How to ruin America
TheeOSU
FUCK IT!
An opinion piece I just ran in to and where else to repost it besides a strip club website! *-*
I recently had to cancel a long-planned trip to South America, either because the countries I wanted to enter are closed or required up to a two-week quarantine in a hotel. It doesn't matter that I have been vaccinated and have repeatedly tested negative for COVID-19.
Several countries in Europe I would like to visit are also closed. Ireland imposes a 2,000 Euro fine for anyone leaving the country.
All of this while the United States is experiencing a flood of people crossing the southern border, including unaccompanied minors. They are overwhelming Border Patrol agents who are releasing many of them into the country with little chance they will show up for court dates, or temporarily detaining them in "rapid-processing hubs," with a goal, writes the Washington Post, "of releasing them into the United States within 72 hours."
Politicians have flipped positions on illegal immigration but are never held accountable.
Here are three from 2014. First, Barack Obama: "Do not send your children to the borders. If they do make it, they'll get sent back. More importantly, they may not make it."
Hillary Clinton: "We have to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay. ... So, we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws or will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey."
Joe Biden: "Those who are pondering risking their lives to reach the United States should be aware of what awaits them. It will not be open arms. It will not be come on — it will be, we're going to hold hearings with our judges consistent with international law and American law, and we're going to send the vast majority of you back."
What's changed?
In a statement about the growing number coming to America, especially from Honduras and El Salvador, former President Trump said: "The spiraling tsunami at the border is overwhelming local communities, depleting budgets, crowding hospitals, and taking jobs from legal American workers. When I left office, we had achieved the most secure border in our country's history. Under Biden, it will soon be worse, more dangerous, and more out of control than ever before. He has violated his oath of office to uphold our Constitution and enforce our laws."
He is right, but the Biden administration seems unwilling to do anything about it. No nation can survive if it fails to control its borders. Our nation is unique in the world. We are a nation of laws. We are a nation with a rich history.
If we abandon what our forebears fought to preserve, what will be left but a shell of a once-great country?
Too many schools remain closed, but the border is increasingly open. Does this make sense?
Some House Democrats are supporting bills that would grant legal status to millions of immigrants who broke our laws to get here. Democrats will make sure they quickly become voters to solidify their hold on power. As The Washington Post reported last Saturday, "The measures (the Biden administration) have taken are aimed (at) accommodating the increase, not to contain it or change the upward trend."
We had better decide what kind of country we want to be, or we will become a country others want us to be. That was clearly not the vision of our Founders, of the many presidents who succeeded them, or even recent Democratic presidents and presidential candidates.
Until now.
I recently had to cancel a long-planned trip to South America, either because the countries I wanted to enter are closed or required up to a two-week quarantine in a hotel. It doesn't matter that I have been vaccinated and have repeatedly tested negative for COVID-19.
Several countries in Europe I would like to visit are also closed. Ireland imposes a 2,000 Euro fine for anyone leaving the country.
All of this while the United States is experiencing a flood of people crossing the southern border, including unaccompanied minors. They are overwhelming Border Patrol agents who are releasing many of them into the country with little chance they will show up for court dates, or temporarily detaining them in "rapid-processing hubs," with a goal, writes the Washington Post, "of releasing them into the United States within 72 hours."
Politicians have flipped positions on illegal immigration but are never held accountable.
Here are three from 2014. First, Barack Obama: "Do not send your children to the borders. If they do make it, they'll get sent back. More importantly, they may not make it."
Hillary Clinton: "We have to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay. ... So, we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws or will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey."
Joe Biden: "Those who are pondering risking their lives to reach the United States should be aware of what awaits them. It will not be open arms. It will not be come on — it will be, we're going to hold hearings with our judges consistent with international law and American law, and we're going to send the vast majority of you back."
What's changed?
In a statement about the growing number coming to America, especially from Honduras and El Salvador, former President Trump said: "The spiraling tsunami at the border is overwhelming local communities, depleting budgets, crowding hospitals, and taking jobs from legal American workers. When I left office, we had achieved the most secure border in our country's history. Under Biden, it will soon be worse, more dangerous, and more out of control than ever before. He has violated his oath of office to uphold our Constitution and enforce our laws."
