Give Ukraine their no-fly zone!

Sunday, March 6, 2022 8:04 PM
This is fucking bullshit. The Biden administration, along with many Republicans, are trying to tiptoe through a minefield, just to reach a cliff on the other side. The only thing everyone seems to agree on is that Putin intends to recreate the USSR, or possibly the Russian Empire. Shit, even if he plans to stop at Ukraine, he certainly doesn't want Moscow and St. Petersburg to become the next Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think that would kind of throw a monkey wrench into his expansion plans. He's got a couple of big advantages over NATO members. First of all, he's ruthless as fuck. He thinks nothing of throwing his own citizens into a long period of economic suffering and hunger. In his mind, they've been there before and survived. He doesn't care about his own soldiers dying for a cause they don't even understand. And apparently he doesn't mind occupying a pile of rubble that was once a thriving country. (I'm sure he has his reasons.) Has he gone totally insane? Unless he took a crazy pill just a few months ago, I think not. Every US President since Clinton has considered him a shrewd tactician. Biden recently called him a "worthy adversary." Regardless of how much we despise his objectives and methods, there's no denying he's always been a savvy and intelligent motherfucker. Never forget that Putin is a master of deception. If we think he's gone nuts, it's because that's exactly what he wants us to think. (Nice touch, hitting that nuclear plant, but only the admin building. Wow he MUST be crazy, right?) He knows full well that in a conventional fight with NATO, he'd be wiped out immediately. Half an hour of full-on attack by our F-35s and those untrained and undersupplied young conscripts would throw down their weapons and run away with just their dicks in their hands. So Putin is doing what he does best - manipulating everyone else's behavior with a giant mind-fuck. The crazier and more unpredictable we think he is, the less likely we are to intervene in any meaningful way, and he's playing us like a fiddle... (or a balalaika). If we don't put an immediate end to this Ukraine invasion, Putin's endeavors will seem like nothing when China follows his example and moves on Taiwan. But crush this whole thing now, in a quick and decisive manner, and watch how fast President Xi will distance himself from Putin and start behaving like a good little boy. Putin ain't gonna push that button. And if he did, our missile defense systems are 10 times what his are. That is, if he even has any. The only way to avoid the dreaded "World War III" is for the US and its allies to maintain absolute superiority both militarily and economically. Right now we're failing at both because we have a bunch of pussies in charge. Set up the no-fly zone, and simultaneously annihilate that 40-mile convoy of tanks. His entire military will surrender and the citizens of Russia will revolt in a way he won't fucking believe or be able to control. He will have lost everything, and nobody there will have the balls (or the stupidity) to launch a nuclear strike on his order. And I'll go one step further. It's been well reported that many of these "oligarchs" and other top Russian officials have their children attending some of the most prestigious universities in the US and UK. Well, I say grab them and throw them all in prison. They only get out if and when this whole Russian invasion thing is resolved to our liking. Putin wants to act crazy? We give him crazy right back.

141 comments

I want to know what his end game is. He has used up much of his munition. Keeping an army in the field is horribly expensive. There are various reports that he can maintain his forces another week, or so, from a financial standpoint. Their stock market is worthless and he can’t get hard currency. And, he simply doesn’t have enough troops to control a hostile Ukrainian population even if he manages to take it. If he simply abandons Ukraine, the Russian people would literally revolt. So, how does he end this ?
mark94
2 years ago
^ This is the proverbial question what does the dog do with the car once he catches it.
twentyfive
2 years ago
No. I’m against the Russian invasion and we should support Ukraine every way we can, but it’s not in our (American) interests to get in an actual war. Don’t be stupid. Our troops aren’t the World Police.
Studme53
2 years ago
No fly zone = ww3 Start promoting peace not fanning war
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
^ Putin could promote peace by fucking his army right back to Mother Russia. It's the simplest and most direct route to peace.
Tetradon
2 years ago
No Ukraine should have honored the Minsk Agreement. The US shouldn't have put a puppet regime in power. Zelensky could have stepped down instead of arming neonazis
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
No I gotta disagree MO I’d say stay out of it. Sanctions, don’t buy his oil. I’m hoping Russia fixes itself from within, it’s gonna get miserable for them if the whole world works against Putin. I don’t think this something we want to sacrifice our troops lives for. I could never ask a group to not fight for the freedom if that’s what they want to do God bless them but honestly at this point I hope they just raise the white flag to end this, and avoid any more bloodshed.
Muddy
2 years ago
^ "Sanctions, don’t buy his oil." If we were willing to make this sacrifice, Putin wouldn't have enough rubles to pay for this little misadventure.
Tetradon
2 years ago
Ukraine should fix itself from within too. Zelensky should step down. They should stop bombing their own people in the east. Address their neo nazi problem.
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
If the US was sanctioned maybe it would stop bombing yemen
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
Giving Ukraine a no-fly zone would require that NATO forces (almost certainly including the US) enforce it. That means US forces shooting down Russian bombers and other air platforms. It also means Russians potentially shooting down US air platforms. That's not going to happen unless something really horrible happens (which isn't impossible). What the U.S. (and other NATO nations) will do (likely via the CIA) is equip and train an insurgency while giving them a safe havens in Poland and possibly Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Moldova is nominally neutral, but more Western/NATO leaning (especially given Russian fuckery in Transnistria). The goal here will not be just re-establishing Ukrainian independence, but also creating a sinkhole for Russian resources and money, as well creating a center for stoking anti-Putin sentiment in Russia. The CIA has been training Ukrainian elite forces and intelligence services since the Crimean annexation, so the infrastructure is already there. The obvious downside is that an active insurgency takes a while to spin up, and usually takes years to be effective. So, this is going to go on for a while. That's possibly the best-case scenario, because a rapid end to the conflict would likely involve a mushroom cloud or three.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
^ As usual, @CMI with the most rational and learned response of the thread. Damn you.
