The End for Me

Good luck.

Good luck

Can't argue with that, knowing when to leave is a big part of life. Its not the best lifestyle thats for sure

Don't be a quitter.

Good to know your limits. Even better to find out the hobby isn't for you before ending up in too bad a place.

You'll be back. They always come back.

I consider doing the same thing all the time. I rationalize sticking around because I've managed to play this long without it affecting my retirement savings and other necessary expenses. But when I look at what I've spent, it's a lot. There have been so many good times and good memories. But the artificial wrapper it all comes in can take a toll.

"I'll probably stick around here on TUSCL since the threads are pretty entertaining"

Please do, and feel free to continue to post as well. We have lots of posters on here who don't actually go to strip clubs.

@DC9428

I did and we did have OTC fun. It wasn't anything sexual, it was normal civilian fun. It was one of the best nights I've had in a long long time. However it made me realize that no matter how much I liked this girl, I could never be with her. Too much emotional baggage and too many issues, I know for a fact she'd break my heart to pieces. She's a good friend, but I don't think it could advance beyond that without inevitable misery.

I was so hellbent on trying to win her heart I neglected everything else around me. I'm losing motivation in my career and I feel alienated from my friends. And although I absolutely love her company, I know every second I spend with her only makes me want her more. The more that happens I know the larger the emotional toll will be. And I have don't have the heart to just stop seeing her...

@wallanon

You're right. I wish the strip club was just mindless fun. The minute I met my ATF things took a turn. At first I thought it was good, but now I know it truly isn't. I'm already feeling depressed and I hope I'm not already in that "bad" place

Don't give up. You haven't been to TJHK yet.

This is the paradox I'm dealing with. Except I just want a girl to have fun with, no emotional connection. But if she doesn't have anything that I would want to connect with (even though I have zero exceptions that something "real" will emerge) then I lose interest quickly and move on to the next girl.

I'm well over a year into my first long-term thing. My expectations are in check and completely rational. My true wants, on the other hand, keep changing and emerging, as pointless as that might be. In a lot of ways spending a significant amount of time with someone who sees me for money is more fucked up than I expected it to be.

When she's around I have an amazing time. When she's not I kind of resent her for only being interested in my money, which is fucked up, because she's just doing what I approached her to do, and nothing more than that. I really don't think it's healthy, but having rational expectations that nothing "real" is going to happen keeps it under control. I tell myself I'm going to see this one through and then when it's over I'll be more casual in my clubbing. We'll see!

Good luck Vantablack. I hope you find a more fulfilling hobby to immerse yourself in. And let us all know if you do.

Your better off you are definetely a pl like myself when your atf is 2600 miles away

@ei8ht_ball

It's good that at least you know what she's after. It's very clear to you that you know where to draw the line. You have that mentality and self reminder that prevents you from falling in too deep. That same mindset allows you to move on easily too.

I don't have that. I'm too emotionally invested in a girl that I've met at the strip club. I have trouble letting things go. At first she was my favorite dancer. Then she became my friend. And now I want to take it to the next level. I don't know when to stop and that's why I feel like I need to distance myself, but I'm torn. I'm going to feel like shit regardless of which path I take. My mind is a giant swirl of lust, infatuation, confusion and depressoon.

Once you've found the key to your sexual fantasies, it's hard to give it up. But good luck if that's what you truly want.

@JohnSmith69

The problem is that it was never about sex. Sex was beyond the least of my priorities. I think that's part of the problem as to why it turned out the way it did

Strip clubs are not the problem, at best they are a symptom of the problem of the root cause - you seem to be trying/hoping to make a strip club something that it's not - as we say around here "a strip club is not a girlfriend supermarket" yet too many PLs seem to look at strip clubs as a solution to not being able to find a civvie S.O. and that is the proverbial "trying to fit a square-peg in a round-hole", it's not gonna fit/work no matter how much you try to force it.

Strip clubs are what they are and they're not the place to go looking for love or one's need for a relationship/girlfriend - if you can't, or are unwilling, to see SCs for what they are, then you're better of not wasting your $$$.

Best of luck. Ive been in this situation before. Sounds like you might be going to "transactional" experience type of clubs. These are clubs which specialize in making you feel like a king for 15 minutes or until what money you have burns out.
My advice if you ever return is to pick different times of the day or week to go. I used to be a late night SC goer, but have since changed to more of a daytime or sunday guy. While you won't see the same amount of knockouts vibe is a little more laid back and the experience is far more personable.

