tuscl

Can a ROB also be an ATF?

Saturday, February 11, 2023 1:46 AM
Moving this to the open forum. What say you TUSCL? Can a ROB learn how not to be a ROB if a customer gets on her good side? Is it crazy to ever try to ATF a ROB after she ROBs you?

51 comments

  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    I think a dancer can be your atf even if you think she's a rob. She's your atf. You accept her rate and pay it regardless of the internal conflict it causes. The rob dynamic isn't about her. It's about you wanting her eventhough you think she's too expensive. She has no incentive to be cheaper. If you label a girl a rob you'll only end up hurt if you pursue the atf dynamic
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    This is an interesting take. There's more than one way to be a ROB, but I'll agree with you that what somebody agrees to spend on their wants shouldn't be any more than they can afford.
  • Warrior15
    •
    a year ago
    I feel some internal conflict in me. I'm agreeing with Icey. But then, as long as he's not picking a fight with someone or attempting to insult them, he actually has some thing to offer. I agree with Icey. Why not ? You just have to deal with the increased price. If the pussy is that good, you will pay for it and like it.
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    Refresher for those who missed the "DEBATE TOPIC: What is a ROB (Rip-Off Bitch)?" thread in December. Icee was on the thread but posting about something else. [view link] Nothing in the OP said anything about how much was being spent. The question was whether or not a customer should try and ATF a dancer after being ROB'd. Trying to help wallanon fix a problem he doesn't have wasn't the point, but thanks. I'll come back later.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    @wallanon I will play along and comment on your discussion. Q: Can a ROB also be an ATF? A: YES Q: Can a ROB learn how not to be a ROB if a customer gets on her good side? A: YES Q: Is it crazy to ever try to ATF a ROB after she ROBs you? NO necessity. The reason why some girls behave like ROB’s is a sign of the bad economic situation all over the world. Remember it is up to YOU: “You teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop, and what you reinforce.” The best way to approach this situation is with a good sense of humor and getting to befriend the girl so you two can have a good business relationship so you can say sincerely say “it is a pleasure doing business with you” Build a good relationship for you; use positive reinforcement, reward appropriate behavior, and walk away when their behavior is not appropriate. Just find the right balance that works for you, the customer, and buy only what you can comfortably afford.
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    I can see this thread swirling around the same hole because the first reply in jumped to a conclusion. Back in December I wrote: "A ROB makes like she's going to do xyz and then doesn't or drops a big upcharge. Then maybe still doesn't deliver. Wants money for stuff she didn't do. Steals from you. Lies to try and get more dollars."
  • rickdugan
    •
    a year ago
    ===> "Can a ROB also be an ATF?" Answering the question at face value, sure. A ROB who fucks over other people can still be an ATF to me if she behaves with me. I've had a few great favorites over the years who ran a variety of hustles on other guys, but quickly learned that they wouldn't work on me. But with a girl who actually got over on you and thinks you are a mark, that's a much tougher question. Tbh I'd cut her loose. IMO it's a long road to repair her view of you. IMHO it's more likely that she'll just look for another angle to ROB you then to be square with you. In any event, good luck!
  • Specialj
    •
    a year ago
    I think my motto would be once a Rob always a Rob. And with that comes a pathological sense of entitlement and desire for me than one deserves. I personally see no point in pursuing any involvement with a known hustler.
  • Specialj
    •
    a year ago
    Also remember the old saying, screw me once shame on you, screw me twice….
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "The reason why some girls behave like ROB’s is a sign of the bad economic situation all over the world." Probably. If we run with that take, do you respond with ROBbery by turning the other cheek? Do you confront them? Just walk away? There's plenty of strippers in the sea, right?
  • rickdugan
    •
    a year ago
    ^ Ask yourself this: What do you gain by confronting her well after the fact?
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    a year ago
    Is it possible?... sure. Is it likely?... no. If someone tries to rip me off, it's extremely unlikely I'll go back for seconds.
