Lines that shouldn't be crossed

Great post, but I don't think dedicated ITC-only people need as many. It's a much more controlled situation.

No forcing or sneaking something on a girl who isn't into it. It's sad that this needs to be said.

Nothing with a girl who's too fucked up.

Nothing with a girl who might be there against her will. That means avoiding certain clubs (and AMPs) and girls who don't speak English.

I'll name and shame any ROB, defined as a girl who promises something (whether dances or extras), and doesn't deliver at an agreed-upon sum.

A girl who doesn't promise something and doesn't deliver it, or given an air dance when you didn't know you'd get one, is not an ROB. You were just an idiot.

For me, the vast majority of my lines form around getting consent and everyone in the room being on the same page.

I won't connect dancers by name to extras. I know that bothers some guys here. They can eat shit.

Naming ROBs... case-by-case basis. If there's blatant deceit, then I'll likely spread the word. I assume that the dancers talk to each other about customers to avoid. What's good for the goose, etc., etc.

Sometimes there will only be one girl at the strip club I want to do lap dances with. If, for some reason or another, she decides she is not interested in that I will never get angry at her. I just leave and head on home. There will always be another night, another strip club, and another girl.

I will go out with a girl that is 26 that looks 17. I did last night. I will not go out with a 17 year old pretending to be 26.

All of y’all have melted my heart 🤗

No one gets any specifics from me regarding anything I do with a dancer, ever. No one's business. I leave it general as "fun" worthwhile" "great experience" and let others feel the joy of discovery.

With regards to the statement about lines that shouldn’t be crossed, the biblical golden rule is applicable here,

“do unto others as you would have them do unto you “

More like crossing blurred lines. We know there is something quite fuzzy about each “line” that someone crosses can be quite subjective, how drunk is too drunk, how “desperate” is she or is she just having fun (good actress), bait and switch a girl to come by your table because you’re showing a stack of bills. That can also be a blurry line from the dancers view.

My line is I won’t go home or even meet outside of the club with dancers. At least not during this phase in my life. Maybe someday when I have time to piss away.

I don't suppose it will surprise anyone that plying someone with alcohol to facilitate my chances is a line that I won't cross. I'm sure I've been the recipient of favors from someone whose condition I couldn't detect, but if I have any doubt about her sobriety, I'm not gonna be interested.

I too will not out extras dancers in a review, at least not without the explicit consent of the dancer in question, a practice which has earned me a few angry DMs on USASG from entitled shitheads. Escorts who explicitly advertise their services don't have any reasonable expectation that people won't discuss those services and how well she performs them. Dancers and massage providers, on the other hand, do NOT advertise, and I won't out them.

ROBs and scammers of any type are fair game though.

And No means No. If she says no, I'll let her know an offer is still open if she changes her mind, but that's about the end of it.

Everything y’all have said about lines to not cross make sense. I don’t think about a list of specific rules for myself. Just a couple of guideposts to fall back on whenever making a decision. The girls in clubs are people doing a job and don’t be a dick.

My rule with women in general is to always let anything be their choice. If she wants you she'll always let you know.

As far as clubs go. I won't pay for sex. Won't have anything to do with girls on blues or glass. Clubs aren't that sexual to me. I'm happy with an air dance. I like watching the girls. I don't touch them first but they're usually all over me and guide my hands eventually. I donno. I just think whatever physical is always better when she initiates it and you just go with her signals.

Rick, good stuff. But good ones mostly 90% won’t do OTC, only the fucked up messed up ones do OTC.. onl one observation

Champ the ones who dont do otc are more likely to be scammers and robs. Many dancers are doing the job for money and theres always additional potential money involved from extras, or from robbing. Some even compete and brag on how much they can rob off one customer or in general.

Internet info isn’t reliable in general, so any dancer or customer shit talking the other could be out of spite. But in general, any scammer/robber should be named and exposed. If someone’s intentionally spreading an std, or offering bareback while having an std, it should also be exposed whether it’s a customer or dancer.

The alcohol also goes both ways. Not doing anything with someone drunk, and customers shouldn’t be taken advantage of or robbed if drunk either.

I wouldnt bring someone to my house.

I wouldnt do anything with someone who was a rob even if they werent a rob with me.

I wouldnt name someone who didnt do anything wrong.

Champ and BTE, with all due respect to each of you, sometimes it's best not to opine on something you don't know much about. 😉

@Champ: OTC activities are far more common than you seem to realize and hardly limited to the "messed up ones." Why you continue to ignorantly promote that narrative on here I'll never understand, but it is what it is.

