Fantasy v Reality

As long as you realize the reality of WHY the women are doing all that for you. They don't do it because they like you or think you're a stud. It's because you're paying good money, plain and simple. There are too many folks on this board that lose sight of that.

Yeah, there's no fantasy about her wiggling around on your lap, you playing with her pussy, her sucking your dick.

The fantasy part is that she enjoys it, and she's into you. Look how many guys here think the girls love when guys LDK, that they make strippers cum all the time, etc. The fantasy part is alive and well and an important part of the experience for most people. I imagine that the more that you're a "go in, take a girl to the back, pop, leave" guy, the less the fantasy part has any impact on you. Otherwise, it does, to some extent

We just went through this 6 months ago.

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Ha, my comments from that thread are more succinct:

To the extent that you wanted a blowjob, and got a blowjob, that's reality.

To the extent that she didn't behave as if she were disgusted by the entire act, and you in general, that's fantasy :)

I'm there for the reality, but I'm thankful for the fantasy LOL

From the viewpoint of a PL who goes on discussion boards to figure out the most favorable clubs/the best way to negotiate for what you want: fantasy is just romanticizing the whole thing.

From the viewpoint of a non-extras dancer when successfully getting ~$350+ from a single customer (make that number higher if there was extras), fantasy is super important.

Nicespice, can you explain your last paragraph? Do you mean it's super important for the girl attempting to get $350 or higher to sell the PL a fantasy?

When I refer to it as Fantasyland I mean that I like to get lost in the experience while in a club, allowing myself to believe that it is real. Personally, it elevates the pleasure. It's like role playing. It is just important to recognize that it is what it is when I walk out the doors or it would really fuck with me.

^^^^^Probably one of the realest posts I've ever seen you make.

20 years ago, it was fantasyland to me. I was too poor to spend the money for VIP. Now, I can afford to partake in the reality part of it.

When I think of referring to clubs as a 'fantasy', it's moreso for me as a venue to get away from the worries and stresses of real life for a momentary time with dancers who are willing to enhance said fantasy. Sure, there's nothing fake or dreamy about a girl grinding or sucking on your dick, but it does put your head in a great place that you may or may not traditionally experience with civilian women.

(... I promise that pun wasn't intended.)

You do all that and then you leave, and then you're back to reality.

“can you explain your last paragraph? Do you mean it's super important for the girl attempting to get $350 or higher to sell the PL a fantasy?”

Yep. There’s the off chance a dancer can just get along really well with a customer personally. And there’s no fantasy needed because both parties just genuinely click very well.

Ah hell, there was a customer for me personally who gave me way more than I asked for, because of that. And I was genuinely being myself. But then we started dating and we are still together over a year later. :p

But otherwise, it’s figuring out what a customer wants and being that girl. Ah hell, I’d say it’s important for lower amounts of money as well.

A guy wants a hot bitch and be a big shot? Sell to his ego.

A customer wants a nice girl, and only wants to give his money away if he feels like it’s going to a good purpose? Bring up college/children

A customer just wants to party and have fun? Be bubbly and outgoing (and either pretend to or actually get drunk)

It’s just to cast a wider net. Maybe it’s deceptive. But at the end of the day, it’s why a stripper is also called an “entertainer.”

It's a fantasy for some and not for others.

Thanks for the perspective, nicespice.

I was just wondering what you meant because the number you mentioned the dancer making is exactly the cost of an hour VIP for my favorite club, and usually what I get. But I don't usually fall for any fantasy. All I want is a girl with big boobs and a nice ass to let me grope and grind away till my heart (and another body part) is content. If that's her selling me a fantasy, sure, she got me then.

Fetishes are also it’s own category. If a PL likes cutesy girly Asians, send him my way!

I’ve also always wanted a foot fetish, because I’ve heard they are fantastic customers. But I’ve never attracted one, sadly. Maybe I should get pedicures more often.

^ It's the bunions.

^Darn!

Seems there are those that think they actually "have something special" with the dancer that's beyond the $$$-aspect, i.e. close-to if not a "legit" relationship.

