Traveler's Guide to OTC

avatar for doctorevil
doctorevil
Evil Lair
I have been lurking on the discussion board for some time. I don’t know if I’ll ever post there because of all the nonsense that goes on. However, I noticed one of the most popular subjects there is OTC. I understand why it’s such a popular subject: It’s the ultimate strip club experience—the fantasy of pretty much every guy who goes to a strip club: take that dancer that struck your fancy out of the club and fuck her. As one recent post here put it, “the caviar of the sex industry.” I agree completely. In my opinion, extras in the club are a dim, weak second. There are endless posts about how to arrange OTC, fretting about being rejected, fear of being ejected from the club, what “system” works, how much does it cost, etc. I think I have been relatively successful arranging OTC trysts, so I thought I would throw out a few observations here in an article.

First, my perspective: I travel a lot for business on short one or two day trips. That’s when I do most of my clubbing. I have seen posts about spending multiple club trips and hundreds or thousands of dollars over several days, weeks, or even many months grooming a particular stripper in preparation for “popping the question” and proposing OTC. That won’t work for me. I don’t have the time for such preparation, even if I was so inclined (I’m not), nor is it necessary. For Christ’s sake, you’re not asking her to marry you. All of my OTC ventures have resulted from a single club visit and first interaction with a particular dancer. I don’t have a CF, ATF, DS, etc., nor do I want one. On a few occasions, I have had follow up OTC sessions with the same dancer, but only after an initial OTC session that resulted from our first meeting. I’m almost sixty years old, slightly overweight, but in otherwise fairly good shape. I don’t think I’m ugly, but I have no illusions about being some kind of chick magnet. I’m just your average late middle aged PL. Or am I considered old now?

Second, let me state up front, this is not a “system.” I don’t have a system. What I have are observations about the circumstances that seem to generate good results. What are good results? I’m not keeping notes, but my success rate it probably about 30%. In other words, about one-third of the time that I actually ask, I am successful in arranging OTC. I don’t always ask for any number of reasons: lack of interesting girl, lack of time, lack of funds, etc. Maybe other people have better success rates, but from seeing some of the posts, I seem to be doing better than many. Anyway, I ask a lot, so I am satisfied with the results.

Even though I don’t think there is a “system” to this, I don’t think it’s as simple as paying hookers for sex, as some have suggested. Some strippers may well be nothing more than hookers who dance as a means of advertising their availability, but I don’t think that’s true of most. Nevertheless, many clearly are hookers. If she is going to have sex with you in exchange for money, she is a hooker. However, just because she is a hooker does not mean she will do OTC with you. Some strippers will do extras in the club, which make them hookers, but will not go for OTC.

I think, and it just my opinion of course, that even many of the strippers willing to do extras, do not view themselves as hookers. I think, again just my opinion, that they believe if they keep their activities in the club, they are not really hookers. If they go to a hotel room with you for money, they can’t escape the hard reality that they are hooking. I have had several tell me, after agreeing to go OTC with me the first time we met, that they “never do this type of thing” or “I never go with a customer the first time I meet him.” Of course, I don’t believe that for a minute. But I do believe that they want to believe it, even though they know it’s not true. Okay, enough armchair psychoanalysis.

Personal Hygiene and Appearance

I’m talking about yours, not hers. This should be a no brainer. If you have been doing hard manual labor, before you go the club, take a shower. And brush your teeth if you just ate a chilidog with extra onions. I don’t do manual labor for a living anymore, so this is not much of an issue for me. However, if I have time, I still take a shower anyway before heading out. I have had several dancers compliment me for smelling clean—not smelling good, just clean. I don’t use cologne. I just shower with soap and use underarm deodorant. Could it just be stripper shit? Of course, but I don’t think it is. Those same dancers also complained to me about how some guys come into the club with bad body odor and how they hate to give them dances. Does that mean they won’t do a dance or possibly even go OTC with someone with BO? Of course not. If they want the money, and enough is offered, they will. But if the choice is between someone who is relatively clean and someone who smells like yesterday’s garbage—that’s not hard to figure out, is it? Don’t walk into the club with an obstacle that you could have easily eliminated.

My typical dress is blue jeans and a polo shirt, sometimes a graphic T-shirt. Occasionally, if I have just finished work, I’ll be in business casual or even, very rarely, a suit and tie. I haven’t noticed any difference in the way dancers interact with me depending on how I dress. In the places I like to go, they certainly are not more interested in a guy (or at least me) in a suit in tie. If anything, they may be somewhat more standoffish, but I don’t wear a suit and tie enough to have statistically valid basis of comparison.

