discussion comment
17 years ago
I'd allow the girl to set her own dance prices; $20 being the minimum.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Bobbyl, that's a nice generalization, but one that does not apply to me.
Shadowcat, take a Xanax. What do you care what I make or "claim" to make? If your getting more for less, good for you. Enjoy it, and stop fussing whenever you're faced with the reality that there are still strippers out there making good money without crossing legal boundaries.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Book Guy:
My calculations are not simply based on what the price "ought" to be based on "a simple exercise in multiplying." At my club, I charge $300 to $400 for an hour in the Champagne Room ($300 if it's an exeedingly slow night). This excludes extras and none of the money goes to the club. Now the market value for something along those lines may differ in Tessie's area, which is why I set a range that I consider reasonable. Of course, if a guy wanted dances OTC or wanted extras ITC or OTC, I'd probably give some outrageous price, like $5,000. But that's simply because I have no desire to participate in any OTC activities or any activities that involve extras.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm not a dude. I'm a dancer. And yes, I think $500 is fair. Let's say (ITC) the average dance costs $20 and lasts 3 minutes: one hour of dances would cost the customer $400. Tack on another $100 for security (as I would insist upon bringing large, burly man to stand outside the door for safety purposes), and there you have it: $500.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Tessie,
I've never done dances OTC, but I think anywhere from $300-$500 would be appropriate, presuming no "extras" are given.
discussion comment
17 years ago
In my opinion, the dancer in question MUST like and respect you (despite what she claims) in order to say such things. I've said similar things to regulars when their spending seemed, to me, out of control (based on what I had gathered about their budget). I don't want to destroy anyone's life and when I see the potentiality of that happening, I try to distance myself. If a gentle push doesn't suffice (such as leaving a regular waiting while I spend time with a customer who spends far less), I will resort to interrogation: (a) Why do you go to strip clubs?, (b) Why aren't you married, (c) Why have your past relationships failed?, etc... Generally, I don't resort to this sort of questioning unless I genuinely think that the customer in question (a) craves an authentic romantic relationship and (b) could achieve such a relationship. Now, if it's clear to me that this is NOT what the customer wants, and that he truly prefers a no-strings-attached, customer-dancer relationship, I'll let it be...
For some, spending money on dancers is not a waste. For others, it is. It's up to you to determine the sort of relationships you wish to have, and those you don't.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Bones,
My loyalty would lie with the dancers who, like me, choose not to break any local, state or federal laws. It's just not as simple as you make it out to be.
Above all, I would want to protect the dancers who conduct their work in a legal fashion. Secondly, I would want to protect the CUSTOMERS who choose not to participate in any illegal activity. Thirdly, I'd want to protect the venue in which I conduct my business (the club). If anyone is breaking any sort of "honor code," it is the dancers who are putting their fellow co-workers, innocent customers and their very own club at risk for serious legal ramifications. Personally, I think that two consenting adults should have the right to do as they please, but the law speaks differently (this is a HUGE reason why I support the legalization of prostitution). I have no ethical objections to "extras" (even if I choose not offer them), nor do I look down upon those who participate. However, they ARE illegal, and those who wish not to participate (both dancers and customers alike) should be able to enjoy their personal strip club experience without the fear of being detained in a raid or possibly arrested.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I agree with evilcyn to a certain extent; so long as it's kept discreet, I don't really care what other dancers are doing. Luckily, I work in a club where all the dances are done in large, open spaces that are monitored by both camaras and bouncers (who'll bust us for the slightest infraction, such as taking both feet off the floor); there isn't really an oppurtunity for the dances to get too out of hand. While some girls might allow a bit more touching than others, I have yet to witness any extras. If I did, I'm not entirely sure where my loyalty would lie; you wouldn't want innocent dancers and customers arrested in a raid (nor would you want your club to be heavily fined or shut down), but I also believe that consenting adults ought to do whatever they wish. It's a fine line, for sure...
discussion comment
17 years ago
I consider myself very lucky to have no history of sexual abuse, given the number of dancers I know that do. I'm also lucky to have a great relationship with my father, as well as positive, healthy relationships with the other men in my family.
I also consider myself lucky in that my job has had little to no effect on my personal sexual desire, nor on my overall view of men; I never understood condemning an entire gender based on the behavior of a few.
