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doctorevil

Evil Lair

I have been lurking on the discussion board for some time. I don’t know if I’ll ever post there because of all the nonsense that goes on. However, I noticed one of the most popular subjects there is OTC. I understand why it’s such a popular subject: It’s the ultimate strip club experience—the fantasy of pretty much every guy who goes to a strip club: take that dancer that struck your fancy out of the club and fuck her. As one recent post here put it, “the caviar of the sex industry.” I agree completely. In my opinion, extras in the club are a dim, weak second. There are endless posts about how to arrange OTC, fretting about being rejected, fear of being ejected from the club, what “system” works, how much does it cost, etc. I think I have been relatively successful arranging OTC trysts, so I thought I would throw out a few observations here in an article.

First, my perspective: I travel a lot for business on short one or two day trips. That’s when I do most of my clubbing. I have seen posts about spending multiple club trips and hundreds or thousands of dollars over several days, weeks, or even many months grooming a particular stripper in preparation for “popping the question” and proposing OTC. That won’t work for me. I don’t have the time for such preparation, even if I was so inclined (I’m not), nor is it necessary. For Christ’s sake, you’re not asking her to marry you. All of my OTC ventures have resulted from a single club visit and first interaction with a particular dancer. I don’t have a CF, ATF, DS, etc., nor do I want one. On a few occasions, I have had follow up OTC sessions with the same dancer, but only after an initial OTC session that resulted from our first meeting. I’m almost sixty years old, slightly overweight, but in otherwise fairly good shape. I don’t think I’m ugly, but I have no illusions about being some kind of chick magnet. I’m just your average late middle aged PL. Or am I considered old now?

Second, let me state up front, this is not a “system.” I don’t have a system. What I have are observations about the circumstances that seem to generate good results. What are good results? I’m not keeping notes, but my success rate it probably about 30%. In other words, about one-third of the time that I actually ask, I am successful in arranging OTC. I don’t always ask for any number of reasons: lack of interesting girl, lack of time, lack of funds, etc. Maybe other people have better success rates, but from seeing some of the posts, I seem to be doing better than many. Anyway, I ask a lot, so I am satisfied with the results.

Even though I don’t think there is a “system” to this, I don’t think it’s as simple as paying hookers for sex, as some have suggested. Some strippers may well be nothing more than hookers who dance as a means of advertising their availability, but I don’t think that’s true of most. Nevertheless, many clearly are hookers. If she is going to have sex with you in exchange for money, she is a hooker. However, just because she is a hooker does not mean she will do OTC with you. Some strippers will do extras in the club, which make them hookers, but will not go for OTC.

I think, and it just my opinion of course, that even many of the strippers willing to do extras, do not view themselves as hookers. I think, again just my opinion, that they believe if they keep their activities in the club, they are not really hookers. If they go to a hotel room with you for money, they can’t escape the hard reality that they are hooking. I have had several tell me, after agreeing to go OTC with me the first time we met, that they “never do this type of thing” or “I never go with a customer the first time I meet him.” Of course, I don’t believe that for a minute. But I do believe that they want to believe it, even though they know it’s not true. Okay, enough armchair psychoanalysis.

Personal Hygiene and Appearance

I’m talking about yours, not hers. This should be a no brainer. If you have been doing hard manual labor, before you go the club, take a shower. And brush your teeth if you just ate a chilidog with extra onions. I don’t do manual labor for a living anymore, so this is not much of an issue for me. However, if I have time, I still take a shower anyway before heading out. I have had several dancers compliment me for smelling clean—not smelling good, just clean. I don’t use cologne. I just shower with soap and use underarm deodorant. Could it just be stripper shit? Of course, but I don’t think it is. Those same dancers also complained to me about how some guys come into the club with bad body odor and how they hate to give them dances. Does that mean they won’t do a dance or possibly even go OTC with someone with BO? Of course not. If they want the money, and enough is offered, they will. But if the choice is between someone who is relatively clean and someone who smells like yesterday’s garbage—that’s not hard to figure out, is it? Don’t walk into the club with an obstacle that you could have easily eliminated.

My typical dress is blue jeans and a polo shirt, sometimes a graphic T-shirt. Occasionally, if I have just finished work, I’ll be in business casual or even, very rarely, a suit and tie. I haven’t noticed any difference in the way dancers interact with me depending on how I dress. In the places I like to go, they certainly are not more interested in a guy (or at least me) in a suit in tie. If anything, they may be somewhat more standoffish, but I don’t wear a suit and tie enough to have statistically valid basis of comparison.