I’ll just sum up this section up by saying I go the club clean wearing clean, normal looking clothes. I don’t wear the “perv wear” collection as described by Papi Chulo. I’ve been going to strip clubs a long time, long before I joined this site, and that’s just not me. Would it make a difference, and if so, positive or negative—who knows? Again, these are just my own personal observations of my own experiences. By the way, I have had at least once dancer tell me that I should wear shorts when I come to the club. Again, that’s just not me, so I don’t. That’s not an OTC issue, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

Type of Club

I like to go to mid-tier level type of clubs. That’s where I have had success with OTC because that’s the type of club I frequent the most. What do I mean by a mid-tier club? My definition is one that’s not in a ghetto neighborhood, even though it’s not necessarily in the high rent district, and has decent but not extravagant décor, generally nice looking girls mostly in the 4 to 8 range or better, well maintained, with primarily blue collar clientele. I’m thinking of places like Wackos in Jacksonville, or most of the clubs in the Daytona Beach or Cocoa Beach areas. I have also had some success in fairly upscale type clubs, like Baby Dolls, Dallas, or Tootsie’s in Miami Gardens. It doesn’t matter to me whether it’s a nude club, topless club, or even just a bikini club, with one exception: I don’t like nude, no alcohol clubs.

I also occasionally visit truly high-end clubs, think Flight Club, Detroit, or the Thee Doll House in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, but I don’t really like those types of places as much as I do a nice mid-level club. Yes, the décor is top notch and the girls look great, but you pay (overpay) for it and the vibe can be somewhat stuck up. I’ve never done OTC with a dancer from a true high-end club. I have only raised the subject once in a high-end club, and was turned down. I either didn’t have the time, money, or didn’t get the vibe that it would be worth asking the other times, so I didn’t. But I don’t even go to these types of places very often.

I actually prefer dives to high-end clubs, but I haven’t done OTC with a girl from a true dive bar, either. I don’t visit them as much as mid-tier clubs, but if it’s a real dive, they probably don’t have a girl that looks good enough to interest me, or at most, they have one or two good looking girls who may stayed tied up with other customers. So, for me, mid-tier is where the action is.

Timing

If there is a system at all, I think it has to do with timing. I think the best opportunity to strike a deal for OTC is near the end of a shift. Unlike most businesses where the employer pays its employees work, strippers must pay the club to work. As soon as they walk in the door, they owe money to the club. The amount of the club fee varies by club and other factors, but the bottom line is the dancer is not likely to agree to go OTC with you at the beginning of a shift when she has not made much money and may in fact still owe the club money. Even if she wanted to and has already made up the club fee, club rules may not allow her to leave soon after starting a shift and she could be fired for doing so.

I prefer to go to a club within a couple of hours of the end of the dayshift, which of course will vary from club to club, but usually is somewhere between 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m., depending on when the club opens. This works out for me since I usually work a typical 9 to 5 schedule, at least when I am traveling. However, some clubs don’t have day shifts. Some don’t have shifts at all and let girls come in at any time, but this seems to be pretty rare, and even then there are usually rules about how long they have to stay. And of course, I can’t always do day shift either, or may have done day shift at one club and moved on to another that is well into the night shift, but that’s not my personal preference because I usually either have work or a flight the next morning.

Whatever the shift is for the girl I’m interested in, by the time it is getting close to the end of it, she probably knows if she has made her monetary goal. If not, she may be interested in OTC to make up the shortfall. Even if she has made her goal, she may be interested in OTC for some easy additional money. But, in my experience, it’s extremely unlikely she will agree to leave for OTC shortly after she has arrived.

Sometimes I have had a girl agree to OTC in the beginning or middle of a shift, but say she wanted to finish her shift, or at least get close to finishing it, and would meet me at the hotel afterwards, or something similar. First, you need to recognize that this may well be stripper shit, and she could be saying this to keep you in the club spending money on her with no intention of meeting you anywhere later. However, it is not necessarily stripper shit. I have been stood up a few times, but more often than not, a dancer that has told me this has followed though and met me later. Obviously, you won’t know which it is until you are back at the hotel at the appointed time, and you either have your dick in your hand or you have a handful of pussy (with acknowledgement to Donald Trump). So, as has been said many times here before, don’t pay for anything up front.

By the way, not following through on OTC is a two way street. A couple of girls have told me that they have agreed to meet guys for OTC who have chickened out or changed the minds for whatever reason. That’s probably part of the reason they are reluctant to leave before the end of their shift. If they allow it at all, most clubs have increased club fees or fines for girls who leave early, so if you agree to meet a girl OTC for a price, convince her to leave early, and she holds up her end of the bargain, and you are a chicken shit and don’t hold up your end, you have cost her money, and not just the money you didn’t pay her. She has also lost out on the money she could have made if she stayed and worked, and she may have paid a club fine, too. So don’t be a chicken shit.

If a girl does agree to meet after her shift, but there are a few hours to go, you have a couple of options. You can stay at the club until her shift ends, but don’t expect her to stay with you the whole time, unless you are spending money on her the whole time. If I stay a the club, I make it clear, or she makes it clear, that she doesn’t have to stay with me and is free to circulate and make more money. However, it usually doesn’t take a lot to keep the girls happy at the places I like to frequent. Sometimes they are happy if you just keep buying them drinks and maybe an occasional dance. I don’t mind buying the girls drinks. I have had great fun on occasion sitting with a dancer getting drunk together and waiting for her shift to end, and the post-club fun with a drunk (but not too drunk) stripper can be mind blowingly good. By the way, I am referring to normal drinks, not overpriced “dancer drinks.”

