Why is that the first thing we tell our children is to become SOMETHING, but the last thing we tell them is to be themselves, when that is who they were born and will die as???
While being yourself in a profession isn't always possible , it certainly is to a greater extent than most people realize
The purpose of a career shouldn't cause you to become a slave..but rather IT should become a slave to your greatness
Nicole1994 has officiAlly exited the post
Right .
I'm getting an education cuz its my passion
But I know all ppl dont think like that that
The way Deleuze and Guattari explain it in Anti-Oedipus is that the generational conflict is always Interest versus Desire.
The parents will always talk about things to gain position, advancing a bourgeoisie interest. Job, bank account, college degree.
Where as an adolescent will be more focused on desire, a car, a loan, and boyfriend / girlfriend.
But what the parent does not understand is that desire and interest can never really be separated, making an image and having original insights and creativity are important in everything you do.
The path the parent is trying to force is living death, people doing what they are supposed to do. In the Parceval Myth, this is known as the wasteland, a kind of spiritual sickness.
We have people who fight back, but usually it is with drugs and alcohol. That is not effective resistance.
We need people who will fight back clean and sober, and do it using all available means, like legal means, like everything. Most child abuse is psychological, and justified as being for the child's own good, and pertains to the self-reliance ethic, a completely bogus ethic.
Anyway, we really all have to forge our own path in this world. Parents that are walking dead are not any help.
Real good book: amazon.com
SJG
A Momentous TUSCL EVENT, and now my recommendation for Deja Vu tuscl.net
Who is a PL tuscl.net
TJ Chicas, incontrovertible proof of the power of the front room makeout session tuscl.net
I’m not too sure what your background is. But for people in general, the “easier” your upbringing and social class, the easier it is to make decisions based on self-actualization rather than just simply paying bills.
I could also go into a larger rant that a lot of “needs” are really just advertising nonsense. But I won’t.
However, not everyone has the privilege to make decisions like that. For me, I just have that privilege to some extent because I have nice tiddies. :)
My first thought when reading this thread were atheist parents telling their kids to be good and Santa Claus may pay them a visit for Christmas. It would be promoting fake beliefs because the fantasy was enjoyable when the parent was a kid. Makes me wonder how many atheist parents instruct their kids there is no Santa Claus, Easter bunny, or tooth fairy and try to use logic and reason to teach their kids. I suppose the Vulcan way is not common.
We definitely don't need life advice from a college sophomore who probably has never had a full time job. So... again you're talking out of your ass and making yourself look like a twat again.
I'm officially eliciting this post.
I honestly don't know if I mean if I say I hate to say it... but in most the world a beautiful woman has life by the balls.
*exciting
*eggsiting
*exiting oops silly me
*exiting oops silly me
Wait now I'm buck in
*bick
*back
Ok now officially out
Mic drop
I think pistola has a crush on you, Nicole.
^bahahaha hell naw. I'd rather try to get in your pants than hers given the choice but I ain't about the long distance online thing so sorry to break your heart shawty
I'm going to bed. good night.
Sleep well
Getting educated in giving blow jobs is always a good passion Nicole ;)
Ugh. I've been up for a fucking hour because my smoke detector has a glitch and keeps beeping loudly. And there are two OTHER smoke detectors in two other rooms of my place, so the main one in the living room keeps setting the others off.
I've gotten the others to shut the fuck up, because I can stand on a chair and reach them, but my living room has vaulted ceilings so I can't even reach it by standing on a chair. And apparently being precluded from having the ability to sleep because of a loud noise isn't an emergency, so the maintenance guys won't be out for several hours. Yay.
FML.
I guess the silver lining is that at least it's the the carbon monoxide detector going off.
I wish I had a ladder. Gonna watch Casino now, since I don't want to go to sleep and be startled awake again.
Not* lol at least it's NOT the carbon monoxide detectors going off. I don't want to get sick and/or die.
^Use a broomstick just knock it off the cover and poke at the battery till it falls off.
