Should TUSCL add a field for Average Song Length to the review form?

I agree there should be.

I think it’s kind of like the supermarket effect where the price stays the same but they include less product. Ice cream used to be sold in half gallons, but now it comes in 48 oz containers for the same price. A lap dance has been $20 for as long as I can remember, it’s just shorter. If the price raised to $30 but the song length remained the same, people would be upset at the price increase. Less people notice the time decrease while the price remains the same.

dang, you've been a member since 2002 and you have 0 reviews

how is that possible

That would be useful if there was any consistency. IMO, it varies from one day to the next and even from one DJ to the next. I have seen 2 minute songs and 5 minute songs in the same set.

+1 King

+1 plus another 1 for GoVikings !

I think Go Go Rama is the only club in USA that guarantees 5 minutes for a lap dance for $20.
tuscl.net

If strip club industry wants to thrive they should stick to $6/minute payscale for dancers during Action Time (i.e. contact dancing).
This pricing level brings in maximum customers and revenue - and minimizes idle time for dancers during a shift.

I also feel dancers put in a lot of effort to look good when they come in to work.
There should be a $1/minute payout when a dancer is not dancing but sitting/flirting with a customer.

Any deviation (higher or lower) will reduce revenue for club and take-home pay for dancer, in my opinion.

I have to agree with Justin. I think it is best to just cover it in the text of the review. I really have a problem with black clubs. 20 of them in my area and it seems that every one that I have been to plays nothing but that rap crap, cuts the songs short and runs them together so that the unsuspecting customer has no idea of how many dances he is getting. Let the other customers know to watch out for this and ask your dancer to let you know the count after each song or do like I do an not go back there again.

It's an ok idea, but I doubt it would be used be more than 10% of reviewers, and that's being generous. Most guys wouldn't bother timing songs in a strip club. I've done it but only after reading threads like this and mentions from others like Papi Chulo about song lengths. When I timed it I found that the song lengths were closer to 3 minutes, with the lowest being 2:30 and the longest closer to 3:20. And I think the song length field might be inaccurate if you get folks that just guess how long the songs are instead of really timing it.

I think Justintolook is right on the money about the decreasing song lengths. We've often marveled at the fact that the standard price for a lap dance has remained at $20 for over a decade now, despite constant inflation. This is probably the clubs way of dealing with it. Keep the price the same but shorten the songs. Sounds a lot better than increasing the price and keeping the song lengths the same.

The best places to me are ones that sell dances based on time, not songs. Like Playhouse Lounge in NJ for example. $30/four minutes. Plus the fact the time is monitored by a dedicated time keeper and not a dancer who might try to skimp you on the time.

Appreciate the feedback and ideas. If not a specific field to fill, perhaps the review guidelines should suggest song length be mentioned within the write up?

And GoVikings, true; I've never posted a review - here. I'm a paid life-time VIP member. But I'm always happy to answer PM's requesting advice. I've been going to San Fernando Valley-based clubs since the 80's and I've travelled all over the US and dozens of other countries visiting clubs and consuming all manner of on- and off-menu services. So, there you go... :)

buying a ‘timed’ dance is better. but who in strip club management is honestly going to listen to our suggestions...

I think there are too many categories as is, and the subjectivity doesn't make all of them useful.

Mickey's in RI is $20 for a 5-minute lap dance. I prefer the certainty. Also, you can't get screwed by the dancer miscounting songs.

^ "At $20 a song with 3 minute songs, the PL is paying $400 per hour for standard lap dances.
At $20 a song with 2 minute songs, teh PL is paying $600 per hour for standard lap dances."

Wow, did you do all that math by yourself?
Fucking MENSA material there.

I think a separate field for that would be difficult at best but maybe it would be a good idea to mention it under value in the guidelines for reviews

Thanks for the support, flagooner. It must be amazing for you to see a PL that can count higher than 10 (or 11 if your shorts are around your ankles).

I usually negotiate a certain length of time and pay a flat rate for that session.

Hm, probably not a bad idea. Perhaps put it in the club comment section and not the review tho.

Well, i think it’s a great idea to include such in the body of the review. Thus, my future reviews will contain this information. I know one club i recently went to had a DJ playing 7 minute songs. Was awesome.

