a guy who is a few decades older than them attractive? Probably very, very few. On the other hand, they probably find many of the guys in their age range attractive. Plus, young guys are much more likely to have things in common with the dancers than the older guys, thus giving the young guy customer and the dancer more to chit chat about.

I don't think Estafador is going to be changed by life experiences Stiletto25.

We all have our own reasons & rationalizations for behaving and thinking the way we do about men/women and the dynamics of our relationships.

THERE IS NO EXPERT!!!!! LOL

Let's see how long a 20 something immature dancer lasts by only sitting with and dancing with customers their own age. I think it would be a VERY SHORT period of time.

"Women and men can both be shallow. Some more than others but we all have our shallow sides"

In my view, there are two 'dirty little secrets' that men and women can't comprehend about each other, but while absolutely true, show how we are both totally shallow.

1. Men REALLY DO only care about sex and how a woman looks. Now, OF COURSE many/most guys can really truly fall in love, but hot looking girls and sex will always be at the top of our list of what we want most. We're shallow.

2. Women REALLY DO only want a guy who's rich, tall, dark and handsome, and who's a bad boy on the outside but a good boy on the inside. But they'll never admit it, because it makes them sound shallow. Which they are.

"We're shallow"

Speak for yourself ONLY jerikson40. NOT for me.

In my circle of friends, old dudes married to hot young babes are somewhat common. Sometimes the young hot babe will start fucking out on the old dude and break up the marriage. Interestingly enough, when the hot doll gets tired of partying and is ready to settle down for awhile, they almost always end up with a different old dude and not a young stud. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Often the dancers will confide in me how repulsed they are by most customers. It amazes me that they can even get physically close to many of them.

I'm shattered. All this time I thought that it was my good looks and big dick. :)

Yeah, they often confide in me too that other customers repulse them but I'm cute. I bet nobody else has ever been told that either!

L_W,

I am going to generalize a bit here, but in my opinion, dancers are usually pretty good at reading customers. BF's another story altogether. I, too, am an older man. don't think fugly, with some disposable income. It often amazes me the dancers that approach me. I never ask a dancer to join me unless they first approach me. My last favorite was a very hot Colombian. Another on this board can vouch for that. My current one, a hot one from Ecuador. Both might be considered the hottest in the clubs when I am there. Now the reason I believe they do is that I fit the profile as some above mention. I can keep them because I do spend and am respectful with them. They have told me it drives some of the youngsters crazy that they sit with me. Oh well!!! :)

I have experienced this personally. Years ago I bought and restored it to driving condition a late 60's european sports car. I am not handsome by any stretch but at the time I was in my twenties. I drove my toy to a party where there were many single women about. The next thing I know I am a Stud and at least 3 girls wanted to go home with me. But until I went out for supplies for the friend that was throwing the party and came back and driving what they thought was a very expensive car I was not nearly as popular. Women are attracted to money and power why do you think Jack Kennedy had his pick as did Bill Clinton and The obamnation. Money is the best lubricant for all things including coochie.

"Often the dancers will confide in me how repulsed they are by most customers. It amazes me that they can even get physically close to many of them"

And that's why those dancers really should be spending their time with girls, not those gross, disgusting guys.

There are many personalities. There are "gold diggers" outside the club also (see above story). Many women are looking for a combination of the two. Security, physical attractiveness and stability. That is what the smart ones look for anyway. Many girls can act interested to get what they want in the short term of the club setting and what is so disgusting about being older. I see many diaper boys (20 somethings) that do not know how to dress, groom, or act around a woman and think that being young and "handsome in their own mind" is enough for girl to swoon and drop trou.

Clubber sez: "...dancers are usually pretty good at reading customers"

I dunno, maybe you're right, but so many times I've had dancers say something like "oh, I didn't ask you for a dance cuz I thought..." and then fill in the blank with some totally unrelated stuff that isn't even close to being true. And if you add to that all the times I've left a club with lots of unspent money in my pocket because the dancers I wanted a dance from never stopped by, and I generally come to the conclusion they think their intuition is infallible, but in fact they're mostly clueless.

I even had a dancer once ask me my sign, I told her, and said "oh, one of those..." and got up and left.

On the other hand, maybe you mean they're reading something else besides who's ready and willing to pay them money.

@Stiletto25,

I wonder how long it takes dancers to get over the fact they are going to have to dance with "less than attractive" men. Hours, days, weeks, months?

I think I have probably told this story before. Several years ago I was in the VIP with my ATF at the time. The girl that had won the amateur night contest was in the next VIP room with the assistant manager of the club - who just happened to be her boyfriend. I could hear every word she was saying. She was planning on starting to work at this club, so he was explaining to her the rules and operating procedures and they discussed several dancers.

Both my ATF and I clearly heard her say, "I am NOT going to dance with old, ugly guys". Later as we heard the door open, my ATF confronted her and had a candid conversation with her. She basically told her, "honey, if you are ever going to make any money, you better learn to dance with ALL customers, just not the young cute ones." The new dancer replied with arrogance, "I'm ONLY gonna dance with guys I want to".