What's a smoke detector?
That thing that is a good idea in theory, but in reality is a piece of crap. And I suspect may be useless in the event of an actual fire.
Honorable mention to my former apartment. I tried to cook food at a normal temperature. That triggered the alarm and woke up my roommates at 3am. And the food wasn’t even burning at all.
A few weeks later, my roommate raged at the thing and ripped the damn thing out.
nice spice's comment includes a significant counter point...will respond when I fet my laptop...might even msg her instead so I can guarantee she seems my comment. Just cuz the subject of fulfilling ur purpose and. Defining ur career as opposed to letting it define u is very important
What does nina's incident have to do with this thread ...
It is completely irrelevant to the subject of.this thread.as a result, just interesting that she commented on this thread regaeding that incident
But umm ok whatever lol...
Regarding that incident **
Ok bye
Nina, Casino is in my top 5. Great choice. Maybe u need to hit the blunts outside then the smoke detector won't go off lol
"^Use a broomstick just knock it off the cover and poke at the battery till it falls off."
I did, it wouldn't budge.
"A few weeks later, my roommate raged at the thing and ripped the damn thing out."
I almost did that with the broomstick (well, the Swiffer stick), when I saw it was not coming down. I was just gonna smash it with the stick unless it shut up but it ended up shutting up on its own.
"Nina, Casino is in my top 5. Great choice. Maybe u need to hit the blunts outside then the smoke detector won't go off lol"
Lol, that's the fucked up thing. It has never gone off from me smoking. Instead it waits until I'm sound asleep then wakes me up and scares the shit out of me.
Pistola - it's was actually my first time watching it btw!
^whhhhhatttt? Its a masterpiece and all true. They didn't really embellish much including down to how Spilatro (pesci) acted. I liked it better than Goodfellas and Godfather but JMO.
And funny how things alwsys go to shit when you fuck your best mates gal...lol
I know! I had actually paused it (Netflix) so I could go to sleep at a reasonable hour. When my smoke alarms were being lil bitches and waking me up, I said fuck it and watched the rest! It was very good.
When I tell some customers my fave movies, a lot of them have asked if I'd seen Casino, and I hadn't. They always said they think I'd like it, based on other films I like.
I'm going to cut this quote down to just the parts I want to speak to. So above nicespice wrote:
"...But for people in general, the “easier” your upbringing and social class, the easier it is to make decisions based on self-actualization rather than just simply paying bills.
However, not everyone has the privilege to make decisions like that. ..."
You will often hear people saying things like this. Far as I have ever been able to tell, it is all nonsense.
What oppresses people is not low socio economic standing, its lack of defenses against herd think.
So if someone grew up rich, they are very limited in the things they can do because such a high level of income is being set as the minimum. And of someone grew up poor then most anything they do will be fine.
The issue is that the middle-class is the first large group which has a choice in how they live. And this does not mean middle income, as being middle-class is a way of thinking. Its a reactionary identification system. In a country like the US, it is not clear that there has ever been anyone who is not middle class.
But some support the interests of the middle-class, and some oppose them.
That people have to work to pay bills is patent nonsense. People live with next to nothing, or with nothing.
What people are being controlled by are social expectations.
So a primary characteristic of the middle-class, as always explained by Sartre and de Beauvoir, is that the middle-class lives in Bad Faith. That is they do not want to admit that they have choices.
So they live to have something to hide behind. They don't want to take responsibility for the choices they have made.
And so talking about "self-actualization" as nicespice does is merely to belittle the concept. Everyone lives to "self-actualize" whether they admit it to themselves or not.
The real issue then is are you living in Good Faith, the Authentic Life, or are you living in Bad Faith?
SJG
Farm 1971 youtube.com
Booker T & The MGs - Green Onions LIVE youtube.com
“What oppresses people is not low socio economic standing, its lack of defenses against herd think.”
Me personally: I have an eccentric personality and I definitely do not fall prey to “herd think”. When I find a social group/workplace culture/etc and figure out what the concensus view is on something, I immediately start looking for the holes and questing it.
