Something that's been puzzling me ...

17 comments

• Book Guy

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  17 years ago

  My thoughts are, she's workin' you for money. She tells marginally "sexy" stories so that you'll get horned up. She may even delude herself, that you "like" being teased, as is evidenced by the fact that these sorts of stories and behaviors excite you. But she's denying, either for real or just to you, that the lack of pleasing after the teasing, is a sense of unhappiness rather than pleasure to you.
• shadowcat

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  17 years ago

  I am only guessing but it may have to do with her relationship with her boyfriend. Their relationship may be closer and probabbly is more than you and hers. You are not a customer anymore, just an old family friend. He gets the pussy.
• Yoda

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  17 years ago

  FONDL: You can't have it both ways. It doesn't matter how many times you saw her naked or even "fondled" her during dances WHILE SHE WAS A DANCER. She was working then and seeing her naked was part of the job. She isn't a dancer anymore. If she was comfortable being naked around you it would mean she was still viewing you as a customer. If I were you I'd be happy with the way she is thinking now. It is a sign that she views you as a friend.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  I mostly agree with Book Guy about all the racy stories, and it sounds like she's taking you somewhat for granted, except that little of it really seems terribly puzzling to me. No more than most strippers I've known, or most women for that matter. Timing and context make all the difference. Having stripped on the job doesn't mean she is always going to be free of inhibitions in other situations. And isn't it the case for many topics with all women, it's not the topic that's mentioned, it's who brings it up. I agree with Yoda, too. Either it's a sexual relationship or it's not. If it's sexual, I wouldn't be too apologetic about reacting as a man, and I wouldn't take her anger very seriously. I would just laugh at her for being silly and expect her to laugh along. If it's not sexual, however, I wouldn't want to be stealing looks at her tits in the first place. I would accept her modesty as natural and desirable for sustaining a friendship.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  Sounds like you're a friend and she's saving her body for her boyfriend. Some girls get picky about those sort of things.
• Amigomio

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  17 years ago

  I agree with Casualguy... Your ATF is your All Time Friend... but I think she sees you as the Friend to Kill Time with. Look at the way she tells you things and acts and reacts to your presence. Even you are reacting to her acts: "I'm quite sure she wouldn't have done that if I were there" Be glad you weren't there or she might be telling you right now "Oh, I remember when I had fun". FONDL, there is one thing you should consider: I think you remind her of her days as a stripper and it might be something she wants to put away for good.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Thanks, guys, for the various insights. I agree with Yoda, I think he has it right and that's exactly the way I veiw the situation. I guess my only problem with that is I find it hard (no pun intended) to forget the thousand or so LDs that we've had together. So I probably do think of her differently than I otherwise would - and she probably sees me somewhat differently too. She often jokes about it, and in fact we always have treated it with humor even when she was dancing. For me this isn't a question of sex, it's a question of intimacy. We've never done anything remotely sexual OTC and I seriously doubt that we ever will. And I'm fine with that, I much prefer it that way. But what puzzles me is that in some respects we aren't as intimate* as we once were, and I'm talking about after she quit dancing, not during. We still are very intimate in some ways (eg. she tells me personal stuff that I'm sure she'd never tell anyone else), but in other ways we've become less so. I'm just trying to figure out where she draws that line because she isn't always consistent. But then women rarely are. *I recently came across a definition of "intimate" as "a sincere and close connection between 2 people." That's the way I generally use the term and that's the way I'm using it here.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  I'd say there certainly is a question of sex involved, it's just that the answer is no. The examples you gave would not be considered out-of-place in a sexual relationship. Modesty is more a matter of propriety than intimacy. In fact, it can allow for greater intimacy by making friends more comfortable with each other.
• Book Guy

