discussion comment
16 years ago
Like everything on this board, it depends, it depends, it depends. If someone is not comfortable with the English language, our conversation is going to be more limited. If I have nothing in common with the person, it's more of a challenge. If I spend more time with the person, gradually people let down their barriers and there is more to discuss. Generally it tends toward talking about "the biz" but not always. Chatting in the bar itself is difficult for me (the background noise, loud music etc. makes it hard for me to hear), but OTC I find I can have real conversations with them. It just depends.
discussion comment
16 years ago
shadowcat: Would you mind telling me what inspired such an intemperate remark? I believe the last thing I posted about you was agreeing with what you said. I've actually been leaning toward thinking kindly of you, sort of like a randy old uncle. Is there something I said to you or about you lately that caused this ejaculation of bile?
discussion comment
16 years ago
The discussion is confusing me a little. Is this more satire? I put the condom on in the lapdance/vip room. When I go in the room with the girl, she takes out my dick, she puts on a condom, and then she gives me a blow job, hand job or we have sex. Why is that so difficult?
discussion comment
16 years ago
evilcyn: I don't want to put you in the position of being the National Spokesperson for Stippers, but just speaking for yourself, are you talking about getting guys off with a handjob or blowjob, or are you talking about getting them to pop in their pants? Because I'm with shadowcat on this one, I don't think I could blow my wad in my pants if my life depended on it.
discussion comment
16 years ago
David: you don't know anything about my income or status in life or even what I do for a living (and I won't be sharing that information, or any information of a personal nature, on a site like tuscl), so you are being pretty presumptious in assuming you have more money than I do (and that, of course, is making the heroic assumption that you are an adult male, and not a 14 year old girl). What makes you a fool is that -- regardless of your purported income -- you are spending way too much money on something you could get for a lot less, so you are being fleeced by the folks in the club. I don't particularly mind that (although, as I have stated before, guys who do not know how to manage their money make things difficult for the majority of guys who have to know how to manage their money). But what proves you are a eunuch -- and not the strutting alpha male you pretend to be -- is that even with all your purported wealth being tossed around (you claim in another thread to be spending $50K a year on the hobby) a bartender feels perfectly comfortable treating you like a shithead, and knows well management won't take any action against her for her disrespct. And that, David, is because no one else in the club respects you either. And the cherry on top is that you proved they were right -- instead of treating the situation like a man who knows who knows how to handle people, your lame response is to stick a $20 bill in her face. You were mugged by a girl who had a weapon no more dangerous than sharp words. You're not an alpha male horndog who knows how to attract women -- you're a loser with a fat wallet who doesn't know shit about women, and can only get a woman to give you the time of day by paying her tons and tons of money. And even that is giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that what you post on this site is not just the fevered fantasy of a child.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Oh, this explains it. I have him on ignore.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I understood what the phrase meant. I just wasn't sure why you brought it up.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Bobby
Of course you are correct that "nice guys" (another elastic
phrase that will mean different things to different people)
can have no difficulty in attracting women. The evidence of
that is all around us. As for your reference to "body count"
I am not sure why you brought that up, but in any event, I agree
each guy gets to measure his success by his own standards.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Ah, no, David, you're a wuss. Spending $5K on a single dancer in a short time span told everyone at the club that you were a fool. They laugh at you behind your back, something we'd easily confirm if you ever posted a review. And then when you respond to being abused by giving money to your abuser -- that tells everyone that you're a doormat as well as an ATM. The folks at the club will continue to tolerate you only so long as your cash continues to flow into their hands. Once that stops they'll take your sorry ass and toss you out the door. But the good news is that when that happens you can go to www.eunuchs.org, which is a support group for guys like you who don't have any balls.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Yes, David, lots of interesting things happen when you whip out your gentleman horndog vibe and toss around the money a bit. Like when you spent $5000 on a single stripper and yet the bartender still called you a punk and cursed you out. That IS interesting. Primarily it must have been interesting to have a bartender treat you like a leper after you blew $5K at her club. Mortifying actually might be the word. Or humiliating. Embarassing. Emasculating. And then you showed her what an alpha male gentleman horndog you were by giving her $20. Wow you got game. Tell me are all women turned on by eunuchs?
discussion comment
16 years ago
Bobby: my apologies for not catching the satire. I'm afraid tone does not come thru very clearly in written communications. But I should have assumed it was satire, because your posts are usually reasonably sensible.