And I have always despised the idea of teamwork or conformity. It’s one of the reasons I dropped out of college, one three hour course away from a math degree, and started stripping.
That being said, I do not expect the world to follow my viewpoints on things. People like me (and you) also have to face trade offs like loneliness and mental instability.
Is it worth it? In my opinion, yes. But I couldn’t ever mock somebody else (who are most people) who want to belong somewhere and be a part of something.
"And funny how things alwsys go to shit when you fuck your best mates gal...lol"
I knew he was going to end up being a huge problem. It was so obvious.
And I disagree that the rich are more restricted in what they can do. The ones who choose to be in the public eye are , certainly. But otherwise, they have a lot of leeway.
And as far as parents go, the things they advise are very much based on their own viewpoint but also how much resources they have.
I’ll go off with a random ass example. Taylor Swift (a pop singer). One major reason she was able to get where she was because her parents hardcore help her with her career. They moved where they needed to be to get her going and devoted a lot of time to her. It was a risk and it turned out well for the entire family. But can you expect all parents to do the same thing?
@nicedpice + 20 you are right reality can be a piece of crap! Work is work to me if your happy with the money the rest don't matter! Liking your profession is awesome but does not pay the bills money does!
Nicole sounds like she hasn't really worked at a job yet. When you work at a job you need to advance the goals of the organization and provide value to the people paying you moreso than whatever your passions are. Though there is some wiggle room.
Passion drives success through motivation and how bad you want it. Otherwise, yeah, it's kind of soulless (or like a dugan OTC encounter).
@Mark Twain once said, The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
To me, it sounds like her first sentence is quoting Twain.
Now Nicole, being in school and making it your passion is commendable. It would be MORE commendable, if you were footing the bill yourself instead of someone else. ;) That's also assuming that you're using school to PREPARE you to a lifetime of learning and growth rather than a place to hidE out for few years to DELAY getting a JOB while you frolic.
Im happy to be preparing myself in school for a legal career rooted in delaing with federal or state legislation..and that career is my passion.
Thankfully my tuition is free.
However, I realize that not everyone has the privilege of making tjeor career a passion..
But I think if more of what I siad is preached , it would be significantly beneficial bc while not everyone can pursue their passion, there are definitely more people who could do it if they started thinking like this .
Also, thinking like this would at encourage people to first pursue something meaningful or at least think about it before deciding on automatically applying for a job which is unfulfilling. ..such peoople can apply for unfulfilling jobs, but only after at least making an attempt to pursue their passion, think about what it is, find a realistic way to get there , and then overcome difficulties to get there. While some people apply to unfulling jobs only upon realizing that working for their passion is not possible, there are many people who don't.
Due to my logical nature, I would never ask for the impossible , which is that everyone do work that fulfills them . rather, what I would expect of this post is that if we preached this in schools, underprivileged communities, and universities to a larger extent, then more people would be able to reach their full potential, bc awareness is the first step and many people are not fully aware of this
Nicole, isn't this your first week of classes for Fall semester? What classes are you taking? Hope they are all ones you're passionate about.
Best of luck!
^sweet baby jesus football season and Nictard94 off and busy with school. Looks like a good fall is shaping up!
Speaking of pursuing passion rather than applying for unfulfilling jobs. Jesus Age Christ! Employers are already getting the memo. They don't seem to what to hire you even if you are qualified (in your mind, not theirs) or could do the work, or having (what I believe to be) transferable skills. It seems they are (1) looking for the perfect match, like if this were dating and we're looking to get married. Jesus Age Christ. It really seems to be skills+chemistry, just like dating, or nor hire. Skills but no chemistry? No hire. It never seemed to be like this, but ok, I can roll with it. It also seems (2) that we want you to be enthusiastic about the job. It's like how I imagine White-polyester-suit-wearing-master of same-date-OTC expects when he expects his dancers to fuck him enthusiastically enough and swallow up every last drop of cum. Fortunately, this is the easiest to fake or present. So, um, yeah, it helps things if I'm actually passionate about the job.
