Give Ukraine their no-fly zone!
misterorange
Kamala, you're FIRED!
This is fucking bullshit. The Biden administration, along with many Republicans, are trying to tiptoe through a minefield, just to reach a cliff on the other side.
The only thing everyone seems to agree on is that Putin intends to recreate the USSR, or possibly the Russian Empire. Shit, even if he plans to stop at Ukraine, he certainly doesn't want Moscow and St. Petersburg to become the next Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think that would kind of throw a monkey wrench into his expansion plans.
He's got a couple of big advantages over NATO members. First of all, he's ruthless as fuck. He thinks nothing of throwing his own citizens into a long period of economic suffering and hunger. In his mind, they've been there before and survived. He doesn't care about his own soldiers dying for a cause they don't even understand. And apparently he doesn't mind occupying a pile of rubble that was once a thriving country. (I'm sure he has his reasons.)
Has he gone totally insane? Unless he took a crazy pill just a few months ago, I think not. Every US President since Clinton has considered him a shrewd tactician. Biden recently called him a "worthy adversary." Regardless of how much we despise his objectives and methods, there's no denying he's always been a savvy and intelligent motherfucker.
Never forget that Putin is a master of deception. If we think he's gone nuts, it's because that's exactly what he wants us to think. (Nice touch, hitting that nuclear plant, but only the admin building. Wow he MUST be crazy, right?) He knows full well that in a conventional fight with NATO, he'd be wiped out immediately. Half an hour of full-on attack by our F-35s and those untrained and undersupplied young conscripts would throw down their weapons and run away with just their dicks in their hands.
So Putin is doing what he does best - manipulating everyone else's behavior with a giant mind-fuck. The crazier and more unpredictable we think he is, the less likely we are to intervene in any meaningful way, and he's playing us like a fiddle... (or a balalaika).
If we don't put an immediate end to this Ukraine invasion, Putin's endeavors will seem like nothing when China follows his example and moves on Taiwan. But crush this whole thing now, in a quick and decisive manner, and watch how fast President Xi will distance himself from Putin and start behaving like a good little boy.
Putin ain't gonna push that button. And if he did, our missile defense systems are 10 times what his are. That is, if he even has any. The only way to avoid the dreaded "World War III" is for the US and its allies to maintain absolute superiority both militarily and economically. Right now we're failing at both because we have a bunch of pussies in charge.
Set up the no-fly zone, and simultaneously annihilate that 40-mile convoy of tanks. His entire military will surrender and the citizens of Russia will revolt in a way he won't fucking believe or be able to control. He will have lost everything, and nobody there will have the balls (or the stupidity) to launch a nuclear strike on his order.
And I'll go one step further. It's been well reported that many of these "oligarchs" and other top Russian officials have their children attending some of the most prestigious universities in the US and UK. Well, I say grab them and throw them all in prison. They only get out if and when this whole Russian invasion thing is resolved to our liking.
Putin wants to act crazy? We give him crazy right back.
The only thing everyone seems to agree on is that Putin intends to recreate the USSR, or possibly the Russian Empire. Shit, even if he plans to stop at Ukraine, he certainly doesn't want Moscow and St. Petersburg to become the next Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think that would kind of throw a monkey wrench into his expansion plans.
He's got a couple of big advantages over NATO members. First of all, he's ruthless as fuck. He thinks nothing of throwing his own citizens into a long period of economic suffering and hunger. In his mind, they've been there before and survived. He doesn't care about his own soldiers dying for a cause they don't even understand. And apparently he doesn't mind occupying a pile of rubble that was once a thriving country. (I'm sure he has his reasons.)
Has he gone totally insane? Unless he took a crazy pill just a few months ago, I think not. Every US President since Clinton has considered him a shrewd tactician. Biden recently called him a "worthy adversary." Regardless of how much we despise his objectives and methods, there's no denying he's always been a savvy and intelligent motherfucker.
Never forget that Putin is a master of deception. If we think he's gone nuts, it's because that's exactly what he wants us to think. (Nice touch, hitting that nuclear plant, but only the admin building. Wow he MUST be crazy, right?) He knows full well that in a conventional fight with NATO, he'd be wiped out immediately. Half an hour of full-on attack by our F-35s and those untrained and undersupplied young conscripts would throw down their weapons and run away with just their dicks in their hands.