As far as boyfriends go, I'm not into "bad boys"/deadbeats. I couldn't ask for a more loving a supportive boyfriend; I'm very grateful to have him in my life.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Minnow,
I'd prefer to keep my SW handle to myself; should I feel the need to "rant" about my job at some point, I'd like to do so without worrying about it ending up on TUSCL. I truly hope you understand; sometimes us girls just need a place to vent and seek support. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Typo correction: *I doubt a $400 champagne room seems unreasonable to them, as they often spend $200-$300 for the champagne alone.*
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi jablake,
I wouldn't call what I do a con, I'd call it doing my job and doing it well. My job is to look nice, dress scantily, provide sweet/flirty conversation and build a FANTASY for my guest, not GIVE him/her that fantasy in exchange for money. If beauty and sweet conversation is too overwhelming to the extent that a GROWN MAN can't keep his wits about him, then perhaps that individual shouldn't be going to strip clubs.
Furthermore, I should clarify that that my dances are "low-mileage" by THIS board's standards. At my current club, I'd say that I fall somewhere in the middle compared to my coworkers (but then again, I look for clubs that aren't particularly high-mileage or laden with extras). I don't mind light touching, so long as it doesn't include my breasts or crotch, and I don't mind doing some light-grinding, including rubbing my breasts gently against the customer's crotch. Things I won't do include massaging a customer's penis (outside or inside the pants), "dry-humping" during a dancing, allowing forceful grabbing or groping of my body, etc. I like giving slow, sensual, seductive dances. That's my style, not my con.
And, as I've said before, I don't think that the prices are exorbitant, because unlike the Wal-Mart employees (who seem to be brought up again and again), I'm taking my clothes off and giving private topless dances to stangers. If I wasn't paid a great deal of money to do what I do, I simply wouldn't be doing it. Also, I'm not dancing in MI currently, and the clientele that my club attracts includes mostly wealthy bussiness men on vacation. I've seen many of them spend literally THOUSANDS in a single visit. I doubt a $400 champagne room seems unreasonable to them, all they often spend $200-$300 for the champagne alone.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Actually, FONDL, I think the following is the funniest thing I've read thus far on this board:
"As for MIDancer, I think that she just uses her beauty to con us out of our money." Shadowcat
Again, Shadowcat, a con would imply that I am offering something that I don't deliver. That's not what I do; I don't promise extras because I don't give them, I don't promise OTC because I don't do it, and I don't promise to grind someone's cock into dust because that's not how I conduct myself in the VIP area. Sex is simply not on the menu, and I've been lucky enough to find the clubs where that is still the norm among the girls.
discussion comment
17 years ago
David9999: I'll mention my relationship status, but only if asked. However, I would never discuss my personal sexual life or method of birth control with a customer. Family background is fine fodder for conversation, as is education level.
What I meant by no exchange of information is that I will not take or give information such as phone numbers, addresses, etc.
Shadowcat: Lonely losers? Perhaps, but those "lonely losers" make sure that my bills are paid on time, plus some.
Also, I'm not quite sure how working past "full retirement age" is even relevent to the conversation, since MOST dancers don't make a full career of dancing. Furthermore, given that I'll be starting graduate school in the Fall of 2008, I'm not too concerned about my beauty fading. Let it fade; it'll be of little use to me by 2010. I hope too, that once I begin my career, I'll wish to work past full-retirement age.
And by the way, I love my current job. I'm glad we agree on something. :)
Again, I'm truly sorry that you find it so offensive that some are willing to pay more and receive less than you do. But again, the type of strip-club environment that you prefer is not one that I'd wish to be part of. Sex for money? Fuck that! I'm glad that I have other options that allow me to be a successful and happy dancer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Shadowcat: You have deduced from my relatively few posts on TUSCL that I have "no personality"? I'm fairly certain that most people who've actually gotten a dance from me or spent time with me in a strip club would disagree, but perhaps I should bow to your uncanny psychic abilities...?
And sorry, work isn't about having fun; it's about generating a livable income for oneself in a tolerable fashion. If you get to have fun in the meantime (which I do, since I enjoy my work), then great, but that shouldn't be the primary objective.