@BTE: A girl who chooses to see a customer OTC is as capable as any dancer of running a scam on another customer. Some of my best OTC partners over the years were not above fleecing morons ITC using a variety of hustles, including romance hustles and vague promises of extras that never materialize. It's all about opportunities and circumstances. It's the Law of the Jungle: Stronger animals eat and weaker animals get eaten.

And whoever minces their words the best wins!

Rick, sorry. My experience with OTC is nothing. Once a class dancer almost10 she was a student at a famous Philly university told me that good dancers don’t do OTC at all, only the messed up ones look for extra cash to fund their mess up. So, I generalized it for all. May be my misunderstanding.

Another line I won't cross is stating broad generalizations as facts with regard to dancers based on whether or not they offer extras, OTC, or whatever. The number of variables is too great.

Not being a hooker doesn't make her a rob or scammer

@ChampPhilly: "Rick, good stuff. But good ones mostly 90% won’t do OTC, only the fucked up messed up ones do OTC.. onl one observation"

Given the number of "good ones", really, really good ones, I've had the great fortune to entertain OTC, your statement rings somewhat false to me. To be fair, there have been duds (and to be even more fair, probably far more duds than good, at least the first few years) as well, but I think I've been lucky. Even aside from my ATF, the MILF, and my current fav, I don't think I could count the "good ones" who've shared their charms with me over the years.

But Rick if they are desperate for money, and also not doing otc, IMO there is more likelihood of them scamming. For an escort or ITC stripper to be a scammer vs not be a scammer, they can usually legally get away with scamming jn these scenarios so it comes down to their personal morals/karma, whether they care about their reputation, and then just concerns over legality of falsely offering otc/extras and concerns over whether club management cares if they’re offering extras or robbing.

OTC opens up an additional valve of money to the dancer. Scamming also opens up an additional valve of money. Most of the scams as they relate to escorts or clubs center around extras being offered but not delivered. A dancer who does OTC or extras with clients already, is less likely to scam those things.

Icee nobody said that. What about someone who pretends to be a hooker but takes your money and doesnt provide services? They’re just finessers or hustlers still not scammers?

So you believe that businesses and corporations should be legally held accountable for any and all advertisements and customer satisfaction.

Your points about dancers who aren't hookers are ridiculous. Youbfeel scammed if she sells you a fantasy and doesn't fuck you. Thats her jobm Buyers remorse is your problem.

Cacaplop do you believe a woman should be forced to go through fucking you? Do you have disdain for women who say no after any initial sexual contact? Do you believe in publicly shaming women who won't sleep with you?what have you done to dancers who wouldn't fuck you?

Lol Icee ive bought many dances with no extras, and even bought more even with no extras. Anyone can refuse any offer of sex or vice versa. Are you incapable of understanding what a rob is?

It isnt “selling a fantasy” if a dancer says shell suck you off if you buy vip with her. That’s called scamming and fraud.

Ive done literally nothing to dancers who said they dont do otc.

Youve gone as far as saying dancers are superior citizens, everyone else is inferior and that dancers have the right to rob clients.

Icee when someone posts on here about being scammed by a dancer or ROB, why do you think its impossible for it to be true? Dancers are as human as anyone else, it may be hard for you to understand since you pedestalize them and spent hundreds of thousands on a single dancer. But dancers being human means they can in fact engage in fraud or theft just like anyone else.

Saying no to otc or being a hooker doesn’t mean they’re a ROB. A rob is someone who pretends to be a hooker and doesnt deliver once you pay.

Do you believe every business should be legally responsible for your satisfaction? Are you outraged by deceptive corporate practices? Or simply sore that a dancer doesn't deliver on being a prostitute? What do you do to said dancers?

You cant fraud someone on services, like offering a massage for $100 and not delivering. It only happens with escorts or strippers because most people wont go to the cops over sex services not being delivered. Just like people wont go to the cops if their illegal drugs were robbed.

Strippers who don't fuck you are committing fraud and no one else does. You talk like a fucking kid. And like you have zero real world experience with anything.

What do you do to dancers who won't fuck you?

Are you outraged by deceptive corporate marketing?

Christ, it's like watching a ping-pong match in here. A really fucking stupid ping-pong match.

In my view, if a seller offers to provide a service, accepts payment for that service, then fails or refuses to follow through, it's fraud. It happens in all industries, legal, illegal, and quasi-. I've never had a stripper make a blatant "I'll suck you off for $n" offer, just hints, which I decline because there's no way practical way to enforce the implied contract that doesn't end with getting my arse beat. Fortunately that shit doesn't fly at my bar, with girls who try to play ROB being counselled once and dismissed on a second complaint.