Just a couple observations.
Nicespice wrote:
"Me personally: I have an eccentric personality and I definitely do not fall prey to “herd think”. When I find a social group/workplace culture/etc and figure out what the concensus view is on something, I immediately start looking for the holes and questing it. "
Well obviously this is not true, as you are trivializing Nichole's OP, "...Why is that the first thing we tell our children is to become SOMETHING, but the last thing we tell them is to be themselves..."
So you do not really mean what you say. If you meant what you said, then you would be the strongest supporter of those who are finding conflict on the horizon and know that they first and foremost need to be themselves.
And then if you meant what you said, even understood the ramifications of what you are saying, then you would not be rejecting, you would be supporting what I said in my first post, responding to Nichole.
"But what the parent does not understand is that desire and interest can never really be separated, making an image and having original insights and creativity are important in everything you do."
Nicespice also wrote, "And I disagree that the rich are more restricted in what they can do. The ones who choose to be in the public eye are , certainly. But otherwise, they have a lot of leeway."
I do not agree with this at all. Most everybody, especially the rich who have parents who are still married, have to face parental expectations. And these parents are living in Bad Faith, not living up to their own values. So the box which the rich young adult has been painted into is extremely small. And I believe that it is this kind of issue which Nicole is posting about.
I cite as an example here Sr. Helen Prejean, coming from a very well off family, and having then only one escape route, a celibate religious vocation. Even though Catholicism has always presented itself as pitched at the poor, a very high portion of religious vocations are coming from the well off, seeking and escape route. And it has always been like this.
Now I know locally a very promintent attorney, who's son, likely gay, has rejected 4 year college and instead become a cook. He is very happy. But this attorney mother is rare, she comments on how different her son is from herself. She is willing to learn from her children.
This idea is advanced by Rollo May, and you also see somthing of this in the Book of Tobit, and the Jesuit Order calling that the book of family, as they see in it a stupid senile idiot of a father, but in the end he is able to learn from his son. I tell you this is rare. Usually people like that just get more and more senile until they really are asking people to kill them every time they open their mouth.
In British Columbia one would just call Trevor Todd in Vancouver. He will send someone out once to talk to senile suicidal testators. If that does not work, then he files under the Wills Variation Act. Then under BC law, the more the testators fight it, the more they get squashed. That is how it works in BC.
In the US, we have nothing like that. Among nations we are very backwards in this area. In Civil Law Countries there is no reason to even need a lawyer to solve the problem. The will is just automatically treated like toilet paper.
So there is usually going to be a serious conflict between parents who do not live up to their own values and them trying to harm their children, even having had children just so that they could do this, and a child who sees what is wrong with this, and tries to protect themselves.
And as is well known in child protection circles, the more money the parents have, the harder it is to protect the child.
Poor people do not hire their own doctors, but the well off do.
Public service doctors comply with mandatory reporting, but private practice doctors would not be in business if they complied with this. So it is the doctor's government issued license which allows the child abuse to continue. The child will be diagnosed with something and put on something, more often than not.
The rich are very powerful, and the child has few resources available.
Paul Mones, a very interesting man, and I got to shake his hand in front of the court house. amazon.com
Reply to Dominic77 will be coming
SJG
Dominic77, you have a serious problem, and even saying that, you are still a piece of crap.
Maybe you know people who would put up with you face 2 face, but I certainly would not.
You have no business trying to trivialize what Nichole is saying.
And know what, good employers do not hire job seekers, they do not hire people like you.
Job seekers do not bring much to the party. And if one is not the big boss, a job seeker will destroy your own reputation if you hire them.
You hire team members, people who being their own passion and inner motivate to the game.
Dominic, usually I do not lecture to people or chastise them in such personal areas. But you are going to be an exception.