Then there seems to be those that know it's a fake "relationship" but they enjoy the fake-relationship anyway and seem to treat the interaction as if she was an S.O. but know and accept it's not real.

Then there are those that just treat it like any other business relationship similar to going to a favorite diner and being friendly with the staff but it's not personal.

^ I can't decide if I'm the first one or the second one

@Papi, I'm in camp 2

fantasy is above my pay grade.
reality is where i am.

I have something special with both of my regulars: they both love me, can’t get enough of me.

The reality is what she does, she's willing to do.

The fantasy is what she does, she would do it willingly.

^ that should be a TUSCL tagline

Camp 3 here from Papi's list.

Yup it's reality, the fantasy part is here. Still, as some have mentioned I don't think there is a disgust feeling of these women doing what they do any more than the typical person might be disgusted with their job. Sure it is probably not their first choice but if it disgusts them they would find something better to do. I think the women who provide extras at least are more apt to have some desire to be promiscuous with strangers. The disgust may come in when someone completely unappealing wants to get intimate with them but nobody is forcing them to have to do anything with anyone - they could do air dances 24/7 if they want, it is still their choice.

Doc: IMO, strip clubs are labeled a fantasy world because your interactions/experiences in the club don't have a positive transfer to the "world" outside the clubs. Go to a non- strip club bar, and let me know how many hot young babes there will walk up to you and rub their topless, or naked bodies all over you. How about at the beach, the pool, the lake, or the mall ?

Minnow: Yeah, I know. But it doesn’t make it any less real when they do it at the strip club.

Some of y'all are in some Inception shit. You're in a fantasy but don't know it's a fantasy. And +1 to minnow - exactly

It's real if one sees it as P4P - it's fantasy if one sees it as anything else

It's real if one sees it as P4P - it's fantasy if one sees it as anything else

DoctorEvil... I think you're treating the term 'fantasy' too literally.

For the PL, the settings and the interactions are mostly fantasy. Or, 'theater' if you prefer. But, of course, the physical side of it is real(ish).

For the dancer, it's a job.

Online dating is about as fake as fake can get, dating in general is all a bunch of phoniness. Sugar dating, how real is that? When I’m at the club with either Beatrice or Jolanda, all that matters is I’m a man, she’s s woman and it’s time to start rubbing our bodies together. It’s pretty real and I’m pretty sure we both enjoy it.

^ fantasy - stop paying her and see how much she enjoys it

Every exchange in the club is a business transaction. She'll take anyone's money and she'll be nice to everyone because that's a part of her job. Any extras she does, its about money, not about feelings.

Now, can you form a real connection at the club? Yeah but a lot of factors come into play. I've done it a lot and to be honest sometimes Im not sure I like it because the more I play up my fucked upness the more it attracts them.

But if you want to know whether its real or fantasy ask yourself this. Would you get a girl like her at a bar, club, mall, beach whatever and would she fuck you right away for free? If the answer is no then....

This idea of strip club as fantasy is a relic. 30 years ago maybe so, but not anymore. Comments about it seem to persist mainly as criticism of the guys who go to the clubs but don’t want to fuck the strippers.

Can you elaborate on that. How isnt it a fantasy?

Sorry, I thought I was agreeing with you. PL goes to the beach to meet hot 20 year olds thinking eventually he’s going to date them... that’s a fantasy. PL goes to the strip club, with the right amount of money, whatever he’s looking for is probably attainable.

^ Thats been my experience as well, usually if you aren’t intimate first or second date, it ain’t happening.
But in most of the time at regular clubs, if you meet and connect pretty easily, you don’t have to go home alone.

Not really. The attention you get at a strip club is paid for. She's not going to act like she doesn't like you when you're paying or have paid, coz you're a customer.

At parties, regular clubs whatever she has no incentive to talk to you if she isn't interested.

In both scenarios, looks and attitude have a lot to do with it. Its really not about whether you're nice or a good person. The more fucked up you are but in control the more they like you

I agree with the others that the fantasy ends when you stop paying her, or if you met without a strip club being involved at all, etc. Best I'd say is the OP is describing alternate reality. But that's the same thing as fantasy.