So Putin is doing what he does best - manipulating everyone else's behavior with a giant mind-fuck. The crazier and more unpredictable we think he is, the less likely we are to intervene in any meaningful way, and he's playing us like a fiddle... (or a balalaika).
If we don't put an immediate end to this Ukraine invasion, Putin's endeavors will seem like nothing when China follows his example and moves on Taiwan. But crush this whole thing now, in a quick and decisive manner, and watch how fast President Xi will distance himself from Putin and start behaving like a good little boy.
Putin ain't gonna push that button. And if he did, our missile defense systems are 10 times what his are. That is, if he even has any. The only way to avoid the dreaded "World War III" is for the US and its allies to maintain absolute superiority both militarily and economically. Right now we're failing at both because we have a bunch of pussies in charge.
Set up the no-fly zone, and simultaneously annihilate that 40-mile convoy of tanks. His entire military will surrender and the citizens of Russia will revolt in a way he won't fucking believe or be able to control. He will have lost everything, and nobody there will have the balls (or the stupidity) to launch a nuclear strike on his order.
And I'll go one step further. It's been well reported that many of these "oligarchs" and other top Russian officials have their children attending some of the most prestigious universities in the US and UK. Well, I say grab them and throw them all in prison. They only get out if and when this whole Russian invasion thing is resolved to our liking.
Putin wants to act crazy? We give him crazy right back.
141 comments
So, how does he end this ?
Start promoting peace not fanning war
I could never ask a group to not fight for the freedom if that’s what they want to do God bless them but honestly at this point I hope they just raise the white flag to end this, and avoid any more bloodshed.
If we were willing to make this sacrifice, Putin wouldn't have enough rubles to pay for this little misadventure.
What the U.S. (and other NATO nations) will do (likely via the CIA) is equip and train an insurgency while giving them a safe havens in Poland and possibly Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Moldova is nominally neutral, but more Western/NATO leaning (especially given Russian fuckery in Transnistria). The goal here will not be just re-establishing Ukrainian independence, but also creating a sinkhole for Russian resources and money, as well creating a center for stoking anti-Putin sentiment in Russia. The CIA has been training Ukrainian elite forces and intelligence services since the Crimean annexation, so the infrastructure is already there.
The obvious downside is that an active insurgency takes a while to spin up, and usually takes years to be effective. So, this is going to go on for a while. That's possibly the best-case scenario, because a rapid end to the conflict would likely involve a mushroom cloud or three.
One thing to note is that not directly intervening to date has been a tremendous, almost unimaginable geo-political success in terms of major policy shifts and isolating Russia. Keep those images flowing of death and destruction, they are doing wonders, though unfortunately at great expense to Ukrainians.
Another week or two of this and then that might be the time to fly in and bomb that 40-mile convoy to dust.
Eh. Listen man, I get it. You're a serial troll who for several years has been singularly focused on causing turmoil on strip club forums because ... reasons. Honestly, the reasons why are probably as sad as you are. So, who cares. Anywho...
There's many differences between the combat theaters of Syria and Ukraine, and that includes everything ranging from terrain to culture. So, comparing the two is pretty much apples and oranges. I think anyone placing bets in any direction right now is unwise.
What we do know is that Russia's planned rapid and overwhelming defeat of Ukrainian forces didn't work out how they wanted. I mean, they will eventually take all of Ukraine or a majority of it (possibly leaving an autonomous region of insurgency around Lviv). But there will also be a well-supplied and dedicated insurgency that will be bolstered by the fact that the several countries on Ukraine's western edge are in NATO would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be a Russian vassal state.
So, taking Ukraine will likely be comparatively much easier (and cheaper) than keeping it. Russia's economy is smaller than Texas' (even before sanctions) and this won't be cheap for them. A prolonged, costly, and unpopular war in a country that has long borders with NATO countries *could* wind up being a huge opportunity for NATO and Western intelligence agencies, and a crippling blunder for Putin.
Except that it's also going to result in massive loss of life and a negative impact on numerous small and large economies around the world. If Putin had taken Luhansk and Donetsk and left the rest of Ukraine alone, then he would have his security buffer (along with a warm-water port in Crimea) and the rest of the world would have quietly re-drawn the maps of Europe in a year or five.
