What's wrong with the upsell attempt?

“I'm curious what you all do (or did) for a living where an upsell is/was not part of your / your company's sales pitch. Or do you take the same offense to an upsell attempt in literally every other consumer situation on a daily basis?”

My thoughts exactly. PLs are such crybabies about strippers doing stuff that literally every single other business does. And since many of us on tuscl are in business, I have to assume that most of us do it as well.

Jim Beam is an upsell? Back in my day that was one of the worse whiskeys and least expensive.

Meat72: that was part of the joke. Jim Beam sucks. It's cheap. BUT... it's not Bob's Bourbon in a plastic bottle.



(Whether Bob's Bourbon in a plastic bottle actually exists is anyone's guess)

When I read multiple reviews in the row of certain regions on this site, it seems like some areas have a higher concentration of grumps than others. Tuscl reviewers from both the Seattle and Phoenix region seem more prone to grumps on average. And the reviewer in question seems to hang out both places. Double whammy 🤭

But I sat right here and told you I didn’t want no TruCoat!

Btw my previous comment was NOT directed at ElDuderino_AZ nor drewcareypnw. Just wanted to say that. Sorry Meat72, I’m including you in the grump category. But somehow I get the feeling you would be more irritated if you weren’t in there lol

So apparently both too little and too much sun makes people grumpy.

Awww that was nice, but I am most definitely grumpy... I'm the under 41 world champion of complainers. I even got a plaque to commemorate the feat from the World Complaining League.

Fuckers couldn't even give me a trophy, though. Cheap assholes.

Coz they're cheap....


That's why I support paying before. Girls don't get fucked over like that

As far as the area goes, I'd first chalk up Phoenix to the old folks here, so many retirees. But then again that seems to be the predominant demographic on this site, regardless of location. So perhaps maybe it's just a few specific individuals, those who are not necessarily a "stripper friend".


(I see what I did there!)

So we all know that a grumpy entitled woman is a Karen, but we can't seem to agree when it's a guy. Kevin, Todd, Chad, which? And everyone knows a white chick who sucks a lot of dick is a Becky, but what's a white guy who munches a lot of carpet? Maybe reverse gender discrimination truly is a thing.

@heaving that's not upselling that's panhandling, a tip is supposed to be earned and generally is paid if you've received excellent service, I don't agree to tip in advance, and she doesn't get to determine the amount of her tip, that's my call to make, sounds to me like you're being intimidated by a girl in her underwear.

As someone who buys a shit ton of floor dances and VIP dances in the Phoenix area, allow me to respectfully disagree with the OP. Nothing ruins a lap dance faster for me than constant attempts to get me to VIP.

If a dancer has the body I'm looking for, all I need from her is a "wanna dance?" and we're off to the races. No need to sit with me for 15-20 minutes and chit chat. I don't mind if she asks, "Here or VIP?" and when I say here, she then just nods and gets to work. Depending on your demonstrated skill set while getting a regular dance will determine if we upgrade to VIP.

I never, ever ask a dancer what she does differntly in VIP. I'm happy to find out, and I've been both pleasantly surprised as well as mildly disappointed over the years wrt mileage given. But if there is one absolute fucking certainty, it is this: Every dancer who asks, asks, asks for VIP also has a set menu pricing in VIP which she won't reveal until you're pot committed, and it is ALWAYS far higher than local industry standard. This is *never* not true. it's along the same lines as a dancer who uses the term "naughty" to describe her VIP dances. In dancer vocab, "naughty" actually means "not naughty in slightest bit" and if you ever hear that term, move that dancer along as quickly and politely as possible.

A good example are the Cubans at Hi-Liter. Aside from Shanti, the tiny fitness dancer who kicks ass in VIP, all the rest of bunch basically ignore me when I come in. Why? Because each of the ones whom I have danced with, ALWAYS ask for VIP within 30 seconds of the first song and don't ever stop. It's similar to why I don't go to TJ anymore. 30 seconds after you start fucking, it's nothing but "Did you come yet, papi? When are you going to come?"

