Still think facemasks are helping?

Well Europe locked down completely and used face masks and they are doing .....they are doing .......never mind.

The idea here is people still want to go out and do things. Sure everyone locking them selves in a closet for 3 weeks will guarantee spreading a virus to stop, but who is willing to do that?? So, you allow people to still go out but just wear a mask. Are there any studies that prove the virus can jump off a t-shirt and go around your mask and jump in your mouth?

There's so much inconsistency. Facemasks are supposed to be an effective solution, yet we use contact tracing. Herd immunity doesn't work, yet vaccines are supposed to. God we are really lucky that this virus isn't anything as deadly as ebola, or even influenza (aka, the common flu). Our medical and political leadership are just too reactionary. We are making policy based upon tweets and pressure from social media posts.

Facemasks help social distancing is better.

Honestly the big problem is when people feel comfortable.

Face masks are a mitigation and not a solution. So is social distancing. It doesn't mean its useless.

Masks offer a false sense of security and decrease panic. Make people think they can do something and have some control over the situation when in reality social distancing and shutdowns are what helps

"Honestly the big problem is when people feel comfortable."

Basically this. Make the best decisions you can for yourselves and whomever you are responsible for and carry on.

It will be interesting to see how history judges these decisions.

Impossible to see reality in the moment.

Fauci said masks were not needed at the beginning but now says we should wear them. Really brings in questions of credibility.

So are you suggesting we just ditch the facemasks?

Fauci said that to save the (under) supply for medical workers. Later, as more was LEARNED, the advice changed. The ability to change because of learning is relevant here.

OP posted, "The only reason the numbers went down was because of the lockdown,"

Can someone explain to me when the 1st lockdown ended. I dont think we have been able to go anywhere without restrictions

Properly worn and constructed face masks can dramatically cut down on spread. Other parts of the world have know this for decades... heck even we knew it in 1918 (even if they didn't exactly understand why). Plague doctors wore them ages ago over. It's well trodden science. The primary issue is that many wear them improperly and good chunk of people don't wear them at all.

I think you are conflating the fact that cases are up with face masks not helping, when in reality it's just that they aren't helping ENOUGH to mitigate increases due to wildly irresponsible behavior like throwing parties, gathering multiple households together, etc. Rules vary state by state, city by city and enforcement is spotty at best even in the "best" areas. We've now hit exponential growth levels that will render contact tracing and even mask usage ineffective to stop major increases in spread. What's needed are massive behavioral changes, but I'm not optimistic we'll see those.

Altogether it's just a gigantic mess with no centralized adult leadership to be found. Thank goodness it looks like vaccines may be extremely effective, otherwise I expect we'd continue to grind our population and economy down for years.

@gSteph - what was there to learn? He idiotically lied to the public at a time when full transparency was needed.

Now we wonder why no one believes the "experts".

It is important to distinguish between face coverings, which are not regulated, and respirators like N95s, which are regulated by OSHA. A face covering is only one of multiple strategies intended to help reduce transmission among individuals by reducing (but not eliminating) the spray of aerosol particles generated from speech, coughing, sneezing, etc. Other strategies include enhanced ventilation with more fresh air, distancing, reducing duration of exposure, etc. None of these strategies are sufficient on their own to prevent transmission, but implemented as a suite of mitigation measures, they can reduce transmission. The reality is that most of us are unwilling to fully recognize the risk, and act accordingly. Why else would we be talking about where you can still get contact lap dances? Everyone has a personal risk tolerance that is driven by their own experience and bias.

Not all masks are created equal. I saw a study, fleece masks are worse than nothing at all. N95/KN95s, on the other hand, work.

What? NO mention of how rap music is contributing to covid?

Cant lie, when I saw it was Nickifree who posted I thought the topic would be some kind of bitching about rap music again 😂🤣

I was wrong about that but he did write his familiar 'I called this back in.....'

The problem is linked to mainly the indoor bars and restaurants where the masks are not in use while people are eating and drinking. Same problem with family and friends gathering in private residences for meals and parties like birthdays, graduations, anniversaries, etc. The Covid tracking data is showing this transmission pattern across the country.

the large gatherings at synagogues here in nyc certainly didn't help.

now with thanksgiving just a week away can we guess how many new infected cases there will 2-3 weeks thereafter?

Mask wearing is not advertised as a be all end all solution. It’s just a mitigating factor that COULD make a difference if those spoiled, and to selfish to make a minor modification to behaviors would get off their high horse and just suck it up and join in by wearing.

