Hookers. From customer to lover?

Married. Never even thought about it once.

Why would you?? That’s just more delusional thinking On par with the OP.

Possible? Yes. Advisable? No.

It was good though. Until some fuckhead drunk driver killed her.

@icee here's an example of how it can be an utter failure:

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7636…

In this example, the poor PL thought he had a "relationship" with a coke junkie stripper whore. The poor PL thought he had something to offer her but in the end all it was was the drugs and money. The poor PL even had an engagement ring for her. But in the end, as you even state, it was just paying for a GFE. And the poor PL just about killed himself over it.

You should learn from "his" example.

🤭🤡😂🤣

H.L. Mencken was an early twentieth century Baltimore journalist. Later on when he was writing about those days he talked about how a number of successful Baltimore politicians and businessmen frequented the more high class houses of prostitution in Baltimore. Some of them ended up marrying the women they met there. Many of these women had come from poorer backgrounds and this was a way for them to move up in the world by meeting successful men and then using their looks, charm, and sexual skills to get these men to marry them.

Here's my surefire formula:

- Act confident

- Spend money -- not on her sexual services though

- Never be a trick!

- Never approach her like a customer. Tell her you like her ambition, or the way her eyes light up ❤️

- Get her hooked on drugs

- Control every aspect of her life

- Isolate her from her friends and family

- Treat her like a queen and then disappear for a while. Let her sweat that out lulz

- Don't be afraid to discipline her! 🤜

I could go on, but frankly, you guys should be paying me for this shit lulz

Lol Subra

@ceoaticeysangelsllc

I will play along and answer your questions and comment in your discussion.

Q: Hookers. From customer to lover?

A: In this life anything is possible, we all have known about this from some TUSCL members and the hobbyists in the Internet, news, movies, books etc etc

Q: What are your thoughts?

A: I think that everyone in this Capitalist society is aware that “Nothing is free.” Everything has to be paid for. For every object/experience/material or un-material “thing”, payment in some form must be given...

You should know that in life there is a price to be paid for achieving anything of significance (Or insignificance to others).

Of course the price is different for each individual situation. Some people get bargains, some overpaid, in any case the price is paid...

All delusions. No matter how much I try to convert customers into loving hookah, they just don’t want to do it. It’s all “smoking is unhealthy” or “flavored tobacco is for douches!” All they want to do is give me money for lapdances 🥸

'spice, you are right. You and I just can't work out because of the hookah. Sorry.

Smoking apple hookah with nicespice is a chump's game.

I think once a guy is a customer. He's pretty much stuck in that category. Unless she has something more to gain from him then she has no incentive to give the money up.

A hooker is in survival mode when she's working. She doesn't even consider it sex.

I've seen hookers settle with tricks once they want to stop hoeing. But that's it.

^^^ yeah icee just like that link I posted. The PL was stuck just being a source of coke and money for the junkie stripper whore. She had no incentive to give all that up. And when the PL tried to control and limit her coke she dumped his trick ass for a more reliable source.

That link is a textbook example of exactly what you're preaching my niggette. 🤭🤡😂🤣

"Last night I came close to killing myself.

My 5 year relationship ended because she thought I was too controlling ... Making sure she only took the bare minimum of coke. Id show her the money we'd save and would buy her gifts. Dedigner bags. Shoes. Expensive makeup to try to show her this is what she can have instead of snorting it up her nose.

...

...She started fucking other guys for coke. And she ended up with a broke ass bum wannabe pimp junkie.

She called me controlling and obsessive...

...he sells her pussy so they can get high.

The pain got to be too much for me when I saw them together. ...

...I love her so much.

I couldn't handle it anymore so I planned on getting fucked up at the club she used to work at and then overdosing on heroin...."

^^^ @icee this is what happens to a customer of a coke junkie stripper whore. You should learn from it! 🤭🤡😂🤣

Even when I was young enough to be a potential catch for some dancer, I never really considered it except for once early on. As I've discussed on here a few times, I had a brief romance with a dancer but had to end it because, very predictably, it didn't take long before I couldn't stand what she did for work. Know thyself. From then on it never again crossed my mind.