But even if you stay and wait out the end of the shift, that doesn’t mean anything is guaranteed. You could wait out the end of her shift for several hours, spend a lot of money, and she could still end up finding some excuse to not follow through, or she could just disappear into the dressing room never to bee seen again. That’s why I like to make the arrangements near the end of a shift, so the follow through is pretty much immediate. But if it’s not the end of the shift, and I don’t want to wait around, I’ll exchange numbers and ask her to text me when she gets off and confirm she’s still interested. And then I let her know I’m going to another club, because that’s usually the reason I don’t want to wait around. If I find something better, or something more definite, or more immediate, that’s what I’ll do.


The Girls

I suppose it helps that I am not real picky about girl types, although I am somewhat picky about the particular girl. I don’t have a particular type that I am stuck on. Generally speaking, my tastes are pretty standard. I like curvy, but not fat, blondes with big natural boobs. However, I have had great fun with a very curvy, very busty, dark skinned Amazonian; a petite, incredibly athletic, flat chested, white spinner; an almost Rubineque Latina, a white tattooed MILF, a cheerleader type Blasian with caramel skin, and the list goes on. The age range: 22 to 39, looks range 6 to 8. What I really don’t like is a fat, flabby belly. That is an automatic disqualifier for me. I like a nice face and a pleasant personality. She doesn’t have to be the best looking stripper in the room to attract my interest. Every girl has good points and bad points: great ass but small tits, nice tits and ass but not the greatest face, very pretty face but slightly overweight, etc. I take a holistic approach: what it the total package? If it adds up to 6 or higher overall, I may be interested. A fun, engaging personality really counts for a lot in my book.

I guess my point is this: if you insist you will settle for nothing less than a Playmate of the Year quality dancer, then you have just drastically limited your options and the odds of success in striking a deal for OTC. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not suggesting I take whatever is available. I have turned down OTC offers from girls that didn’t strike my fancy. Every girl I have gotten together with has had something about her, physical or personalitywise, usually a combination of both, that really appealed to me.

Negotiation

This seems to be the single most popular topic on this site with regard to OTC: how to bring up the subject and conclude a deal. A lot of the stuff on this site sounds like the pitiful whinings of love struck teenagers trying to muster the courage to ask a girl to the dance for the first time. As a number of posters have said, you just have to muster the balls to ask, but I also think there is an element of timing. Responding to “Wanna dance” with “No, but will you come to my hotel and fuck me?” probably isn’t going to work.

I very rarely engage with a “wanna dance” girl at all. Typically, they are very focused on making money quickly and don’t even offer the best dances, so my response is almost always no. I say “almost always” because I may make an exception for a super hot girl in a crowded club, but that is usually a one and done test drive that isn’t going to lead to OTC anyway.

I want at least a brief exchange of pleasantries and some chatting to see if there is any kind of connection. No, I’m not looking for a girlfriend, or even a GFE necessarily, but if things are going to lead to something OTC, both parties need to have the opportunity to able size each other up. From my perspective, I want somebody who is sociable and entertaining. That isn’t a problem for most strippers since they are in the entertainment business. However, I have had some that just kind of sit there in awkward silence. That doesn’t cut it. I’m not a particularly outgoing person myself, so I need someone who comfortable with that and sociable enough to make up for what I lack, and there are plenty of girls who can do that. It’s a plus for me if they talk dirty and get handsy pretty quickly, but not all do that.

From the girl’s perspective, she needs be comfortable with three things: (1) that I am not law enforcement, (2) that I am not a psycho who is going to hurt her, and (3) I have the money to pay her. She can be reassured on all of these things at the same time and it doesn’t have to take very long. I don’t try to do anything special. I spend money on her, but not necessarily a lot. I will buy her a couple of drinks, if she is drinking (not all do). If I’m eating, I’ll offer to buy her something. I don’t flash a roll of cash, but I try to tip the wait staff well, although not extravagantly. I chat with her about whatever bullshit she wants to talk about. If she is good at her job, she will have an endless stream of stuff to talk about. If she is called to the stage, I will go to the stage and tip her well, but again nothing extravagant, maybe $3 or $4 dollars per song, maybe a little more if no one else is tipping. I will buy a few dances from her, but I usually wait for her to ask first. I just do what I always do in a strip club, and this seems to satisfy them, or at least it satisfies the ones I have been successful with.

Sometimes, the girl asks me about OTC. This doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. If it doesn’t, at some point, if the club has one, she will probably ask about going to a VIP room. I find this to be a good opportunity to bring up OTC. I don’t have any certain words or phrases that I use. I’ll just respond that I would rather continue our fun back at my hotel. Obviously, if the club doesn’t have a VIP room, then this natural segue won’t occur, so I choose what I feel is an appropriate time and ask if she is interested in going back to my hotel. There are only three possible responses: an immediate yes (rare); an immediate no (common), or noncommittal (common).