I always tip good dances; I want dancers I like to remember me and seek me out when I come into one of my clubs and they have a choice of which customer to choose to ask. The dancer who allows a set of laps to proceed organically and without obnoxious upselling will get a lot more of my money every time.

Heaving unless she'd refuse a $20 dance that was an honest hustle.

@chili --- I get what you're saying about the constant attempts. That gets annoying. Though I don't do a lot of floor stuff, it usually happens with someone new to Xplicit out here on the west side, trying to get me to go upstairs. But my original point was the original attempt. The review I read that aggravated me had a comment where after a while the girl asked one time. And because of that, he refused to tip her. I thought that was bullshit. Agree with you, though, if it's repetitive.

An upsell doesn't always happen. I just went to a bakery. When I bought some doughnuts they didn't ask if I wanted some cupcakes too. That would have slightly annoyed me if they had. That being said, it really depends on a couple of things whether an attempt at an upsell is annoying to me.

If I'm doing multiple dances with a girl and she makes a brief attempt to sell me a VIP I don't mind. If it is the very first lap dance and she asks me if I want to do a VIP, talks about how much I would enjoy it, and then wants to know why I don't want to do one when I politely say "no, thank you" then it is annoying. This does happen to me. I paid for the lap dance and I want to enjoy it.

I understand the girls are trying to make more money but they need to understand they need to provide an enjoyable experience for me too. There are lots of girls at the club and I'm usually looking for regulars. If I have one girl who is trying to talk me into a VIP or doing more lap dances, asking for tips or asking for more money to do something all the other girls will do as part of a regular lap dance, I won't pick that girl as a regular. I'll pick the low pressure girl instead. I'll often end up spending thousands of dollars on a regular so it is a little short sighted for a stripper to get too aggressive trying to get money out of me. The low pressure girls are smarter because they are playing a long game and trying to establish a good relationship with the customers. They know in a city like Indianapolis, where I live, that the clubs don't have a lot of tourists and they will see the same local guys over and over again. They are more concerned about the guy picking them again the next time he comes in instead of trying to squeeze the most money out of him on the first visit.

Chili Palmer for the victory.

@ElDuderino_AZ

To answer your question:

Q: What's wrong with the upsell attempt?

A: Nothing wrong with upselling, as long as it is a honest and ethical attempt to give more and get more; a fair deal...

But in many TUSCL members experience, upselling often times can be scammy and dishonest, unethical.

It is how some dancers go about it that sometimes makes it sound to god to be true...and can be annoying and kill the mood.

The adult industry business, like the used car businesses and many other businesses have a bad reputation regarding upselling as being a predatory behavior.

Wikipedia says about the ethics of upselling:

“When upselling for higher cost items or add ons to customers for goods and services it is advised not to push the sale as it may become unethical.

There have been cases where pushing a sale onto customers have caused legal problems, as some retailers may use confusing terms or say half-truths to sell products while the customer is unaware of this happening.

In New Zealand, the "Consumer Guarantees Act of 1993" states that if the customer is unhappy with the goods or services rendered, they are entitled to a refund, or the business in question must compensate them for their troubles.”

There is no “Consumer Guarantees” in the strip club of the USA...

In any case it is buyer beware, listen to your gut feeling/spider 🕷 sense and hope for the best and be ready for the worst.

“The old adage, 'If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is' isn't always correct. In fact, the suspicion, cynicism, and doubt that are inherent in this belief can and does keep people from taking advantage of excellent opportunities.”

~ Richard Carlson,

I think Chili Palmer said it very well.

Honestly if you’re complaint about the clubs and you live in the Phoenix metro area then you have some issues. You don’t know how well you’ve got it when it comes to the strip club scene there. There are several other cities that fall into this category too.

At least half of the country doesn’t have a good strip club for miles. I have to drive well over 200 miles before I can be at a club I would consider “good.”

There’s a lot of projecting, lol
Especially since it was said that the dancer had great technique and she upselled after 8th. Let’s stay on the situation please.
Yep grumpy old men.