  • Sgtsnowman
    •
    a year ago
    I had an uncle who married a horrible lady. She did all the usual trashy stuff. They divorced, but about every 5 years she would show back up. He would take her back. She would clean him out. The whole cycle would repeat. For decades. She was a ROB. She was his ATF. They can be both.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    @wallanon I will try to answer your question to my comment, and I quote: “The reason why some girls behave like ROB’s is a sign of the bad economic situation all over the world.” Q: Probably. If we run with that take, do you respond with ROBbery by turning the other cheek? A: No; I would let her know I am aware of the “ROBery” and ask her why is she doing it, in a good way, make a funny joke about it. Q: Do you confront them? A: No; I would not confront, I would try to befriend her, asking her if she is OK, or if she is having a bad day. Q: Just walk away? There's plenty of strippers in the sea, right? A: You don’t have to walk away, just learn how to deal in a positive way with the girl. Sometimes, people that are having a bad day, take it on others, and all they need is just some understanding and patience, a friendly attitude. Like that say everyone deserves a second chance. “People can learn from their mistakes—and when you give them a second opportunity, you allow them to demonstrate this. It's practical and saves emotional energy.” :D
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    Wallanon if a girl is stealing from you or pulling a bait and switch. And you choose to have her as an atf. Its on you. People treat us how we allow them to. Hoping she'll like you and treat you better isn't a good strategy
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    2Icee this isn't wallanon asking for advice. That ship sailed many years and girls ago, and I'm already on record as having an ATF that is super shady. That's how I roll because I like to keep things interesting lol. For the third time, this thread is just some red meat to throw out for conversation. Sometimes I do wonder what the rest of you (who actually go to clubs and have some amount of "success" lol) do when you run into one situation or another. But thanks for the speculation.
  • Muddy
    •
    a year ago
    Yes if your a masochist.
  • Hank Moody
    •
    a year ago
    Answering the question literally, no. If she’s still ROB’ing or trying to ROB me, no. I might still be trying to convert her or otherwise make it work, but I just don’t see it feeling good about myself. An ATF makes you feel good.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    Wallanon then make your thread clear instead of accusing me of speculation. If I were in that situation. I wouldn't be able to have a good time if I had to worry about her being sketchy or trying to play me. I'd call her out or if it was me a few years back I'd play her. But it's not worth the energy.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    a year ago
    Idk about atf, but I've definitely been a favorite for a number of dudes and I feel like any girl with any hustle at all is seen as a ROB on this site lmfao.
  • shadowcat
    •
    a year ago
    Not for me. I don't give ROBs a second chance.
  • Muddy
    •
    a year ago
    Let's say your in a small town. 1 strip club. That's it. The lineup is usually a fat chick, a real ugly chick or a ROB that's kinda hot. In that instance maybe I'll look the other way on your very expensive ATF.
  • Muddy
    •
    a year ago
    Matter of fact, we should turn this into a sitcom!
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    a year ago
    Muddy said "Yes if your a masochist." Which immediately brings gawker to mind. His ATF did provide him with amazing sex, but she was also a toxic drain on all of his resources and, to some degree, deceptive and dishonest when it suited her needs. So, if it's your stock-standard transactional relationship that most guys have with dancers, then I stick to my original answer. But when the relationship transitions from transactional to more personal, then the lines will blur.
  • Specialj
    •
    a year ago
    Something else to consider. If a dancer’s MO is to rip-off everybody given the opportunity with the exception of you, it’s perfectly reasonable to assume she would do the same thing to you and it’s only a matter of time before she does.
  • Dolfan
    •
    a year ago
    Depends on your definition of ROB. And ATF Those terms are thrown around here pretty fast and loose. CMI said "If someone tries to rip me off, it's extremely unlikely I'll go back for seconds." and that pretty much sums it up for me. But, like Rick suggested I've had a few girls who had a reputation for being ROB's with others that for whatever reason never tried that shit with me. If a girl rips off others, but is straight with me, there's no reason she couldn't be a favorite. If she's hot enough, and the "rip off" is possibly explainable as an honest mistake or even a miscalculation on her part, there's some chance I'd give it a chance again and if it goes well who knows. No matter what though, the odds of becoming my ATF stripper are pretty low. There's only one ATF, just like there's only one GOAT. Just simple math, the odds of the next stripper I meet being the ATF get lower every time. For those who change ATF's like socks, it's totally reasonable.
  • orionsmith
    •
    a year ago
    It may depend on how pissed off she gets you versus how well she pleases you and how you feel about the mix. If she starts pleasing you on a regular basis without ripping you off, anything is possible. Some dancers got some kind of voodoo sex magic they seem to be able to work on you or parts of your body. Most dancers do not but some do. I prefer not to ever be ripped off. With greedy dancers, chances increase.
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "...but I just don’t see it feeling good about myself. An ATF makes you feel good." Lol. I suppose that's the point. But that's where the body and the brain don't always agree.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    In a normal lesson the body and brain do agree... this thread js as dumb as cacaplops threads. The whole rob argument on here inane.