I don’t try to convince an immediate “no” girl to change her mind, but I don’t take it as an insult or get mad. If I have gotten to the point of asking her about OTC, that means I find her attractive and have been having a good time with her, so I just thank her for keeping me company, and it's genuine. Of course, this assumes she has given me a polite no, which is what will happen the overwhelming majority of the time. I can only recall two occasions where I got a loud Stripperweb “I don’t do that kind of thing” response. Even then, in a loud club, no one else hears it anyway, and I have never had a dancer complain to a bouncer or try to have me ejected. I’m not sure what the complaint would be, anyway. At that point, no money has been discussed, so I have not proposed anything illegal. At most, I have been crass, but that’s not illegal.

If the response is noncommittal, I have to decide if I have the time, money or inclination to try to turn it into a yes. It may be that she hasn’t gotten fully comfortable that I’m not law enforcement or a psycho, but that’s not likely. I think those hurdles are jumped pretty quickly. I think (again just my opinion) that it may be the psychological thing I talked about before: she thinks of herself as a stripper, not hooker. She doesn’t want to say yes the first time she is asked. So maybe with a little more time, another drink, and a little more chit-chat, she will say yes. Of course, it’s also possible her noncommittal response is just a ploy to keep me in the club spending money on her. There’s really no way to tell, so if I have the time and money, I’ll probably play along for a while and see what happens, but not too long. I might spend another half-hour with her, and then announce I am leaving. This forces her to make a decision, and she may well say yes. If so, now it’s time to talk details.

By details, I don’t mean details of sex acts to be performed. Most understand that going to your hotel room entails, at a minimum, a CBJ and CFS. Once, after getting to the room, I found out the girl didn’t do FS, only BJ, but I was okay with that. Maybe if you must have certain things, you should get some explicit confirmation in advance, but that might be a little tricky because it could raise suspicions about being law enforcement. I only talked specific activities once because the girl mentioned she would give me a massage, and I wanted to make sure she understood I was looking for more than a massage. Everything worked out okay. Every other time, just an agreement to go my room with no further details discussed has resulted in a great to a mindblowingly great time.

By details, I am talking about money. Sometimes you will get an immediate quote, sometimes she wants you to make the first move. I don’t like to make the first move because its not the best negotiating position to be in, if negotiating is necessary. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. Sometimes she will give you a reasonable first number, other times a very unreasonable one. I’ve had first numbers of up to $600 thrown out, but I’ve never paid more than $300, and not less than $200. I’m sure I could have paid less than $200 on a couple of occasions where that was her first number. I know I could have negotiated down from there, but you know, $200 is reasonable in my book if she delivers good service, and I don’t want her to think she’s being taken advantage of. I want her to feel she is being treated fairly, or more than fairly, for two reasons. First of all, that’s how I like to deal with people. Second, I hope it results in better service. If anything above $300 is proposed, I’ll negotiate. In between, it depends on how I feel. This part of the discussion probably won’t take more than five minutes. My total time in the club to this point has ranged from about an hour to several hours. It just depends. The shorter times have occurred mostly (although not always) when this process started an hour or so before a shift change. Coincidence? I think not.

Logistics

I travel for business, so my hotel is on the company dime. I stay in upper mid-tier to upscale hotels. At some point in our “getting to know each other” talk, I tell her what hotel I am staying at. I think the fact that I am staying at a nice hotel helps reassure her that I actually have money to spend on her and that nothing bad is going to happen to her if she goes with me. However, I don’t tell her the room number.

I usually book a hotel close to the clubs that I know I want to visit, but of course close is a relative term depending on the town, hotel availability, and the clubs. I’ll check in and take a shower before going out.

Some strippers have cars. Most don’t. If the girl I have reached a deal with has a car, it’s simply a matter of agreeing on where to meet. If it’s still relatively early, what I really like to do is have a few drinks with her somewhere else first, either a regular nightclub or pub, or another strip club in town. It’s great fun to go to another strip club with an off duty stripper.

If she doesn’t have a car, she may just get her own taxi or Uber, but she probably doesn’t want to do this because she in this to make money, not spend money on a taxi. She may go in my car if I have one with me, or in the taxi/Uber I call. Most if not all clubs have rules against dancers leaving with customers, so there must be a pretense of leaving separately. This could be something as simple as leaving a couple of minutes apart and meeting a block away.

Back at the hotel, you cannot have any shame. I think it’s pretty obvious what is going on when I get back to the hotel late in the evening with a girl less than half my age who looks like a stripper because she is a stripper. At the type of hotels that I stay at, you must access the interior room doors through a lobby door or exterior doors that are usually locked after about 10:00 or 11:00 p.m. and must be opened with your room key, so someone probably sees you come in, either in person or on camera. A lot of people may see you if there are some late check-ins in the lobby. I always walk the girl out of the hotel, too. Once, there were a lot of late check-ins, men and women in the lobby. I walked through the lobby with a very curvaceous, young, tatted up blonde wearing a short skirt and a tight tank top. It felt like the women were looking at me with disgust and the guys were looking at me with envy, but maybe it was just my imagination. Anyway, if the possibility of this happening bothers you, then maybe OTC isn’t for you.