What the OP describes shouldn't give anyone the grumbles. I have no problem with dancers trying to get me to spend more. I mean, it's their job. To be honest, I've let dancers upsell me before and it turned out great.

But, dancers should know a little something about timing. Don't start upselling 5 seconds into the first lapdance. And, once a customer makes it very clear that they're only going to spend [X] amount of money, let it go. Guys go to strip clubs for sexy fun and a bit of fantasy. If you're pushing VIP or whatever relentlessly, then they don't get either of those things and are more unlikely to spend more money. If you give a great dance and *then* make a sales pitch, that will work far better than nagging.

A lot of guys are in the club specifically to get away from nagging...

Part 2!

Yes, I am going to be grumpy about calling out the grumpiness

https://tuscl.net/review.php?id=380880

I guess for me it depends on when and how much she tried to upsell. The OP wasn't very clear about that. If she was on me for several songs and then made a single pitch, I have no problem with that. She no doubt hopes to convert a hard on into a bigger payday. Indeed sometimes that has worked out very well for me. But when a girl tries to sell me an expensive upgrade right at the outset and/or continues to pitch it over and over, the event is ruined for me.

I met a girl at 2001 Odyssey who sold me LDs and immediately started into the VIP pitch, then continued to pitch it over and over during her dances. That really sucked for me as it distracted me from what I was already paying for.

Conversely most of the better upsell opportunities were with girls who were very clearly offering to deal with what her efforts had started. Love those moments as long as the upgrade cost isn't over the top.

Hahahahaha oh holy shit. Calling out a stripper and thinking it's incognito, only to have her jump in defense herself, even using the phrase "business acumen". That's gold. Truly a stripper friend...

Based on the review I don't think the dancer did anything wrong. Hell, a lot of strippers would have made at least a cursory vip pitch before getting that many dances into the set. Obviously if you are enjoying her dances enough to string together multiple song's she should take it as a sign you might go for the vip upgrade.

As long as it isn't an immediate or constant upsell I am fine with it. On my last visit I had a dancer blow her chances at making a lot of money by trying to upsell right off the bat. Based on her looks and what I saw of her on stage I was planning on getting 3 or 4 dances to try her out and then if the dances were good I would have brought up vip to start negotiating. Instead, She started pushing for vip as we were walking over to the lapdance area.

Ok, after seeing the review, I have more mixed feelings about what she did. Yes she waited until the 6th song, but she also spun a BS story to try to get him into VIP. Honestly I might have been a bit peeved too if a girl tried this particular lie on me. Now after "making him happy" by grinding on him for over 20 minutes until he came in his own pants, she certainly deserved better than $80, but I do see why he was a little put off.

Here is a snippet:

*********************************************
There was only one little weird hiccup. After 6 dances she stopped and said she thought she needed to stop or "she would get in trouble for doing so many floor dances". I was like WFT, why would you get in trouble? She goes "I don't know". Seems like a silly ploy to get me to the VIP. I told her "fine, let's stop if you want. I was going to buy a few more dances from you, but we can certainly stop". She did a 180 and all of sudden was "oh no, we can totally continue dancing here". Spoiled the mood a bit, but she continued trying just as hard and I was happy at the end. I'd probably get dances from her again regardless of that weird VIP upsell.
*********************************************

Yeah the story she told doesn't bother me in the least. Maybe that's just different for me. I generally have zero interest in floor dances. It creeps me out when there's some hot girl on top of me, and people around are watching...fat guy in the corner probably stroking one out under the table. I will do it every now and then at Hi-Liter if I've just arrived and haven't had a chance to drink yet, but other than that, they either ask if I want to go back to VIP, or they ask me where I want to do it...and say back there.

But the little story about getting in trouble for doing so many out there is either legit (ownership wants more VIPs for a bigger cut), or just a much much much much much much much more courteous and customer-friendly way of saying, "dude you just came all over yourself, I can feel it through your pants. This is disgusting and I don't want to do this anymore for ten fucking dollars that the club will take half of."