As for my lines, and not trying to virtue-signal here: pretty much what Rick posted, with the exception of OTC which I don't do under any circumstances (although if my ATF suggested it, I'd definitely reconsider).

Lol Icee, you keep committing fraud in your argument also.

A stripper who honestly refuses to do otc is not a scammer. Shes exercising her right to fuck or not fuck someone, which everyone has the right to do.

Icee, if anyone offers anyone a service, and doesnt follow through, but takes money, its fraud. If you offer to mow a lawn for $100, take the money upfront and dont do it, its fraud. Its the same thing that also applies if you offer sexual services or any services for money. Its not “selling a fantasy” “finessing” “hustling” if a stripper engages in fraud or theft. If a dancer is only willing to do lapdances with no extras, its her duty to be open and honest about what her services are, and let people decide if that’s what they want.

Im sorry nobody taught you about this. Not all of us were raised with morals unfortunately

Icee, most big companies aren’t engaging in fraud. Its going to be smaller no name shops, usually, that engage in deception. You need to provide a specific example of the deceptive corporate marketing you’re talking about. If a company was offering extras for buying their products, and not following through, that would be fraud too.

This fraudulent behavior happens more in illegal industries. Illegal drugs, or escorts or strippers. Because if you get frauded in those industries, you cant go to the cops, or if you do, you’ll have to get punished yourself in order to get the other person in trouble.

Conan, a lot of dancers and escorts will follow through because of the repeat business potential with following through and providing good service. With dancers you can often pay at the end of otc, instead of paying up front. And with an escort if her hourly rate is $500, you can for example pay $100 up front for 10 minutes, and then pay $100 every 10 minutes. That way you don’t pay the entire amount upfront and can leave if it’s a scam.

What do you do to dancers who wont fuck you? Go troll elsewhere.

You're just as outbof touch with reality as sjg

“A girl who chooses to see a customer OTC is as capable as any dancer of running a scam on another customer. Some of my best OTC partners over the years were not above fleecing morons ITC using a variety of hustles, including romance hustles and vague promises of extras that never materialize. It's all about opportunities and circumstances. It's the Law of the Jungle: Stronger animals eat and weaker animals get eaten.”

How did they go about scamming those other customers and what does that have to do with stronger or weaker animals? Do you mean mental strength and weakness? And why did you keep seeing them knowing they’re thieves? Net-net by the sound of things they would have tried scamming you also but you didn’t fall for the romance hustles as easily?

Cacaplop what do you do to dancers who won't fuck you? What do you do to so-called "robs"?

On the topic of the guy who inspired this thread, ThatXGuy85 had his entire profile deleted, along with any associated reviews, discussions, and comments.

I wondered how long it would be before that happened. Good riddance.

I literally just came here to comment that, too. So rapists can just admit to being pieces of shit to sex workers without repercussion here. Got it.

I doubt the dipshit learned any lessons from what happened and I assume he'll be back with a new username to continue to write about his adventures in raping sex workers and endangering their sexual health.

I still haven't checked to see if I received any responses back yet. I was busy all day Sunday. And I do not and will never regret contacting his wife or the dancer he raped about what he did. And anyone who thinks I crossed a line is a rapist sympathizer.

He also deleted all the pins from his Pinterest. lol.

His name still pops up with his Pinterest profile when I Google his username. And I can still view some of his activity on this site via Google cache. The rest of his social media accounts and LinkedIn in are all still intact.

This was either him shitting himself begging Founder to scrub him from the site like a little pussy bitch... Or Founder removed it all for obvious reasons.

No idea. I know that founder is very much against removing or modifying individuals threads or comments. But, to have your entire profile removed, all you need to do is ask and he'll do it ASAP.

I suspect that's what happened, because the other guy who claimed to be HIV positive while stealthing and raping dancers still has a profile here (though inactive for a while). His posts caused far more turmoil and user outrage than ThatXGuy85 and it was not removed by founder.

The fact that founder would not remove HIV rapist guy's profile is the reason why PaulDrake revived r/stripclubs on Reddit, which is where he and subraman are primarily active these days.

I agree. I’m surprised Founder removed the discussion and profile of that guy. I think that guy realized he was fucked, and decided to try and clean up his online presence. He has posts going back years on AMP sites, so he’s got a lot to clean up.

It is sad that he’s actually a newlywed, and I’m sure his new wife would be horrified to learn about his secret life.