Bookguy: you are a tough case. I was actually wondering about the Aspergers so I am glad you mentioned it. Wish there was a quick fix for finding one's way in life, but there probably isn't. I do think regardless of anything else you should not try to be anything other than who you are, consequences be damned.
discussion comment
16 years ago
jablake
If someone wants to monger at a ridiculously expensive rate, who am I to complain? It's good for the economy (although there is an argument that careless guys who don't know how to handle their money drive up the prices for everyone else). But I think a customer like that is viewed as a fool by the staff (including the girls). And I think it is laughable that someone spending thousands of dollars could not get even the most basic respect from a bar tender. I've never had a staff person at a club disrespect me for anything. And most of all, I think it is ROTFLMAO hilarious that someone is so clueless with women that he responds to a chick being angry with him by shoving a Jackson at her. That is really pathetic.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Jesus David, it's worse than I imagined. You dropped five grand in a matter of a couple weeks on a single dancer at a single club? That would make you a sucker (not to mention a walking ATM) in the eyes of everyone at that club. Christ I don't spend that much on the hobby in the span of several months, and I hobby pretty regularly. Let's see, I got laid yesterday for 80 bucks. If I spent your kind of cash, I could get laid by about 60 different girls for the $$$ you're spending on one chick. Yikes!
And yet, still, after spending all the money the bartender -- of all people! -- cursed you out and called you a punk?!? And that just for telling her she looked like an ex-dancer?
David, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the lesson is that no one in that club respects you at all. They think you're a doormat. And, in fact, given that you responded to being abused by the bartender by giving her money proves you are a doormat -- a masochist in fact. You couldn't think of a better way to handle an angry woman than by shoving money at her? Gawd, you are an ATM.
Honestly, David, if you spent $5000 on a single dancer at a single club in a span of a few weeks, the girls (including the bartender) should be forming a conga line to suck your dick -- even if your dick is only 3 inches long. Lol. If you got treated like shit after dropping that much cash, I think you probably should stop giving advice to Bookguy on how to attract women. I don't think he can afford to be an "alpha male" like you.
David, the girls at that club (including your ultra hot ultra young girl) are laughing their asses off at you behind your back. (Maybe that's why you don't post reviews -- you'd rather not have anyone go to the same club to hear the dancers laugh about the fool who spent $5000 on one dancer.) For the sake of the male half of the species show some self respect. I think the alpha male thing is over the top, but surely you should at least avoid being a eunuch.
discussion comment
16 years ago
C'mon Bobby, when was the last time you went in the VIP room with a girl you didn't know, and just grabbed her by the hair and shoved your cock down her throat? Give me a break. Why don't you try that tonight -- here's betting you get your cock bit off.
The problem with all of David's posts, with all due respect, is that they are a crock of shit. Not a crock of shit because David may be making everything up for all we know. Not a crock of shit because David's incessant musings about alpha males and seed spreading are, in reality, just lame vehicles for him tell us what a james-bond-like-sex-machine he is. Not a crock of shit because no one here can even say what an "alpha male" is in a modern world (is it the big loud obnoxious blow hard? or the soft spoken polite intellectual who crushes his enemies?) And it's not a crock of shit because there are not some women who like to be sexually dominated -- there are; indeed, some women will literally beg to be sexually dominated, tied up, fucked in the ass and have cum on their faces.
No, David's endless posts on this subject are a crock of shit for pretending even for a nanosecond that your level of "game" has anything to do with getting strippers to spend time with you. It just doesn't. They don't care. All they care about is making money (and not getting killed or arrested in the process). You can be really nice to them, you can be a real "alpha male" to them, it doesn't matter either way they'll suck your dick and let you fuck them. They all know we're patrons of strip clubs and pay money to watch women dance naked and have sex with us, so from their perspective, we're all perverts anyway. Even if they made a big distinction in their non-work lives between "nice guys" and "alpha males", they are not going to engage in the microscopic line drawing necessary to separate the "perverts who pretend to be nice but are really slime balls" from the "perverts who act like jerks so they can pretend to be alpha males." It's all the same to them. You think you're manipulating them? Bullshit -- they're manipulating you.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Just so we're clear, I am not urging you to get married. It's the right thing for me, but it is not the right thing for everyone, and it is obviously not the right thing for you. Respectfully, I don't think the fact that I am happy to be married is akin to being a drug addict. I'm sure on reflection you did not really intend for your analogy to come out that way.
discussion comment
16 years ago
jablake
You've obviously had a bad experience with the family court system, as you've indicated in several posts. As someone who has been through a divorce, I can empathize. But I don't think that means all marriages are bad or miserable or bound to end in divorce. Many do end in divorce, but not all. There are happy marriages out there. Marriage is not for everyone (and it's obviously not for you), but for some people it is the correct choice.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I think the OP is an insightful one. I think a number of things are going on here.