Tetradon
2 years ago
It's fucking bizarre people don't understand a no fly zone means a nuclear ww3 without question.
Lone_Wolf
2 years ago
^ Russian propaganda, exactly what Putin wants the West to think.
wld4tatas
2 years ago
Excellent write-up misterorange. My sentiments almost exactly. One thing to note is that not directly intervening to date has been a tremendous, almost unimaginable geo-political success in terms of major policy shifts and isolating Russia. Keep those images flowing of death and destruction, they are doing wonders, though unfortunately at great expense to Ukrainians. Another week or two of this and then that might be the time to fly in and bomb that 40-mile convoy to dust.
wld4tatas
2 years ago
Cacaplop... Eh. Listen man, I get it. You're a serial troll who for several years has been singularly focused on causing turmoil on strip club forums because ... reasons. Honestly, the reasons why are probably as sad as you are. So, who cares. Anywho... There's many differences between the combat theaters of Syria and Ukraine, and that includes everything ranging from terrain to culture. So, comparing the two is pretty much apples and oranges. I think anyone placing bets in any direction right now is unwise. What we do know is that Russia's planned rapid and overwhelming defeat of Ukrainian forces didn't work out how they wanted. I mean, they will eventually take all of Ukraine or a majority of it (possibly leaving an autonomous region of insurgency around Lviv). But there will also be a well-supplied and dedicated insurgency that will be bolstered by the fact that the several countries on Ukraine's western edge are in NATO would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be a Russian vassal state. So, taking Ukraine will likely be comparatively much easier (and cheaper) than keeping it. Russia's economy is smaller than Texas' (even before sanctions) and this won't be cheap for them. A prolonged, costly, and unpopular war in a country that has long borders with NATO countries *could* wind up being a huge opportunity for NATO and Western intelligence agencies, and a crippling blunder for Putin. Except that it's also going to result in massive loss of life and a negative impact on numerous small and large economies around the world. If Putin had taken Luhansk and Donetsk and left the rest of Ukraine alone, then he would have his security buffer (along with a warm-water port in Crimea) and the rest of the world would have quietly re-drawn the maps of Europe in a year or five. But anything vaguely resembling direct action against Russia will not happen unless there's a radical change of some sort. Anyway, I'm sure you've got some trollish response with all your odd written tics and phrases prepped and ready to go. So, go for it. It's your weird slow-jam apparently.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
I wonder what would have happened if Russia would have justifiably created a no fly zone over Iraq when we invaded over false WMD's. We probably would have just left Iraq like the Ruskies will leave Ukraine.
Lone_Wolf
2 years ago
Because it launches warheads of caca?
CandymanOfProvidence
2 years ago
How long can a country with a thirty trillion-dollar national debt keep spending several hundred billion dollars a year on a huge military in order to play policeman of the world? I would point out the Boomers are all retiring now and that will cause a drop in future tax receipts while the costs of Social Security and Medicare will explode. I would also point out we have a flood of poorly educated younger immigrants who, along with their families, end up receiving more in welfare benefits than they pay in taxes. I would also point out we have been paying for our deficit spending by printing up the money but that is now leading to out-of-control inflation that is causing people to struggle to make ends meet so we can't keep doing it. The question here is not whether we are going to end our interventionist foreign policy. It's going to end soon because we won't have the money to pay for it. The only question is how soon that will be.
docsavage
2 years ago
I think after Russia's military showing these past 11 days, we can afford to scale back a bit on the world policing. Russia is having a hard time going toe to toe with Ukraine, let alone a serious NATO member. We should step back and just arm the chaos. Sort of like when a musician gets old and writes songs for other younger musicians
SanchoRG
2 years ago
^ I mean, I know that everything you post is designed purely to pick a fight, but even so your fixation on a single weapon system is odd.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Lol does anyone believe that shit Dixie is spouting? The Russians are strapping logs to their vehicles as armor FFS! That's some Fred Flintstone shit.
SanchoRG
2 years ago
heaving "If they were going to do that, they could've said so as soon as "Russian invasion imminent" news broke out and they could've prevented it before it even began. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20." Totally agree. The opportunity to declare a no fly zone was before the invasion. IMO, hindsight is no excuse because these are professional politicians and professional warriors (pentagon) whose job it is to play out and make adequate plans for all types of possible situations. They even had a full day to respond between Putin moving into the separatist regions and the start of the invasion into the rest of the Ukraine.
yahtzee74
2 years ago
I was just thinking I could literally be dodging bombs right now if I wasn't so lucky hah 🤣
blahblahblah23
2 years ago
“In terms of leadership we're in no position to question Germany (Poland, Russia, France, or any country) when our own house is not in order.” ~ misterorange✪✔ 02-25-2022 ~ “I get my news from TUSCL” ~ Joined Sep, 2015
CJKent_band
2 years ago
^^ CJ Kunt do you always add your own words when quoting others in order to change the context and meaning to your own warped view? You think no one will bother to look it up? Apparently you do, or you just don't know how to copy and paste.
misterorange
2 years ago
At least if you're gonna change the quote, you shouldn't give the date it was said, you know so people can't review it so easily. You stupid fucking idiot.