He is right, but the Biden administration seems unwilling to do anything about it. No nation can survive if it fails to control its borders. Our nation is unique in the world. We are a nation of laws. We are a nation with a rich history.
If we abandon what our forebears fought to preserve, what will be left but a shell of a once-great country?
Too many schools remain closed, but the border is increasingly open. Does this make sense?
Some House Democrats are supporting bills that would grant legal status to millions of immigrants who broke our laws to get here. Democrats will make sure they quickly become voters to solidify their hold on power. As The Washington Post reported last Saturday, "The measures (the Biden administration) have taken are aimed (at) accommodating the increase, not to contain it or change the upward trend."
We had better decide what kind of country we want to be, or we will become a country others want us to be. That was clearly not the vision of our Founders, of the many presidents who succeeded them, or even recent Democratic presidents and presidential candidates.
Until now.
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53 comments
Founder could you move this for me? TIA
As many on here know, I am about as right wing as anyone on this board. But on this single issue I don't agree with Trump or some of the other right wing populists. Indeed I think the Bush brothers (George and Jeb) have this one right. We NEED more immigration. We are not making enough home grown kids here to support the Social Security and healthcare needs of our rapidly aging population. We also don't raise enough kids willing to work in fields, butchering plants, janitorial services, home healthcare, construction and a variety of other hard labor jobs.
Increased immigration solves these problems in myriad of ways, providing us with younger adults willing to work the harder manual labor jobs AND people who tend to reproduce at a higher rate than our native born population. Shit, I hope they legalize all 12 million illegals here now so that we can make them pay Social Securities taxes immediately.
The Biden immigration plan and path to citizenship is a multi (10?) year path where an immigrant would have to demonstrate that they were in school or worked, and also did not commit any crimes. I’m good with that. Indeed, I kinda wish it applied to people who were born here.
America was built by immigrants, legal immigrants! I'm not anti immigration myself, I'm against illegal immigrants breaking our laws to get in then many sapping resources from our system instead of contributing to the system.
Our immigration policies worked in the past, now they've been replaced by an open up our borders and let in any dreg that shows up policy.
Baloney. Every time I hear someone make this absurdly disingenuous argument I ask if he/she would be open to expanding immigration eligibility to allow more people to come in. Each and every time the person I asked this follow up question to either said no or dodged the question altogether, exposing the sophistry for what it was. The only reason why have so many illegals now in the first place is because we have made it nearly impossible for most immigrants to get in legally, especially Latin American immigrants.
And sap resources? Do immigrants not pay sales taxes? Do they not pay rent, which in turn is used to pay property taxes? Do they not buy goods and services that help to support local economies? Do they not provide a valuable and needed workforce for things that nobody else wants to do? That comment was as ignorant as the previous one was disingenuous. Also, unlike our native poor, they don't qualify for most social services, like rent assistance, food stamps, etc.
In 2017, the total cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was approximately $116 billion.
FAIR arrived at this number by subtracting the tax revenue paid by illegal aliens – about $19 billion – from the total economic impact of illegal migration, $134.9 billion.
In 2013, the estimated total cost of illegal migration was approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.
Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume.
A large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all.
Many illegal aliens actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs.
The Cost of Illegal Immigration to the United States
At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion. This is a disturbing and unsustainable trend. The sections below will break down and further explain these numbers at the federal, state, and local levels.
Federal
The Federal government spends a net amount of $45.8 billion on illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children. This amount includes expenditures for public education, medical care, justice enforcement initiatives, welfare programs and other miscellaneous costs. It also factors in the meager amount illegal aliens pay to the federal government in income, social security, Medicare and excise taxes.