I think a lot of men (not all) have a strong desire/need to sleep around. So even if they are in good, stable relationships, they will still want sexual variety with other women. I know I fall into that category. It may not be rational (and it may not be "nice") but it is the way a lot of men are built, and I don't think anything will ever change that. Prostitution has been around for a long, long time, which tells me the demand has always been there.
I also think -- apart from the desire for variety -- men in relationships get things from sex workers they don't always get fromt their wives/girlfriends. Sometimes it's very basic. If a woman won't blow her husband, then he may seek blowjobs elsewhere; same for guys who want kinkier sex. Sometimes it's more subtle. Personally I love it when a stripper/escort does little things like helping me get undressed or dressed; giving me a massage before or after the sex, etc. That level of attentiveness and even worshipfulness is pretty difficult to expect on a daily basis from someone you've been married to for years. But it's not at all unreasonable to expect someone you've hired for the occasion to treat you like a king.
I also think guys like the hunt. Once you've already bagged a girlfriend or wife, there's nothing left to hunt. Again just from a personal perspective, I like the idea that I may wake up today, and before the end of the day will find a girl somehwere to fuck, even though I've never met her before in my life. That's part of the reason I like fucking girls ITC, even though it is generally more expensive. I like walking into a place and finding someone completely new. It's a hunter instinct and we all have it. Notice arbeeguy's specific analogy to hunting -- exactly right. We enjoy the process of getting to fuck the stripper just as much as fucking the stripper.
Sadly, in my view, some guys are also using the strippers/hookers as substitutes for civilian relationships. These guys are not cheating on their wives or girlfriends. They have no wives or girlfriends to cheat on. It is very common to see guys in strip clubs who are lonely old men or pathetic geek losers. Those are the guys who are always (even if in the back of their subconscious minds) going to be harboring the delusion that they will find "love" in the club. They are the ones who will get horribly taken advantage of by the girls, and will engage in any kind of desperate behavior to win some token of their approval. I have had strippers I've fucked who've confessed to keeping 2 or 3 "boyfriends" on a string who shower the strippers with money and gifts, while she sells her pussy to her customers. Pretty heartless.
Last but not least, overlapping all of this is the need for fantasy as part of the equation, no matter why you go to a club. That's why the strippers dress up; that's why they have the music and the dim lights; that's why they have the fake names and the fake boobs. Everyone buys into the fantasy and suspends disbelief, just like when you go to the movies. It's part of the entertainment, part of the draw, part of what keeps us coming back.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I have known women who, just like lopaw, identify themselves as lesbians, but nonetheless occasionally have sex with men. In my view, this is no different than the women I know who identify themselves as straight, but sometimes have sex with women. Personally, I do not have a problem letting women (or men) identify themselves as they wish. So if a woman wants to say she's a lesbian, even though once in while she has sex with men, that's fine with me. But I think both examples show women's sexuality is much more fluid than men's. I think you would find very few men who call themselves straight who once and a while have sex with guys.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I do think strippers (and customers, by the way) lie all the time. But I don't think she was necessarily lying in this instance. Strippers and escorts will sometimes in the moment decide to go beyond their normal boundaries, depending on how they are feeling at that moment about that particular customer. I've had strippers/escorts suddenly cross lines they said they wouldn't cross and there wasn't much of an explanation beyond that's just the way they felt. Given the way you describe this (the suddenness of her action) I think she was probably telling you the truth -- most of the time she does not suck a customer's dick, but she felt ok about it at that moment and so she did it. She obviously did it knowing there was no assurance of payment. If she had pulled out your dick and said, "I'll suck it if you give me another $100," then clearly that would be an upsell. But that's not what happened, so I think she was being honest.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Dudester's comments about his evidence that lesbians carry a trainload of emotional baggage is amusing. I guess lopaw could say all straight men carry trainloads of emotional baggage. How does she know this? Because she's on this site called tuscl where the posters are almost all straight men, and they are all fucked up in 50 different ways.
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
I totally agree with AN's post.
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Well, we now have another significant admission by David: there is no actual science to support what he is saying. (With re to AN's post: as he notes, it does not show women are attracted to cheaters. It only shows cheaters have sex with more partners. Well, no duh.) Yet, David assures us, we just know it is true, because we can "deduce" it on our own. And people who disagree with him (that is, who point out he has no evidence) are accused of trying to "shout him down."