Fast forward to present day. A couple of months ago this now veteran dancer (of several years) still works at the same club. She approached me (ugly, old fat guy) and asked me for a dance. I remembered her. I'm sure did not remember me. Apparently she got over not wanting to dance with ugly guys though. LMFAO.

PS. I declined the dance.

"I wonder how long it takes dancers to get over the fact they are going to have to dance with "less than attractive" men. Hours, days, weeks, months?"

Motorhead, how long would it take YOU to get over having to do sexy lapdances with a bunch of wrinkled, old, blue haired, 80 year old women? Putting your hand down between her legs and diddling her? Feeling up her saggy boobs?

Whaddya think, Motorhead?

When I think with my cock I like my mind fucked.

You guys have just confirmed for me that everything I have ever heard from a dancer is straight ol' SS. ;) And if you go into a place knowing that's what you're gonna hear, maybe you'll come out satisfied with the festivities and moments of distraction.

@motorhead- I honestly have no idea.

It took me all of a day or so. Customers go to clubs to spend. If you want to make money,especially as a new dancer with no regulars, youve got to start circulating. Sure, you'd like to circulate to guys that youre comfortable with in your own age range. However, on my second day working I was approached by an older guy who was kind of gross and perverted. I agreed to dance with him because I was there to make money.

Even though he was kind of gross and perverted, he was nice to me and I realized he was looking for a service that I was comfortable providing, plus he paid well for it. He ended up being my best customer at that club for the whole time I worked there.

Point is, its moments like my first time dancing with him that make the smart dancer wake up. He likes me and wants to pay me. I owe it to him, as a service provider, to make him feel like he deserves to feel, regardless of his looks. If I miss opportunities because I'm being picky, then I'm in the wrong business

"I owe it to him, as a service provider, to make him feel like he deserves to feel, regardless of his looks"

And that, my friends, is the attitude of someone I truly respect. I know it's difficult to do that, and for someone to take that attitude and make the effort is what it's all about. Bravo.

Oh, and being a man of a certain age, I have found I like the older lifer dancers more than the young vapid chickies anyway. Our conversations are better, we relate better and they are more experienced in the LD area with not as much resitance (unlike the young chickie this weekend who removed my hand from her thigh). They might not be the hot lookers but they are not the desperate fuglies either. They've just been on the job for 15-20yrs.

Yeah, in general I find the older girls are more likely to have the attitude Stiletto talks about. But on the other hand I've experienced quite a few young girls who are really wonderful and seem to have a similar attitude. Maybe not as skilled, but still have really great attitudes.

And anyone who shows that kind of attitude gets a truly disgusting and exorbitant tip from me.

w/jerikson40 - props to you Stiletto. That's some serious intent.

"What 20 year old female do you know that finds a guy who is a few decades older than them attractive?"

Oh, GoVikings, my young friend - actually there are thousands of hot young woman who prefer to date older men.

seekingarrangement.com

@stiletto of course I'm gonna use everything I learn from this site in real life because I'm short fat and have freckles and glasses (OK only the glasses part is true) and am socially inept. Some things said her CAN relate to girls outside the club I'm not dumb enough to use all of it. I did learn life experiences from my previous misadventures good golly give me SOME credit....Alucard.

Is it weird that as ayoung 21 year old I have a serious attraction to women 10 years (around there give or take) older than me (not to mention all I've ever dated were older women) and prefers them over younger girls at the club?

I recall a while back watching a TV program where a stripper was being interviewed and saying that friends would ask her how she could dance/be-naked with men she did not find attractive. She said they (friends) would ask her what she was thinking about when she was w/ these men – the stripper said she answered her friends by saying what she was thinking about when being with a guy she was not attracted to was how much money she was going to make from him; how many things she was going to buy with that money, and how many bills she was going to be able to pay.

Previous post – “Interestingly enough, when the hot doll gets tired of partying and is ready to settle down for awhile, they almost always end up with a different old dude and not a young stud. I'm not sure what to make of it”

I’ve heard of many women referring to the saying – “the first time (marriage) is for love, the 2nd time is for money”

With respect to older guys vs. younger guys. I’ve posted once before about my experience at Baby Dolls (BDs) in Dallas. There is a lot of $$$ in Dallas and many dancers can seriously bank at BDs. I started SCing regularly at age 30 and BDs was my first regular club. I’ve always been told I look young for my age and I used to hate this growing up. So when I started SCing at BDs, I recall often times having dancers walk right past me like I was not even there and go straight for the 50+ year old guy with the nice threads that looked like he had bank.

Previous post – “That pretty much explains why there are so few male stripper clubs Dudes are too hard-wired to be visually stimulated, so even a boatload of cash from old, overweight broads is not enough motivation for a physically fit attractive guy to choose stripping as his profession.”

I respectfully disagree. It all has to do with supply and demand. You better believe that if there was a high demand for male SCs, there would definitely be many willing to meet this demand especially in our very capitalistic society. Most women just don’t have the same level of interest to go see, and especially pay to see, naked men, IMO. Sure, I don’t doubt they would enjoy this from time to time especially on a girls night out kind of thing, but I seriously doubt there is, or would be, the same level of interest as men w.r.t. female SCs.