Strip clubs are not meant to be the solution to one's personal issues, at best they're a remedy to get one by.

IMO not going to strip clubs will likely not solve your problems and w/e it is you are feeling/missing, at best you will be saving $$$ by not going but likely your issues will still be there with nothing to replace w/e remedy strip clubs offer. Life isn't going to all of a sudden be wonderful once you stop SCing - it can be somewhat better, or actually somewhat worse w/o enjoying what SCs have to offer.

"I'm going to feel like shit regardless of which path I take."

If that's the case then you're right to stop going. You don't need to spend money to feel like shit, so stop spending it.

In a lot of ways it's better to be used for money by a stripper than a civilian. It's transparent, it's what they're there for, and you should be able to have fun without feeling taken advantage of because you offered it to her. Yet there's so much scheming and hustling going on that it doesn't always work out this way, which sucks.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable being emotionally attached to a stripper that I just knew in real life. It would be too real (or would it?). If anything, I like knowing for certain that what happens at the club is fake (or is it?).

It's healthy for all of us to take a break from time to time. But if you feel this way then a permanent hiatus is probably in your best interest.

@anislee +100000000000000000000000000000

The zona norte is the best cure for depression

Congratulations on reaching Phase 2 of your strip club experience. We all emotionally flame out at that point. Once you get your head on straight come back you will be better for it. Then you can go to phase 3 and it is fun if you take a more experienced and realistic mindset.

@ei8ht_ball

That's exactly it. Now that I know that her and I can be friends out in the real world, I keep wanting to escalate it. It's that same feeling that drives people to keep advancing in whatever it is they're doing. If we went from normal customer/provider to being able to meet outside the club not P4P, then that at least shows that it is real to some degree.

@DC9428

And yeah I get what you mean. It is pretty much all my fault. Like Papi said up there, I'm making strip clubs to be something that they aren't. However it is a bit too late for that since I'm already so heavily invested in my ATF. I think I expected too much out of her and now the frustration is catching up with me. Especially now that I know that whatever I am trying to achieve with her isn't plausible.

Btw, in TJHK you can, have a real gf relationship with the stripper, she'd love to have a future in the usa.

"If we went from normal customer/provider to being able to meet outside the club not P4P, then that at least shows that it is real to some degree."

It means she wants you to think it's real. How much of it actually is real you will never know, unless she does something to show you that none of it was real. The fact that you wrote "to some degree" at the end shows that you understand that ambiguity involved.

If one wants love or a relationship why not find a civilian - no matter how one may like to spin-it if one can't find the proper/desirable S.O. in civilian-world IMO why would one think/expect to find it in fake-ass strip club bizarro-world - if one can't pull it off in civvie world then IMO it's pie-in-the-sky dreaming to think/expect it's gonna happen in strip-club world.

And in the unlikely chance it does happen, I don't think the avg guy is wired to be able to have a "relationship" with most strippers and I don't think it would go as they forsee it.

i.e. if one can't pull it in the real world then it's not gonna happen in strip club world (with some rare exceptions) - it's business, 99.9% of these "faves" that "show us all this love" would cut all communication with us if they came into $$$ and no-longer needed us financially.

With the one girl you wanted, not just with whoever was willing, you got her to meet you to hang out as friends. That’s a class move and I’d think you’d feel pretty good about it. Now go find another one and do it again. Maybe not a stripper next time though. Although strippers are pretty great, so whatever.

I figure some of my favorites are still dancing in an alternate universe earth somewhere. I will probably never make it back there but who knows what will happen in the future? Some people say that time travel will become available to the public in only a few years or so. I do remember some strippers saying I have a clone or that someone looked just like me at the club. Possible evidence that I already went back in time to enjoy strip clubs the way they used to be.

Vantablack, maybe you should pursue and see where it takes you. If she's up for dating you normally, try it.

"if one can't find the proper/desirable S.O. in civilian-world IMO why would one think/expect to find it in fake-ass strip club bizarro-world"

This is the best way I've ever seen this ideology described. Unfortunately, what makes it seem achievable to some is that they can't find sex in the real world either but they did at the strip club, so why stop there? It's like when you hit all sevens on the slot machine and then you just know you can do it again.

