Can a reigning ATF be demoted?

Perhaps, but there is a 3 week probationary period before one party decides the other wasn’t so bad after all 😝

I could definitely see an ATF that you might brought up in the game evolving into a ROB. That might end it for me.

All the time. Sometimes I'll see one girl for 3-4 visits in a row then want variety, though I'll come back to old reliable periodically.

Of course it's debatable if such a short term engagement is an ATF.

"Of course it's debatable if such a short term engagement is an ATF."

What seems to be the norm on the main board is your CF (current fav) is the flavor of the moment. The ATF is the All Time Fav, the Fav of Favs, and there can be only one. So the question was, if someone gets there on your list (my ATF #4 displaced ATF #3 after an 11 year stay on top) would TUSCL say an ATF can get dropped from the list without getting bumped by a new all time champ?

I don’t think most of you get what is an ATF, the majority of y’all haven’t been around long enough to have an ATF, if she’s demotable, than she never was an ATF just an illusion

So that's a no from twentyfive.

Going to put Muddy down as a yes. So that's 1 yes, 1 no, 1 maybe.

Tetradon's vote has been been objected to by the gentleman from Florida and is under debate...

I agree wallanon but I also believe it’s possible to have more than one ATF, but truth be told how does a guy who’s only been mongering for a rather short time comparatively speaking know what it takes for a woman to be an ATF, a guy needs to have some experience before he’s able to make that judgement

No. I have not seen my ATF for 5 years but she still holds the title.

Morning update. Tally of votes so far:

2 yes
2 no
1 maybe

We're going to count Tetradon's yea vote. He provided some extra information that skewed things a little, but it's on topic and provided a chance for clarification.

Of course. "All Time Favorite" can only be applied to "up to this point." She could either remove herself from that position by changing her behavior, or be supplanted by someone else who is even *more* desirable. In the latter case, she might still be a favorite, just not the "All Time" version anymore.

Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. I suspect that many of us, myself included, met our ATFs when we were a bit younger and less hardened to the business. Would the same girl have made the same impression if you met her today? For some maybe, for others maybe not. But as the years role on, her legend grows through the soft hews of selective memory fostered over time and it becomes increasingly unlikely that she will ever be de-throned.

That's a yes for gmd. I'm reading Rick Dugan's as a maybe, but I'm seeing maybe there's a possible no.

My take on what Rick is saying is that the ATF's get picked at that place in time. Kind of like sports champions from a different era maybe not being able to win in today's game. I agree with that, because my first ATF wouldn't make the squad now but she was the ATF until the second ATF came along. Totally on board.

But can the current ATF (who is the legit ATF at peak powers but threw some kryptonite in there) knock things so out of whack that she undoes her All Time status? For my example up a little higher, ATF #4 has her name stricken from the record and ATF #3 reclaims the crown? I'm on the fence about ATF's getting scrubbed, but will chime in with what I'm leaning toward before I pick the question out to the main forum.

...but will chime in with what I'm leaning toward before I put the question out to the main forum.

Today's tally on whether ATF's can be demoted or kicked off the list:

3 yes
2 no
2 maybe

Idk. I think that if the ATF title is so fluid that you can cycle through four or more over several years, then either you're the least nostalgic guy on this board or the bar may not be very high or both. IMHO the ATF title is supposed to be reserved for that girl who so stands out from all the rest that you're hard pressed to believe that you'll ever find one you like as much. Shadow's Gridget and GMD's now deceased special gal come to mind.

My ATF spent 18 months off the list and then returned, so I vote: Maybe.

Yes an ATF can take a demotion!

Update for rockie and skibum's votes:

4 yes
2 no
3 maybe

To be clear, it *is* a yes for me.

But I think rick's point about fluidity comes into play a little bit too. Not only between different people using the term, but even for the *same* person over the course of time.

For reasons that are probably obvious to anyone who's been around for a while, I seriously doubt that anyone could oust my ATF from that spot, though "ATF" probably isn't even an appropriate label anymore, given how things developed. There is literally nothing anyone could do to place themselves above her, the bar is impossibly high, and set so because of my memories. "Nostalgia", for lack of a better word. But at the beginning of my strip club "career", well before she became my ATF, my standards wouldn't have been so high. Back in the days of my first visit, "fucks good" might have been the only real critierion. A few years later, I might have added reliability, and as time went on, reasonably priced, available, how she treated me, were added to the list.

I completely get that our relationship was not typical, and that it's an extreme example, but it illustrates the point. Standards of ATFness almost *have* to evolve, because when someone comes along to replace an ATF, she's presumably better in some way, thus the standard for becoming an ATF raises with each successive replacement. It's somewhat analogous to a sports record. As each record is broken, the new record becomes the standard by which subsequent competitors are judged.

The exception to that would be someone who's *actions* cause them to be disqualified. Someone who meets one's definition of ATF, whatever that might be at the moment, but then falls off. I'm not talking about simple absence, e.g. quitting the clubs, marrying, moving far away, or something like that, but things like being taken over by drugs, or becoming a thief, or attitude change. Things that mean she no longer meets the criteria, even if she once did. That might not automatically evolve one's ATF standard to a higher level, but just cause one to look elsewhere for what is now missing. In this case, I assume it would be *possible* for a former ATF to regain her spot, but it might be more difficult that attaining it in the first place, simply because the standards might have evolved since she lost the crown.

Definite "Yes" from me.