Now we’ve got Icee and BTE involved in a battle for the coveted title of the dumbest TUSCL troll…

Cashman said "Now we’ve got Icee and BTE involved in a battle for the coveted title of the dumbest TUSCL troll…"

It's the Alien vs. Predator sequel that no one asked for or deserves.

===> "So rapists can just admit to being pieces of shit to sex workers without repercussion here. Got it."

When a forum is managed with free speech principles, one will sometimes read things that one does not like. Every once in a while, one might even encounter something truly outrageous. Free speech doesn't come without a cost.

But on the flip side, it cuts both ways. ThatXGuy would have been much better off never posting anywhere and the POS HIV guy hasn't posted in a very long time, though I suspect that it was just a troll account to begin with.

^ There's a difference between free speech, and hate speech, one is protected, the other will net you a punch in the head or worse. On an unmoderated anonymous forum of this nature, there is a natural tendency for idiots to say whatever they want, and claim it is free speech, if you are saying something anonymously it has little value as free speech.

Even under free speech principles, you're not allowed to yell "Fire!" in a crowded room.

I feel like the same principles apply to, say, claiming to rape women in VIP while being HIV positive, particularly on a site oriented to sex work and purporting to be welcoming to sex workers. Others might disagree, but that has been my opinion all along.

I'll add that I believe the same should apply to users who regularly connect dancers by name to extras or spread STD rumors here. Again, my 2 cents.

I'll gently add that ThatXguy85 is gone primarily, if not entirely, through the efforts of a dancer.

CMI, thatxguy claimed he himself was clean. Its a very different scenario than the hiv positive guy who seems like he was trolling also.

What punishment do you get for yelling fire in a crowded room?

Is it true that his wife was hot, and the dancer was very beautiful? Icee said his wife wasn’t his type, but was so hot that he still added her and dmed her.

@CMI That was my entire point @BTE Punishment for inciting a riot varies, if someone gets hurt it can be severe.

Freedom of speech is illusory. It only applies to public spaces. Not even to private public ones.

Deleting thatxguy85 just helps him by making him not have to be accountable for his admissions of rape and stalking. Fortunately his admissions are still available on other sites.

Cacaplop go troll someone else

Cacaplop what do you do to dancers you call robs?

Icee normally i would report to management and, if i was posting a review, name them in the review. Thankfully, so far IME its only 2 out of 10 dancers who were ROBs. Note a rob isnt refusing extras... its offering xyz if you buy a dance then not delivering. Or, literally not performing a dance and just doing an airdance, demandig tip money, after you paid up front for a Lapdance.

Btw Icee, a condom breaking during sex doesn’t automatically = rape. It depends on who wanted the condom, why it was worn, why it was broken, if the people involved had diseases. Usually condom breaking is done intentionally to spread a disease or force pregnancy. But it is inconsistent for you to say condom breaking = rape when a PL does it, but say its fine for a dancer to break a condom to try to get pregnant and get child support. Then its not rape according to you then its just a finesse or hustle.

Icee, there are no rules when it comes to private spaces, as far as private property is concerned you can literally be racist or sexist or do anything you want. You can open up a store and demand a $100 deposit or do anything as long as its disclosed up front. But once again you don’t believe this either, you don’t understand the reasons why freedom of speech isn’t guaranteed in private spaces.

I think we need a “special” forum for users like Icee and BTE - called Special - so their posts go where they should go.

Hey, BTE, you dumb fuck retard - stop asking questions about his wife and that dancer. They're not on this site and they don't put themselves "out there". What he did is wrong. And his wife was easy to find because of him making himself easy to find. But let's stop asking questions about her to protect her privacy. Nobody's going to link you to photos or anything, so shit the fuck up, BTE and then please go off yourself.

^ shouldn’t it be called stupid forum , I mean to keep the truth in labeling people from coming after founder LULZ

^^ They're both bullshitters who know that they are both bullshitters. But in the absence of SJG, there's no one left on this site who treats their posts as genuine.

So, it's the old "Spy versus Spy" comic, but with trolls.

^ Ninja'd by BubbleYum.

BubbleYum you should be in prison, it isnt normal to be this enraged at random people online. You’re lucky you’re anonymous here, otherwise you’d have been fired from your club already, assuming you are a legit dancer and not a troll.

Bubbleyum im sorry your parents failed you. Im sorry my morals are so much better than yours. Its unfortunate not all of us had the same upbringing and values.

I already saw thatxguy and his wife, thanks to bubbleyum and icee constantly posting bragging about dming them on Facebook or their pinterests etc. And thatxguy himself already named the club and the dancer

Calling it a stupid forum would be insulting to stupid folks.

These two take it to a level I’ve not encountered before. I thought calling it special would make them feel unique!