But as the years have rolled on and I've seen several generations of dancers cycle through the clubs, I've learned another lesson as well: You can't turn an alley cat into a house cat. Now I'm not talking about the tourist dancers who shows a little titty every so often in one club or another as they go through college and/or prepare to publish articles/blogs/books talking about the lifestyle that they really didn't live. I'm talking about those girls who dance for a living because they don't want to punch a clock for a living, which is just about any girl who has been dancing F/T for a year or more.

I've seen countless dancers burn out, grab on to some guy as a safety net, eventually grow to resent that guy and then end up back on the pole. In many cases there are kids involved. The same thing that made it difficult for a girl to work a steady job for a long time also makes living a stable life to be too confining for her. Now if you are a guy who doesn't mind living on the fringe then maybe you can make it work, but for a 9 to 5 ham 'n egger with a day job and bills to pay, dating a (former) career stripper is a breakup waiting to happen.

Anyway just my two cents fwiw.

Not with a dancer but yes with 1-2 P4P ladies. I am still seeing 1 but until she tells me to keep my money I know it really isn’t going anywhere serious.

Rick. That's pretty much what I've seen happen with hoes and tricks. Hoes are damaged and the lifestyle isn't compatible with squares. This is one area where I completely side with the tricks.

The only way to have a normal relationship with them is toq never trick. And even then you need a really thick skin.

^ Icey, your obsession with labels is making you miss the broader point. My comments apply to any F/T dancer, regardless of what you think she does or doesn't do to earn her nut. Is she a "hoe" if she makes him cum in his own pants or only does HJs? Also the longer she dances, the more her boundaries are likely to stretch - it just means that she has to hide a little more from the dupe she's with. So spare us the fake ass pimp lingo.

This is the pretty woman type of scenario. It’s possible - but it’s very improbable.

As you mention, there are aspects of your life that appeal to the prostitute. But, your money is likely more appealing to her.

In my view, this is something that might seem great, based on a perceived connection. But, it’s highly unlikely to actually work out.

There is a difference between a dancer and a hooker.

The longer she dances the older she gets the more competition she has so old dancers are more likely to turn tricks to stay relevant when they have no other option.

Dancers start hoeing because they have a pimp or they're desperate. A lot of naive girls get recruited by girls pretending to be their friends. Convincing them of the lifestyle they can have...then introducing them to their pimp...

But once a guy is a customer thats pretty much where he stays

Cashman. I agree. Once money is exchanged for her services her only goal is to keep it coming. You can have a pleasant business relationship or you can buy a gfe. But her goal is always more money. She can tell a guy she loves him then be texting her pimp how much she got out of him.

Are you autistic Icey? Serious question because you seem to struggle with the more nuanced realities of the profession.

For starters ou didn't answer my questions. Is she a "hoe" if she makes him cum in his own pants or only does HJs? Where's the line before she moved in your mind from "dancer" to "hoe?" Btw you actually sounds like a slightly retarded and bitter ex-dancer when you post like that. Just sayin.

The reality is much more nuanced. There are girls who dip their toes in p4p and then pull back because the money isn't worth it to them. There are some that do so only selectively when the money and conditions are right. There are even some girls that only do it when they have extraordinary cash needs or are saving for something. And yes, there are of course those girls who do it as a matter of course, but that is certainly not all of them.

Sounds like “pretty woman” so maybe check in with Richard Gere to see how that worked out in the long run.

LMAO @rickdugan of course icee is autistic!

All this thread is about is icee's way of preaching that a trick should never expect to be anything more. She's literally repeated the same thing with every post. It's really the only intent of her posting. To repeat the echo in her own head. A "do loop" is in her head.

Observe...

Icee post #1: "...But in each scenario your relationship isn't contingent on you giving her money. If it is then it's just p4p. Paying for a gfe."

Icee post #2: "I think once a guy is a customer. He's pretty much stuck in that category. Unless she has something more to gain from him then she has no incentive to give the money up..."