But anything vaguely resembling direct action against Russia will not happen unless there's a radical change of some sort.
Anyway, I'm sure you've got some trollish response with all your odd written tics and phrases prepped and ready to go. So, go for it. It's your weird slow-jam apparently.
The question here is not whether we are going to end our interventionist foreign policy. It's going to end soon because we won't have the money to pay for it. The only question is how soon that will be.
Totally agree. The opportunity to declare a no fly zone was before the invasion. IMO, hindsight is no excuse because these are professional politicians and professional warriors (pentagon) whose job it is to play out and make adequate plans for all types of possible situations. They even had a full day to respond between Putin moving into the separatist regions and the start of the invasion into the rest of the Ukraine.
~ misterorange✪✔ 02-25-2022
~ “I get my news from TUSCL”
~ Joined Sep, 2015
"If a wider war breaks out in Europe, should the U.S.
military be involved?"
All Voters - Yes - 49%
Yes by Income
Under $30K: 37%
$30-50K: 48%
$50-100K: 51%
$100-200K: 52%
Over $200K: 66%
“Too bad it's not true.”
“Americans blind themselves to the ways that they are just like everyone else.”
“It is also called Superiority Complex; a burning desire to minimize or undermine other human beings to make themelves feel better…”
“Americans don’t always have self-awareness (denial) to know they are coming across to people around the world as a hypocritical, greedy bullying, opportunistic, imperialist power…”
“Yes, America's economy is a war economy. Not a "manufacturing" economy. Not an "agricultural" economy. Nor a "service" economy. Not even a "consumer" economy.”
'America's Outrageous War Economy!'
Published: Aug. 18, 2008
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/wh…
T H E U N D E N I A B L E T R U T H
“The US population is generally ignorant, mis-educated, and deliberately lied-to, about international affairs even more than domestic politics.
They think of themselves as “America” and say, “we” and “us” when speaking about the national state of which they really know little and have less control.”
“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few...”
~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg
~ Born: 3rd January 2003 , Sweden
~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
should the US become involved in a European War, if the Ukraine Invasion spreads to more countries? Only in accordance with NATO treaty obligations.
Some posters think Putin is bluffing about direct attacks on countries who impose a No-Fly Zone or otherwise help defend Ukraine. Maybe he is, but do you think a madman with nuclear weapons would be unafraid to use them if he's going to lose them?
docsavage thinks that direct military assistance in Ukraine would be too expensive, especially when examined in light of our current deficit spending, budgetary crises, and entitlement obligations. I actually agree. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is heinous and criminal, but how does engaging in direct conflict against Russia benefit the USA? In short, it doesn't. Russia cannot hold Ukraine. Just as Russia put Spetsnatz covertly into Crimea and Donetsk, so the US and other western countries can, have, and will add our own covert force multipliers to guerrilla and resistance fighters in Ukraine. That is how the Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan, that is how the US lost in Vietnam.
The US loss in Afghanistan is because we have a weak and feckless leader whose administration lacks any sort of accountability, and a military and intelligence community which is more focused on internal social justice issues than they are warfighting and national defense. Russia does not have that problem, but they have others.
A massacre of people who don’t know each other for the profit of people who know each other, but don’t massacre each other…
“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few...”
~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg
~ Born: 3rd January 2003 , Sweden
~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
I tend to agree with this being a possibility. The window to try a no fly zone has closed. It was only open before the actual invasion started, Putin has committed his forces and I don't see him backing down now unless there's a way he can save face.
Trying to force him to stop by shooting down his jets isn't saving face, it would probably just incite him to up the ante regardless of the consequences. We don't need another shooting war even if we would likely win. How is coming out on top after almost total death and destruction in a nuclear exchange winning?
The only benefactor of USA and Russia going at it is China, they're probably hoping that it happens.
Xi would invade Taiwan two seconds after the first exchange of fire between Russian and American forces.
We can get away with providing safe havens, training, intelligence, supplies, and weapons from the other side of the border essentially because Russia has as much (if not more) experience at fighting proxy wars as we do. They can be unhappy about it, but those protests would be pretty empty.