It can still be a fantasy and you can still be paying to fuck her. While still a very real and tangible sex act, it's still a fantasy experience.

Otherwise you would do it out in the real world with real world constraints. Wouldn't you? That would be real.

I think I've settled on 'theater' as the most accurate term. Because you pay money to get in and you know that they're acting, but that doesn't stop you from appreciating a good performance.

Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy...
I think the fantasy aspect of SCing is a bigger deal than most PLs realize and they are willing to pay for it. The woman herself is largely a fantasy. IRL, you likely wouldn't be in such an intimate situations with such a hottie.

In my case, fantasy or not, i really value the real "moments", which is what real life is made of. Does paying for it afterwards make it not real? For many, the holy grail is free sex with a hot stripper. Even if a "relationship" with a stripper progressed to the point that she was mentally willing to do that with you, if she had any business sense at all she wouldn't because she would forgo potentially thousands of dollars a year from monetizing essentially the same experience. If you think about it, often the "losers" she's fucking for free in real life couldn't pay her much for it even if she wanted them to. So you might never really know how she really feels about it. That is if you wanted to know. Probably it's better not to know, ignorance being bliss and all...

The girls I know who do it, look at their customers as an ego boost. Girls compete and get jealous over who gets the most or best paying customers. But a lot of times, the girls who have to do the most with guys get jealous of those who don't have to put out to make good money.

At around $1000 a pop, its definitely worth it for them. But the experience is followed by very long showers, getting really fucked up, going to a spa or just something they view as "cleansing" of what they just did. Sometimes it makes it hard for them to have sex with men they actually like and to open up to men. Ive had side bitches who wouldn't let me touch them after hoeing.

I think its one thing for the trick and another for the hoe.

But I agree, the act may be real but the experience is a fantasy.

When i say fantasy, i probably actually mean fantasy realization. A PL may fantasize or dream about being with a particular attractive woman and doing certain things with or to her. Many of these things can be realized in the SC or at least to a certain extent and only in the SC unless it goes OTC. Is that enough? For many PLs it is and then some.

But why do PLs get upset about it? Why do they have to say, no this isn't fantasy, this is real. Why should it matter? It shouldn't but apparently it does. Otherwise we wouldn't get threads about "I have seen comments about strip clubs being a “fantasy” world. I don’t understand this point of view."

I don't get upset. I understand and accept that it is largely fantasy and paid fantasy at that. Kind of like renting an exotic supercar for a day and enjoying the "fantasy" for a relatively small price when you can't afford to own one outright and may not even want to even if you could. Not a perfect analogy, but a decent working one.

so maybe some of us have our thoughts backwards. the 'fantasy' i have is 'reality' at a strip club. the 'reality' of buying the attention of a fantasy girl.
and 'reality' outside the club is i am too old and lack sufficient funds for my preferred civies.

Perhaps SCing is more of a "fake reality"

:)

But do any of you actually give a fuck about the girls? Ever go out with a girl and have her take 2 months before she can be intimate with you coz of the trauma inflicted by her tricks? Ever just hold someone who felt too dirty coz of what she just did? Who just wants to get high and go shopping to forget and get rid of the dirty money she just made? No matter what anyone says, hoeing has negative impacts. Ive never seen a hoe who was doing well mentally

I'm touched with with this post phatboy. the soft side.

Its true though, that shit fucks with them. If you know them well enough and they trust you, you end up seeing it. Its also why there is so little respect for tricks.

Idk. Stripping has helped me big time in social intelligence. And also in setting boundaries (I used to be terrible at that before dancing and I was in terribly controlling relationships). Sure, sometimes the customers can annoy me, but even then I have to remember that most of my really frustrating shifts was on me, not them.

"I find them fun and edgy"

You forgot to mention addicted and emotionally damaged.

Well, its not just fantasy if you can make it work like that in your real life.

FWIW, in the organization I am building, it will be like that in real life. Better than any strip club.