In most human endeavors it is not the ones who have the skills, it is the one who manipulate the image, who get the rewards. And this I believe is the injustice you have been subjected to, which has led to your own frustration.
But do you fight back, no you collaborate.
You have injected yourself with the poison of Republicanism, often presented as Libertarianism.
Then you have injected yourself with the poison of TUSCL buffons, by posting personal stuff on this board. I have not read such and still am not going to.
Then you continued with the poison of financial speculators.
And then further with the poison of motivationalists, wasn't Anthony Robbins?
So you are mainlining at least 4 types of poison. You seem like a person who has skills. But you have been frustrated, and you are not fighting back, you are collaborating with the oppressors.
If I knew that you had power over other people, I would intercede and put a stop to it.
SJG
Jeff Healey - All Along The Watchtower youtube.com
@SJG
“Well obviously this is not true, as you are trivializing Nichole's OP, "
“Trivialize” is a strong word there. Nicole doesn’t exactly bite her tongue whenever anyone uses a negative tone with her. I was disagreeing and she knew that too, which is why she was also respectful when replying.
“If you meant what you said, then you would be the strongest supporter of those who are finding conflict on the horizon and know that they first and foremost need to be themselves.”
No, I still mean what I say. People join a “heard” for lots of reasons. Sure, sometimes it’s because they don’t really have their own personal convictions and the join the nearest convenient one. But other times, it’s because they want to be part of something bigger than themselves.
Heard mentality is separate from what Nicole was talking about, but I’ll give more examples of why there’s nothing much wrong with a “heard”
Nicole’s career ambitions is still a form of joining a “heard”—The heard of politics.
Your organization that you’re building would be attracting a “heard” of people who agree with with you.
"original insights and creativity are important in everything you do."
It’s impossible to be original and creative in EVERYTHING you do. You can definitely be that way with the things in life you’re interested in, but not in everything. There’s too many things in this world for that.
You can be an amazing writer. You can be amazing at buying fashionable clothes. You can be amazing at counceling someone. You can be amazing at art. You can be amazing at making software. ...and the list goes on and on
“The rich are very powerful, and the child has few resources available.”
This and a bunch of stuff you said before this, is based off the idea that rich American parents are inherently cruel and controlling towards their children, and use their wealth and power to avoid being accountable towards their abuse.
Most rich people love their children just as much as any other parent would. And the child gets more resources because...well why wouldn’t you want to provide more opportunities to your progeny if you can?
@Nicole
“Thankfully my tuition is free.”
That is awesome. I’m amazed that you’re allowed to take as many classes that you’re able to. Most scholarships that I know have have a ton of caveats attached to them related to # of hours taken and also graduate on time. But if you can get away with it, I don’t see why the heck not to take more classes.
“Also, thinking like this would at encourage people to first pursue something meaningful or at least think about it before deciding on automatically applying for a job which is unfulfilling.”
Children’s fictional media is already full of messages related to “believe in yourself”, “overcome adversity”, and “dare to be different”
I think they are already getting the message. Even poor children watch Disney.
The only thing I can think to go further is maybe an education in financial literacy. Or goal setting. Or something like that. To make it easier to make their dreams a reality.
Or even more importantly, job shadowing opportunites. So that they even learn what is even out there to go for.
The mean thing I have against this post, is the idea that one needs a job or career that is a “dream job” to have a fulfilling life. For certain personalities, this is true. But there’s many other values another person can have for a life to be rich and meaningful.
@dominic77
I agree with the soulmate view that employers have.
Thank freaking god strip club managers don’t give two shits about “culture fit” or “where will you be in the next five years”.
"This and a bunch of stuff you said before this, is based off the idea that rich American parents are inherently cruel and controlling towards their children, and use their wealth and power to avoid being accountable towards their abuse. "
Well this is true. What it comes down to is that the middle class lives in bad faith, they don't live up to their own values, they don't admit that they have choices, and from this need to hide from themselves, they have children.
Nicole is going to law school and she will be able to do great things. She understands what the counter forces are and in making her post she is standing up to them. I am not worried about her.