I've always been critical of the U.S. providing as much aid and weaponry to Saudi Arabia as we do. The only cynical defense of it is that we'd rather they buy from us than China, but that doesn't hold a lot of water with me.
I'll be interested to read about your petition (specifically naming Biden as a war criminal) to the UN over this matter, but it's probably going to be an uphill battle, as Biden announced an end to the U.S. support for Saudi-led operations in Yemen on Feb. 4, 2021 (within his first month as President).
Also, you're only bringing up Yemen because you're solely interested in creating drama and turmoil, and aren't knowledgeable enough to engage on the topic of this thread, Ukraine. You're Dixie/cacaplop, but reading from different cue cards.
Have a day.
Congratulation on expanding your weird manic crush on Russian defensive equipment from one system to two. I'm sure the three of you will be very happy together.
As I recall, the US blocked selling a superior version of their anti-missile to Turkey ( and, maybe, India ) because they ( correctly ) believed those countries would allow Russia to analyze the system in detail.
Pentagon holds briefing as Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues | full video (4hrs ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0bTgpo…
Russian troops push forward in Ukraine as West takes aim at Russia's economy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adpXdxAf…
Why Russia appears to be losing the information war to Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySPXBS2o…
War in Ukraine: how far will Putin go? | The Economist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s13sOvS…
Ukraine war latest: Talks end with no major outcome +++ Thousands arrested in Russia | DW News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMZ2jQgg…
China's role in Ukraine – and Taiwan's fears | DW News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89eIzbZ_…
Oil Is ‘One Of The Few Lifelines Russia Has' To 'Pay Bills, Soldiers, Buy Weapons’: Gallego
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOMWYhtu…
American Forces Participate In Active NATO Military Exercises In Latvia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va2h3Wjc…
How The War In Ukraine Could Turn The European Union Into A World Superpower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py-nk6e-…
SJG
They have made clear their goals and reasoning (see below).
Russia happens to have fighter planes. A so-called "no fly zone" means you will have to engage in repeated aerial combat with them. They aren't Iraq or Serbia who didn't have viable airforces. You can't just declare this and magically it happens.
https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-re…
Enough American blood has been spilled on foreign soil.
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoint…
To me, this still says that NATO is avoiding a no-fly zone as much as possible. They're willing to replenish Ukrainian inventory, but not actually fly the planes in Ukrainian airspace.
Also grounding Ukraine aircraft and drones.
And attacking ground based SAM sites in Ukraine and along the border in Belarus and RUSSIA.
Might as well march in with M1's while were at it...
I want to know where these aircraft will land to refuel and rearm. Unless Ukraine can rent an airfield adjacent to their border, providing fuel, arms, and ordnance to combat aircraft is kinetic participation...
Is Putin doesn't like it, ah, fuck him. What's he gonna do, attack a NATO member state?
It's about time someone starts throwing underhanded "not a war" bullshit back at him...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPb3E-AJ…
Touchy thing, Putin making nuclear threats. But it is kind of like how JFK dealt with the Cuban Crisis, a "Quarantine". Some have suggested a Western Ukraine NFZ, or one for humanitarian corridors.
I think Putin is wanting them to abandon Kiev.
In full: Ukrainian president makes 'historic address' to British MPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XEA0-FY…
SJG
Plus, it's been reported the majority of Ukraine's pre-invasion air assets are still intact (although I don't know where they are based) and I tend to believe it, because not even the Russian propaganda machine is bragging about destroying them - which they certainly would if they thought it was remotely believable.
There is a risk that Putin could start using tactical nukes, even dirty tactical nukes.
SJG
This shit is gotta be pretty damned fresh in the minds of anyone over 50 in Eastern Europe.
Poland, Lithuania, Romania, Hungary... (and Moldova, Estonia and Latvia, all apparently real places?)
I don't think any of them want shit to do with Putin. They're probably all pretty darned glad they weren't the ones invaded (this time) but know if Ukraine falls, they could be next. I'm willing to bet between them, they got a few old Soviet air bases between them that they can avoid scrutiny at...
And it's about time NATO considers Georgia's request to join!!!
From unprepared fields, highways and such...
the biggest problem is that the Russians already know where all the old Soviet bases are.