FEDERAL SPENDING
The approximately $46 billion in federal expenditures attributable to illegal aliens is staggering. Assuming an illegal alien population of approximately 12.5 million illegal aliens and 4.2 million U.S.-born children of illegal aliens, that amounts to roughly $2,746 per illegal alien, per year. For the sake of comparison, the average American college student receives only $4,800 in federal student loans each year.
FAIR maintains that every concerned American citizen should be asking our government why, in a time of increasing costs and shrinking resources, is it spending such large amounts of money on individuals who have no right, nor authorization, to be in the United States? This is an especially important question in view of the fact that the illegal alien beneficiaries of American taxpayer largess offset very little of the enormous costs of their presence by the payment of taxes. Meanwhile, average Americans pay approximately 30% of their income in taxes.
FEDERAL TAXES
Taxes collected from illegal aliens offset fiscal outlays and, therefore must be included in any examination of the cost of illegal immigration. However, illegal alien apologists frequently cite the allegedly large tax payments made by illegal aliens as a justification for their unlawful presence, and as a basis for offering them permanent legal status through a new amnesty, similar to the one enacted in 1986. That argument is nothing more than a red herring.
FAIR believes that most studies grossly overestimate both the taxes actually collected from illegal aliens and, more importantly, the amount of taxes actually paid by illegal aliens (i.e., the amount of money collected from illegal aliens and actually kept by the federal government). This belief is based on a number of factors: Since the 1990’s, the United States has focused on apprehending and removing criminal aliens. The majority of illegal aliens seeking employment in the United States have lived in an environment where they have little fear of deportation, even if discovered. This has created an environment where most illegal aliens are both able and willing to file tax returns. Because the vast majority of illegal aliens hold low-paying jobs, those who are subject to wage deductions actually wind up receiving a complete refund of all taxes paid, plus net payments made on the basis of tax credits. As a result, illegal aliens actually profit from filing a tax return and, therefore, have a strong interest in doing so.
State and Local
Even though the costs of illegal immigration borne by taxpayers at the federal level are staggering, they only pale in comparison to the fiscal burden shouldered by taxpayers at the state level. Most government taxes and fees remitted to government by Americans are paid in forms other than income taxes submitted to the IRS on April 15th. There are city and state income taxes, fuel surcharges, sales and property taxes, etc…. States and localities also bear the main burden for costs associated with public education, city and county infrastructure, and local courts and jails.
A further complication is the fact that, while barred from many federal benefits, state laws allow illegal aliens to access many state-funded social welfare programs. Because so little data is collected on the immigration status of individuals collecting benefits, it is difficult to determine the rate at which illegal aliens use welfare programs. However, based on the average income of illegal alien households, it appears they use these programs at a rate higher than lawfully present aliens or citizens.
STATE AND LOCAL SPENDING
The combined total of state and local government general expenditures on illegal aliens is $18,571,428,571 billion. The services referenced in this section are supported directly by the payment of city and state taxes and related fees. At the state level, examples of general expenditures would be the costs of general governance, fire departments, garbage collection, street cleaning and maintenance, etc. The state, county or municipality — or even a special taxing district in some situations — may provide some of these services. In most cases, localities offer more services than the state. By FAIR’s estimate, there is approximately a 65 percent to 35 percent cost share between local and state governments.
The estimate of general expenditure services received by illegal alien households, beyond the specific outlays mentioned in the sections above, excludes capital expenditures and debt servicing. The calculation for each state is based on the state’s annual operating budget, reduced by the amount covered by the federal government. That expenditure is then reduced further based on the relative size of the estimated population of illegal aliens and their U.S.-born minor children. As noted in our population estimate, this means states like California, Texas, Florida, New York, etc., with larger illegal alien cohorts, will bear larger shares of these costs.
STATE AND LOCAL TAXES COLLECTED
Offsetting the fiscal costs of the illegal alien population are the taxes collected from them at the state and local level. Many proponents of illegal immigration argue that the taxes paid to the states render illegal aliens a net boon to state and local economies. However, this is a spurious argument. Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume.
Illegal aliens are not typical taxpayers. First, as previously noted in this study, the large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all. (Many actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs.) Second, and also previously noted, the average earnings of illegal alien households are considerably lower than both legal aliens and native-born workers.