I’ll just sum up this section up by saying I go the club clean wearing clean, normal looking clothes. I don’t wear the “perv wear” collection as described by Papi Chulo. I’ve been going to strip clubs a long time, long before I joined this site, and that’s just not me. Would it make a difference, and if so, positive or negative—who knows? Again, these are just my own personal observations of my own experiences. By the way, I have had at least once dancer tell me that I should wear shorts when I come to the club. Again, that’s just not me, so I don’t. That’s not an OTC issue, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

Type of Club

I like to go to mid-tier level type of clubs. That’s where I have had success with OTC because that’s the type of club I frequent the most. What do I mean by a mid-tier club? My definition is one that’s not in a ghetto neighborhood, even though it’s not necessarily in the high rent district, and has decent but not extravagant décor, generally nice looking girls mostly in the 4 to 8 range or better, well maintained, with primarily blue collar clientele. I’m thinking of places like Wackos in Jacksonville, or most of the clubs in the Daytona Beach or Cocoa Beach areas. I have also had some success in fairly upscale type clubs, like Baby Dolls, Dallas, or Tootsie’s in Miami Gardens. It doesn’t matter to me whether it’s a nude club, topless club, or even just a bikini club, with one exception: I don’t like nude, no alcohol clubs.

I also occasionally visit truly high-end clubs, think Flight Club, Detroit, or the Thee Doll House in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, but I don’t really like those types of places as much as I do a nice mid-level club. Yes, the décor is top notch and the girls look great, but you pay (overpay) for it and the vibe can be somewhat stuck up. I’ve never done OTC with a dancer from a true high-end club. I have only raised the subject once in a high-end club, and was turned down. I either didn’t have the time, money, or didn’t get the vibe that it would be worth asking the other times, so I didn’t. But I don’t even go to these types of places very often.

I actually prefer dives to high-end clubs, but I haven’t done OTC with a girl from a true dive bar, either. I don’t visit them as much as mid-tier clubs, but if it’s a real dive, they probably don’t have a girl that looks good enough to interest me, or at most, they have one or two good looking girls who may stayed tied up with other customers. So, for me, mid-tier is where the action is.

Timing

If there is a system at all, I think it has to do with timing. I think the best opportunity to strike a deal for OTC is near the end of a shift. Unlike most businesses where the employer pays its employees work, strippers must pay the club to work. As soon as they walk in the door, they owe money to the club. The amount of the club fee varies by club and other factors, but the bottom line is the dancer is not likely to agree to go OTC with you at the beginning of a shift when she has not made much money and may in fact still owe the club money. Even if she wanted to and has already made up the club fee, club rules may not allow her to leave soon after starting a shift and she could be fired for doing so.

I prefer to go to a club within a couple of hours of the end of the dayshift, which of course will vary from club to club, but usually is somewhere between 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m., depending on when the club opens. This works out for me since I usually work a typical 9 to 5 schedule, at least when I am traveling. However, some clubs don’t have day shifts. Some don’t have shifts at all and let girls come in at any time, but this seems to be pretty rare, and even then there are usually rules about how long they have to stay. And of course, I can’t always do day shift either, or may have done day shift at one club and moved on to another that is well into the night shift, but that’s not my personal preference because I usually either have work or a flight the next morning.

Whatever the shift is for the girl I’m interested in, by the time it is getting close to the end of it, she probably knows if she has made her monetary goal. If not, she may be interested in OTC to make up the shortfall. Even if she has made her goal, she may be interested in OTC for some easy additional money. But, in my experience, it’s extremely unlikely she will agree to leave for OTC shortly after she has arrived.

Sometimes I have had a girl agree to OTC in the beginning or middle of a shift, but say she wanted to finish her shift, or at least get close to finishing it, and would meet me at the hotel afterwards, or something similar. First, you need to recognize that this may well be stripper shit, and she could be saying this to keep you in the club spending money on her with no intention of meeting you anywhere later. However, it is not necessarily stripper shit. I have been stood up a few times, but more often than not, a dancer that has told me this has followed though and met me later. Obviously, you won’t know which it is until you are back at the hotel at the appointed time, and you either have your dick in your hand or you have a handful of pussy (with acknowledgement to Donald Trump). So, as has been said many times here before, don’t pay for anything up front.