misterorange
2 years ago
Rasmussen Poll "If a wider war breaks out in Europe, should the U.S. military be involved?" All Voters - Yes - 49% Yes by Income Under $30K: 37% $30-50K: 48% $50-100K: 51% $100-200K: 52% Over $200K: 66%
mark94
2 years ago
“The idea that the United States is uniquely virtuous may be comforting to Americans.” “Too bad it's not true.” “Americans blind themselves to the ways that they are just like everyone else.” “It is also called Superiority Complex; a burning desire to minimize or undermine other human beings to make themelves feel better…” “Americans don’t always have self-awareness (denial) to know they are coming across to people around the world as a hypocritical, greedy bullying, opportunistic, imperialist power…” “Yes, America's economy is a war economy. Not a "manufacturing" economy. Not an "agricultural" economy. Nor a "service" economy. Not even a "consumer" economy.” 'America's Outrageous War Economy!' Published: Aug. 18, 2008 [view link]
CJKent_band
2 years ago
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ T H E U N D E N I A B L E T R U T H “The US population is generally ignorant, mis-educated, and deliberately lied-to, about international affairs even more than domestic politics. They think of themselves as “America” and say, “we” and “us” when speaking about the national state of which they really know little and have less control.” “It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few...” ~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg ~ Born: 3rd January 2003 , Sweden ~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
CJKent_band
2 years ago
In no particular order: should the US become involved in a European War, if the Ukraine Invasion spreads to more countries? Only in accordance with NATO treaty obligations. Some posters think Putin is bluffing about direct attacks on countries who impose a No-Fly Zone or otherwise help defend Ukraine. Maybe he is, but do you think a madman with nuclear weapons would be unafraid to use them if he's going to lose them? docsavage thinks that direct military assistance in Ukraine would be too expensive, especially when examined in light of our current deficit spending, budgetary crises, and entitlement obligations. I actually agree. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is heinous and criminal, but how does engaging in direct conflict against Russia benefit the USA? In short, it doesn't. Russia cannot hold Ukraine. Just as Russia put Spetsnatz covertly into Crimea and Donetsk, so the US and other western countries can, have, and will add our own covert force multipliers to guerrilla and resistance fighters in Ukraine. That is how the Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan, that is how the US lost in Vietnam. The US loss in Afghanistan is because we have a weak and feckless leader whose administration lacks any sort of accountability, and a military and intelligence community which is more focused on internal social justice issues than they are warfighting and national defense. Russia does not have that problem, but they have others.
gammanu95
2 years ago
On November 10, 2021, Biden informed Ukraine that they had a clear path to NATO membership. Putin had consistently said he would not allow a country bordering Russia to join NATO. Shortly after Biden’s notice, Putin began building up troops on the border. We see the end result.
mark94
2 years ago
^ The Russians are the enemy of all real American people.
skibum609
2 years ago
Dixie/cacaplop is the only TUSCL user who loves a Russian air defense system more than titties.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
War in Ukraine: A massacre of people who don’t know each other for the profit of people who know each other, but don’t massacre each other… “It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few...” ~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg ~ Born: 3rd January 2003 , Sweden ~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
CJKent_band
2 years ago
Get me a lighter and nonflammable chaps and I'll show you a flamethrower more powerful than a TOS-1
CandymanOfProvidence
2 years ago
"It's fucking bizarre people don't understand a no fly zone means a nuclear ww3 without question." I tend to agree with this being a possibility. The window to try a no fly zone has closed. It was only open before the actual invasion started, Putin has committed his forces and I don't see him backing down now unless there's a way he can save face. Trying to force him to stop by shooting down his jets isn't saving face, it would probably just incite him to up the ante regardless of the consequences. We don't need another shooting war even if we would likely win. How is coming out on top after almost total death and destruction in a nuclear exchange winning? The only benefactor of USA and Russia going at it is China, they're probably hoping that it happens.
TheeOSU
2 years ago
"The only benefactor of USA and Russia going at it is China, they're probably hoping that it happens." Xi would invade Taiwan two seconds after the first exchange of fire between Russian and American forces.
gammanu95
2 years ago
As long as I live in luxury and stupid cunts like Greta suffer, I am happy.
skibum609
2 years ago
Having NATO implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, a non-NATO country, even before the invasion would have still been seen as a direct action against the Russians. So, I don't view that window as having ever been open. Not really. We can get away with providing safe havens, training, intelligence, supplies, and weapons from the other side of the border essentially because Russia has as much (if not more) experience at fighting proxy wars as we do. They can be unhappy about it, but those protests would be pretty empty.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
How about a un no fly zone over Yemen to prevent American bombing and trying biden for war crimes?
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
Icey... The U.S. started supplying logistical, intelligence, and material support to Saudi Arabia in 2015 under President Obama. That support continued and expanded under President Trump to include U.S.-made weapons and other offensive / defensive equipment, as well as the training and support assistance of special forces personnel through then end of Trump's term in 2020. The U.S. has never bombed Yemen directly, but it has certainly provided a lot of equipment and weaponry allowing Saudi Arabia to create a massive humanitarian crisis in that country. I've always been critical of the U.S. providing as much aid and weaponry to Saudi Arabia as we do. The only cynical defense of it is that we'd rather they buy from us than China, but that doesn't hold a lot of water with me. I'll be interested to read about your petition (specifically naming Biden as a war criminal) to the UN over this matter, but it's probably going to be an uphill battle, as Biden announced an end to the U.S. support for Saudi-led operations in Yemen on Feb. 4, 2021 (within his first month as President). Also, you're only bringing up Yemen because you're solely interested in creating drama and turmoil, and aren't knowledgeable enough to engage on the topic of this thread, Ukraine. You're Dixie/cacaplop, but reading from different cue cards. Have a day.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Dixie/cacaplop... Congratulation on expanding your weird manic crush on Russian defensive equipment from one system to two. I'm sure the three of you will be very happy together.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
“Russia anti missile system S-400 is so good that even Amerikkka's allies Turkey and India purchased it “ As I recall, the US blocked selling a superior version of their anti-missile to Turkey ( and, maybe, India ) because they ( correctly ) believed those countries would allow Russia to analyze the system in detail.