Do I meet girls at strip clubs who I wold desire a real relationship with? Absolutely. Do I waste time thinking it might happen or even really truly want it to happen? Hell no. But wondering what it would be like to have a relationship with an attractive woman who theoretically only allows me to see her sweet side can be a lot fun. Watching the approach she uses in an attempt to convince me that it's real can also be a lot of fun. But actually going down that road would be pure torture.

Being in relationships with strippers isn't "pure torture" and its not all that bad but of course like with non strippers just depends on the girl. Even if she's a hoe, you can have a normal relationship. Its not that bad.

DC9428. just talk to girls anywhere you go. at the store, walking around your neighborhood, anywhere. I think grocery stores are great places to talk to girls. Just go up to girls who look at you.

I think strippers are more annoyed at being approached for something other than what they're there to do, unless they like you.

But you're right, relationships form accidentally a lot of times. It just happens. But I don't believe that paying for sex is the way to do it.

@PhatBoy99

Ideally that's what I wanted when I figured out that I had a legitimate attraction to her. However, I was blinded by my infatuation I didn't see all the issues that lay there before me. If I actually did date her, her lifestyle habits would most definitely strain our relationship. The smartest thing to do would be to just drop her out of my life and go back to my other hobbies. It would save me a lot of effort and emotions. However, I think I like this girl way too much to do. I like where I am with he right now, but I don't think it is possible to go to the next level without someone getting frustrated or hurt.

Vantablack - would it be rude of me to inquire about how much you're paying her? In this type of "relationship" I believe it to be an important detail, and how much she truly likes you (versus tolerates you) can often be inferred from the amount it takes for her to keep seeing you.

But If you don't want to share that's fine. I completely understand.

"I don't approach strippers for relationships. I approach them for sexual entertainment. I keep in the back of my mind, however, that a relationship could form organically over time if I see a girl that I'm compatible with and have a good connection with."

This sounds like a very healthy approach.

"I don't approach strippers for relationships. I approach them for sexual entertainment. I keep in the back of my mind, however, that a relationship could form organically over time if I see a girl that I'm compatible with and have a good connection with."

This sounds like a very healthy approach.

@DC9428

We are compatible in terms of interests. We love the same music, the same movies, similar tastes in humor and food. We get along very well. The only part where we differ is personal view on certain things. For example in her eyes, she doesn't think infidelity or massive drug/alcohol use is that big of an issue. However to me personally, I hate cheaters (I was cheated on before in the past) and I do not the support the substance abuse habit.

Pretty much lifestyle choice is where the line is drawn between the two of us. We've never had a disagreement over these kinds of things, but if we were dating I know it would be an issue.

@ei8ht_ball

I'm not paying her anything. We met outside the club with no money transaction involved. She agreed to meeting me outside to hang out. It was actually her idea to begin with. I mean I'll pay for her food here and there, but that is about it. In fact the other day when we went out she even insisted to pay.

The only time I spend money on her is in the club, but I don't go often enough or spend enough for it to make a significant impact on her income.

Probably the best choice for you. Good luck.

Vantablack, the most important thing here is how you make her feel and what happens when money is out of the picture. If you can do that, then there could be a chance.

@DC9428

I think you're right. I think we are compatible as friends, but nothing more. Although I wish there could be more. Her lifestyle choices aren't exactly the most stable nor are they the most healthy, but I'm hoping she comes to terms with that herself. My influence can only go so far. Until then I will try to keep and build whatever we already have

@Vantablack
You sound well-grounded and realistic. Best of luck to you. Good that you're getting out before it does further damage to your psyche and finances.
My clubbing essentially is limited to one annual trip each to Hong Kong in TJ and Allure Massage in Toronto. Overpriced U.S. clubs lack value to me, and I have no desire to enter a relationship with a stripper or sex worker because it's obvious where that path will lead, but to each his own.
If you're interested only in sex, like @countryman suggests, I'd recommend TJ. Great value and I don't believe there is any danger of falling for a girl 2,000 miles away (don't know your location) in another country.

@JAprufrock

I think I'm good as far as sex goes. Sex isn't a priority for me. It never was and I don't think it will be for a while. It's the intimate connection I seek. However in my situation, that doesn't fit anywhere in the equation. So until then the best thing I can do is be the best friend I can possibly be.

I didn't look back at your other posts but from what I remember you might have had an unrealistic idea of what was going on. We have all been there at some point or another in our SC career. Once you can come to terms with that you can have a great SC hobby. I wish you the best of luck.