Sometimes the girl will want her money when she gets to the room. I know the rule here is never pay for anything up front. If she is actually in my hotel room, I will make an exception if she asks and pay her. She has taken a risk, and is still exposed to risk, so if that is what it takes to make her comfortable, I’ll do it. Maybe it will happen sometime, but I haven’t been burned yet. I’m not even sure this is really an exception to the don’t pay up front rule because all I have asked her to do is to come to my room, which she has done. Even if she doesn’t ask, I have gotten in the habit recently of doing what a girl asked me do a while ago: I place the money in a clearly visible place, i.e., on the dresser or night stand. If I do this soon after we get to the room, she sees, doesn’t ask me for the money, and usually just leaves it there until she is ready to leave.

Usually, the girl is with me for about an hour. Sometimes she will want to stay the night, but this is pretty rare. I don’t like to do this because I usually have to get up early. I have done it on occasion, but it can be risky. Check out my Baby Dolls Dallas review dated July 30, 2016, and remember the old Johnny Rivers song, Secret Agent Man: “A pretty face can hide an evil mind.” Keep your guard up and secure your valuables. If the room has a safe, I recommend putting your wallet in it, or leaving your valuables in your rental car, if you have one. Occasionally, you will see stories in the newspaper about strippers who have arranged OTC with customers just so they can be set them up to be robbed by their pimps or boyfriends. I don’t think that’s likely to happen at the type of hotels I stay in because, after 10:00 or 11:00, no one gets past the front door without a room key. Even before the doors are locked, some thugs walking into one of the hotels that I usually stay in would stand out like sore thumbs. Nevertheless, it can’t be ruled out. That’s one of the reasons I never give out my room number until she is at the hotel. Actually, I never give it out. I just take her to the room.

Conclusion

Well, this turned out to be much, much longer than I anticipated when I started writing it. There’s a lot of detail about some of my personal experiences, but I guess it can be boiled down to a couple of points. Near the end of a shift change seems to be a good time to talk about OTC. I spend a little bit of time getting comfortable with the girl and, more importantly, letting her get comfortable with me. She needs to know I am not going to bust her, hurt her physically, or burn her financially. She might also need to get the impression that this is not strictly a business transaction (even though it is). Then I just ask her.

45 comments

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avatar for merlin05
merlin05
8 years ago
Great article. Thanks for writing.
avatar for MrDeuce
MrDeuce
8 years ago
Well done! After about a dozen OTC dates myself, I'm still learning the ropes. Your article gives me many ideas on improving my OTC game.
avatar for alldaylong
alldaylong
8 years ago
Well done. Instead of focusing on a system, the focus is on the qualities. Qualities that get you where you're headed. Surprise, surprise it's not all about money. Money matters, sure. But it's not everything, and it can help make up for a lack elsewhere.
avatar for Jascoi
Jascoi
8 years ago
good instructions. advanced stripclub 303. exam in one week.
avatar for rogertex
rogertex
8 years ago

" I walked through the lobby with a very curvaceous, young, tatted up blonde wearing a short skirt and a tight tank top. It felt like the women were looking at me with disgust and the guys were looking at me with envy, but maybe it was just my imagination. Anyway, if the possibility of this happening bothers you, then maybe OTC isn’t for you."

Too funny !

Agree with all OTC fans - escort is a cheap substitute for a stripper with a smokin body.
It's more work compared to FKK in Germany, or Terma in Brazil - but its as good as it gets here.
avatar for GoVikings
GoVikings
8 years ago
it probably took me 20-30 minutes to read this, but i'm not the fastest reader. i'm glad you wrote this though, its very thorough and well written.

never done the OTC thing, but i've always assumed women would be very hesitant (because of safety reasons, as you mentioned in this article) to meet up with random dudes OTC, ESPECIALLY if its the first visit and they haven't built any rapport with the guy.......but i guess strippers are just bigger risk takers

good read
avatar for JuiceBox69
JuiceBox69
8 years ago
Excellent article and beautiful tips on OTC.

I frequent clubs mainly in the mid level as you speak and this will be very helpful my friend.

One of the tips I'm going to start using is renting higher quality rooms. It makes a lot of since after reading this.

I'm also going to stop grooming dancers for months and start growing some balls and asking sooner.

avatar for JuiceBox69
JuiceBox69
8 years ago
I also frequent just below mid level clubs as well...the ones just above Dives and have noticed that the percentage of yes and quicker as well..hell even a higher volume of dancers asking before I ask

Mid and higher level clubs does seem to be a very low percentage of yes like you said 30% or even 20% will even consider a yes
avatar for ATACdawg
ATACdawg
8 years ago
But....but....deploying The System is successful 35% of the time vs 30% for using your non-System! How can you justify that, lol?