I am a Ukrainian, Boris Johnson and the leaders of the other parties
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XEA0-FY…
SJG
The United Nations already exists, you fuckwit.
Anyway, post away man. Everyone knows you're just here for drama and attention.
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6uA6a9j…
SJG
Poland Agrees To Hand Over MiG 29 Fighter Jets To Aid Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lsFBh_G…
SJG
There was limited chatter about "re-inventing" NATO in the early-to-mid 1990s when pre-Putin Russia was caving in on itself and people were more afraid of Russian nukes blowing up in the silos or finding their way into the hands of Middle East terrorists. At that time, it seemed like a viable idea (to some...) to phase out a defensive alliance that was specifically set up to counter the USSR, because at that time Russia posed about as much threat as an asthmatic kitten and it was speculated (wrongly) that they'd never regain any of their previous threat. Also, in all of that chatter about "including Russia" in this fanciful "new organization," what that really meant was (1) securing its nuclear arsenal and (2) parting out its natural resources to the highest bidders. No one wanted a group hug with Yeltsin...
Regardless, all that chatter about phasing out NATO withered on the vine roughly 5 years after Putin took control (so, about 15 years ago). But more relevant to right now, absolutely no one is even vaguely entertaining the idea of re-creating NATO with Russia on the inside while Russia is literally invading an Eastern European sovereign nation and rattling sabers at multiple NATO countries.
No one except a creepy motherfucker in San Jose who couldn't sort out an internet connection in Silicon Valley when all the public libraries closed down during COVID, and also who spams a titty bar message board (but only during library hours!) about a crazy-pants rape cult that hasn't found its legs after 9 years of being "in progress," and thinks he can convinces guys who have a lot of fun buying dances at strip clubs that they shouldn't buy dances at strip clubs. Yeah, that dick muppet actually thinks NATO is going to dissolve itself to create a partnership with Russia.
In closing, shut the fuck up.
Right now today, NATO is not the issue. But long term we want some other solution, not NATO, not the UN. Some new thing which Russia can also be a member of.
SJG
US oughta just start kicking out lower end reapers, less sophisticated sensors, more missiles.
10, 20, 100 of them, launched from around Lviv? piloted by "volunteers" (in Nevada). They'd fuck that 40 miles long traffic jam right the fuck up. Talk about some carnage!!!
Artillery crews would be terrified of creating any kind of a flash...
Screw the no fly zone. Get creative on giving them air assets!!!
OR just starting buying the Chinese drones!!! Putin would love it!!! Xi could give two fucks about who his shit kills as long as it's paid for, and it's not going to take a quality product to drop shit load of whoop ass on a highway full of armor just stuck in traffic!!!
The media seems hell bent on encouraging war when a deal is on the table is reasonable.
Last week David Petraeus was on TV discussing Russia. He stated that their internal security force (i.e. the guys running around beating up and arresting protesters) was larger than that standing army...
And there are more people in jail in Russia right now than in any other time in history. Including Stalin's regime.
Who's going to suddenly start a campaign against Putin? the last guy was poisoned, almost died, when he finished recovering in Germany and returned put in jail. Sentenced additional time for not showing up for his trial while he was in a coma...
The only way this is happening is Putin's own security services turning on him. Which isn't unlikely, really...
About as reasonable as Putin disarming and remaining neutral.
and recognizing the autonomy of.... Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan...
Greater Manchuria? Maybe? (not sure where the Chinese stand on this today...)
Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Latvia...
Belarus, he can go ahead and take that shit over. It'll be an improvement for them...
This article echos a lot of similar thoughts I'd had this past week: Who are these Russian "experts" urging a limited NFZ? How badly does his conventional military have to lose before Putin goes nuclear? My sympathies to the Ukrainian people, but it would be a relief if Putin only uses tactical nukes in Ukraine and does not use strategic weapons against those supplying Ukraine.
It is rare that I agree with any decision made by this administration, but I do agree that preventing the spread of war is more important than stopping the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I already believe that the Russian use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine is all but inevitable, but we cannot risk an exchange of strategic nuclear weapons between Russia and NATO. This is as much peril as the globe has been in since the Cuban Missile Crisis, Able Archer '83, or the Petrov Save. The difference? We have a more unstable, megalomaniacal, oligarch controlling Russia, and a more incompetent, less credible, unprofessional leadership in America. If we avoid Armageddon, it will be a miracle.