I do the VIP for mainly only one reason.
Anything less than that is kinda disappointing.

@El, I'm with you about not handling my shit out in the open. But that doesn't make her any less full of shit. If she wanted more money for services rendered she should have just been upfront.

Not that I've been in hundreds of clubs, but the pattern I've seen is that, if the dances are $30+ rather than $20 or less, the club is taking $10 from each dance. Because of the basics of supply and demand, dancers sell fewer dances at $30 than $20. So they have to scrounge harder for tips to make the same money per shift as they would in a club with $20 dances where there's no cut to the club.

All I'm hearing is cheap fucks mad that she's doing her job.

@ heaving I am not ever looking getting anything the cheapest, my time is worth a lot more than that, so the idea I’d waste time bargain hunting is silly, if she isn’t straight with me from the start I’m not going to be very interested and as a custy I’m more valuable than many, so I’m not interested in panhandlers, looking for tips for doing nothing is not productive and I’m never angry, but I insist that any girl that wants to make money do her job honestly and we’ll. BTW asking for tips for nothing is a sign of panhandling trying to get away with over charging no matter how it’s worded is borderline ROB so I’m being kind when I call her a panhandler.

^
@twentyfive

You wrote and I quote:

“as a custy I’m more valuable than many”

Facts, Pics and Vids or it isn’t so.

:D

“I am ... humble enough to know I'm not better than anyone else, but wise enough to know I am different."

~ unknown

I have no problem with it as long as it’s not overly pushy.. I do not like repeated solicitations in the middle of a dance or other activities. Between dances is absolutely fine. Now if it’s a tip for extras type of situation I negotiate that on the front end but that’s not what this post is describing. I make it a policy not to haggle while aroused. I’ve told girls I don’t like discussing money during dances.

There’s the upsell and then there’s badgering.

I think too-many PLs see the SC-world thru the myopic-lens of their local/home club or the clubs in their city – as we all know different clubs, and different cities/regions, can have different M.O.s; i.e. the hustle-factor in Minneapolis is gonna be very different than the hustle-factor in Las Vegas; etc – too many PLs have been hitting the same homeclub for years and subconsciously start seeing the SC-world mainly/just thru that lens.

There are clubs, and dancers, where the upsell is NONSTOP and thus very annoying and a problem – there are clubs where from the moment the dance starts until the dance ends is a constant upsell to where you can’t enjoy your dance nor does the dancer focus on giving you a good dance and is just focusing on the upsell FOR THE WHOLE SONG – there are clubs that the dancer’s only desire to give a dance is so she can upsell you; i.e. she’ll spend the whole song badgering-you about VIP and if she can’t get you to agree to VIP she may even stop at the end of the song, get dressed and leave, even if you didn’t say you didn’t want any more dances – there are clubs where dancers will straight-up tell you they don’t do dances and only do VIP.

The clubs I’ve seen the hardest upsell has usually been clubs where VIP means a few hundred dollars are involved and these are often extras-clubs – here in SoFlo there are clubs where it’s not even worth getting dances b/c the dancers are just interested in expensive VIP/extras and they only give dances to upsell you throughout the dance and thus the dances are often shitty (e.g. Diamond Dolls, Tootsies, etc); even though the dances are $25 a piece.

If one does not club in these types of clubs w/ expensive ($100s) VIP options, more likely one has not experienced the hardsell one can experience in clubs like I described; and also different regions/cities have different M.O.s – just b/c your homeclub or regional clubs don’t have that M.O., doesn’t mean it’s like that everywhere.

I’ve read of guys complaining of the hardsell/upsell in the past and it’s usually justified given the types of clubs I described – I think most complaints are justified – PLs can be a finicky bunch so I assume there are some that get miffed at anything including the girl just asking if he’d like to upgrade – I’m with most in that there’s no reason to be upset if a dancer brings it up b/c it’s her job to make the most-$$$ she can, and the PL may also be interested – so yeah no reason to be upset if the dancer merely asks; but it is a problem w/ dancers that don’t stop insisting and focus more on the upsell than how they are treating you, and this is IMO where most PLs have a problem w/ it.