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/…
1. California – $23,038,125,353
2. Texas – $10,994,614,550
3. New York – $7,489,141,357
4. Florida – $6,290,429,108
5. New Jersey – $4,466,838,574
6. Illinois – $3,220,767,517
7. Georgia – $2,487,719,503
8. North Carolina – $2,437,965,113
9. Maryland – $2,378,996,947
10. Arizona – $2,314,131,964
I came from Cuba one year b/f the Mariel-boat-lift and I saw w/ my own eyes how Miami was transformed basically over-night and a lot of it not for the better - too-much too-quick immigration will dilute the American way of life just like it did for Miami in 1980; IMO/IME it needs to be a controlled process for it to work best for America.
So even though you guys don't agree with what i said I feel like I accomplished something by joining you two together. Lol
Anyway I don't have the time to further try explaining my thoughts ATM so I'll stand by what I said and you guys can stand against my comments.
I will add that IME posted some info that backs my perspective and Papi's personal experience speaks for itself.
I don't have the bandwidth to lay it all out now for you, but here are some things you can do to prep for it: Think property taxes paid by owners who would not have their buildings if not for 12 million illegals living in them; think economic impacts of losing 12 million agricultural, food service and other low skilled jobs that U.S. natives simply do not want to do; think about the other economic impacts at both the federal and state level in terms of jobs that would not exist if not for immigrants and their progeny consuming goods and services (including lower corporate tax payments, payroll taxes, etc.).
Later on I'll expand upon the economic benefits excluded by the educationally challenged dimwits who wrote that report and also highlight some of the other absurdities in their wild ass estimates on the expenditure side.
If you ever took an Economics class in college, you should immediately go back an ask for a refund. You might even be able to sue for treble damages based upon their criminally negligent educating, lol.
You have taken a subject that is extremely complex and attempted to try and make it into an opinion piece, there are many parts to this discussion, but until the folks that want to keep everyone out are willing to admit that none of us have ever advocated uncontrolled entry to this country there is little to discuss.
Truth is I don't think that your side want's to have a discussion, all I hear y'all saying is "illegal" immigration, is bad and we agree so let's work on that by allowing more immigration by legal verifiable means, shouting at us and posturing, as your side is doing doesn't scare us, nor will it make anyone change their mind.
It is an opinion piece although I "did not make it".
_
"doesn't scare us"
Who's us?
_
"nor will it make anyone change their mind"
Face it 25, nor will anything you say change anyone's mind.
Because I'm not, definitely not if you factor in the NPV ("net present value" since obviously college taught you nothing) of all the tax remittances and other economics benefits that the U.S. citizen children of those illegals will contribute to state and federal governments over their lifetimes. You can't paint legal U.S. citizen children as sunk costs without factoring in all that they will eventually give back as citizen adults, none of which would be the case if their parents never came here and had them. It's asinine myopic monkey math.
You just don't see the bigger picture because you're one of the...er....dudes who needs lots of monkeys doing shit math for you so that you can feel justified in hating immigrants. Oh, and here's a another wink because I know you like it so much. 😉
- DOES factor in the NPV of the progeny of illegals vs. what governments will spend on those kids during their lifetimes;
- Properly calculates the current indirect tax contributions of illegals, including (but not limited to) rent payments being used to fund property taxes;
- Factors in the other economic offsets of losing 12 million illegals from the low wage workforce (increased prices of food and services, shortages of workers in certain industries, etc);
- Factors in the loss of tax revenues at the federal and state level resulting from 12 million illegals and their progeny suddenly not buying goods and services in the U.S. economy, which ultimately fuels to corporate tax payments and income taxes on the people who work to make or provide those goods and services; and
- The assumptions they are using look reasonable (maybe based upon historical measurable data from past generations of immigrants)...
Then you might have a persuasive case if the results support your contention. But what you provided ain't it, nor do I suspect that anything else that you read does that kind of a deep dive. Any purported study of the economic impact of illegal immigration which does not include these factors is just crappy agenda driven monkey math.