By the way, not following through on OTC is a two way street. A couple of girls have told me that they have agreed to meet guys for OTC who have chickened out or changed the minds for whatever reason. That’s probably part of the reason they are reluctant to leave before the end of their shift. If they allow it at all, most clubs have increased club fees or fines for girls who leave early, so if you agree to meet a girl OTC for a price, convince her to leave early, and she holds up her end of the bargain, and you are a chicken shit and don’t hold up your end, you have cost her money, and not just the money you didn’t pay her. She has also lost out on the money she could have made if she stayed and worked, and she may have paid a club fine, too. So don’t be a chicken shit.

If a girl does agree to meet after her shift, but there are a few hours to go, you have a couple of options. You can stay at the club until her shift ends, but don’t expect her to stay with you the whole time, unless you are spending money on her the whole time. If I stay a the club, I make it clear, or she makes it clear, that she doesn’t have to stay with me and is free to circulate and make more money. However, it usually doesn’t take a lot to keep the girls happy at the places I like to frequent. Sometimes they are happy if you just keep buying them drinks and maybe an occasional dance. I don’t mind buying the girls drinks. I have had great fun on occasion sitting with a dancer getting drunk together and waiting for her shift to end, and the post-club fun with a drunk (but not too drunk) stripper can be mind blowingly good. By the way, I am referring to normal drinks, not overpriced “dancer drinks.”

But even if you stay and wait out the end of the shift, that doesn’t mean anything is guaranteed. You could wait out the end of her shift for several hours, spend a lot of money, and she could still end up finding some excuse to not follow through, or she could just disappear into the dressing room never to bee seen again. That’s why I like to make the arrangements near the end of a shift, so the follow through is pretty much immediate. But if it’s not the end of the shift, and I don’t want to wait around, I’ll exchange numbers and ask her to text me when she gets off and confirm she’s still interested. And then I let her know I’m going to another club, because that’s usually the reason I don’t want to wait around. If I find something better, or something more definite, or more immediate, that’s what I’ll do.


The Girls

I suppose it helps that I am not real picky about girl types, although I am somewhat picky about the particular girl. I don’t have a particular type that I am stuck on. Generally speaking, my tastes are pretty standard. I like curvy, but not fat, blondes with big natural boobs. However, I have had great fun with a very curvy, very busty, dark skinned Amazonian; a petite, incredibly athletic, flat chested, white spinner; an almost Rubineque Latina, a white tattooed MILF, a cheerleader type Blasian with caramel skin, and the list goes on. The age range: 22 to 39, looks range 6 to 8. What I really don’t like is a fat, flabby belly. That is an automatic disqualifier for me. I like a nice face and a pleasant personality. She doesn’t have to be the best looking stripper in the room to attract my interest. Every girl has good points and bad points: great ass but small tits, nice tits and ass but not the greatest face, very pretty face but slightly overweight, etc. I take a holistic approach: what it the total package? If it adds up to 6 or higher overall, I may be interested. A fun, engaging personality really counts for a lot in my book.

I guess my point is this: if you insist you will settle for nothing less than a Playmate of the Year quality dancer, then you have just drastically limited your options and the odds of success in striking a deal for OTC. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not suggesting I take whatever is available. I have turned down OTC offers from girls that didn’t strike my fancy. Every girl I have gotten together with has had something about her, physical or personalitywise, usually a combination of both, that really appealed to me.

Negotiation

This seems to be the single most popular topic on this site with regard to OTC: how to bring up the subject and conclude a deal. A lot of the stuff on this site sounds like the pitiful whinings of love struck teenagers trying to muster the courage to ask a girl to the dance for the first time. As a number of posters have said, you just have to muster the balls to ask, but I also think there is an element of timing. Responding to “Wanna dance” with “No, but will you come to my hotel and fuck me?” probably isn’t going to work.

I very rarely engage with a “wanna dance” girl at all. Typically, they are very focused on making money quickly and don’t even offer the best dances, so my response is almost always no. I say “almost always” because I may make an exception for a super hot girl in a crowded club, but that is usually a one and done test drive that isn’t going to lead to OTC anyway.

I want at least a brief exchange of pleasantries and some chatting to see if there is any kind of connection. No, I’m not looking for a girlfriend, or even a GFE necessarily, but if things are going to lead to something OTC, both parties need to have the opportunity to able size each other up. From my perspective, I want somebody who is sociable and entertaining. That isn’t a problem for most strippers since they are in the entertainment business. However, I have had some that just kind of sit there in awkward silence. That doesn’t cut it. I’m not a particularly outgoing person myself, so I need someone who comfortable with that and sociable enough to make up for what I lack, and there are plenty of girls who can do that. It’s a plus for me if they talk dirty and get handsy pretty quickly, but not all do that.