I think @ElDuderino_AZ is probably right with this scenario after reading that little bit of info of the story. I would also like to add she may have been worried about management or bouncers nagging them if the guy seemed to be enjoying himself. (Not sure a better way to word that) Or she may simply wanted more privacy knowing he was nearing a happy ending or already had.

I also agree a dancer shouldn't continuously nag about getting a VIP or any other service with a customer when they have been declined. ( They should also be upfront on what the customer is getting out of the service before the customer pays)

All that said right now a lot of people simply are cheap. Holidays coming up people tend to be more tight with money. I also feel COVID hasn't helped any. Prices have gone up for a lot of things and so I feel people just cant afford to spend what they used to so leisurely.

The club I am currently at I've seen a major decline in. (and an increase of girls working. Which is great for customers but not so much for a dancer trying to pay bills.) This place and well any club I have ever worked I usually get no less then 20$ on stage even if its really dead. But a few weeks back I walked off with only 9$ and the place had more customers then girls in it. (about 8 girls at the moment and roughly 20 customers) I received the vast majority of that from a single person. And it wasn't just me that wasn't getting tipped either. That was the higher end of what girls were walking off the stage with for several hours that night. We didn't get any customers there that would actually tip till almost midnight. (though that night even then the tipping was still horrid compared to normal.)

Actually that night I ended up sitting/laying on the stage for half of my last set and just waved my arms as my "dance." I wasn't in the best mood that night and a fight was waiting to break out possibly beside the stage so no one was watching me and I wasn't dancing for nothing. The staff got a good laugh out of my "dance" and helped lighten the mood some for everyone else cause I wasn't the only one feeling less than satisfied with how the night was going.

Even good tippers who are regulars the last few visit they had tipped less then normal. So this seems to be an unfortunate trend. I hope come January we will see things start to turn around.

$10 dances and $25 upsell? Holy crap, where was this Ar Kansas (not a typo)? I'd have done it just because it's so cheap

If this is all based on that 1 Seattle visit idk the issue. It doesn't sound like she was being annoying.


I think annoying is more like when I read a review of a guy doing 3+ dances and all 3+ songs the girl is constantly upselling the dude on a private room experience. That is just ridiculous, and I'd be annoyed too.

I guess maybe I annoy some of the cheapasses with my upsell for longer dance sessions. But on the other hand I rarely ask for tips. These days I try to avoid being touched as much as possible and I'm just grateful I still get the standard rates or more while every single girl seems to either cut deals or offer a lot more for the same prices.

I'll echo what someone else said that it seems people might be tighter with their money during bidenflation

@blahblahblah23 don't want to be touched? Don't come to NYC then. You'll have to get vaccinated to work and then there is no excuse not to be touched. Because that booty and ya beauty too fantastic not to

I think it's sick to fondle girls during dances and complain about them wanting more money for it. Then bragging how you got a bargain....

As a guy who focuses on table dances and lap dances and not VIP, I'll agree with the OP. The dancer might have even been trying to do the customer a favor. If you are spending nearly $100 on table dances with the same girl, then it might make more financial sense to have gone VIP (depending on club and pricing). Alternatively, maybe the girl felt she was losing out on VIP/lap dance opportunities with other customers as this guy was locking her down with $10 dances. I will agree with CP, that if the dancer was just asking for VIP over and over and over it would get annoying. My experience has been that the table or lap dances become increasingly less aggressive and mutual 2-way decreases as she asks for VIP and you decline. That is when you stop buying dances. However, if she were only asking a couple of times and you were still enjoying the dances, then there would be nothing to complain about.

Front Room Feel Up and Makeout Session solves all problems. When it is time for your own pants to come down, then you invite her into the backroom, and you've probably already got her lined up for walking out the door with you after.

SJG

Bill Evans '64 - '75
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uco5FNbj…