W.r.t. guys and sex for $$$ - I would think this definitely exists but just not the way you may be thinking. I am sure there are a lot of gay men who cater to the sexual desires of other gay men, for $$$ - and often the ones giving the $$$ will be fat, old, dudes and the ones receiving the $$$ being young and attractive – so there are guys who will fuck someone old and ugly for $$$, but not in the way you think.

In fact, I recall seeing on HBO a while back a show about the porn industry in which it was stated that the female actors are the ones who make the big bucks in porn and male actors for the most part don’t make anywhere near – with the exception of gay porn – it was stated that the best way for a male porn actor to make good $$$ was to do gay male porn – and to my astonishment – it was reported that many of the male actors doing gay porn were not gay and some were even married (to women).

I've always wondered how young hot strippers can dance for old guys, if I was female and stripped, I could never get comfortable with that, but like Dougster said strippers are not normal women. Strippers will do anything for the money.

I think most dancers that have to dance for someone that they are repulsed by simply block it out and go to that special place in their heads where everyone is physically appealing and don't smell like old-man or B.O. Or they mentally make their shopping or laundry lists, or plan their kids baby-daddy visits.

So many wannabe psychologists in this thread.

You should try and develop some psychological insights about yourself jestie, otherwise you'll just be Mr. "Fuck this! Fuck that!" forever.

Stiletto25, You are the ULTIMATE professional Strip Club dancer. Bravo!!!

So you think you are CUTE Dougster. I laughed so FUCKING Hard when I read that comment that I nearly peed my pants. LMFAO

Thank you for all the props.

@Estafador- Okay, I will give you some credit. And no, its not weird you're attracted to women ten years older than you.

Let's take this psychoanalysis to the next level.

All three of my past favorites are Friends on Facebook so I've seen all three of their SO (babydaddys). Two of the three guys are significantly overweight. Not classically good looking by any means.

Does that confirm thar dancers are indeed wired differently. Perhaps, oddly enough, male physical beauty is not important to them. Maybe that's how they can dance with ugly guys without a second thought. And these girls are not fuglies. Each are the hottest girls in their clubs.

Stiletto made great contributions to this discussion. This is why I wish we had more dancers posting here. I think we scare away dancers with our male attitudes and humor.

25, one of the best female contributors, all time, to this site, her being a dancer. I think we all miss JJ, though.

"Perhaps, oddly enough, male physical beauty is not important to them"

Uh, no. And I find it kinda funny the lengths to which old guys will go to justify why hot strippers might think fat, ugly, old guys are just dreamy. They don't.

J'40

You mis-read or mis-interpreted what I said.

I never implied they found me to be attractive. I simply said I found it odd they have fat ugly boyfriends when they probably could have any guy they wanted, presumably better looking guys.

Maybe because like we've been saying for a thousand times already, they overlook the beauty of the "fugly" guy (no man is ugly, everyone just has different taste in beauty. someone thinks your attractive bucko) and see him for what he is on the inside...of his wallet. Come on now, that's the point of sugar daddies. They give the girl money, she gives him comfort at night and lets her do her during the day, no doubt they already know that woman is fucking some other dude sometime during their relationship....makes you wanna have a sugar mama. too bad those don't exist sobsob

I got news for ya- sugar mommas certainly do exist. I have had a few sugar babies from time to time...a cougar needs her kittens.

Thought the partner of a Sugar Mama was a Gigilo. LOL

Typo Sorry. It is Gigolo.

"Thought the partner of a Sugar Mama was a Gigilo. LOL"

No. The partner of a sugar mama is.....one lucky sonuvabitch!

If you are clean, polite and considerate, most dancers will be happy with you. My doctor is as ugly as I am, but neither one of us is sexually traumatized when he has to palpate my lymph nodes or something. If people can be happy working in coal mines and fish markets, they can deal with our fugly selves.

Wow, there was just way too much psychoanalysis in this thread. LOL.

Do many strippers struggle with this? Of course. Shit, a number of the dancers that I know cannot get through a shift without alcohol, weed or both. This shit is just not natural for many of them.

But I stopped thinking about the psychology around how girls half my age would mess around with me a long time ago. Either a dancer entertains me or she is moved along. If she needs top notch acting skills in order to do so then that is her issue to deal with, not mine.

My work is just that, work. A LD, to me, is just like answering a phone or flipping a burger. I don't go to work to make friends, have sexual needs satisfied or anything but collect a paycheck, as cleanly and wish as little drama as possible. I don't care what you look like. Most of the time, older guys are more respectful and more pleasant to be around than the younger frat boys, so I gravitate towards the older gentlemen. What I like in a customer only has to with his demeanor. I like someone respectly, who asked before touching, who pays for my time without whining and respects my life and privacy outside the club. Guys in their 20s are often incapable. I'm not saying you are incapable, Alucard so don't freak out! Or anyone else for that matter.. Just in general. Olde regulars are the best. Most of them are married. We can have real conversations about out lives. Guys in their 20s get al butt hurt if I talk about the great sex I had the night before or whatever.