mark94
2 years ago
^ That is correct.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Correct for Turkey. Unsure about India.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Well, Putin is sitting on his nuclear button, and he is making threats. President Biden and his entire time are doing a very good job handling this sensitive situation. Pentagon holds briefing as Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues | full video (4hrs ago) [view link] Russian troops push forward in Ukraine as West takes aim at Russia's economy [view link] Why Russia appears to be losing the information war to Ukraine [view link] War in Ukraine: how far will Putin go? | The Economist [view link] Ukraine war latest: Talks end with no major outcome +++ Thousands arrested in Russia | DW News [view link] China's role in Ukraine – and Taiwan's fears | DW News [view link] Oil Is ‘One Of The Few Lifelines Russia Has' To 'Pay Bills, Soldiers, Buy Weapons’: Gallego [view link] American Forces Participate In Active NATO Military Exercises In Latvia [view link] How The War In Ukraine Could Turn The European Union Into A World Superpower [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
First off Russia is NOT the "aggressor" here. Hey have been provoked for years and felt they had no choice but to launch the operation in self-defense. They have made clear their goals and reasoning (see below). Russia happens to have fighter planes. A so-called "no fly zone" means you will have to engage in repeated aerial combat with them. They aren't Iraq or Serbia who didn't have viable airforces. You can't just declare this and magically it happens. [view link]
Dave_Anderson
2 years ago
Let corrupt Ukraine fight their own battles! Enough American blood has been spilled on foreign soil.
Cowboy12
2 years ago
Infowars is for morons and the idea that any American would be sucking Russian cock is disgusting. You're a fucking moronic asshole Dave. Go live in Russia douche bag traitor. We have no dog in this fight. Both sides suck.
skibum609
2 years ago
Russia is and will always been a shithole nation
SanchoRG
2 years ago
Second Russian Major General killed in the war. Its rapidluy becoming a Russian "No General Zone" [view link]
Uprightcitizen
2 years ago
Seems to me that it’s only a matter of days and some form of no fly zone will be established, Poland just made a bunch of MIGs available to the Ukrainians by flying them to Ramestien Air Field in Germany, not sure how the Ukrainians will be able to use them since I don’t know if they have any place in country to fly from so that means a third party involvement somewhere.
twentyfive
2 years ago
Poland has 90 combat aircraft (including 23 MIG-29) and 32 F-35As on order. It's not a huge air power, but it's comparable to Ukraine's pre-invasion inventory and not shabby compared to several of its neighbors (not including Germany). The Polish MIG-29 will be given to the U.S., who will give them to Ukraine. The U.S. will backfill the Polish inventory with F-16s. To me, this still says that NATO is avoiding a no-fly zone as much as possible. They're willing to replenish Ukrainian inventory, but not actually fly the planes in Ukrainian airspace.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Implementing a no fly zone over Ukraine would involve not only shooting down anything Russia decides is surplus and wants to offer up for target practice... Also grounding Ukraine aircraft and drones. And attacking ground based SAM sites in Ukraine and along the border in Belarus and RUSSIA. Might as well march in with M1's while were at it...
bkkruined
2 years ago
NATO pilots would have to target and fire upon Russian aircraft and anti-aircraft assets. That is how other countries get dragged in, and the surest way to spread war through Europe. I want to know where these aircraft will land to refuel and rearm. Unless Ukraine can rent an airfield adjacent to their border, providing fuel, arms, and ordnance to combat aircraft is kinetic participation...
gammanu95
2 years ago
Ukraine flying migs out of Poland isn't much different than where the migs came from in Korea and Vietnam.. (China?) Is Putin doesn't like it, ah, fuck him. What's he gonna do, attack a NATO member state? It's about time someone starts throwing underhanded "not a war" bullshit back at him...
bkkruined
2 years ago
The Polish MIGs will likely be transferred to air bases in Ukraine's far west. There's a few. It's unlikely that they'll launch from Poland. I guess that could happen eventually, but I can't see Poland liking that idea at all.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Newshour, TODAY [view link] Touchy thing, Putin making nuclear threats. But it is kind of like how JFK dealt with the Cuban Crisis, a "Quarantine". Some have suggested a Western Ukraine NFZ, or one for humanitarian corridors. I think Putin is wanting them to abandon Kiev. In full: Ukrainian president makes 'historic address' to British MPs [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
My guess is there's a third party involved here, as much as we don't want to get into a nuclear exchange with the Russians they don't want one either, don't think for one minute that we haven't had a few conversations and come to a few conclusions ourselves. My best bet is that we aren't afraid of Putin actually he's really more afraid of us.
twentyfive
2 years ago
CMI is correct. It would be a mistake to envision the whole of Ukraine like the news clips we see on TV. The western part of the country (around Lviv) is far from where the invasion is happening and has quite a few airports, several designated as "international". They're not JFK or LAX, but they have runways, staging areas, and presumably plenty of jet fuel on hand. Plus, it's been reported the majority of Ukraine's pre-invasion air assets are still intact (although I don't know where they are based) and I tend to believe it, because not even the Russian propaganda machine is bragging about destroying them - which they certainly would if they thought it was remotely believable.
misterorange
2 years ago
"they don't want one either" There is a risk that Putin could start using tactical nukes, even dirty tactical nukes. SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
And it seems to me that Poland's transfer plan is so they don't get stuck in a position where this whole thing is on them alone, probably because they are a lot smarter than to trust Joe Biden's word on anything.
misterorange
2 years ago
The Berlin wall fell in 1989 and the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. This shit is gotta be pretty damned fresh in the minds of anyone over 50 in Eastern Europe. Poland, Lithuania, Romania, Hungary... (and Moldova, Estonia and Latvia, all apparently real places?) I don't think any of them want shit to do with Putin. They're probably all pretty darned glad they weren't the ones invaded (this time) but know if Ukraine falls, they could be next. I'm willing to bet between them, they got a few old Soviet air bases between them that they can avoid scrutiny at... And it's about time NATO considers Georgia's request to join!!!