  • twentyfive
    •
    a year ago
    If she tries to scam me in some way, she won’t be my ATF, I don’t listen to the gossip in the club anymore because it’s always the same one girl that has designs on my wallet will say negative things about whomever is the girl I happen to be with on a particular visit. BTW I only have one ATF, she’s become a nurse and we’re still friends that won’t ever change, she’s my complete favorite in every way, and at 37 she’s still gorgeous and sexy AF.
  • Hank Moody
    •
    a year ago
    Icey, are we talking about the same thing? You seem to be commenting on GPS not ROB. I understood the thread to be about ROBs. GPS: PL - ‘how much to ____ you?’ GPS: ‘I’ll do it for $10k.’ ROB: ‘That was 2 songs.’ when it was 1. or After the dances ‘I charge $40 a song” when the club’s pricing is $20 per and she didn’t tell you ahead of time. A ROB to me is more about the deceit and not about how much money is at issue. Though you can definitely get a supervillain who has both ROB and GPS superpowers.
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "If I were in that situation. I wouldn't be able to have a good time if I had to worry about her being sketchy or trying to play me. I'd call her out or if it was me a few years back I'd play her." That's a perfectly valid take. Just because people aren't having a big debate or insulting each other doesn't make a thread worthless. Thanks for weighing in.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    Jimmymcnulty if we look at a rob as being deceitful. I don't see how that could be enjoyable unless a guy agrees to her terms or gets off on humiliation. I always check for signs or ask management how much everything costs. I'm used to clubs that are very upfront with pricing. I tip but I won't pay more than the listed price. I e called dancers bouncers bartenders out for being deceitful about pricing. It's not about the money it's about the principle and having some pride.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    a year ago
    One thing I've been seeing more of is girls sitting on your lap then saying you owe them for a dance when you tell them you're not interested. I've told them to scam someone else
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    If we go by TUSCL definition: ROB Rip Off Bitch - Dancers who will use any SS or other techniques to get you to pay money to them and then not deliver any or minimal services. They exist because customers don't know how to say no with an erection and think that throwing more money at these girls will improve their situation. These girls should be avoided and called out publicly.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    ATF All Time Favorite - a patron's favorite dancer. Also see PL. So they are not mutually exclusive.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    :D
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    The takes on this went all over the place, which is what I expected. I think from a basic yes/no perspective my answer is "yes" because I ATF'd a ROB, and when that maybe unsurprisingly bit me in the ass she still was (and is) my ATF. I'll also add a little something into the mix that up until other dancers caused drama there were zero problems there. But the question on whether a known and unapologetic ROB should get ATF'd at all is a little murkier. If she reverts to form is the juice worth the squeeze? Is it just reinforcing bad behavior?
  • CJKent_band
    •
    a year ago
    @wallanon Remember it is up to YOU: “You teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop, and what you reinforce.”
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "You teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop, and what you reinforce.” I'm just sharing that I made a choice to ride the wave with a ROB for conversation. Other than gawker there aren't that many guys on the board who took that challenge (or at least "won"), because it defeats the purpose of the hobby to be in a situation that isn't fun. I'd agree with most of what was said about not even trying it. When ROBs are used to getting over on guys year after year they don't make it easy to gain a different result. And then they resent that they caved, so it becomes a cycle of them trying to get back on top. Every situation can be different, but that was my mine. For me the hassle was worth it for a while, until it wasn't. The way I look at it is each guy is responsible for his own fun and the consequences. I get bored, so bending the will of a queen bee to do what I wanted was an interesting challenge. So I played out the string more than once, but then what? Here's the same old disclaimer about this being a question about what you think for yourself. For you lurkers and noobs out there, if you've met a ROB that lights your fire and you think you can tame her, the question to ask yourself is what's at the end of that rainbow. You've got a lot of good input from longtime TUSCLers to read through now. Have fun.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    a year ago
    Wall said "But the question on whether a known and unapologetic ROB should get ATF'd at all is a little murkier. If she reverts to form is the juice worth the squeeze? Is it just reinforcing bad behavior?" For me, an ATF will be someone who has been good to me (and not shady or deceptive) and has provided a great experience from the start. Meaning, I've never needed to be cautious or wary of their intentions. With that being the case, I'm going to say that it's nearly impossible for me to have a ROB convert to ATF. A CF?...sure. Others might approach it differently.