This is my biggest pet-peeve in clubs - one can work around things like a bad dancer or a dancer wanting to charge too-much by just finding another dancer - but if you get a bad DJ then you're stuck with him and he can fuck up your whole visit and every one of your dances (by cutting songs very-short) and for the most-part there's nothing you can do about it except leave or not get dances.

I SCed for 10-years b/f joining TUSCL and never once did it cross my mind to time songs - part of it is that b/f joining TUSCL I did not SC as much nor hit as many different clubs.

Post joining TUSCL and learning the finer-points of SCing, and becoming aware of different SCs, I became a more avid PL and started hitting more clubs including hitting black SCs more often - it wasn't till I became a black-SC goer almost exclusively that I got hit w/ a severe-case of song-cutting which as I learned from reading a lot of black SC TUSCL reviews, is much-more egregious in a lot of black clubs.

As shadowcat mentioned, often times in the black-clubs not only are the songs cut-short, but they are bled-together like some lunchtime power mix - in most-mixed clubs the DJ talks in b/w songs either to announce the next dancer or just say "set #2 for Lexus"; etc - this is often not the case in black-clubs where the DJ can often talk all the time often over the music and at times even stop the song for him to share w/e is on his mind - thus one can't even try to cue off of the DJ consistently talking in b/w songs.

One night circa 2012 in a small black club I was having a very difficut time trying to know when one rap-song ended and another one started - about 4-minutes into a dance w/ an ebony I decided to double-check the dance-count and to my PL-astonishment she tells we're into song #4 - I stopped the dances and just paid her for the 4 - at first I thought she was ROBing me but I decided to pay extra-attention to the music and sure-enough as best as I could tell this guy would mix in a new-song every 30 to 45 seconds as if he was in a hiphop club vs a strip-club.

This is when I got religion and became a song-length Nazi and started timing songs whether it was a mixed-club or a black-club - and to my surprise, in many mixed-clubs, although not nearly as bad as the black-clubs, songs were shorter than I thought/anticipated - in many mixed-clubs songs were being played as short as 2.5 minutes for a $25 LD; w/ teh avg being around 3 minutes; and some around 3.5 minutes - I would also noticed in certain clubs they seemed as if they had kinda like a sequence where they would play songs from 2.5 to 3.5 minutes - e.g. they would play a song at 2.5 mins, the next one closer to 3 mins, the next one closer to 3.5 mins, then back down to 2.5 mins for the next one and repeat the sequence - felt to me like I was being scammed b/c it's not as if I was paying less for the shorter songs - and also felt as if they were mixing the sequence on purpose as to not look as obvious that the songs were being cut-short.

Trying to fight for longer song-lengths is kinda an uphill-battle - for one the avg custy that just visits clubs from time-to-time probably doesn't have a clue - neither are most custies for that matter (I didn't really noticed till I experienced the supa-cut-songs in black clubs) since they are focused on the dance/dancer - also, some custies go to a club just to socilaize/hang-out/be-spectators; others focus mainly of VIP which is usually a block-of-time; others go to a club with the main-purpose of finding an OTC candidate - i.e. only those custies that like to get lots of dances are most affected by cut-songs.

When I became an avid-reviewer I would mention this a lot in my reviews particularly my black-club reviews - with time it got a lot better where now is not as big an issue - I can't claim it was my reviews and probably wasn't; I asssume a bigger part of it was me transitioning from a mostly nightshift custy to a mostly dayshift custy where the song-cutting seemed more egregious during the nightshift party-time where the black clubs in particular felt more like nightclubs or house-parties.

Chulo described in 1 word “verbose”

:)

I do think having a field about song-length may help - most likely most custies are not gonna be timing-songs but there could be a category w.r.t. song lengths w/ maybe the options, "short", "medium"; "long", or a Nazi PL like me could enter more exact measurements - I don't necessarily think this would cause a shift towards fairer song-lengths, but at least it would put it more on TUSCLers' radar to where they may notice and maybe start saying something to management and if enough people complain then maybe something can change - but at least it puts it on the SCer's radar to where if he feels his songs are flying by that it may not be him or his imagination.