bkkruined
2 years ago
And Russia prided themselves on building durable equipment that could be used in war... From unprepared fields, highways and such... the biggest problem is that the Russians already know where all the old Soviet bases are.
bkkruined
2 years ago
Georgia joining has the same issues as Ukraine joining. Probably NATO will be dissolved and replaced with something which Russia can also be part of. I am a Ukrainian, Boris Johnson and the leaders of the other parties [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
SJG said "Probably NATO will be dissolved and replaced with something which Russia can also be part of." The United Nations already exists, you fuckwit.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
^ You really do have maybe 18 words and phrases you like to use over and over again and that's pretty much it, huh? Anyway, post away man. Everyone knows you're just here for drama and attention.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
CMI, others have called for this new org, a regional org, and to replace NATO. This was talked about when Ukraine became independent. They knew NATO should not expand further east. SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Poland To Send MIG-29 Jets To Ramstein Air Base [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Pentagon rejected this, but it could still be on: Poland Agrees To Hand Over MiG 29 Fighter Jets To Aid Ukraine [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
SJG said "others have called for this new org, a regional org, and to replace NATO." There was limited chatter about "re-inventing" NATO in the early-to-mid 1990s when pre-Putin Russia was caving in on itself and people were more afraid of Russian nukes blowing up in the silos or finding their way into the hands of Middle East terrorists. At that time, it seemed like a viable idea (to some...) to phase out a defensive alliance that was specifically set up to counter the USSR, because at that time Russia posed about as much threat as an asthmatic kitten and it was speculated (wrongly) that they'd never regain any of their previous threat. Also, in all of that chatter about "including Russia" in this fanciful "new organization," what that really meant was (1) securing its nuclear arsenal and (2) parting out its natural resources to the highest bidders. No one wanted a group hug with Yeltsin... Regardless, all that chatter about phasing out NATO withered on the vine roughly 5 years after Putin took control (so, about 15 years ago). But more relevant to right now, absolutely no one is even vaguely entertaining the idea of re-creating NATO with Russia on the inside while Russia is literally invading an Eastern European sovereign nation and rattling sabers at multiple NATO countries. No one except a creepy motherfucker in San Jose who couldn't sort out an internet connection in Silicon Valley when all the public libraries closed down during COVID, and also who spams a titty bar message board (but only during library hours!) about a crazy-pants rape cult that hasn't found its legs after 9 years of being "in progress," and thinks he can convinces guys who have a lot of fun buying dances at strip clubs that they shouldn't buy dances at strip clubs. Yeah, that dick muppet actually thinks NATO is going to dissolve itself to create a partnership with Russia. In closing, shut the fuck up.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
CMI you sound like you are about ready to bite off your own cock. Right now today, NATO is not the issue. But long term we want some other solution, not NATO, not the UN. Some new thing which Russia can also be a member of. SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Long term we need a democratic Russia
wld4tatas
2 years ago
Another issue barely making the news is who is giving / selling Ukraine drones? And who is actually flying them? US oughta just start kicking out lower end reapers, less sophisticated sensors, more missiles. 10, 20, 100 of them, launched from around Lviv? piloted by "volunteers" (in Nevada). They'd fuck that 40 miles long traffic jam right the fuck up. Talk about some carnage!!! Artillery crews would be terrified of creating any kind of a flash... Screw the no fly zone. Get creative on giving them air assets!!! OR just starting buying the Chinese drones!!! Putin would love it!!! Xi could give two fucks about who his shit kills as long as it's paid for, and it's not going to take a quality product to drop shit load of whoop ass on a highway full of armor just stuck in traffic!!!
bkkruined
2 years ago
One thing that almost none of the media is covering is the 4 points that Putin demands to end hostilities. It is shockingly reasonable. Ukraine must remain neutral ( not join NATO ) and recognize the autonomy of the Russian speaking eastern part of the country. That’s really it. Zelensky should jump at that. The media seems hell bent on encouraging war when a deal is on the table is reasonable.
mark94
2 years ago
"Long term we need a democratic Russia" Last week David Petraeus was on TV discussing Russia. He stated that their internal security force (i.e. the guys running around beating up and arresting protesters) was larger than that standing army... And there are more people in jail in Russia right now than in any other time in history. Including Stalin's regime. Who's going to suddenly start a campaign against Putin? the last guy was poisoned, almost died, when he finished recovering in Germany and returned put in jail. Sentenced additional time for not showing up for his trial while he was in a coma... The only way this is happening is Putin's own security services turning on him. Which isn't unlikely, really...
bkkruined
2 years ago
"deal is on the table is reasonable" About as reasonable as Putin disarming and remaining neutral. and recognizing the autonomy of.... Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan... Greater Manchuria? Maybe? (not sure where the Chinese stand on this today...) Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Latvia... Belarus, he can go ahead and take that shit over. It'll be an improvement for them...
bkkruined
2 years ago
Can you find all those countries on a map?