From the girl’s perspective, she needs be comfortable with three things: (1) that I am not law enforcement, (2) that I am not a psycho who is going to hurt her, and (3) I have the money to pay her. She can be reassured on all of these things at the same time and it doesn’t have to take very long. I don’t try to do anything special. I spend money on her, but not necessarily a lot. I will buy her a couple of drinks, if she is drinking (not all do). If I’m eating, I’ll offer to buy her something. I don’t flash a roll of cash, but I try to tip the wait staff well, although not extravagantly. I chat with her about whatever bullshit she wants to talk about. If she is good at her job, she will have an endless stream of stuff to talk about. If she is called to the stage, I will go to the stage and tip her well, but again nothing extravagant, maybe $3 or $4 dollars per song, maybe a little more if no one else is tipping. I will buy a few dances from her, but I usually wait for her to ask first. I just do what I always do in a strip club, and this seems to satisfy them, or at least it satisfies the ones I have been successful with.

Sometimes, the girl asks me about OTC. This doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. If it doesn’t, at some point, if the club has one, she will probably ask about going to a VIP room. I find this to be a good opportunity to bring up OTC. I don’t have any certain words or phrases that I use. I’ll just respond that I would rather continue our fun back at my hotel. Obviously, if the club doesn’t have a VIP room, then this natural segue won’t occur, so I choose what I feel is an appropriate time and ask if she is interested in going back to my hotel. There are only three possible responses: an immediate yes (rare); an immediate no (common), or noncommittal (common).

I don’t try to convince an immediate “no” girl to change her mind, but I don’t take it as an insult or get mad. If I have gotten to the point of asking her about OTC, that means I find her attractive and have been having a good time with her, so I just thank her for keeping me company, and it's genuine. Of course, this assumes she has given me a polite no, which is what will happen the overwhelming majority of the time. I can only recall two occasions where I got a loud Stripperweb “I don’t do that kind of thing” response. Even then, in a loud club, no one else hears it anyway, and I have never had a dancer complain to a bouncer or try to have me ejected. I’m not sure what the complaint would be, anyway. At that point, no money has been discussed, so I have not proposed anything illegal. At most, I have been crass, but that’s not illegal.

If the response is noncommittal, I have to decide if I have the time, money or inclination to try to turn it into a yes. It may be that she hasn’t gotten fully comfortable that I’m not law enforcement or a psycho, but that’s not likely. I think those hurdles are jumped pretty quickly. I think (again just my opinion) that it may be the psychological thing I talked about before: she thinks of herself as a stripper, not hooker. She doesn’t want to say yes the first time she is asked. So maybe with a little more time, another drink, and a little more chit-chat, she will say yes. Of course, it’s also possible her noncommittal response is just a ploy to keep me in the club spending money on her. There’s really no way to tell, so if I have the time and money, I’ll probably play along for a while and see what happens, but not too long. I might spend another half-hour with her, and then announce I am leaving. This forces her to make a decision, and she may well say yes. If so, now it’s time to talk details.

By details, I don’t mean details of sex acts to be performed. Most understand that going to your hotel room entails, at a minimum, a CBJ and CFS. Once, after getting to the room, I found out the girl didn’t do FS, only BJ, but I was okay with that. Maybe if you must have certain things, you should get some explicit confirmation in advance, but that might be a little tricky because it could raise suspicions about being law enforcement. I only talked specific activities once because the girl mentioned she would give me a massage, and I wanted to make sure she understood I was looking for more than a massage. Everything worked out okay. Every other time, just an agreement to go my room with no further details discussed has resulted in a great to a mindblowingly great time.

By details, I am talking about money. Sometimes you will get an immediate quote, sometimes she wants you to make the first move. I don’t like to make the first move because its not the best negotiating position to be in, if negotiating is necessary. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. Sometimes she will give you a reasonable first number, other times a very unreasonable one. I’ve had first numbers of up to $600 thrown out, but I’ve never paid more than $300, and not less than $200. I’m sure I could have paid less than $200 on a couple of occasions where that was her first number. I know I could have negotiated down from there, but you know, $200 is reasonable in my book if she delivers good service, and I don’t want her to think she’s being taken advantage of. I want her to feel she is being treated fairly, or more than fairly, for two reasons. First of all, that’s how I like to deal with people. Second, I hope it results in better service. If anything above $300 is proposed, I’ll negotiate. In between, it depends on how I feel. This part of the discussion probably won’t take more than five minutes. My total time in the club to this point has ranged from about an hour to several hours. It just depends. The shorter times have occurred mostly (although not always) when this process started an hour or so before a shift change. Coincidence? I think not.