Along the lines of a song-lengths entry, I also think a drink/alcohol quality may be a beneficial field/entry (quality and not just price) - I'm not much of a drinker but do like to get a bit of a buzz on some visits - not being much of a drinker means if I get a quality drink (usually a Long Island for me); one properly made LI (or other properly made strong-drink) will almost always give me a good-buzz - yet I'm finding more and more that I'm paying a premium and sometimes overpriced drink-prices and it's as if I was drinking flavored-water - like cut-songs, a field like this would put it on SCers' radar to where if they hit a club and buy multiple drinks and it's as if they just drank water, that good chance it's not them.

I don’t have much experience with songs feeling shorter than they should be. I’m use to the type of clubs that sell dances in blocks time. For example, 10 minutes or 15 minutes or 30 minutes, etc. This is why I’ve rarely experienced dancers trying to over count songs.

That said, when I have noticed songs being shortened is when a club runs a 2 for 1. But i think the only reason they shorten them during 2 for 1’s is because it’s obviously a special.

There could be multiple reasons for a club cutting songs - one obvious reason could be to get PLs to buy more dances to get their fill - another reason could be dancers wanting to be on-stage as short-a-time as possible b/c they either don't like being on there to begin with or wanna spend more time on the floor making $$$, and thus the custies that buy dances get stiffed.

Thanks, Papi.

I have definitely switched up my strategy about tips and getting dances in clubs due to this.

First, I almost always spend the first 10-15 minutes in a new club timing songs. Since I am a musician, I can do this without a watch/phone by counting the number of bars played and doing some math in my head (There you go, flagooner! :p).

Next, I will only buy dances "per song" to do a test drive of a dancer, whether or not I'm looking for extras. I'll invest $20 to find out if I want more, then I buy a timed session. I've had plenty of deeply sensual sessions without extras that were quite memorable. Interesting note, I find that I get offered phone numbers and unsolicited (pun intended) requests to take a dancer OTC more often this way than a more aggressive approach. Sometimes, being a freshly-showered, funny, nice guy who isn't reeking with the stank of desperation wins the day.

Third, I very selectively make tips at the rail - only to get the attention of someone I'm interested in meeting. Note that if there's some PL who's throwing down bills like it's the Amazon rainforest, I won't tip at all.

In summary, I agree that the cure for songs cut short won't likely be complaining to club management. But the whole issue can be sidestepped by only buying timed sessions.

In many clubs with high dance-prices, it's probably not worth it to buy dances b/c of the high dance price, and low-ROI which includes shortened-songs.

Unfortunately for me, I like variety and don't like sticking to just one dancer and spending most/all my $$$ on just her - I like to sample and this can usually only be done by buying single-dances vs VIP - but fortunately for me the black clubs I hit the dance-price is lower to where I can afford to sample.

All you hethens need to cum in for confessions

Papi is the TUSCL expert on song length. Every time I've seen him, he has a stopwatch hanging on a chain around his neck.

I never negotiate per song and a lot of the options that the girls give in my market are time based (15-minutes, 30-minutes, etc) so the length of a song isn't really important.

While we're at it, how about we add:

Camera presence
Lap dance seating comfort
Square footage of the stage
Average time to get served a drink
Mean and median age of dancers and customers
Pee Troll presence
Music volume

Yes, I'm being facetious

^ don't forget we need ass measurements for those LDKers, give them also, average time to sticky pants, so they know how many dances they need to budget for.

^^^ Yes! Great ideas. I like where this is going.

lol clubber. maybe the clubs might get the hint if we all wear a stopwatch around our necks.

and i loose count of the songs when i get dazzled by the girl.

"a lot of the options that the girls give in my market are time based (15-minutes, 30-minutes, etc) so the length of a song isn't really important."

this is exactly what i'm use to. many clubs in virginia and north carolina are set up this way. the vast majority of the lap dances they sell are sold by TIME. and these dances that are sold by time START at 100 dollars or more. i guess the club figures this is the best way to maximize their profit. but IMO lap dances that start at 100 bucks or more seem like they wouldn't be easy to sell. seems like it would make things hard on the dancers

^ I wouldn't partake.