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
[view link] This article echos a lot of similar thoughts I'd had this past week: Who are these Russian "experts" urging a limited NFZ? How badly does his conventional military have to lose before Putin goes nuclear? My sympathies to the Ukrainian people, but it would be a relief if Putin only uses tactical nukes in Ukraine and does not use strategic weapons against those supplying Ukraine.
gammanu95
2 years ago
It has just been reported that the US rejected the Poland-Ukraine MiG fighter transfer. It makes sense that the transfer would have to come from a nuclear power, and one with the arsenal to stand toe-to-toe against Russia, since a direct transfer from Poland would invite a Russian attack and NATO all-in to nuclear holocaust. However, since those same fighter jets, even piloted by Ukrainians, would need to refuel and rearm from foreign bases, those foreign bases would become legitimate targets and spread the war across Europe. It is rare that I agree with any decision made by this administration, but I do agree that preventing the spread of war is more important than stopping the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I already believe that the Russian use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine is all but inevitable, but we cannot risk an exchange of strategic nuclear weapons between Russia and NATO. This is as much peril as the globe has been in since the Cuban Missile Crisis, Able Archer '83, or the Petrov Save. The difference? We have a more unstable, megalomaniacal, oligarch controlling Russia, and a more incompetent, less credible, unprofessional leadership in America. If we avoid Armageddon, it will be a miracle.
gammanu95
2 years ago
I’m not conceding that Gamma ever says anything worthwhile and it’s highly likely his last two posts were accidents, but I am in 100% agreement. 😘 Not the first time he and I have agreed, but no less painful.
Hank Moody
2 years ago
“It has just been reported that the US rejected the Poland-Ukraine MiG fighter transfer.“ The US wanted Poland to transfer the jets directly to Ukraine. That way, if it triggered WWIII, Poland would get the blame. Poland told the US they would transfer the planes to the US so they’d be responsible. The US said “no thanks”.
mark94
2 years ago
This article has LOTs of interesting background on what’s happening with Russia/Ukraine. How much is true and how much is propaganda ? I don’t know. [view link]
mark94
2 years ago
In a hearing today ( or maybe yesterday ), Ted Cruz said Biden was responsible for the Ukraine war: 1. The disastrous pull out from Afghanistan 2. Removing sanctions on the NordStream pipeline. Putin took this as a sign of weakness and a signal there’d be no consequences if he went into Ukraine.
mark94
2 years ago
Why the US rejected plan to deliver Polish jets to Ukraine [view link] Just fly them to the border, and then roll them across.This was how Franklin Roosevelt did it.  Republicans wanted isolationism, and so they passed a law saying that no aircraft could be flown out of the United States for military purposes.  So FDR just flew them to the Canadian border, and then rolled them across.   So since fighter jets are quite heavy and land and take off at about 200mph, just borrow a freeway or a highway to get the hard surface. SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
oh really mark? Rafael (Ted) Cruz? The guy who sucked up to Trump after he told everyone his wife was ugly and his father killed JFK? Nevermind his latest grovelling back to Fucker Carlson after calling the Jan 6 a terrorist attack... [view link] Cruz claimed: “Almost without exception, every time I’m on an airplane, either the captain or a flight attendant will come up to me, will hug me and say, ‘Thank you for fighting for us.’” (I wonder if that was on his flight to cancun?) At least Trump was a capable con artist and could stick with a lie... Cruz is just a smuck..
bkkruined
2 years ago
Ted Cruz is a jackass. The Houston newspaper revoked their endorsement years back. Give the Ukrainians their fighter planes. Follow FDR's example, fly then to the border, then roll them across. SJG King Henry 8th, Hawthorne CA [view link]
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
@ceoaticeesangelsllc "Can you find all those countries on a map?" Ya, there usually labeled and shit too, makes it real easy to find them if you aren't an illiterate dumbfuck.
bkkruined
2 years ago
BKK If you are done with your ramblings aboutCruz, do you accept that Afghanistan and Nordstream bungles by Biden caused Putin to view us as weak ?
mark94
2 years ago
^ I don't get this stupidity about Putin viewing any American President as weak, we have an armed service that can kick the shit out of the Russians, he knows that, his forces are all smoke and mirrors, what point do you think you're making. In all honesty if this past two weeks hasn't showed you who's weak, you are slow. In the event of a nuclear exchange we all have a problem, he's not going to risk that and you know it. For the record all the presidents as well as Putin have done their fair share of bungling, stop with the stupid arguments your guy lost, get over it.
twentyfive
2 years ago
Russia is engaging in low intensity warfare in Ukraine. They're not trying to kill as many people and destroy as much as they can. Like the US does. Right now it's Zelensky and his masters jn Washington who are responsible for any escalations.
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
No, they're bombing maternity and children's hospitals and mining refugee paths out of town. Russia is engaging in war crimes.
Tetradon
2 years ago
Fake news .
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
^ Putin stooge [view link]
Tetradon
2 years ago
It's not fake news and Icey knows this. He posts whatever will stir up the most drama. With regard to this entire topic, it's being a Putin cheerleader. If the majority of people here were pro-Russia, then Icey would be carrying water for the opposite side of the issue.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
@CMI, no shit, that seems to be the MO of a lot of posters here. Just ignore facts that contravene your narrative, don't address them, pretend they were never spoken. Like SJG repeating himself to say what a great job Biden has done when he hasn't said a thing of note. And that doesn't even get to the malicious trolls that don't believe a word they say. I find Icee's stuff a lot more believable when you consider he has an IQ of 75 and a busted moral compass
Tetradon
2 years ago
Real news is they're going to try to negotiate in turkey now. If you had more than crocodile tears for Ukraine you'd be focusing on possible peace and not sensationalizing war and fake news
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
^ Yes, how dare journalists report on the slaughter of women and children! Don't they realize they could have peace if they only kept their mouths shut about their suffering? Fuck Putin and fuck you too, Icee.
Tetradon
2 years ago
And icehole used to pretend he was anti-imperialist.
ime
2 years ago
Icee isn't anti imperialist, just anti American.