Icee post #3: "...The only way to have a normal relationship with them is toq never trick..."

Icee post #4: "...But once a guy is a customer thats pretty much where he stays"

Icee post #5: "...Once money is exchanged for her services her only goal is to keep it coming. You can have a pleasant business relationship or you can buy a gfe. But her goal is always more money..."

^^^she can't help but make the same point over and over again. It's a compulsion. 🤣🤣🤣

One of things that truly allowed me to enjoy strip clubs for what they are was when, after a brief romance with a dancer, it became crystal clear to me that I was not emotionally suited to dating a dancer.

Another educational event was watching an older friend, in the midst of a divorce, who got sucked into a romance hustle. This girl was old school with incredible skillz who was a master not only of milking him while making it seem like it was all his idea, but artfully disengaging when the ride was over (when he was filing for bankruptcy) so that it did not blow back on her. It was truly masterful - the girl should teach a clinic.

These two educational episodes truly freed me to enjoy these girls in a healthy way, without any confusion about expectations. When I was still young and a girl intimated that she would like me to take her on a date, I always had my previous stripper dating experience (knowing myself enough to know that I'd be too jealous) to explain my reluctance to do anything beyond p4p. This shielded me from both romance hustles and the off chance that a girl was serious. Then of course as I aged and had a family I no longer needed that story, lol.

Net-net a strip club is never a place for a guy with a normal value system to look for romance. The only thing worse than the risk that she's running a romance hustle is the risk that you'll actually catch her and get sucked into her dysfunction. Either way no bueno.

That's why I don't understand icee's obsession over "dating" a stripper whore. Even if you aren't "paying", you know she's going to be out fucking multiple dudes regularly. That's gotta take a psychological toll. Even though you're the supposed "boyfriend", when she's home with you, you still gotta worry about kissing a mouth that's sucked other dick or getting sloppy seconds in her pussy.

At that point you might as well just be the "trick" and pay but also avoid getting wrapped up in the drama and emotional hassle.

Or, as icee said, you gotta have that tough skin and just put up with the fact that your stripper "girlfriend" is also a whore. You've gotta be OK with sloppy seconds on the regular. You feeling me with this one, my niggette icee? 😂😂😂

Ask a dancer if she would ever date a customer, she'll get a look on her face like she smells a nasty fart.

Talk to a dancer long enough, most will admit to dating a customer.

^ Of course. Not every customer is an ugly 60 year old fat slob. Attractive younger guys visit clubs too and when you have alcohol flowing in a free spirited environment, connection will sometimes happen. In my case, I was a young guy sitting at the bar at the club and a girl started chatting me up. There was only 5 years between us. Two hours and several drinks later we were still talking and there was obviously some chemistry.

What was funny in hindsight was how she reacted when I finally asked her out on a date, just a young man asking a girl to see him again. She stared at me for a moment, then a serious look came over her face and she said: "If I say yes I don't ever want to see you in here again." I quickly agreed, after which she wouldn't accept another nickel from me for the rest of the night except for another drink - even saying "this isn't really what you want to do, is it?" when I attempted to tip her during her next stage set.

She was something, but it was also a different time. The girls working in the industry back then were more mature and overall emotionally tougher than they are today. But even still soon I couldn't handle her job, yet I also couldn't ask her to quit. She was the sole support for her young son and the relationship was way new for me to invite her to move in, especially with the kid to consider. All I could do, before I started making her and myself miserable, was cut her loose.

Rick I'm talking about hoes not dancers. And it isn't nuanced. It's not about defining what sex is and how a trick gets off. You're delusional trying to justify to yourself that the hookers you pay aren't hookers. The fact that hookers avoid you has to do with you. They'll fuck anyone for money.


As far as dancers go yeah they're easy to date. But it's the same. Once you're a customer you're a legit mark for her.

Icee post #6: "...Once you're a customer you're a legit mark for her."