But you nicespice still seem to see this as only applying to those of privilege. So yes you are trivializing the OP.
You don't understand what soul death is, and then you project this ignorance out onto the world.
SJG
@SJG
You also seem to be implying that having children is a way to escape having a meaningful life. Are you saying it’s impossible to have children while also having a meaningful life?
I’m also still skeptical on your claims on how parents, rich or middle class, treat their children. But considering the only thing I have “parenting” knowledge of is my dog, I’ll back off on that. Other board members can explain that much better.
And no, not only the privileged can do great things.
But, for example, Nicole doesn’t have to worry about the pressure of finding a job right away if her tuition is payed for. She is still getting the bill footed for, even if it’s not directly her parents.
Her situation would be different if she had to worry about that.
I’m not the sentimental type, so threats of soul death don’t scare me.
Obviously it’s best to avoid a job that creates high stress levels and ruins health. That’s a real possibility out there in the job market. But you don’t need a “fulfilling” job to avoid that.
Good thing my 17 children don’t get in the way of a fulfilling life for me. They and all the baby momma know better than to bother me with that shit.
I’m having a very meaningful life hustling. :)
"You also seem to be implying that having children is a way to escape having a meaningful life."
For most people it is a way of escaping from having an authentic life, that is, avoiding facing the fact that you do have choices to make. For the vast majority of people the decision to have children is not an authentic choice.
Well, going back to my first reply to the OP, there is a built in tension. Sometimes there will be things which lessen it. But suffice to say, the only reason for which the middle-class family exists is to exploit and abuse children.
Nichole may not be willing to go along with this, but I feel that in her OP she was feeling it.
Nichole is getting her tuition paid, this is how it should be, not some special privilege.
Threats of soul death? You are denigrating our OP, in how you trivialize the issues they are facing. Nichole is able to talk about it, and that is good. Many others can't, but it does effect them, the negative pressure and judgement which they are being subjected to.
Again, trivialization, talking about "fulfilling" jobs, reducing it to just an emotional feeling, rather than simply living up to one's values, to what one feels their role in this world is. And this is never optional.
Such trivialization is not okay.
An example:
"As far as marriage is concerned, the nuclear family is damaging to both partners, especially the woman. Marriage, like any other authentic choice, must be chosen actively and at all times or else it is a flight from freedom into a static institution."
SJG
Who is this black girl singing with Jeff Healey ? youtube.com
Lol
And as far as my organization, that is a counter culture radical group, no one ever involved who is not an informed and consenting adult. It does not reinforce social norms, it shatters them.
That it could also become a destructive cult is a risk. Everyone will just have to do their best. During my life time things will be directed more from the top. But the long term success of the organization will come from putting protocols and safeguards in place for a more democratic succession. This issue of success is where most similar groups have failed.
SJG
Also, in my organization, everyone will always be getting a life long continuing education, supervised independent studies. We all need this to be able to take on the injustices and idiocy with which this world presents us.
Women almost always are never paying any money for anything, but this educational program does not cost any money anyway.
Three things in this world which do not really need to have any cost, Knowledge, Spirituality, and Sex. But yet people sell themselves for their entire lives trying to get these, and usually they still do not get them. They don't understand that money is never the issue.
In my organization, these three will be the very fabric of daily life.
SJG
Deep Purple-My Woman From Tokyo youtube.com
Especially if you are a professional faggot
Yipes!
Homosexuals have already claimed their freedom.
Freeing heterosexuals is a much more explosive proposition. This is what my organization is about.
Churches oppose homosexuality because if they didn't oppose it, then they know they would have no basis for repressing heterosexuality, and upon this repression they are completely dependent.
SJG
And Nicespice, "financial literacy" is just another mind fuck, trying to substitute glorified gambling for jobs which pay a living wage.
SJG
^ Is that the speech from your last gay bathhouse visit?