Tetradon
2 years ago
Iceefag is all about how stupid could any one person be, every time you think he's just said the dumbest thing ever, just wait, about a minute later, he out does himself.
twentyfive
2 years ago
Biden is the weakest president since Carter. Everyone knows this, and it blows my mind that there are still those who refuse to admit it. Biden has been on the wrong side of every policy decision of his entire career, foreign policy in particular! He is the most bungling fool since the teapot dome scandal. Leftist need to quit worrying about Trump, he's yesterday's news, and start worrying about the colossal clusterfuck that is Harris-Biden. yes, unequivocally, Putin and Xi were emboldened the moment Biden was sworn in because they know exactly who he is! This is the guy who was against providing stingers to the Afghan Mujahideen during the Soviet occupation. This is the guy who was against the 2011 UBL raid. This is the guy who abandoned our allies and citizens in Afghanistan. This is the guy who killed American energy independence, slashed out standard of living, and seeks to bankrupt the nation for generations to come. Biden is exactly who we thought he was - a weak, senile, demented old man who should have been put in a home years ago!
gammanu95
2 years ago
@Mark "do you accept that Afghanistan and Nordstream bungles by Biden caused Putin to view us as weak?" NO Being willing to bomb hopitals and kindergardens doesn't make us "strong".. We spent 20 years trying to 'help' Afghanistan... We lost something like 2,500 Americans in fighting there. And decided it's been enough, done, an entire generation was raised to be adults under that occupation... If they can't get rid of the Taliban, they must not want to... The only other option is to just kill them all. But what's that gonna solve? Obama should have pulled out his first year in office. From Putin's standpoint? HE for sure wanted us TO STAY. Continue with an unpopular occupation with constant insurgent attacks? Yep, he's hugely disappointed we didn't keep wasting resources... Like he's going to be doing soon, and get angry about it and kill old ladies and children out of spite. If Putin thinks that's strength (like apparently some in the GOP must?), fuck him. Making decisions about our actions, morals and values based on impressing an asshole like him is ridiculous.
bkkruined
2 years ago
Putin's probably lost more soldiers in two weeks fighting in Ukraine than we lost in 20 years in Afganistan. He doesn't care. And you dumbfucks think impressing him is important?
bkkruined
2 years ago
Biden's impotent failure in the Afghanistan withdrawal and bending over for Iran gave Putin the impression we would stand by and do nothing. Weakness always gets more people killed than strength. Strength is weakness to progressives; just ask Eric Blair. No smart enemy of the United States does this kind of crap to the strong.
skibum609
2 years ago
^ What strength are you talking about ? In less than three weeks there’s been over 6000 Russians KIA, we spent twenty years in Afghanistan and we lost less than half that amount
twentyfive
2 years ago
Um we didn't invade Afghanistan, but nice false flag.
skibum609
2 years ago
^ Really what did we do skibum?
twentyfive
2 years ago
Ya, gee, let's bring up Iran. Who launch a ballistic missile strike at a US Military base on Jan 8, 2020. [view link] "largest ballistic missile attack ever against Americans." 60 Minutes And, Trump tried to cover it up... A few guys had headaches... (apparently did a pretty good job of covering that up, actually?)
bkkruined
2 years ago
Wanna know why Putin didn't invade while Trump was president? For real? Putin was afraid Trump really would be impeached for doing nothing... Going back to 2019 and firing Marie Yovanovitch, it was pretty clear, Trump could really care less about Ukraine. Hell, going further back to the 2016 GOP convention that nominated him and the party platform basically took all mention they had of Ukraine (which they were using at least as an issue against Obama and Hillary) and cut it all out. Trump really only cared about it enough to get Zellensky to accuse Bidens of corruption. And the whole White Wing media jumped on that bandwagon, Bannon, Carlson, etc... Couldn't shut up about Ukraine, and Hunter... Any mention of Russia??? NOPE. Think Putin didn't notice that shit? Isn't he "so smart"? Ukraine was the new GOP punching bag, and he knew it. The party of Reagan and Bush was now bashing Ukraine every chance they had... While Trump, publicly stated how be believed Putin over US intelligence... And whipped his crowds into a frenzy saying he'd stop defending foreign countries. Why should we, what's in it for us? While "suggesting" we disband or just leave NATO!!! Putin wanted him to stay... Couldn't risk him leaving early. Because Putin doesn't care how strong America is. Russia alone would never be as strong, much of the Soviet Union's strength actually came from Ukraine. America's strength only matters to him if it's willing to use it to help it's allies. And while Biden is a bit feckless and timid, Trump was whole sale against it trying to build support to guarantee that was the new standard of US foreign policy. You guy's really think that not how Putin saw this? (but really, Trump didn't want to escalate against IRAN!!! for fucks sake!!!)
bkkruined
2 years ago
Democracy Now [view link] A closer look at Putin's mindset and endgame for war in Ukraine [view link] Kremlin Vet: They’ll Overthrow Putin Before Giving Him ‘Bad News’ About Russian Setbacks In Ukraine [view link] Should Fighter Jets Be Supplied To Ukraine? Alexander Vindman And Lawrence Discuss [view link] Zelenskyy Says He Believes Putin Will Negotiate [view link] Senator Predicts 'Strong Bipartisan Support' For Ukraine Aid Package [view link] Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer [view link] SJG McDonald's didn't just close 850 restaurants in Russia - it froze a whole 30-year investment (Russia) [view link] Ginger Baker's Air Force - 12 Gates of the City (1970) [view link]
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
The progressive agenda; War! Wah Trump. Highest inflation in 40 years. Wah, Trump. Gas prices highest in history, Wah Trump. Obama's race war come to fruition, Weah, trump. Welfare seekers overrunning the southern border, Wah Trump. Gee 25 an invasion of 170,000 troops against a country heavily armed with modern weaponry is exactly like troops huddling on an air base and planes flying around bombing people. exactly the same. We were attacked by someone under the protection of the Government of Afghanistan and invaded to remove them. Which we did. We were then asked to stay. Which we did. We were then asked to leave. Which we did, by running away and leaving people to die. Same exact thing Icee25.