SJG

Mason
https://www.allmusic.com/album/harbour-m…

1971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyeJk5W…

For something to be real, it has to be accepted as real by both parties involved. The experience you have isn't the one she has

As I see it, the challenge is in how to create strip club aesthetics, the dolled up hotties, parading around in little or nothing besides high heels and makeup, and offering all they've got, in your f2f life.

FWIW, in the organization I am building you will be getting this 365 days per year.

SJG

Carmen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx4ImMQW…

@phatboy99 posted: "But do any of you actually give a fuck about the girls?"

I know I do. I'm probably not alone. I've read about some of the shit that messes up the dancers (like 2 way contact and all the groping and the sex). Reading about them getting PTSD from the groping and it affecting their relationships or mental well-being horrified me. I try to treat the dancers like I'd want someone to treat someone special to me. She's someone else's daughter, wife, GF, or mother.

Maybe that's a little silly for a SC board like this. Sometimes I wish I'd compartmentalize it better like @twentyfive or @rickdugan do. They have children yet they do this. Countless others are like that, too. The explanation, though rational, is you're allowed to treat your family better. Yet they would rip the PLs tongue out through his throat if it was their daughter -- as would I. It's not healthy for me to be this bleeding heart about strangers (dancers). I do however think about the dancers and always treat them fairly as they deserve.

Nice touching post, @phatboy99.

Treat them as civilians, no different from how you would treat any other woman. Don't look at it like they are selling services.

And select the one you want to be waking up in the mornings with.

SJG

Carmen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h-fP4zS…

The fantasy is in the women parading around in high heels and makeup. If the mileage is high enough and you have $$, then it is no longer just a fantasy.

SJG

Phatboy99 that is a pretty poignant post.

However, what's the solution? You asked if we give a fuck about the girls. My answer is, I care about them as much as I'd care about any person I'd meet. I wouldn't wish anything bad on anyone. That said, they chose to work in a club. A club that allows groping, some clubs even more. So what are we supposed to do, not go to clubs? Wouldn't that just fuck up the girls money? You called it dirty money, yet they return week after week to make it, right?

I'm curious, what do you suppose we PLs do?

^^^^ select the girl you want to be waking up with in the mornings. Approach her yourself, and always keep your ultimate objective in mind.

SJG

I'd actually like a response from @Phatboy99. SJG your answer doesn't address any of the things that Phatboy mentioned in his post about the PTSD dancers suffer from doing their job.

Treat them as you would like to be treated.

But also, the over all results are better if you select the one you want to be waking up in the mornings with.

SJG

@TFP,
That's one solution. But as you analyzed, it's not a good solution, since it messes with her money and like you said, she willing chose to work there.

My solution, albeit not a better solution, was to buy dances but just sit on my hands or keep my hands to the side. Kind of dumb. and what monger or pervert does that?? Yet I did for a while. Stupid fucking SJW I as acting.

Ultimately I realized that's no solution. Like you said, they chose to work there. And whether or not the club allows it, I now do grope or touch if she allows it.

IRL Dancer feedback ranged from:
such a gentleman <3
.to.
are you sure you're enjoying yourself?
.to.
i dont give a fucking shit
.to.
treat me like a whore, c'mon

^^ there's my answer. Silly me.

IRL Dancer feedback ranged from:
such a gentleman
.to.
aren't you enjoying yourself?
.to.
i dont give a shit
.to.
treat me like a whore, c'mon!

"But do any of you actually give a fuck about the girls?" --phatboy

I know for a fact I care more about my ATF than she does about me... and I'm fine with that.

Thanks Dominic, for an answer that actually addressed the concerns I mentioned.

The 'no touch' solution IMO is a terrible idea. If every strip club were an air dance, hands by the side type place I could only imagine the decline in the popularity of strip clubs. I for one would never set foot in one ever again if that happened. And I suspect I wouldn't be alone, so once again that's fucking with a lot of girls' money.

"Treat them as you would like to be treated." sjg

sounds good in theory, not always best in practice. I say treat them how and who you want them to be.... with the caveat of being within their limits/comfort level. The most important is building that comfort.

I don't get the point of seeing someone for a long time when they only see you coz you pay them.