Seriously, an interesting read.

avatar for JuiceBox69
JuiceBox69
8 years ago
Lol !!!!
avatar for clubdude
clubdude
8 years ago
Very good read.
avatar for gammanu95
gammanu95
8 years ago
My business trips mirror you're closely in hotel standards and duration, so I found a lot of good, employable information in your article. Sadly, we tend to set up group rates in places with glass elevators. Any of my colleagues could see me taking the elevator with not-my-wife to my room. It may be that OTC is not for me.
avatar for DoctorPhil
DoctorPhil
8 years ago
quite the not-a-system and it can’t hurt that you are not real picky about girl types, but there is a much shorter TUSCL not-a-system system:

1) offer enough money
2) don’t be an axe murderer
3) no gravy breath, gravy stains or any mention of gravy at all

* many prostitutes are flexible and will consider an axe murderer but #3 is always 100% non-negotiable
avatar for AverageJoePDX
AverageJoePDX
8 years ago
Great write up. Thanks for taking the time!

What are your thoughts about the connection between house fees and willingness to OTC? I too typically choose mid-tier clubs and one of them has what I think is a pretty low house fee of about 10% on 3 fers and VIP. I'm not sure what the flat fee per shift is but I get the feeling that's pretty reasonable as well.

This may not strictly be relevant to this article because you may not know what the house fees are the first time you visit a club, but I think this might have a direct impact on your success rate. Or at least on the price you negotiate.
avatar for James1557
James1557
8 years ago
I agree with your article. I am British and all my OTC experience has been in England. Once in London a club closed early because business was poor and the girl I was with said 'It doesn't have to' when I said 'It's a pity the night has to end here'. But that has only happened to me once; and the actual OTC experience, whilst OK was not particularly good. Otherwise my experience of talking about OTC, and of actually doing it, have been very much along the lines you describe. I am currently occasionally seeing one girl OTC when I am in her area.
avatar for testcat
testcat
8 years ago
Great article, thanks for taking the time to write it. It mirrors many of my own observations over the years (I'm a little older than you), as well as my OTC hookups as well, the most recent being two weeks ago, which turned out to be fantastic!
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Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
Nice write-up; long but filled w/ good info and no fluff thus a good read; I'm sure it would be helpful to many that are not experienced OTCers.
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JuiceBox69
8 years ago
I'm good at adding fluff papi LMFAO
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Nixur68
8 years ago
Good article, but damn do you hit up clubs way earlier than I expected.
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JuiceBox69
8 years ago
I like hitting the club at 6am lol
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san_jose_guy
8 years ago
In our local clubs, there are girls who do OTC regularly.

Then we have an underground circuit, and most all of the girls there are openly promoting OTC, a harder core group.

For myself, all my communications with women will always treat them as civilians, and in all situtaitions.

SJG
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larryfisherman
8 years ago
Good solid article.
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HungryGiraffe
8 years ago
Enjoyed the article.

I'm cautious about same day OTC after being burned a couple times. In the first case, I paid the stripper after she showed up at my hotel room. We were settling in and I went in the bathroom to start running a shower for her. She called out to me she had to go down to a car to get some special soap. She never returned.

In the other case, the stripper arrived at my hotel with me and got right in the bed with her street clothes on. She wasn't interested in any kind of make out. Turns out the chick was a bit nutty. I let her rest for a few hours then dropped her off at a motel where I suspect her fellow sex-trafficked colleagues were staying.

The caution about not paying up front is real. I also think the caution about not giving out the room number is important too. The ROB who played the soap trick could easily have given the room number to an accomplist and let him in my room. I learned it's important to watch carefully whether there are other people involved in driving the stripper to the hotel, or waiting for her. Once had a stripper rush through the meetup because someone, probably her pimp, was waiting for her outside.

Those bad experiences aside, I've enjoyed some really awesome OTC experiences. The best are the ones that evolved into Sugar Baby relationships involving overnight stays and dining out.
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vajmon
8 years ago
Excellent article. Well written and on point. A few things based on my experiences...

Type of club- I've had the greatest success rates at 2 types of clubs. First, clubs known to have some form of "extras" available ITC. Duh! The second type is not obvious, clubs that have very strict no touching rules and where absolutely no extras are available. Dancers will try to sell me a CR at these lame joints and I make it known to them that I have $$$ but know nothing will happen ITC so I'm not going to waste my money there. Occasionally this leads to either an outright offer of OTC or she'll give me some sort of signal that OTC is available.

Type of girl- Maybe my experience here has been affected by my attraction to college aged ladies but IME the closer the girl was to 18, the higher my success rate. I've found that younger ladies are both the biggest risk takers and the most open to trying new things (like pay 2 play). Once strippers hit 25 or older they seem to become jaded and turn into "professional strippers" who think of it as a career with all kinds of rules and limits (like no OTC). IME overall they also want more $$$ for less in return. JME. Anyway because of this I don't write of non-alcohol clubs as this is where many under 21 y/o ladies work.
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rogertex
8 years ago
vajmon - interesting tips.