Logistics

I travel for business, so my hotel is on the company dime. I stay in upper mid-tier to upscale hotels. At some point in our “getting to know each other” talk, I tell her what hotel I am staying at. I think the fact that I am staying at a nice hotel helps reassure her that I actually have money to spend on her and that nothing bad is going to happen to her if she goes with me. However, I don’t tell her the room number.

I usually book a hotel close to the clubs that I know I want to visit, but of course close is a relative term depending on the town, hotel availability, and the clubs. I’ll check in and take a shower before going out.

Some strippers have cars. Most don’t. If the girl I have reached a deal with has a car, it’s simply a matter of agreeing on where to meet. If it’s still relatively early, what I really like to do is have a few drinks with her somewhere else first, either a regular nightclub or pub, or another strip club in town. It’s great fun to go to another strip club with an off duty stripper.

If she doesn’t have a car, she may just get her own taxi or Uber, but she probably doesn’t want to do this because she in this to make money, not spend money on a taxi. She may go in my car if I have one with me, or in the taxi/Uber I call. Most if not all clubs have rules against dancers leaving with customers, so there must be a pretense of leaving separately. This could be something as simple as leaving a couple of minutes apart and meeting a block away.

Back at the hotel, you cannot have any shame. I think it’s pretty obvious what is going on when I get back to the hotel late in the evening with a girl less than half my age who looks like a stripper because she is a stripper. At the type of hotels that I stay at, you must access the interior room doors through a lobby door or exterior doors that are usually locked after about 10:00 or 11:00 p.m. and must be opened with your room key, so someone probably sees you come in, either in person or on camera. A lot of people may see you if there are some late check-ins in the lobby. I always walk the girl out of the hotel, too. Once, there were a lot of late check-ins, men and women in the lobby. I walked through the lobby with a very curvaceous, young, tatted up blonde wearing a short skirt and a tight tank top. It felt like the women were looking at me with disgust and the guys were looking at me with envy, but maybe it was just my imagination. Anyway, if the possibility of this happening bothers you, then maybe OTC isn’t for you.

Sometimes the girl will want her money when she gets to the room. I know the rule here is never pay for anything up front. If she is actually in my hotel room, I will make an exception if she asks and pay her. She has taken a risk, and is still exposed to risk, so if that is what it takes to make her comfortable, I’ll do it. Maybe it will happen sometime, but I haven’t been burned yet. I’m not even sure this is really an exception to the don’t pay up front rule because all I have asked her to do is to come to my room, which she has done. Even if she doesn’t ask, I have gotten in the habit recently of doing what a girl asked me do a while ago: I place the money in a clearly visible place, i.e., on the dresser or night stand. If I do this soon after we get to the room, she sees, doesn’t ask me for the money, and usually just leaves it there until she is ready to leave.

Usually, the girl is with me for about an hour. Sometimes she will want to stay the night, but this is pretty rare. I don’t like to do this because I usually have to get up early. I have done it on occasion, but it can be risky. Check out my Baby Dolls Dallas review dated July 30, 2016, and remember the old Johnny Rivers song, Secret Agent Man: “A pretty face can hide an evil mind.” Keep your guard up and secure your valuables. If the room has a safe, I recommend putting your wallet in it, or leaving your valuables in your rental car, if you have one. Occasionally, you will see stories in the newspaper about strippers who have arranged OTC with customers just so they can be set them up to be robbed by their pimps or boyfriends. I don’t think that’s likely to happen at the type of hotels I stay in because, after 10:00 or 11:00, no one gets past the front door without a room key. Even before the doors are locked, some thugs walking into one of the hotels that I usually stay in would stand out like sore thumbs. Nevertheless, it can’t be ruled out. That’s one of the reasons I never give out my room number until she is at the hotel. Actually, I never give it out. I just take her to the room.

Conclusion

Well, this turned out to be much, much longer than I anticipated when I started writing it. There’s a lot of detail about some of my personal experiences, but I guess it can be boiled down to a couple of points. Near the end of a shift change seems to be a good time to talk about OTC. I spend a little bit of time getting comfortable with the girl and, more importantly, letting her get comfortable with me. She needs to know I am not going to bust her, hurt her physically, or burn her financially. She might also need to get the impression that this is not strictly a business transaction (even though it is). Then I just ask her.