Would you consider a club that overpriced dances a scam??

I don't consider it a scam if they are upfront about it. For example, if you ask a girl how much for a private dance and she quotes a figure, whatever it is, and you agree, there's no scam. But if she quotes a figure, you pay her, head for the back room, and then she says that she needs a tip before she'll dance, then it's time to head for the door. Except that I know of several clubs where that's the way the place works, every girl does that because the upfront money all goes to the house, and since the customers are mostly regulars the girls assume you know how it works. Then you're into kind of a grey area IMO.

I think anyone who goes to stripclubs regularly knows that some of the dancers (and clubs) are looking to scam you. It's all part of the game, you have to be on the lookout for it. If that bothers you, either find a club that isn't like that and become a regular there, or find another hobby.

no. FONDL is right...it's only a scam if ownership says prices are say, $30 per dance, but then when you go to pay, you are told you owe $35. No scam if you know upfront what price is, agree to it, and then get your dance. it's another argument altogether as to whether dances are over-priced.

A scam involves some kind of deceit. Unexpected charges are one kind of scam, even when most experienced customers anticipate them. A worse scam is not delivering on what the added charges were supposed to buy, which is usually the case. Worst of all is presenting the customer with hidden charges afterwards and threatening him if he doesn't pay up, which is plain extortion.

Agreed. Scam = deception. High prices but honest = annoyance, or overpriced, or disappointing simply because it's something I want but can't afford.

The only time I've ever felt scammed involved using a credit card for VIP dances. It seemed like a whole team of employees were required to execute the transaction. Why in hell should anyone expect a tip for running a credit card? Having waited tables in a previous life, I know how hard waiters work so I have no problem tipping...when they deserve it! If a club makes it a priority to get guys into VIP's, wouldn't it make sense to make a credit card transaction as painless as possible?

Interesting. Is Pete's story a "scam" or just "bad business." Where does one draw the line. Doesn't sound like he felt DECEIVED, really, but maybe he DID feel scammed ... hmm ...

Anytime you use a credit card in a strip club you're begging to at least feel like you're being scammed. You can't be sure whether it was more that a feeling until you see your next statement.

I'm far too nervous to use a credit card in a strip club. God only knows what charges are going to be on the card, over and above what you _thought_ you were paying for. I'd be even more nervous if my wife took care of the bills, but fortunately I don't have to bear that cross.

I'll throw in with the majority on the main motion... the key concept is disclosure. As long as everyone was honest about the crappy goods they were peddling, and at such high prices, then it isn't a scam...just bad business, and a remarkably candid invitation to come and be taken.

I have to agree with everyone here. The club I go to locally has overpriced dances, but they are upfront about everything, so I don't think they are scam artists. But my old favorite club had some dancers who were scam artists which is why I no longer visit that place regularly.

I always double-check my credit-card statements, so I'm not really worried about LOSING the money in the long run, if a strip club were to make extra charges. The Visa company would have to side with me eventually.

What I'd be worried about would simply be the hassle. Have to get a new card number and a new plate, have to dispute the charges, have to send in the dispute form in a timely manner (and what if I got hit by a car and was unconscious for the interim?), etc.

One of the advantages of using a credit card is that you have another intermediary between yourself and the merchant. That's, in fact, one of the initial intentions of the whole credit-card concept -- the organization issuing it helps merchants to identify viable prospects for "credit" purchases (no cash or bank account used until later); the same organization helps customers to identify viable prospects for the same. Sure, it's all gotten abstracted into computerized numbers and nothing more, but in the long run there's a degree of protection in it.

I always use a credit card when I buy something on E-Bay, just for the extra layer of security. And I try to make most major purchases that way, too. Worst that can happen is I get the product for the price agreed upon. :)

I am aware of clubs setting dance prices for their girls, but I believe these prices are guidelines in most cases.

How many times have we heard from a dancer, "My dances are usually $30, but for you, I do them for $20". If the girls NEED da' money, they will negotiate.

We had a long discussion of what constitutes a scam several times. To my recollection deceit is almost always a prerequisite according to the consensus view, but it has to be deceit that affects the price. If a girl gives you a long sob story about needing money, but then only charges the standard rate for a LD I'd consider that bad buisness but not a scam. I'd expand a little to venture that if the dancer witheld information that would affect your willingness to pay for a dance that could be considered a scam too. In general I agree that if you know what you are getting and get it for the price you expected then you aren't getting scammed. Maybe ripped off, like you get ripped off for the $10 beers, but not scammed.

P.S. I think in this case "scam" has a very specific strip-culture meaning that may not translate exactly to the rest of the world.

It depends on the guidelines of the club. I worked in a club where there was a minimum price for dances. Meaning a dancer was not allowed to offer a dance lower than that price yet @ the same time its the dancers discretion to price the dances she gives @ whatever. So whereas the min may be $10, the dancer could charge more because there was no set rate just a minimum rate. And to those on the outside coming in, if you dont know that and someone told you "oh dances there are $10", you may think you are being scammed if you ask a dancer for a dance and she gives a higher price. And that is not necessarily the case.

Every price is open for negotiation in every setting; it's just, that some settings have some rather strict limitations on when, where, or how you can negotiate. Girls might have a bouncer or other dance-counter system imposed on them, by which they really can't get away with a price lower than a certain standard; but then at other times the bouncer might not be around to count; etc.

BG, you're first sentence isn't true. I know a lot of clubs where you pay someone other than the dancer for private dances and the price is fixed. He also keeps track of how many songs you are in the LD room for. There is no opportunity to negotiate. I don't much like that system but some of those clubs are otherwise very nice so I was willing to put up with it.

Except when I travel, every club I go to has set prices that aren't negotiable, and everyone understands that. I like it that way. I can just focus on which girl I want dances with, tell her to stop when I've had enough and hand over the money.

FONDL: yeah that system sucks. :(