Also, if you took the time to actually read my former posts in this thread, you might notice that I possess extreme gratitude and appreciation for those who have made my job enjoyable and profitable.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Bones,
No, I do not escort. My business is restricted entirely to the club: no OTC, no extras (ITC or OTC) and no exchange of information (even with regulars). I don't do any side work.
discussion comment
17 years ago
>>Generally, I don't like the dancer taking a break because I'm trying to get her hot or at least have her fake it i.e. increased heart rate, dilated pupils, etc.<<
My dances generally don't get that heated. I prefer low to medium-contact clubs (limited two-way contact with light, minimal grinding), so my dances are all about seducing a man with the way I move my body, look into his eyes, breath into his ear, etc. So, generally, if I ask to take a quick break, it's not a problem. I'm not the "finishing" type, nor the type to provide "happy endings." Still, many people enjoy my dances (maybe because they're a little different than what they're used to), and some enjoy long stretches of them. However, from the first dance, it becomes pretty obvious to the customer that I possess a certain type of "skill." Some guys totally dig it; others don't. Several guys have told me that I'm a good girl to "warm-up" with before they proceed to another, more intense dancer. That's fine by me, since they still purchase a few dances. I don't like to fake being turned on, and since most customers don't turn me on, my dances are more on the playful side.
discussion comment
17 years ago
BTW, jablake, with regard to your comment about Shadowcat, I don't think I've ever implied that getting paid hundreds of dollars PER HOUR is a consistency in my work life. Generally, I only sell one champagne room per night, and, more often than not, it's only for a half-hour. The rest of the night, I try to average four dances per hour (sometimes three, depending on the crowd). So, MOST hours, I'm making between $60 and $80, plus whatever tips I may receive; that's a far cry from HUNDREDS an hour. Now, PER NIGHT, I expect to make hundreds of dollars, and, on most nights, I am able to achieve that. Why else would I take my clothes off for a living? Despite popular opinion here, it's hardly what I'd call "easy money"; it can be VERY physically and emotionally taxing. If I was looking to make $100-$200 per night, I'd find a nice restaurant to serve at or bartend full-time (or, now that I have a four-year degree, I'd find a "real job"). And if someone thinks they are paying too much or getting too little, they are more than welcome to find another club or another dancer. It has nothing to do with inflating one's own self-worth; if I wasn't getting paid what I thought my TIME (and yes, SKILL) was worth, I'd find another line of work. I think Shadowcat sometimes forgets that not all of us are "trapped" in our line of work and only qualify for a minimum-wage position at Wal-mart.
discussion comment
17 years ago
jablake: When I was a newbie, I was ripped off $360 worth of dances. And at the rate I've seen it happen to other girls, I'm just not willing to take the risk anymore. Now, if I KNOW the customer (either I've talked to him on a few seperate occassions in the club, or I've danced for him before), I generally collect afterwards. SOMETIMES I'll also let it slide until the end of our session if another dancer can vouche for him beforehand (i.e. she's danced for him before, he's a friend of hers, etc.). In all other cases, I collect upfront. I always try to ask in the nicest way possible, because I know how much some customers hate it. While waiting for our song to start I'll generally say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry to interupt our conversation, but we've had a lot of problems with customers ripping our girls off. I'd hate to think you'd do something like that to me, so to negate any and all worry, would you mind paying for the first dance before we start?" Yeah, it sucks, and I wish people could be more trustworthy all the way around, but unfortunately, a few spoil the bunch. If he pays for the first dance upfront, I generally don't ask him to pay for subsequent dances until we're done. If he's getting loads of dances, I do the following: ask for a tiny break to freshen up after 10 songs or so, collect my money, go to the back to put on some fresh body spray, eat a mint, etc., and promptly return back. This has worked for me quite well, as many guys are appreciative that you want to look/smell your best for them at all times.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Shadowcat: I don't understand how you could possibly define me as a rip-off bitch. I don't overcount dances, I don't ask for/demand tips, and I deliver exactly what I promise. If a guy wishes for me to sit for more than one song, then I kindly explain to him that I require compensation. Some guys agree to compensate me for further company, some don't. Regardless, MOST guys are very understanding of this, and will even tip me a couple bucks before encouraging me to "go make my money" (some will even track me down later when they're ready for dances). I've even had guys APPLAUD me for "cutting the bullshit" and getting straight to the point. I am in no way rude or pushy, I simply state where I stand, leaving the customer to make his OWN DECISION with regard to how he'll spend his money. However, I stand by the fact that I'm fully within my rights to conduct my business as I deem fit.
Here's a sample conversation to show what a evil ROB I am (/sarcasm):
"Well, honey, are you ready for a dance?"
"No, not yet."
"Alright then, I have to get back to work. It was really nice meeting you."
"Why don't you sit and chat for awhile?"