You have no facts, just crap math. See above.
You are as always full of crap.
I just did prove it wrong you fucking moron, lol. Did you not understand a word I posted?
As far as the progeny of the illegals, of course they will be net contributors over their lifetimes. A solid majority of U.S. citizens are, whether they come out of illegal wombs or legal ones. Our entire economic and governmental financing models depend upon it unless you are one of a few state governments that finance everything off the backs of a small % of people. Indeed if someone actually did a historical study, I suspect they'd find the children of illegals to be very productive citizens since they don't take their right to work and live here legally for granted - also many of them have to support their illegal parents as they get older, which means they must earn.
As far as billions, lol. Now you're being melodramatic. But would I support a shit ton more? You bet your ass I would. Our population is aging fast and we just don't make enough kids. We need more people paying social security taxes - a fuck ton more. We also need more people to do the hard labor stuff that Americans don't want to do. So I would support much higher numbers if the path to eventual citizenship was tied to, say, staying gainfully employed and not sucking off the government tit for a long number of years.
You can bet your leftist-ass that if most of those immigrants at the border were likely Republican voters that the Dems would militarize the border 1000x the level they have militarized DC and they would by no means let them in.
The Dems wanna turn America into California – virtually an unchallenged one-party progressive system – as it stands right now, the Dems have a virtually guaranteed almost 40% of the electoral vote from the get-go (CA; NY: and IL; just those 3-states; pretty-much guarantee the Dems over 100 electoral votes; not to mention the other solidly-blue states) – the Republicans can only counter w/ Texas and FL which can be considered purple these days and def not as much of a Republican guarantee as CA and NY are for the Dems – and with so many New Yorkers moving to FL and Californians moving to TX, these two-states will become even more purple and not a huge stretch they could turn blue even if it’s by a small-margin.
And this is where illegal-immigration comes in for the Dems – they calculate allowing millions of illegals to come in, and then subsequently pushing for legal-status, that this will swell the Dem vote – FL, and TX in particular would see a large surge of Latino immigrants which would play right into the Dems’ hands of turning those states blue – and if FL and TX go blue, even just TX, it’s likely game-over for the Republicans and the Dems know this and why they are pushing so hard for illegal immigration – the Dems can do the math and they see how their “war on poverty” of the 60s made it so they have had a monopoly of the black vote for 50-years which w/o the Dems would likely not stand a chance since they consistently get 90%+ of the black-vote – similarly the Dems see the “Latino writing on the wall” and the Dems allowing millions of immigrants in; and luring millions upon millions of immigrants with government assistance including legalization; the Dems are betting on monopolizing the Latino vote just as they’ve done w/ the black-vote and them being in able to stay in power for the next few decades – that’s why the Dems want open borders; b/c it will ensure them being the ones in power and profiting from that power.
Last time none of us are for open borders, all of us want control of the entrances, but y’all don’t want to allow anyone in, I’m disappointed in you Papi, you came here and were welcomed and given the opportunity to do better, why do you want to deny that to others.
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth - I'm stating my opinion from my personal POV and you seem to imply it's a problem someone having an opinion different from yours and expressing that opinion - no one said you are not entitled to *your* opinion - you seem to imply that an opinion different from yours is somehow inappropriate - the Dems are absolutely for illegal immigration and subsequently turning those illegals into legal-citizens and subsequently Dem voters for life - if you see it another way that's your prerogative as it is mine to call it as I see it - this is typical of the progressive today, they feel free to express any opinion under the sun while simultaneously wanting to shut down any opinion different from theirs.
Or at least so far. 🍿
One could argue it was when Obama won. Personally, I think it started when FDR was elected. That was the beginning of the end of America. And the end is coming sooner than most people think. Biden might simply be the last nail in the coffin.
I was born after FDR too, Lol. Well, not THAT long after. Born during LBJ, and I read history. The first President I remember was Nixon. I missed voting for Reagan by a few months because I wasn't 18 yet.