^^^^^But that's what a strip club is, pay money to get dances, contact, and time with a beautiful woman. Are you saying patrons should keep seeing different dancers and not the same one? Because a lot of dancers actually like having regulars for steady income. And the patrons like seeing the same girl because of the understood relationship and mileage.

You might not get the point, but both patrons and dancers do. So what's the problem?

I get the point of it, and I think its great for dancers. I don't think its great for the customer. I wouldn't be able to do it. Just going to the club and spending money on someone I know I won't get anything real from. Say you see her for a year, you spend so much money on her and for nothing.

you can easily spend it on a side bitch.

No problem, @TFP. I understand. I, too, and waiting to hear @phatboy99's reply and possible solution. But after 2 1/2 years of pondering this Henry David Thoreau style On Walden Pond, I've found my solution. Grope and maybe eventually Sex is the only answer that makes sense.

It's a hazard of the job, she's a free agent, and that's why it pays what it pays. It's also why we're there.

I don’t need any customer to care about me (and would prefer they don’t unless they are spending several hundred dollars to do so)

I just want them to respect my boundaries, respect my time, and pay me fairly.

I love strippers but I can't have a P4P or customer relationship with one.

Phatboy99 you posted " Say you see her for a year, you spend so much money on her and for nothing."

What do you mean, nothing? Each time a guy goes to see a dancer in a club he's getting some kind of physical contact and good company for whatever length of time he pays for. For a lot of guys, that's all they want. To be able to have physical contact with a hot, usually much younger girl and then walk out with no strings attached.

Phatboy I see why you and SJG agree with each other all the time. Your MO is pretty much the same. You go to strip clubs in hopes of finding a girlfriend or an extended OTC type of affair. Hey if that's what you're looking for no one's stopping you. For you Phatboy it's probably easier. You sound like a younger guy and therefore attracting one of these young girls is easier for you. Not gonna comment on SJG's success rate in the club.

But for a lot of older guys, it's not feasible to go to the club looking for a girlfriend. More than likely a girl wants a boyfriend who is closer to her age, not twice or even more. And honestly most of these guys aren't looking for a girlfriend anyway. A lot of guys are married and still visit the club simply because they want company from a younger hotter woman than their wife. Thats the beauty of strip clubs. It's totally possible for a price. And once they walk out the club, the experience is over, just like they want. Not the same as dealing with a side bitch, who commands more time than you might be able to give AND presents a much bigger chance of getting you caught up with your main chick.

Phatboy99 you said you wouldn't want that type of customer/P4P relationship. Nothing wrong with that. But I hope you realize that same P4P/customer relationship is what keeps ALL clubs (including the one your girl dances at) in business and making money.

^TFP basically summarized all that needs to be said in this thread. Every man wants something different.

I come to the club looking for an OTC relationship. Most people may not agree with it, but everyone has their reasons for going. Whether or not you make it a part of your reality is up to you.

TFP

That's a really interesting perspective. I never thought of it that way. But it makes a lot of sense. If the guy feels satisfied I guess its worth it.

Not every girl has to resort to P4P. Smart ones realize that its about doing the least amount of work for the most $$$. They learn to tease and play with guys' feelings, whether just lust or more. How to get guys to buy more dances. Girls who end up doing P4P usually get really jealous of the ones who don't have to. I'm not completely knocking their hustle, some can make $$$$ doing it, but I've never known a girl whose head didn't get fucked up by it eventually.

Ive dated hoes before, honestly stayed with her for the money. In her personal life, she wasnt very sexual. It took her over a month to kiss me and another month before she'd have sex with me. We were both 17. She was as fucked up as she was beautiful.

I started going to strip clubs coz girls I knew started working there. For a lot of them it was their first job after high school. It was just like going to see a friend at work. Then you just end up hooking up...

After a while, it just became a habit and I treat the girls Im attracted to like I do the girls I know who work there. It has always worked for me. Then one thing led to another, sometimes I offer them management services or drugs. Some accept, some just want to hook up.

I go for young Latinas or young light skin black girls and it usually works. Haven't been rejected much really. I think the key is to relate to them on a certain level and fill a void they have.