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  17 years ago

  I dunno, I know a lot of girls who are convinced that a little bit of them (teasing, but not pleasing) is better for the guy than none of them at all. They seem to think, "Hey, I made him want to fuck me, and even though I didn't fuck him, at least making him want to was something he wanted, right?" Idiots ...
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  Book Guy, I'm not sure what you're commenting on with that. Some issue of your own? It does seem that FONDL's ATF might be trying to have it both ways as much as he is. Still teasing like a stripper but trying to act like that never happened.
• lotsoffun201

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  17 years ago

  Interesting, and I think I might have a different take on this one since I am married to a now ex stripper. When she was dancing she wore much more revealing clothes, ie. shorter shorts and belly shirts. She was never concerned that a dress was too short or that heels were too high. Since quitting the shorts have gotten longer, the heels lower, and the shirts much more covering. Perhaps, your gal is trying to make you believe she is more conservative and she has another motive, like she might like to get to know you a little better. I could be wrong, but see what happens.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Chandler, you make a couple of good points. I think the crux of this issue is that she and I have very different definitions of "intimacy." There's obviously a stong relationship between intimacy and sex, and there's a large grey area where they can overlap. So when does intimacy become sexual? Where I draw that line is probably a lot further along than where she does. Things that I would view as intimate she probably considers to be sexual. Like some forms of nudity for example. Lotsoffun, I don't thank she's doing anything intentionally, I don't think she's the least bit aware of any of this. She's a very flirtatious and teasing person and is pretty much like that with everyone, and she doesn't realize it (we've talked about it many times.) But she's that way in more of a tomboyish than a sexual way. I wouldn't describe her as being particularly sexy. And frankly that's a big part of her charm, she still has that innocent-young-girl-ness about her.
• Book Guy

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  17 years ago

  I personally don't think you can ever have "intimacy become sexual." Rather, I personally think it's sexuality which can eventually become intimate. But then, that's just my thought on the matter, and since I'm not the dancer in question it doesn't really matter. :)
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  Book Guy, I think FONDL is talking about where the distinction lies with regard to more superficial intimacy, not about chronology. He's posted before about his appreciation of nudity separate from sexuality. I think that's fine, although one should be aware that others likely won't accept your appreciation as pure and chaste, especially in connection with strippers or ex-strippers. As for emotional intimacy becoming sexual over time, I think it happens often for a lot of people, although I find it hard to believe there aren't sexual undercurrents from the start.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Chandler, you understand what I'm trying to say. She and I are already very intimate in many respects (although I doubt if she'd say it that way, because to her the word "intimate" has a sexual meaning.) I just wish we could be a little more intimate physically as well, but without being sexual. I think that's easier to do when you're older than when you're young. So I think to some extent our (mine and my ATF's) different perspectives on this is a function of our very different ages. Earlier someone also mentioned that maybe the presence of a boy friend also has something to do with the change in her behavior. I agree, that's definately part of why we aren't quite as physically intimate as we used to be. For example we used to hold hands a lot when walking. She won't do that anymore and I miss it. As I said before, in some respects we're more intimate (read: closer) than ever, but physically we have become a little less so. And I'm not comparing now to when she was a dancer, I'm comparing now to several years ago, long after she quit dancing. I don't fully understand the change.
• 99Intrepid

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  17 years ago

  It doesn't sound to me that you are satisfied in your current arrangement (no suprise there - don't know many men that would be). You need to communicate your thoughts and feelings better (shit they do it all the friggin time - sometimes it seems they can't turn it off). In your case, I'm not sure what you've got to lose - you're not getting half of what a normal relationship would give you. If you feel you would "lose" her then you may want to either 1)Come to the conclusion the relationship wasn't a strong one anyway or 2) Continue to let her dictate all of the terms of your relationship with her and be satisfied and mute about it.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  99, you're totally misreading the situation. I'm delighted with the way our relationship is, it's a very strong relationship and is damn near perfect. I'm just curious about some of her behaviors in this one area. Because of her background she has difficulty with intimacy. And I'm not just talking about nudity, that's just an example.