NiceSpice wrote,
" Children’s fictional media is already full of messages related to “believe in yourself”, “overcome adversity”, and “dare to be different”
I think they are already getting the message. Even poor children watch Disney. "
Again, Capitalism has long ago reached the point where it is no longer able to perpetuate itself. But rather than accepting how that is, and trying to understand it. You are looking at the poor and trying to find character faults.
No one would be able to get away with this is the poor were better situated in order to defend themselves.
SJG
You are looking at the poor and trying to find character faults.
LMAO you and another troll from a couple of weeks ago have inspired me to make a new tagline. Coming soon!
You make what ever posts and taglines you want, but I will never condone anything which is trying to make the poor into a scapegoat.
SJG
Actually, I take that back. My current tagline is too petty. I will instead use it to promote my favorite organization.
It’s called JA Finance Park. I’ve volunteered for it before. en.m.wikipedia.org
Like your organization, SJG, it is educational. And it allows children to think about how to design a life for themselves that they wish.
@SJG Financial literacy would be a big first step towards getting out of your moms basement.
And if only you understood what you are talking about 25, you would enjoy the benefits of the things you have done, and you would defend them.
And Nicespice, talking like the poor need some sort of remedial education is absure. They use more smarts in one day than rich people use in a year.
This financial literacy movement only moves more money into the dead money mountain, which inflates the stock market and inflates real estate prices. No good whatsoever comes from that.
You are so young that a bit of your idiocy is partially excused, but just a bit, and just partially. I feel that you have some much deeper problems underneath the stuff you are talking about openly.
SJG
I’ve been enjoying the benefits of the things I’ve done for a very long time now, too bad you will never get to enjoy 1/100th of the things I have, or the experiences I’ve participated in.
No. I believe personal finance and goal setting education is more necessary for children in lower income households because they have less room for error.
I grew up in that background. I know many others who have as well.
I just have more wriggle room in my life because of the strip club. But that’s not an option for everyone.
You're still saying that it is your perrogative to talk down to and mind fuck people. I do not agree.
Things will change when the poor start standing up for themselves and stop being Uncle Toms.
Everyone wants large income and money. For some it is there, for some it is not. But you cannot talk down to people.
Personal finance is just a gimmick, making people wrong for being poor.
SJG
^ I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly, I think that children regardless of their circumstances should be made financially literate, better that they understand what they are able to accomplish, and how to go about it, rather than being victimized by false prophets, promising the unattainable.
^That was to nice spice SJG is just a moron.
I know you're enjoying 25, engaging in glorified gambling instead of using your real skills.
Financial Literacy is a political movement, with very little content, about one 3x5 card worth, but soaked full of moralisms. It is not really about finance, much of it is about business. And I have always supported this, but this is buried in pure shit.
SJG
“Things will change when the poor start standing up for themselves and stop being Uncle Toms.”
If JA keeps being successful, then the poor will be standing up for themselves. Because they will have more options to.
“Everyone wants large income and money.”
I personally don’t care about a large income. In the long run, I want 3 lifestyle businesses in three different industries. And as long as my income is ~50k (the number will be higher if I have children or if I move somewhere more expensive), then I’m happy enough.
I’m sorry if you see what I’m saying as talking down. I don’t know how to express myself otherwise.
“I think that children regardless of their circumstances should be made financially literate”
True. I believe this about all children as well. I emphasized poor children because they have less “support” if they fuck up by having a child at a young age or something.
^ You are aware that you are a major fraud, too lazy to live up to your full potential, and even worse than being lazy as part of your persona, you are intellectually lazy, refusing to accept, facts, instead choosing to live your own preconceived false notions. You are the very definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result each time.
JA meaning Junior Achievement, very hard for me to have come up with that.
If people want to learn about this or that, fine. But such things should never be public policy or public propaganda. Entrepreneurship accelerates the loss of living wage jobs, as our society becomes all against all, a nation of shoe shine boys, like in the third world.
You make you lifestyle businesses whatever you want. That is your business. But your right wing poor bashing politics, I will never tolerate that.