^^^ icee is clearly obsessed and compelled to keep making this point, with each and every post. Even though she's made it 5x before. 🤭🤡😂🤣

===> "Rick I'm talking about hoes not dancers. And it isn't nuanced. It's not about defining what sex is and how a trick gets off."

Ok, if it's not nuanced then stop dodging the questions:

Is she a "hoe" if she makes him cum in his own pants or only does HJs? Where's the line before she moved in your mind from "dancer" to "hoe?" Is his getting off enough by itself, even if he's one of the premature ejaculators who can cum in their own pants?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Youre playing with semantics ie what defines sex. A hoe does what a trick pays her to. Sometimes it's not even sexual but sex is for sale.

Icee post #7: "...A hoe does what a trick pays her to. Sometimes it's not even sexual but sex is for sale."

^^^ icee is clearly obsessed and compelled to keep making this point, with each and every post. Even though she's made it 6x before. 🤭🤡😂🤣

(LMFAO now even paying for a lapdance is prostitution.)

Most women who do sex work want long term relationships.

SJG

https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=4946

But not with customers

Icee post #8: "But not with customers"

^^^ icee is clearly obsessed and compelled to keep making this point, with each and every post. Even though she's made it 7x before. 🤭🤡😂🤣

A man who approaches and on duty sex worker is not necessarily someone she will see as a customer. The fee he gives her can just be a show of good will, like buying her a drink or taking her on a first date. It does not need to drive the interaction.

SJG

It drives the interaction if he's paying for sex. That sets the dynamic for any future interactions

Let's see how many threads that icee has created recently with respect to this topic...

#1 - Seeing hoes who have pimps...

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7746…

#2 - If you date one girl in a club. They all want to date you

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7702…

#3 - The stripper hoe whisperer: official thread

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7701…

#4 - Pimping advice

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7693…

#5 - Dating "civvies" vs strippers....

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7644…

#6 - Advice on dating strippers

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7455…

#7 - Relationship advice

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7455…

#8 - Ask the stripper hoe whisperer anything about stripper hoes

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7455…

I've hung out with stripper OTC that were both paid and non-paid. To preface this, I am just an average dude that enjoys life with or without someone to share it with as there is always a way to have fun if you approach things in the proper mindset.

The topic was about Ho's without paying and I dated a woman that I met as an escort initially for a couple of years. I had no fantasy of anything else than enjoying the ride while it was happening and love was not an issue for me. I even hung out with her and a client or two during holidays or parties.

I didn't over-analyze it like what I read about here. It was just fun. We went on some vacations together and I had some of the most memorable fun times in my life. But, I never looked at it as more than someone who I had fun with. It's probably been over 15 years since I met her and, while we don't date, we are still friends and talk several times a year.

People are people and, as long as you are open to the situation, stuff just happens. As long as you don't overreact or overanalyze, you can have fun.

I think if you are going to have a true civie relationship with a stripper whore then you should have most of it completely outside of the club. And you're not spending on all the things related to her stripping. For example if you are providing and controlling her drugs, paying her tip outs, and even getting the occasional dance or VIP, then you are, for all intents and purposes, no different than a customer or trick or sugar daddy. It's all the same at that point. If she would have bought drugs herself or paid her own tip outs with money she made from working, then it's the same as being a customer that pays her.

I'm not saying that their aren't problems. Some of the women who do sex work are kinda screwy. But overall, they are just like other women.

SJG

Yeah dating them is normal. It doesn't revolve around her work.

Well no, it quickly moves completely away from her work. Get her away from that ASAP.

SJG

"Yeah dating them is normal. It doesn't revolve around her work."

^^^ @icee yes of course, but if you are controlling her drug use and taking money from her working, then for sure you're not "dating" her. And it's still stuff revolving around her work even though it's not at the club per se.

I have never talked about supplying women or anyone else with drugs, and I have never talked about getting money from anyone doing sex work. I do not do this and I will not do this.

SJG

https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=6551

https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=6552

^^^ FYI dumbass my post was directed at @icee who has advocated and has posted specific stories of controlling the drug use and taking money from junkie stripper whores. That's not "dating" them.

ES JAY GEE