Apart from how ridiculous this argument is, I hope everyone is familiar with the history of racism, and understands that these type of pseudo-science arguments have been used for decades (actually back into the 19th century) to justify the murder of Jews and the sterilization of Blacks. Sociobiology is just the "science" of racism (going all the way back to phrenology) in modern guise. There is a good reason why sensible people reject junk science --- because it is junk.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Oh, c'mon you know the point of this post. He's just hoping we'll slap him on back and say, "yeah, Shadowcat, go for it. Fuck her! You lucky old dog!" That's pretty much the point of all of his posts.
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
BookGuy: Children do play this game; mine did so from an early age. My oldest always wins, no matter what, and no matter who is playing. I don't know why; he just always wins. As a result, no one in our family will play it anymore, because we always know the outcome.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I know the real point of this post is to talk about Shadowcat's potential sexual opportunities; nonetheless, I will take the headline of the OP seriously.
Women's sexuality is generally much more fluid than male sexuality. Some researchers conducted a study on how men respond to pornographic images (both naked pics and pics and videos of people having sex). They found that straight men are sexually aroused by pictures of naked women, and images of women and men having sex. I know, you're shocked. They also found that gay men were aroused by sexual imagery of gay sex and naked men. Again, no surprise there. The interesting part concerned men who described themselves as bisexual. Turns out they were really no different than the gay men. They were aroused by the gay porn; they were not aroused by the straight porn. The researchers did not say this, but a lot of folks in the field think bisexual men are really just gay. Male sexuality is pretty much one way or the other; you are gay or you are straight.
The same researchers repeated the same study, but with women. They published their results just a few weeks ago. For lesbians, they largely tracked the results for gay and straight men. That is, lesbians were sexually aroused by sexual imagery of women.
The interesting part concerned straight women. Turns out they were just as likely (perhaps even more likely) to be aroused by sexual imagery of women as men. A straight woman would not be aroused by pictures of a sexy naked man, but would be aroused, say, by an erotic dance of a woman. Generally, the study showed that supposedly straight women were aroused by the eroticism of the images, regardless of the gender of the people involved.
When you think about it, evidence for this conclusion is all around us. There is very little porn specifically for straight women. For example, Playgirl magazine is actually primarily consumed by gay men, not straight women. (Lesbians, on the other hand, do have sexual and semi-porn magazines aimed at lesbians.) Go look at a magazine rack of women's magazines, and what do you see on the cover? Pictures of beautiful sexy women. The marketers for these magazines clearly figured out long ago what the researchers confirmed: Women -- straight women -- clearly like looking at pictures of women, including pictures that are sexualized.
While not a scientific study, obviously, my personal experience bears this out. Of the straight women I have known well enough to inquire, a clear majority have admitted to being sexually attracted to other women. And a significant minority have actually had lesbian encounters.
Likewise in reverse, by happenstance I have known well dozens of lesbians in my life. The majority of them have spent some time toiling in the fields of heterosexuality. A typical example: I know a woman who dated only guys throughout high school and college, and then married her college boyfriend. Then she got divorced, and for years was in lesbian relationships. Then she met a guy she totally fell in love with and was with him for a few years. She would have married him, but he dumped her. Then she went back to being a lesbian. Then she met and fell in love with a woman who was becoming a transexual -- hormone therapy, breast removal. This woman had a vagina, but otherwise looked exactly like a guy. If you met him, you would have believed he was male. So what was this woman's sexual orientation? Obviously, "all of the above."
Even with women who are self-described lesbians their whole lives, they usually cross the street once in a while. I had a 3-4 month affair with a lesbian. The whole time, she kept her girlfriend (in fact, she would call her gf on the phone after we had sex and tell her about it; uh, gee thanks). She was very much a lesbian; if you met her, you would immediately spot her as gay. But she loved to be fucked, loved getting fist fucked, and especially loved taking it in the ass. (But she would never ever suck dick. Go figure!) But she was a lesbian.
A lot of the strippers I've met purport to be bisexual or to have had bisexual experiences. Just think of our old friend wondergrl. I don't think strippers are more likely to be bisexual; I just think they are more likely to be open about their sexuality (duh!).
So, the short answer is yes, lesbians can sleep with guys sometimes; straight women sometimes sleep with women; and generally female sexuality is much more fluid than male sexuality.