  • rickdugan
    •
    a year ago
    Wall, as I always say, I’ll never criticize how another grown man spends his time and money. But I’m not buying the notion that you really thought you could control or reform her, especially when you were still paying her despite what she did. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you gave her a stern warning about what would happen if she did it again, etc., etc. But then you kept paying her, lol. You’ve been kicking around this thing too long to understand how these girls operate. Your actions spoke far louder than your words. Obviously you tolerated more than you normally would because the sex is good. Hey I get it, but you had to know that sooner or later you were going to have another issue with her. After all she got away with it once and she obviously knew that you liked her pussy, lol. In all the years I’ve been doing this I’ve only seen one true reformation. In a small club I used to frequent, there was a girl who was a notorious ROB. She had more scams than there were days of the month. She even got $30 out of me one time for an early departure fee (which was common at this club) for an OTC event that never materialized, before of course I had a handle on the full scope of her activities. I responded by never spending another nickel on her for a few years following. Not a single stage tip, not any of the proposed OTC outings that she probably would have actually honored and were made in a variety of enticing manners - nothing. Over the years the cumulative effect of her behavior caught up with her, not just with me but also with several other club regulars. Other girls were getting paid on nights that she went hungry. Finally she had an epiphany, which she shared with me one night. She convinced me that she was older and wiser and that there would be no repeats. After that I actually had several good OTC trips with her, but it took all of that for her to change her ways. But short of a truly seminal moment like the one I described above, a thief is a thief is a thief. She has long ago found a way to rationalize her behavior, no doubt relying upon her own past trauma and problems to justify her actions. Each man has to decide for himself what he’s willing to tolerate, but for me it will probably always be a one strike policy. I need a certain level of trust with a girl I'm spending a lot of time and money with. But again everyone has their own approach to this thing, so you'll get no criticism from me about your own tolerance levels.
  • boomer79
    •
    a year ago
    There are girls who will take advantage of an easy mark but will treat a good regular well. YMMV is almost always true in clubs. Different people have different experiences in the same clubs with the same girls.
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "You’ve been kicking around this thing too long to understand how these girls operate." Is that a typo?
  • rickdugan
    •
    a year ago
    Yes lol. I meant that you've been kicking around too long to NOT understand how these girls operate. :)
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    Lol. That actually makes a difference. At least you know I read what you write...
  • Dolfan
    •
    a year ago
    I feel like I gotta ask though. If your ATF is a ROB, how god-aweful are the other strippers in your area? Around here, there's just so fucking many strippers and so many clubs, there's really not a lot of reason to give a dancer who tries to scam a second chance. Or how smoking-motherfucking-hot is that bitch? Or what other superlative is at play?
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    a year ago
    As I’ve often posted I’m not into faves so not that hard for me to blacklist a dancer that’s done-me-wrong and move-on to w/e else the dancer-crew has to offer – given my strong like for variety means I rarely sweat/lust after any one particular-dancer. I find it important to not take advantage of a dancer as IMO their job is hard enough already; but I expect the same in return and for most of my SCing-career it would def really-piss-me-off when a dancer would try to pull one over on me and in the past that would often mean a lifetime-ban from my wallet. As I got a bit older and more-and-more exposed to strip-club bizarro-world, I became slightly more-flexible and would at times give a ROB a 2nd-chance with varying-degrees-of-success (most would play it straight after they realized they couldn’t play me and that I was fair w/ dancers and spent well). I’ve also noticed that dancers can change w/ time/experience (sometimes for the worse; but sometimes for the better) – some dancers that end-up as dancers as a career/longer-time clean-up-their-act – I’ve also been in situations where dancers’ attitudes have done almost a 180 – many of these girls often have serious drama in their personal-lives (often due to a POS S.O./babydaddy; etc) that can often affect how they act in the club; but they can become better dancers when/if they get that drama behind them. In summary – I’ve gone from a lifetime-ban for most of my PL-career, to giving 2nd-chances w/ varying degrees-of-success depending on the dancer (i.e. how long she sticks w/ dancing; how her personal life/situation is; etc).
  • Specialj
    •
    a year ago
    To avoid or at least lower my chances of being cheated I always ask for the prices up front, even with dancers I regularly see. It’s become routine with me, and usually, I would say 80% of the time is effective. The ones that are expecting more than standard dance prices and or expect tips more often that not tell me when I ask up front. Also when getting dances it’s good practice to make sure you and the dancer are on the same page with regards to number of dances. Often a sign a dancer is going to try to hustle me is when they start with some light teasing mid song without explicitly stating they will start the next song. This is often a ruse to get you to pay full price for her not doing anything and for me personally tends to be Very annoying.
  • BGSD3100
    •
    a year ago
    Why would you want to keep getting ripped off?
  • wallanon
    •
    a year ago
    "Why would you want to keep getting ripped off?" The idea would be for the ROB not to rip you off after they get favorited. It bears repeating that this is in the advanced strip clubbing course and noobs should proceed with extreme caution.
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