Getting OTC out of a no-extras club. W
ould not have imagined that and hence seldom visit such clubs.
But you've had good results.

Your second tip - I'd have thought younger dancers would do a lot more ITC (being a newb) - but rarely entertain OTC.

"Once strippers hit 25 or older they seem to become jaded and turn into ... "

Ha Ha - not just strippers. All women. Their innocent outlook on men and life is shattered. A sweet spot tough is 28-30. Even strippers feel insecure during these two years.
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malort
8 years ago
Great article, thanks. A lot of your advice could be used for just meeting women in general LOL. Be clean, neat, confident, don't bullshit, don't be a chicken shit.
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Conundrum
8 years ago
Great article. Enjoyed reading it.
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SCreviews
8 years ago
That was more than I've read in the last 5 years combined lol
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JuiceBox69
8 years ago
I jizzed myself on this One
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PuffieLvr
8 years ago
Great article, and consistent with my experiences. You never quite come out and say this, but what I see here is that you're confident what you're doing. Knowing what you want and not being a confused mark goes a long way toward making the girl comfortable with the idea. Being classy and patient, and working on the connection before trying for OTC is the way to go IME.
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wallanon
8 years ago
TL;DR until I scanned the comments. Then I read it bottom to top. The first two paragraphs were what made me skip it the first time. It's obvious a lot of effort went into this article, though, so thanks for sharing.
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AnonymousJim
8 years ago
One of the things about the age range piece is that ladies 18-22 are less a little -- not much, just a little -- less apt to have kids. OTC is a lot tougher for the single mom who has to get back home to take care of the little ones.

I once had an OTC experience with a dancer who had a teenage daughter. She looked much younger than her age. By that point, she could let her daughter be at home on her own.

Great article. I actually wrote a similar one just today without reading down to see you had posted one like this. I promise, I wasn't trying to plagiarize, but I think I'll end up saying a lot of the same things you will.

The big thing to keep in mind is that, even with this very good advice, you still have a baseball-like batting average of .300. Guys should remember, that means you'll still fail 7 times out of 10. You can do everything right and the girl still won't do it, just because. That's OK.
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BBFAN
8 years ago
@doctorevil-best read I've had in a long time. Extremely informative and well written.
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Roadworrier
8 years ago
Great read @doctorevil. Over 25 years of mongering, I've had one OTC with a long-time ATF (last year) , who while lapping me in the 30-min private cabana at her club whispered I could have her OTC for the price of the cabana if I were staying in the area near the new club she was working during the week. Sure enough, a short time later, I texted her, we agreed to the deal, I stayed one night near the new club, and she came down after her night shift. We were together all night, showered together, played around in bed, slept, ate breakfast, and she had to go home to her dog and pick up the kids at her ex-husband's, etc etc. Given the literally several dozen hookers I managed to bed in every position while working in Dubai in the 2000's (for the same or less money, though generally for less time), I can definitely say my ATF from the strip club did not do a hooker experience. She provided a nice GFE (just like she did in the club but more relaxed) but wouldn't do straight in-out. Certainly for the price I usually pay for the cabana, my money indeed went farther in terms of time and attention, but it wasn't "let's fuck". I haven't done OTC with her since, but still see her every couple months or so at her club and she still gives me by the far the best, boundary-pushing, lap dances of any gal in any SC and a still intense GFE.

Bottom line that I would add to the article's conclusions is there is no guarantee that hot stripper you've known for a while who comes to your hotel room is going to magically turn into a hooker.
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Dlee305
8 years ago
I did OTC but from comments, I won't read all of that but the success rate is better with clubs where no ITC extras are going down. Still they want that money. My last OTC left a bad taste in my mouth so idk if im interested in doing plus I gotta lady.
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Book Guy
8 years ago
Nice article, thanks for the point-of-view, Dr. Evil. :)
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joc13
8 years ago
@AnonymousJim yeah, the kid thing and no extras thing both factor in. Was working on setting up a steady OTC thing with a CF on the basis of "the VIP room isn't very comfortable here, and wouldn't you rather get all the $ instead of the club taking a big chunk" but then two things ruined it:

1) she had kids and only had child care arranged for the nights she worked, so seeing me would mean skipping a shift and she wanted enough $ to cover the entire missed shift, instead of just what she would have gotten from me in VIP

2) GPS. Her tastes quickly jumped from bar food at the club and a "more comfy place to play" to super expensive fancy restaurants​ and $700 a night hotels.

I liked her a lot, but not that much.