skibum609
2 years ago
^ I get it you disagree with me who fucking cares, as far as I’m concerned your disagreeing with me just proves I’m correct , all of your vitriol and insults are just the hallmark of a weak little man with a major inferiority complex.
twentyfive
2 years ago
They said we have to get rid of Trump to stop WW3 so they put in Biden and now they want WW3 Make it make sense
mark94
2 years ago
It just proves that in the kingdom of the blind, the Republicans have one eye. (and the democrat party is anything but the adults)
gammanu95
2 years ago
"Make it make sense" Inflation is transitory Inflation is here to stay, but inflation is good There is no inflation, it's price gouging by greedy corporations Inflation is Putin's fault! This is just the global elite controlling markets the only ways they know how. War is one of those tools they use over and over to control markets. They want to finish off the middle class once and for all before the great reset
SanchoRG
2 years ago
Sancho thats boring if you actually think politicians have much influence on inflation. Its not like a lever that some politician get to pull. Honestly the correlation between the "present" politician and present economics is a lagging indicator of previous policies + forces beyond political control
Uprightcitizen
2 years ago
The way Zelensky has been talking lately he acts like he can demand that the West enforces a no-fly zone for him. It's strange. Ukraine is mighty pissed they aren't getting the NFZ but there was nothing in the Minsk agreements that stated (directly or indirectly) that the U.S. or any Western country was required to provide it for them. That said, the media isn't going to stop pushing for it. It's getting so painfully obvious in all their reports, the way they keep inching closer and closer to making it seem like there's no choice but to go that route.
LapHunt
2 years ago
I didn't say politicians, I said global elite. Politicians are just another tool in their bags
SanchoRG
2 years ago
A good piece of history to remember is the Spanish American War of 1899. It was largely started by lies told in the media ( William Randolph Hearst ). Supposedly, the Spanish destroyed an American warship in Cuba. We learned much later that it’s boiler simply blew.
mark94
2 years ago
Biden sent like 15 billion in military aid to Ukraine. Money that was slated for covid testing and vaccines... shows his real priorities. Zelensky expects the west to keep him in power coz he's been their puppet and now feels abandoned after fighting a proxy war between the west and Russia in Eastern Ukraine since 2014. And the media does the bidding of its owners and those who buy ads. There's no free media jn the us
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
Sorry 25, but your last post was pathetic. You are the typical douche bag from NY/NJ, not a bit different from Donald Trump. No wonder you hate them both.
skibum609
2 years ago
^ You’re boring
twentyfive
2 years ago
Baloney on white bread with yellow mustard is fine.^
skibum609
2 years ago
He's the wurst at spelling
CandymanOfProvidence
2 years ago
He doesn’t need to spell, as long as he can keep chasing those ambulances he’ll never figure out what to do if by some quirk he actually catches one.
twentyfive
2 years ago
as per Merriam-Webster, baloney is a perfectly acceptable variant spelling of bologna. [view link] Skibum609 wins this round.
gammanu95
2 years ago
Basic question? Suppose you establish a no-fly zone and then Putin ignores it and keeps planes flying. What next?
rdig
2 years ago
@misterorange: missile defense systems are under development but not deployed and certain not on a large enough scale to counter a full nuclear strike. Hypersonic missiles will probably render them obsolete.
rdig
2 years ago
@misterorange: Your post is nuts! You are willing to risk nuclear war on the one in a million chance that it's all a big bluff and Russia doesn't have any actual nukes?
rdig
2 years ago
PBS Newshour weekend, 2pm PT [view link] SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Putin's internal command structure is crumbling. We should strike while the iron's hot. Send in the F-35s. Those assholes won't pull the trigger on nukes.
misterorange
2 years ago
Putin is the only one who doesn't know he's been beaten, but he will soon. He will be like Hitler in the bunker.
misterorange
2 years ago
^ I do think that this could result a weakened or deposed Putin, but there's too many variables to say for sure. "Those assholes won't pull the trigger on nukes." I don't think that's necessarily true. Because I think it's possible that Putin can talk himself into believing that Western nuclear powers would never counterattack a nuclear strike with our own nukes. And I also don't believe *that's* true, but Putin could believe it. Ultimately, I think that two nuclear superpowers in direct combat should be the absolute last scenario we run to the final move.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
We ended WWII with nukes that made us the most powerful nation on earth. The irony is that now they make us weaker, because we're afraid to use them. Putin doesn't want Moscow and Saint Petersburg blown up any more than we do NYC or LA.
misterorange
2 years ago
Nukes make us weaker because we own them. Ukraine gave them up and now nothing is off limits in how they fight against Russia. OTOH we are paralyzed because we have nukes. Not claiming to know the answer, but I feel like we shouldn't be so afraid to correct a wrong that will lead to big problems for us in the future.
misterorange
2 years ago
Sure, but when we dropped two nukes on Japan we had the benefit of being the only nuclear-capable power at the time. And even if you ultimately come down on the side of those two bombings being the right thing to do in that historical context, it remains an ethically and morally complex action that we should not be anxious to repeat. I don't believe that Putin wants Moscow or St. Petersburg nuked. But I do think it's possible for Putin to contort reality to the point that he's convinced that he could launch a nuke and Western powers would not respond in kind. And, from my relatively safe position as an armchair national security speculator, I still don't think we should put any of that to a test. I'd be okay with everyone being afraid to use their nukes. It's certainly better than if the opposite were true.
Call.Me.Ishmael
2 years ago
Well yeah, with Slow Joe in the driver's seat. Everyone who voted for him should be ashamed.
misterorange
2 years ago
Only a complete idiot would deny that Trump kept the world safe, and now we're all terrified.
misterorange
2 years ago
There should be no fly zone whenever the US invades a country. Un peacekeepers should disarm the US and set up free elections. Or maybe someone can support a colored revolution in the US
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
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