A friendship is just as much of an investment as a romance. Do you really want to be friends with someone fucked up that you have feelings for?

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

Phatboy99 - definite troll account

TrickBot - trying to make this a trick only forum

Good luck! I hope you find something healthy and sustainable.

When I was about your age (maybe 20), my SC running buddy and I made a pact. Anytime either one of us hadn’t seen a woman naked in 30 days, we should both go to the club (or remind the aforementioned PL if he’s in denial) so as to 1) remember what a naked woman looks like and 2) to motivate the guy to hit the ground running (civvie dating).

I always thought that was a healthy way. It’s side entertainment (boobies and vajayjay!) but it was always something that supplemented civilian life, not a substitute.

I”m glad my running buddy noticed I was in a funk and needed a reboot. I’ve also done the same for him. It’s nice when your bros look out for each other like that.

@Vantablack. I'm careful not to love anything that can't love me back. I think the inverse can be unfulfilling.

@DC9428 posted: “Civilian girls are difficult to reach. Like, girls don't want to be approached unless they are doing something with the specific intention of being approached by guys, like in bars and clubs or dating apps. What this means, however, is that things don't happen organically as often because they aren't open to that. It also seems to me that civilian girls are always busy, they're constantly running from one thing to the next and would be annoyed by random guys trying to strike up conversations with them.”

Finally! That’s maybe the first excuse you’ve given so far that I agree with. What has always served me and my epiphany in my teens was to have an inventive mindset. If I had to break it down to the very core, it’s having an inventive mindset.

That’s more useful for than any specific advice, IME. I also don’t do any ROI on civilian dating, never have. I always worked backwards from the point with a goal (dating), then decided I would do whatever it takes and not be concerned if it’s worth it or worth the time, or whatever bullshit the MGTOW or MRA or PUA are crying over. To me, goring without, was never an option. When I saw football players dating girls, I knew whatever it was could not possibly take a lot of brain power. So with northing more than this paragraph to go on, I went out and invented what I could on the fly.

You have 200,000 years of gut instinct in you. use it!


@DC9428 posted “I don't ever see them looking at me.”

That’s a problem right there. As successful and you have been with sex with (admittedly?) drunken college women, I’d suspect you’d be successful enough with the opposite sex to at least have some of them checking you out from time to time.

I wonder if this is a case of you not noticing? Or maybe some way about body language what is off putting? Unless you look like a mutant, you should be doing better here!

Look at Orionsmith. He can’t keep the women from approaching him for sex or more.

I wish you luck!

Anyways, one thing you can try is to have sex with her. If you can't get a woman to do shit for you, change, give you money, whatever after you have sex with her, move on. But sex does it for a lot of them, especially if you sell her a dream with it

Thanks for everything guys. For all the responses and advice. I won't disappear from TUSCL. And I'll do my best to achieve what I can. Life is all about facing hard decisions and I am going to do exactly that. I never thought one person could have such a profound effect on me, but I think I can make something good of it.

IMO it's a good-thing you have TUSCL to give you feedback vs having to go at this by the seat of your pants - the strip club waters can be treacherous for the uninitiated

money and acceptable age are major factors. (not to mention celebrity attraction.)

@MisterWonderful

Do you mean in terms of what it takes for a dancer to tolerate one of her customers?

@DC9428 posted:
“Lol was that a roast?”

I dunno. Maybe. I think I’ve made you too much into a project for me. Part of this is right now I’m going through a rough patch and not find a job / work. Which is unusual for me, since I could always find new work in a day or 2 or at least 1 week. So I think I’m taking it out on you based on my frustrations in my own life. I think you can level with me on that. These hiring managers and HR ATS screening systems are the worst.

I’d love to get hiring back to a f2f or at least a phone call. This on-line shit is the fucking black hole.

If I’m roasting you it because I’m treating you like I used to treat Larryfishman, sensing the same frustrations. You’re right it needs to organic and one can’t over think it.


@DC9428 posted:
“I think the girls evaluate their choices, realize that the hot guys are already taken, look at me and think "he's cute enough, I guess I'll go with him."

nothing wrong with that. That and maybe all of the douche bags had already made their rounds. Frustrated her, and she’s more receptive to you. But I think you generally have it figured out.

I’ll ease off of you from now on. You seen to be into p4p as a solution. Nothing wrong with that. It does satisfy a need.