"Sorry, sweetheart, but there are other customers who may be ready for a dance right now, and I wouldn't want to leave them hanging. However, if you'd like, I'd be willing to sit for as many songs as you like for $10 per song (half the cost of a dance)."
"You want me to pay you to sit here?"
"Well, honey, I AM at work, and its entirely up to your discretion. If you'd rather not, I'm more than willing to check back with you later if you would like."
"I'd like that."
(By the way, under these sorts of circumstances, I make it a point to ALWAYS check back; even if I won't sit for free, I want our club's customers to feel welcome and attended to).
I'm sorry if it offends you, but when I'm at WORK, I'm at WORK. If other girls wish to sit and socialize, cut deals, etc., that's their perogative, but I make it a point to maximize my income so long as I'm a stripper.
Furthermore, MOST guys who spend two or more hours in the champagne room generally don't go in with the intention of staying that long (or maybe they do, and I just have no idea). Also, selling a two-hour or three-hour champagne room isn't a nightly, or even weekly occurance (I'd say it happens maybe once a month). MOST will opt for a half-hour initially, and in most cases, I have NO IDEA that he just wants to chat. Usually, I find that out when I remove my top and he'll say something along the lines of "oh, you can leave that on," or after we're a couple dances in, he'll say something like, "you know, I'm not really into dances, do you mind if we just chat?" I also have NO IDEA when its going to turn into a two or three hour session. When the bouncer comes to let us know our time is up, I'll simply ask the customer if he'd like to spend more time in the champagne room (while REMINDING him that it costs $200 per half-hour). If he says yes, that's HIS choice. Furthermore, at that point (and generally several times throughout ANY "chatting" session), I'll continue to offer dances. Sometimes he'll say yes, sometimes no, but it is his money, and if he'd prefer dances to conversation, I'll gladly switch gears. If the situation is vice versa, then conversation it is. It is my job to make my costomer happy and comfortable; if dances aren't what he's looking for, then dances aren't what he's looking for.
Also, as far as I know, "stripper shit" is a device used to extract money from customers, and that the term generally connotates some sort of "mind-fucking" or game-playing. Since no one on this board is a customer of mine (and since I'm clearly not looking for customers here, as I haven't so much as indicated where I work), I don't see how my posts are stripper shit. It is not intent to brag about money (what, precisely, would be the point in that?), but to relate my experience as a dancer (experience that some posters have already shown an appreciation for my decision to share) and gain insight from the customer's perspective as well. And as far as the Pink Site goes, I've posted less than ten times in the YEAR that I've been registered. The only reason I still go to the site is to read the other girls' money-making tips in the "Hustle Hut" forum. But as a whole, I find TUSCL far more interesting and informative.
Lastly, your favorite club is not the sort of club that I'd be interested in working at. In fact, I wouldn't care to work at ANY of Top 10 listed on TUSCL. Dancers and customers value different things in a strip club. I value high-end clientele, high dance prices (with no deals), and low-mileage. From everything I've read about your favorite club, you're right, I wouldn't survive there. But by the same token, I wouldn't WANT to. What you would rate a "10," I'd probably rate a "1" or "2."
My overall well-being (mentally, physically, emotionally) is more important to me that all the money in the world; the money I make is due solely to there being enough customers out there who enjoy my dances and my company enough to pay for them. I am very grateful to those men (and women) who allow me to work in this field in a fashion that's healthy and positive FOR ME. I think that the combination of hard work and sheer luck have made this business a profitable one for me, and for that too I am grateful.
But again, when I am at work, I am at work. I am not there to make friends.
Now, that's not to say that I haven't made friends over the years, but even they know I won't spend more than a couple songs with them (or maybe a drink or two), because my priority while I am in that building is to make money. Requiring that I be compensated for my time doesn't make me evil, it simply makes my approach different than some girls.
It also doesn't mean that money is the end-all for me. Just tonight, I paid for a customer's bar tab after his credit-card was declined (wow, what I rip-off bitch I must be). I consider him a friend, but since he never buys dances, I'll generally share a couple drinks with him at the beginning of my shift (when it's still slow), and then be on my way.
Just because I treat my job like a job says nothing about my attitude. My "attitude" has done nothing but make me well-liked among my managers, my co-workers and, most importantly, my customers. I'm kind, honest, professional and fun. I like my job and I do it well. That I WILL brag about.