One ATF, Traci, moved up to ATF status, moved clubs, she retained status. We had a number of OTC's, all the while I knew she was married. Even ran into her and her husband at the movies, my wife was along. Traci and I kept it cool. Her ATF status lasted until she decided to get pregnant. That was fine until she told me not to use a condom. End of ATF status. Period! I got my own kids and they're enough. Fast forward a few years and I get a text from Traci, completely out of the blue. I'd seen her a few times in the club, but no OTC and only a few lame LDs. Well, the text was sexy and her replacements had all gone out of the business, so I was interested. Our texting moved to sexting and pretty soon, I was scheduling a business trip to Indy for some fun with Traci. Had OTCs with her for several years. But, time is not kind to women's looks. She took good care of herself, but, the younger hotter competition was so exciting. So, I let her go. The second time with a nice parting gift. We remain friends, and when I'm going to be in Indy, I definitely let her know. Sometimes we hook up, sometimes we don't.

I was all ready to demote my ATF this week. We are over a 1000 miles apart and see each about 6-8 times a year.We have known each other for about 4-5 years now.
We partied together ITC in November 2020. She was supposed to meet me the next day for OTC, but she ghosted me.Blamed it on a hangover.
We texted back and forth around Christmas, and she was wanting to get together. I said No, my life was too hectic, but lets try mid -January 2021.She never texted me back with a yes or no.
Phone was dead silent until Monday, and we were supposed to meet on Tuesday. Most other ATF's (I have 3) usually text back within a day, this one takes weeks on average.
I was ready to dump her this week..........

I told her that she needs to be a little faster on the return texts.She then gives me her real number, and burned up my phone all day, until we met that evening. Turns out she gave me a text app Phone Number originally, and needs to log in to check out her text messages..
Back at the hotel, I gave her the 2020 Christmas Bonus, plus her typical fee and all is good now.
So my answer is YES, you can drop them, but they can also climb back to the top.
As usual, when it goes south, you need to drill down to find out why. Whether you believe them or not is another question.
But after I got her real number, she lit up my phone like the 2020 Riots.

Update for votes from LVclubber and dirtyburt:

6 yes
2 no
3 maybe

Yes they can

Update - bang69 votes yes. wallanon votes no. I'll get around to why I voted no later.

7 yes
3 no
3 maybe

Not able to opine as I have yet to meet a favorite of any kind.

—>“Update - bang69 votes yes. wallanon votes no. I'll get around to why I voted no later.”

So why vote no?

Anything can happen

When I say I'll get around to something later, it might be a year lol. I voted "no" because on my all time list a stripper has to do a lot to get there. So even if she gets fired, she's still the ATF. And if ATF #4 gets back off the bench, she goes right where she was as the top girl. Fired again? Yeah, it's a trend. Still the ATF...until she gets knocked off that perch.

If you have feelings or an attachment she can't be replaced easily

Wall used to be my ATF until he took over a year to answer the thread and is hence demoted.
Unfortunately I'm too upset about it to answer so I vote 'Present'.

I'm actually still waiting for an ATF. Too many CFs maybe.
At this point the criteria is either being the one that makes me forget about clubbing ever again, or the one that finally fucks me to death in the VIP.

I've demoted hundreds. Still have hundreds more...

Yes.

In civilian relationships, your spouse is supposed to be the equivalent of a lifelong ATF. And a lot of people do enter into marriage filled with romance and sincere "'til death do us part" sentiments.

Then again... divorce is a thing. And it's a thing for about half the marriages that occur. I also know a number of people who are much happier in their second marriages than their first, referring to that unsuccessful first marriage as the "practice run" or something similar.

All relationships change, including the ones we have with dancers.

To answer the original question
Yes, anything that comes with an expiration date will eventually sour.

"Wall used to be my ATF until he took over a year to answer the thread and is hence demoted."

Well, if they're the actual, factual ATF it shouldn't be a simple matter to boot them from the top of the list. And she's still there. Trying to keep it that way, too lol. The other day (when I made the mistake of going to the club while she was working) the ATF spotted a new girl she thought was hot and brought her up.

I agreed she was hot. Very hot, which I didn't say. But then said something like let's see if she's still around in a week. That place is tough on new talent. Later on I got reminded why she wears the crown.

My first strip club adventure was 52 years ago. I've seen a significant number of tits and ass. Over that time, I have had many "Current Favorites" or "Club Favorites" but only three that rose to the status of "All Time Favorite". The first two lasted about 5 years each. One lasted a wild week in Myrtle Beach.
The current ATF is going on 8 years and stronger than ever. But, the fact that she is the ATF has relegated the previous girls into a "Current Favorite" category even if it was for an extended time.
I think the ATF is defined by who would you want to spend time with if every girl you have ever met was available.
That is why my ATF is my ATF.

I'm also on my fourth ATF. There's another dancer who probably counts, but timing and COVID kept her from getting her own run at the top of my list. I thought about making her ATF 3.5, but then that just makes it look like I can't do math lol. My ATF is fired again, this time maybe for good, but the ATF runner up is not. The runner up is a better all around experience, but at peak vs peak experience she just can't quite take the champ. Not sure if she'll ever catch her, but there's a couple of new contenders with potential.

"Perhaps, but there is a 3 week probationary period before one party decides the other wasn’t so bad after all"

Can it be a three year probationary period?

"I could definitely see an ATF that you might brought up in the game evolving into a ROB. That might end it for me."

What if she was already a ROB, but there was something about the other that kept both coming back? The custie had money so that solves one half of the mystery lol. Can a ROB learn how not to be a ROB if a customer gets over enough? Is it crazy to even try to ATF a ROB?

"Not sure if she'll ever catch her, but there's a couple of new contenders with potential."

This was false. Sadly the girl I wanted to be the new all time fav fell back to earth with a thud. The ATF also came back around when she realized I was serious about firing her for good. She got herself unfired and is actually better than ever in all phases of the game.

2 years ago I voted no. 2 years later it's still no. After all this, the only way I'm seeing her getting knocked off is if I decide to "keep" one.