The US wanted Poland to transfer the jets directly to Ukraine. That way, if it triggered WWIII, Poland would get the blame. Poland told the US they would transfer the planes to the US so they’d be responsible. The US said “no thanks”.
https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=50814
1. The disastrous pull out from Afghanistan
2. Removing sanctions on the NordStream pipeline.
Putin took this as a sign of weakness and a signal there’d be no consequences if he went into Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVpeWv0…
Just fly them to the border, and then roll them across.This was how Franklin Roosevelt did it. Republicans wanted isolationism, and so they passed a law saying that no aircraft could be flown out of the United States for military purposes. So FDR just flew them to the Canadian border, and then rolled them across.
So since fighter jets are quite heavy and land and take off at about 200mph, just borrow a freeway or a highway to get the hard surface.
SJG
Rafael (Ted) Cruz?
The guy who sucked up to Trump after he told everyone his wife was ugly and his father killed JFK?
Nevermind his latest grovelling back to Fucker Carlson after calling the Jan 6 a terrorist attack...
https://news.yahoo.com/people-think-some…
Cruz claimed: “Almost without exception, every time I’m on an airplane, either the captain or a flight attendant will come up to me, will hug me and say, ‘Thank you for fighting for us.’”
(I wonder if that was on his flight to cancun?)
At least Trump was a capable con artist and could stick with a lie... Cruz is just a smuck..
Give the Ukrainians their fighter planes. Follow FDR's example, fly then to the border, then roll them across.
SJG
King Henry 8th, Hawthorne CA
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=10294
"Can you find all those countries on a map?"
Ya, there usually labeled and shit too, makes it real easy to find them if you aren't an illiterate dumbfuck.
If you are done with your ramblings aboutCruz, do you accept that Afghanistan and Nordstream bungles by Biden caused Putin to view us as weak ?
In the event of a nuclear exchange we all have a problem, he's not going to risk that and you know it.
For the record all the presidents as well as Putin have done their fair share of bungling, stop with the stupid arguments your guy lost, get over it.
Russia is engaging in war crimes.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/ru…
And that doesn't even get to the malicious trolls that don't believe a word they say. I find Icee's stuff a lot more believable when you consider he has an IQ of 75 and a busted moral compass
If you had more than crocodile tears for Ukraine you'd be focusing on possible peace and not sensationalizing war and fake news
Fuck Putin and fuck you too, Icee.
yes, unequivocally, Putin and Xi were emboldened the moment Biden was sworn in because they know exactly who he is! This is the guy who was against providing stingers to the Afghan Mujahideen during the Soviet occupation. This is the guy who was against the 2011 UBL raid. This is the guy who abandoned our allies and citizens in Afghanistan. This is the guy who killed American energy independence, slashed out standard of living, and seeks to bankrupt the nation for generations to come. Biden is exactly who we thought he was - a weak, senile, demented old man who should have been put in a home years ago!
"do you accept that Afghanistan and Nordstream bungles by Biden caused Putin to view us as weak?"
NO
Being willing to bomb hopitals and kindergardens doesn't make us "strong"..
We spent 20 years trying to 'help' Afghanistan... We lost something like 2,500 Americans in fighting there. And decided it's been enough, done, an entire generation was raised to be adults under that occupation... If they can't get rid of the Taliban, they must not want to...
The only other option is to just kill them all. But what's that gonna solve?
Obama should have pulled out his first year in office.
From Putin's standpoint? HE for sure wanted us TO STAY. Continue with an unpopular occupation with constant insurgent attacks? Yep, he's hugely disappointed we didn't keep wasting resources... Like he's going to be doing soon, and get angry about it and kill old ladies and children out of spite.
If Putin thinks that's strength (like apparently some in the GOP must?), fuck him. Making decisions about our actions, morals and values based on impressing an asshole like him is ridiculous.
He doesn't care.
And you dumbfucks think impressing him is important?
In less than three weeks there’s been over 6000 Russians KIA, we spent twenty years in Afghanistan and we lost less than half that amount
Who launch a ballistic missile strike at a US Military base on Jan 8, 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_…
"largest ballistic missile attack ever against Americans." 60 Minutes
And, Trump tried to cover it up... A few guys had headaches...