David9999: In my club, the MINIMUM rate for a half-hour in the champagne room is only $100, plus a bottle of champagne. In my opinion, that's perfectly reasonable, given what most clubs charge. I choose to charge more than the minimum ($200 per the half hour) because, from what I've gathered, that's STILL below what has been deemed market value. I've never considered my prices unreasonable, as the vast majority of guys who spend time in the champagne room tip in addition to what I charge. If they're still TIPPING in addition to the $200, can you honestly say that it's overpriced? I understand that different people have different perceptions with regard to what qualifies as "overpriced," but if people are ready and willing to make the purchase, can you TRULY call it overpriced?
And just to make this clear to anyone who doubts my integrity, I ALWAYS tell the customer the club-set minimum before I tell him my personal price. So, should he think the price unreasonable, he's (again) welcome to make his OWN DECISION. I don't decieve or trick anyone. In fact, I hardly "push" the champagne room at all (unless the customer has already spent a great deal of money on me). I generally let the customer bring it up on his own, or will discuss it when asked what the other "options" are. I'm also entirely honest about what goes on in the champagne room. I explain UPFRONT that the rules are no different, and that the only difference is the level of privacy and the lack of interruptions (due to things like stage calls, showcases, etc.).
I also require my money UPFRONT (since this issue has arose in this thread, I thought I'd address it); I have seen far too many girls come crying and screaming out of the VIP area or champagne room because some customer agreed to an hour-long champagne session or 20-something dances, and either (a) walked out on her or (b) had his credit/debit card decline. The guys who willingly pay upfront (and behave in gentlemanly fashion) will always get my BEST performance. Guys who hem and haw about paying upfront, and then touch or grab me innappropriately, will get my absolute WORST. And the guys who refuse to pay upfront, won't get ANY performance at all. Furthermore, in nearly every club I've worked for, it's club POLICY that you collect your money upfront. Unfortunately, since non-payment has become such a problem (and management can't spend their entire shift chasing down guys who won't pay), they make collecting upfront a RULE. If you choose not to, you're on your own these days. It is also encouraged so that the dancers are free to discontinue a dance if a customer gets out of line. If you don't collect upfront, and a customer gets too touchy-feely and refuses to desist, how awful it must be to feel as though you have to endure his behavior simply so he doesn't get away with disrespecting your boundaries/sexually assaulting you for free (frankly, I'd walk away from the dance regardless, but I know too many dancers that would allow their boundaries to be trampled on for a measely $20). Perhaps the level of mysogynism is so high on this board that many of you don't care, or think you have the right to do as you please during a dance, but perhaps you should think of how it might feel to have to deal with THAT sort of attitude.
discussion comment
17 years ago
No, Bones, it doesn't... and this is precisely why I have never in my five years of dancing done any sort of OTC; if I can get them to pay me that sort of money just to talk to them INSIDE the club, why BOTHER with OTC? The cost-benefit analysis just doesn't pay off in my opinion.
And I disagree, charging for conversation is part of the game... If a guy wants me to sit and chat beyond one song (if asked to, I'm generally I'm willing to sit for a song or less), it will cost him. When I'm at work, my TIME costs money, regardless of whether that time is spent getting a lap dance or chatting at a table.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Two hours of my time at my club would cost $800, plus a bottle of champagne. Most guys will tip on top of that.
Usually when a guy buys that much time, the VAST majority of it is spent sitting and talking. If a guy just wants a long string of dances, he'll generally opt for the half-hour option, or avoid the champagne room all together. I don't $1000 is unreasonable for a four-hour dinner.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I switch between Amber oil and Patchouli oil. Occasionally, I'll wear vanilla-scented body-spray.
discussion comment
17 years ago
jablake: You have to EARN respect; you have to give it in order to get it. If I feel disrespected in any way by a customer, I will be gone from his table or lap faster than lightening and on to my next prospect. I will NOT sympathize or empathize with someone's bad behavior.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I might agree that greed and dishonesty is as prevelant in the government as it is in business, but MY experience in nonprofit has clearly been different than yours, because I saw quite a few people working long hours for virtually no pay just so they could help the less fortunate.
"If greed is the price for that freedom, I'm willing to tolerate it."
You seem to associate your freedom with how you are allowed to spend your money. I don't. I'd rather see the tax-man take half or more in order to FREE people from the fear of not being able to make end's meet. I don't think people should have to worry about their basic human needs, which I consider to be the following: shelter, food, clothes, transportation, child-care, health insurance and education.