^ LOL True dat bro

Bte you tell management a dancer promised to duck you but didn't? You can't even troll well. You sound like a kid or someone with zero life experience.

Cim you're only posting to be a passive aggressive troll again. Trolling by posting only to call others trolls.

Cashman. Go back to talking how you pay for dirty ass and dirty pussy

I would, cuz management doesnt want robs usually, bad for business. But i dont want to fuck ITC so that kind of scam doesn’t work.

What has happened is a dancer pulled a tip scam. I paid upfront, went to dance and she refused to dance unless i paid extra money. I got tje dance refunded. It probably depends on the club. But robs are bad for the club reputation. Of course, to lifelong looters and thieves, robs are perfect and the right way to behave.

Icee my homie! I never stopped posting about paying for filthy enjoyment!

Now get on your knees and sniff deez nutz! I know you love the aroma of my sweaty bag!

Keep lying.

Its common sense really. If a club advertises full contact lap dances anf takes money up front, theres a good chance you can be refunded Its rare you’ll get scammed in the first place though, it’s usually newer unaware dancers or foreign dancers who pull the tip scam. A lapdance has some level of touching involved, its not like youre just paying for time like an escort, and an air dance doesnt count either. I know you dont want scammer dancers getting in trouble icee but unfortunately even club managers dont like the tip scam

Icee! You never learn! That was humor!

img.huffingtonpost.com

How do you draw the pine between "keeping the alcohol flowing " and "disoriented or otherwise messed up"?

Do you breathalyzer them to make sure they've sobered up?

are you a medical expert and can tell which girls are making sober decisions?

Do you know what other substances the dancers are on that maybe just had a couple drinks?

Basically, you're happy to use alcohol to lubricate the decision making of your target up to the point you arbitrarily decide is too drunk for you to feel comfortable taking advantage of her.

===> "Basically, you're happy to use alcohol to lubricate the decision making of your target up to the point you arbitrarily decide is too drunk for you to feel comfortable taking advantage of her."

You mean do I treat her like a grown woman able to decide her own limits and make her own choices, until the point where she provides clear evidence to the contrary? You bet I do, as should we all, and there is nothing arbitrary about it.

Btw who exactly do you believe made you the Designated Nanny, better able to make decisions for others than they are themselves? Boy you must be fun at parties. I guess you're what happens when a man is born with only one testicle.

Unlike you, I neither view the world through the lens of a sissy nor arrogantly assume that I know what's best for the woman who is sharing her time with me. I also don't need a medical professional on hand to make reasonable determinations based upon direct observations. There may be some life lessons in there for you son.

Not a nanny. I do have a medical degree though.

Piously stating that you have lines you will and won't cross , then no better definition of the lines than Justice Stewart gave us...... I guess we should all realize that Rick will know the lines when he sees them. And he'll criticize your definition of the lines from his armchair quarterback position on Monday morning.

Shit 3131, you don't post much, but I thought there was something familiar about your screen name and the whiny tone of your post, so I looked at your most recent discussions. That's when the dots connected and I realized that this isn't even the first time I called you a sissy in the last few weeks. The other recent labeling occurred when you were whining about a girl who - gasp - had the audacity to stick firm to her own price for access to her pussy.

You need to learn to sack up son. That probably starts with addressing whatever insecurities you carry which fuel your misogyny and feelings of angry self entitlement. Heck you don't even trust your own judgment in determining whether your potential partner has had one too many. These are things you'll need to work on son if you ever wish to have a full life which involves women.

Net-net, i dont think ive ever seen you call someone son before, Rick!

Line I will not cross: I will not spank, bite, choke or do anything else that may cause physical pain even if they ask me to do it.

===> "I will not spank, bite, choke or do anything else that may cause physical pain even if they ask me to do it."

Your lines clearly stop before mine, lol. I won't bite - at least too hard - but I'll happily spank and choke. Some of these fucked up girls need a little pain to get off and a for a smaller % that includes oxygen deprivation. It all feeds into their daddy control issues. When I'm fucking them there's no doubt about who's in charge.

Now you can certainly take the position that she needs to worry about your needs and not the other way around. I completely get that. But if you want her eager to come back, it doesn't hurt to reciprocate.

@Lone_Wolf: "I will not spank, bite, choke or do anything else that may cause physical pain even if they ask me to do it."

You're missing out. Rough sex can be hot sex with the right person.

It's true that lately it seems to be "trendy" in that some girls think they want that sort of thing, but don't understand that prior discussions about limits and safe words are absolutely required. I generally won't even spank those girls unless they do understand.