While in no way do I support lockdowns, business restrictions, etc, the OP is absolutely right that they likely do a bit more than the masks which do nothing other than give people a false sense of security and restrict people's ability to breathe and get oxygen (regardless of what phony "studies" are trotted out claiming the opposite).

IF people truly believe this illness is a big deal (which I do not) then they should be staying home isolating. A flimsy piece of cloth over one's mouth is not only useless for all intents and purposes but outright silly.

The mask is actually worse than silly though when it is "mandatory." Its a form of control by the globalists and tyrants. Ernst Junger in The Worker wrote of a future where everyone would be required to wear masks as a means of stripping their individuality.

Its also a method of control by the elites and submission by the populace. Its no coincidence that the current practice came from Communist China. Well after the SARS breakout ended I would see Chinese people, ones recently from China or Asia with masks on for no apparent reason. I felt sad from them having been brainwashed and psycologically scarred to keep wearing this even after the illness went away. I was so glad that could never happen in western culture, or so I thought, lol.

I fesr most for what this is doing to kids. Putting these things even on toddlers is going to have longterm psychological effects we can't even imagine yet.

To the Covid hystetics on here ( people who think this minor illness is their business to worry about and impose tyranny on others over), I simply ask "why this illness"?

Why are you so concerned and worked up over thhs particular illness as opposed to every other illness, disease, or potential safety risk? If it wasn't obsessively talked about on the "news" would you even know it existed, or at least would you be so obsessed over it? Why othet than unwarranted hype should er be so concerned about an illness that has close to a 200 percent recovery rate and many people who supposedly have it don't even know?

Nothing about the response to this makes any rational sense.

One more point to the poster who talked about plague masks. Thats an argument against

masks. It was pseudo-science at the time and turned out that the transmission vector was fleas not through the air. We haven't apparently advanced much since the 14th century.

Correction: close to 100% recovery rate. Sorty for the typo.

This is a serious issue. Our political leadership should do what is necessary and immediately issue a nationwide, mandatory requirement that all persons wear appropriate PPE, in or out of public, as a minimum with the equipment shown here: tuscl.net Also acceptable: tuscl.net

Also I am tired of the canned talking point "the ability to change because of learning" (or variations on that).

That is basically admitting that the "health authorities" are just guessing and making things up as they go. If what they were saying 8 months ago was wrong then there is a high likelihood what they are saying now is also wrong.

Yes, they will probably become "less wrong" over time but still will be partly or even mostly wrong (that's even giving them the benefit of the doubt they are trying to be right rather than pushing agendas for ulterior reasons).

If society is going to engage in radical measures that limit people's rights and liberties it should have to be based on a lot more than guess work or being "less wrong" than they were previously.

Yes, masks do aid in the reduction of transmission. However, no authority, federal/state/municipal has the authority to force you to wear one inside or outside your home. It is up to individuals and businesses to require masks in their home or business as a pre-requisite for entry. I've had some remodeling and construction done in my home during the past year, and I required the quoters and workers to wear masks tonwnter

... to enter. I also require masks to enter my practice. No masks, no entry. We also refuse to patronize restaurants and stores that do not praxtice social distancing and PPE, not even take out. I have carside delivery at Home Depot and Lowe's, and go to Publix where people wear masks.

If you choose NOT to wear a mask, you are also choosing reduced service and shopping options. You can no more force your way into a business requiring masks than you can be forced to wear a mask in your own home.

HIV/AIDS in thd 80s and 90s was far far far more deadly than this minor illness and society didn't require people wear condoms under penalty of law. It was strongly encouraged and promoted but not forced.

Cities that tried to shut down gay bathhouses got massive pushback (a few did shut them down but most didn't). Even suggestions of forced quarantines were met with extreme hostility by the media and civil liberties groups.

In fact, laws were passed preventing discrimination based on the fear of AIDS. We bent over bsckwards to protect the rights both of those positive and those in high risk groups.

In fact we bent

Yes you can "force your way into a business" because its a place of public accommodation. There are already massive limits on what businesses can force on their customers including dress.

Imagine a business forcing a woman to wear a burka. How do you think that would go over.

There have been court cases that have upheld the medical exemptions to forced mask wearing. Businesses may not realize it but they can be sued for not allowing exemptions under current law, at least in California.

Wrong on all points, Dave, but thanks for playing.