If I could actually get a dancer to pay any attention to me at the pretty-much-no-extras-anymore club that I like, I think the whole "I know nothing is going to happen in VIP, so if you want my money let's talk OTC" approach just might work.
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Subraman
8 years ago
I didn't get through the entire article, read about half and then skimmed faster and faster, but overall, good stuff! Agree with a lot of it, have some different perspective here and there. Here is one thing you and I agree on, but I'm not so sure is shared by many PLs here:

-->"By details, I don’t mean details of sex acts to be performed. Most understand that going to your hotel room entails, at a minimum, a CBJ and CFS. Once, after getting to the room, I found out the girl didn’t do FS, only BJ, but I was okay with that. Maybe if you must have certain things, you should get some explicit confirmation in advance,"

For the most part, I'm the same way. I specifically say "back to my hotel room", but only sometimes go into any further detail, with the exception being, if there's something I MUST have, then I make sure we agree on it explicitly. If a girl only does BJ instead of FS, as long as I'm ok with the price, I'm fine with it.
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rh48hr
7 years ago
Very good article. I enjoyed reading it. Lots of good info and entertaining stories.

The point about no shame is spot on and in reality if you have a hot chick on your arm there shouldn't be any shame. You need to strut through there like Ric Flair!
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san_jose_guy
7 years ago
Good article. Yes, there is really no system. But also it is never just as simple as "paying hookers for sex". My position is that the most important thing is that you never do or say anything which suggests that you see your girl as a prostitute, semi-prostitute, potential-prostitute, or anything else like that. So long as you adhere to that, they are happy to fuck you. I found this out decades ago, my first time trying to get personal with a dancer. At first it was "*I* don't go out with customers." But then when she saw that I was just treating her like an ordinary girl, and that I was being frank and honest with her, she became almost apologetic. Next night, coming home to find her voice on my answering machine. And all because I was the only guy she'd met there in a long time who was not treating her like P4P.

You can still give them money so long as they understand that it is not buy off or hush money, it's more like care and concern money, or even mistress maintenance.

But the fantasy of getting the girl you see on stage, or you see parading around, is powerful. See, Want, Get. I call it the King Herod The Great Power Trip. You get to have the girl who sparked your fancy on that day. And you get to have her dressed and painted up exactly as you first saw her. Strip clubs are our society's version of the ancient worlds pagan temples.

Best is if you can do her right there on site, for the first round or two. So best if she doesn't need to change her clothes or shoes, and no need for motor vehicle transportation, or to worry about where her car is. So you just take her by the hand and promenade her to the place. Never letting her out of your sight, or even out of your grip.

So where you take her will have a bathroom and a shower, and her other stuff is safely in her locker.

Maybe they have TJ style robes for the girls for when you walk her across the parking lot.

But you only get this See Want Get experience, selecting her as the one who floats your boat, ONCE!

After that, you'll be seeing her by appointment.

I am tied down locally now. But later I plan to be traveling. I'll be setting it up with the girls to do lingerie photo modelling sessions. So they will be dressing and painting up for me, and these will lead to long multiple round over nighters, with cell phones turned off and lots of time to talk. And I'll be having them keep in touch with me by text and emails in the interims. I'll be seeing each of them about once every Moon.

So to have more See Want Get, it will be in new clubs in new towns.

Again, Good Article!

SJG

She's A Lady
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReL9dmYD…

first page of sheet music
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd…

complete guitar tabs
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/t/tom_j…

This song looks to be entirely diatonic, and so much of it is sung over Em.

The bridge is all major triads, and seems to constitute a key change, likely to Bb.

I remember reading a discussion once of the transitions in popular music as being either 1. harmony changes, 2. mode changes, or 3. key changes. But as to what distinguishes one from the others, I am still not clear. And then I don't think that classical music lends itself to such analyses, as it is more varied.
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aham5
6 years ago
2 years later.... is your price range still 200-300? Or has inflation moved the numbers?
avatar for doctorevil
doctorevil
6 years ago
200-300 is still the sweet spot, but I’ve had a couple demand, and get, $400.
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Papi_Chulo
6 years ago
"... I don’t wear the “perv wear” collection as described by Papi Chulo. I’ve been going to strip clubs a long time, long before I joined this site, and that’s just not me ..."

I see perv wear similar to gym-wear - I like to be comfortable for what I'm gonna do - and for me I'm not much of an OTC-guy - I enjoy getting lots of dances in the club from many different dancers and I like heavy-grinding dances - thus for me the perv-wear helps in me enjoying the ITC action which is heavy on dances - also the dancer having easy-access to the joystick can often make the ITC visits for me more-enjoyable - again for me it's pretty-much all about the ITC action - for me perv-wear is more of a function over form thing.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
6 years ago
1) since your writing, have you pulled OTC from highend clubs you were previously unsuccessful at or didn't try, as well as dives - if so how it'd go?

2) have you had any unpleasant OTCs or ones that have gone sideways as in "that was a total waste of $$$ and time" or maybe even a potentially dangerous situation like a dancer flipping out?
avatar for doctorevil
doctorevil
6 years ago
Papi: This is a very late response as I didn’t know I had a recent comment, but the answer to both the question is no. I am still sticking mainly to mid-tier places, so that’s where I’ve had my luck. Unless you consider someplace like Tootsies or Baby Dolls high end. I don’t. I consider them upper mid, but not really high end. I’ve had a couple where she wanted to meet for drinks or dinner and then pushed for payment up front. Needless to say those didn’t go anyhere, but nothing really scarey.
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