(apparently did a pretty good job of covering that up, actually?)
For real?
Putin was afraid Trump really would be impeached for doing nothing...
Going back to 2019 and firing Marie Yovanovitch, it was pretty clear, Trump could really care less about Ukraine. Hell, going further back to the 2016 GOP convention that nominated him and the party platform basically took all mention they had of Ukraine (which they were using at least as an issue against Obama and Hillary) and cut it all out.
Trump really only cared about it enough to get Zellensky to accuse Bidens of corruption. And the whole White Wing media jumped on that bandwagon, Bannon, Carlson, etc... Couldn't shut up about Ukraine, and Hunter... Any mention of Russia??? NOPE.
Think Putin didn't notice that shit? Isn't he "so smart"? Ukraine was the new GOP punching bag, and he knew it. The party of Reagan and Bush was now bashing Ukraine every chance they had...
While Trump, publicly stated how be believed Putin over US intelligence...
And whipped his crowds into a frenzy saying he'd stop defending foreign countries. Why should we, what's in it for us?
While "suggesting" we disband or just leave NATO!!!
Putin wanted him to stay... Couldn't risk him leaving early.
Because Putin doesn't care how strong America is. Russia alone would never be as strong, much of the Soviet Union's strength actually came from Ukraine.
America's strength only matters to him if it's willing to use it to help it's allies.
And while Biden is a bit feckless and timid, Trump was whole sale against it trying to build support to guarantee that was the new standard of US foreign policy.
You guy's really think that not how Putin saw this?
(but really, Trump didn't want to escalate against IRAN!!! for fucks sake!!!)
https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2022/…
A closer look at Putin's mindset and endgame for war in Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnRikzl…
Kremlin Vet: They’ll Overthrow Putin Before Giving Him ‘Bad News’ About Russian Setbacks In Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgZQOkP…
Should Fighter Jets Be Supplied To Ukraine? Alexander Vindman And Lawrence Discuss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDn55oCO…
Zelenskyy Says He Believes Putin Will Negotiate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn45LzXa…
Senator Predicts 'Strong Bipartisan Support' For Ukraine Aid Package
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHPFMBEd…
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAG…
SJG
McDonald's didn't just close 850 restaurants in Russia - it froze a whole 30-year investment (Russia)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-did…
Ginger Baker's Air Force - 12 Gates of the City (1970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED_6dYfj…
Make it make sense
Inflation is transitory
Inflation is here to stay, but inflation is good
There is no inflation, it's price gouging by greedy corporations
Inflation is Putin's fault!
This is just the global elite controlling markets the only ways they know how. War is one of those tools they use over and over to control markets. They want to finish off the middle class once and for all before the great reset
That said, the media isn't going to stop pushing for it. It's getting so painfully obvious in all their reports, the way they keep inching closer and closer to making it seem like there's no choice but to go that route.
Zelensky expects the west to keep him in power coz he's been their puppet and now feels abandoned after fighting a proxy war between the west and Russia in Eastern Ukraine since 2014.
And the media does the bidding of its owners and those who buy ads. There's no free media jn the us
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona…
Skibum609 wins this round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3IGwmJM…
SJG
"Those assholes won't pull the trigger on nukes."
I don't think that's necessarily true. Because I think it's possible that Putin can talk himself into believing that Western nuclear powers would never counterattack a nuclear strike with our own nukes. And I also don't believe *that's* true, but Putin could believe it.
Ultimately, I think that two nuclear superpowers in direct combat should be the absolute last scenario we run to the final move.
The irony is that now they make us weaker, because we're afraid to use them. Putin doesn't want Moscow and Saint Petersburg blown up any more than we do NYC or LA.
Not claiming to know the answer, but I feel like we shouldn't be so afraid to correct a wrong that will lead to big problems for us in the future.
I don't believe that Putin wants Moscow or St. Petersburg nuked. But I do think it's possible for Putin to contort reality to the point that he's convinced that he could launch a nuke and Western powers would not respond in kind. And, from my relatively safe position as an armchair national security speculator, I still don't think we should put any of that to a test.
I'd be okay with everyone being afraid to use their nukes. It's certainly better than if the opposite were true.