Poverty is caused by social marginalization, nothing else, and you are contributing to that.
SJG
I’m assuming that wasn’t directed at me, 25? :p
^ again I got ninja’d that was to SJG
The Financial Literacy movement is just mind fucking.
I have always supported people who want to run their own businesses. But we cannot make that kind of an idea into public propaganda, that actually makes things worse.
And we can never scapegoat the poor, as you Nicespice seem committed to doing.
And 25, go suck on a lemon.
SJG
@SJG that’s your typical response that or some half assed anal childish response, like I said you are intellectually lazy.
Not everyone wants to or needs to be an entrepreneur. But there’s nothing wrong with making children aware of the basic idea that it’s easier to get what you want when you give others what they want.
Also, if I recall correctly, 25 is actually left wing.
TrollWarnBot works for me now, so 25, he should be at your door any minute now:
SJG
My political views, however, are definitely libertarian :)
But wanting children to be able to fend for themselves is a goal that goes beyond politics, and I think most on the right and left can agree on.
And Libertarianism is total bullshit, just a cover for social darwinism.
And no, nothing you are talking about helps children fend for themselves, it is just mind fucking. No one fends for themselves, everyone is interdependent.
You are just throwing out stuff in order to further scapegoat the poor, and you get away with it only because they decline to stand up for themselves. So there is a big poor on nonsense that you can tap into.
Good Audio: kpfa.org
SJG
@nicespice I'm personally centrist, used to edge Republican, or possibly Blue Dog Democrat, but with the extreme shift in ideology, these last few years, the right wing has been overtaken by the crazies, I've always said I'm socially liberal, fiscally conservative, and I think the libertarians are somewhat nuts.
“No one fends for themselves, everyone is interdependent.”
So you’re saying herds are necessary after all then? After all that arguing we did?
@25 I identify as a libertarian precisely because I see myself as socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And I ended up agreeing with a lot of what Reason magazine says.
NiceSpice, your using too much logic when engaging in SJG. He can’t understand common sense, and has an obsession with going down rabbit holes of complicated minutia of irrelevant topics to throw the person he wants to engage into thinking the same insane ways he does. In other words he tries to break you down to his views and if you show no sign of weakness or caving in, he walks away and will call that person stupid for not seeing it the SJG way.
@Jimgass True. But sometimes I like to debate just to test out the stuff I say. So I don’t care if he doesn’t actually listen to any of it. :p
I agree with dc..but i only talk about it career wise bc 4 some ppl their personal goals are defined in context of career goals
Need to respond to few other comments ..will do so soon
Hopefully lolol^^
The thread only blew up because nicespice made the rookie mistake of trying to debate SJG. Which is like debating a wall, except this wall spews back huge gobs of text that takes nothing that the other person said into account except to say it's nonsense.
I admit, it was pointless. But he inboxed me twice today, telling me to respond to him. So I did.
But after today’s conversation, I don’t think he will anymore. Nor will I be allowed in his organization.
I made the same mistake to debate him, too. It was a couple years ago when I was new. It happens to us all.
My mistake was thinking he was left wing and thinking left wingers were open minded and receptive to reason, debate, etc. But he'll freely admit he's not open minded at all. @ime and I had a nice back and forth over PM discussing that in some cases right wingers are more open minded that some on the left.
There’s a lot of good and bad on both sides, for sure.
I don't know wtf half of what she is trying to say or where her head is at...
But sometimes, for some people, you never feel truly enlightened until you try (in my case) Shrooms. I know this sounds to meticulous, but writing some of your thoughts down while on Shrooms is something I recommend.
I've done Shrooms 3-4 times. The time before last was when I found out the most info on the Universe and beyond, but I could not remember all of the information I gathered.
The most recent trip was months ago, lesser dose than the previous one. I was still tripping and couldn't drive home, and didn't want to be tripping in an Uber, so I had a close friend pick me up but I told him I wasn't ready to be in a moving vehicle so we stayed in his car the whole time and I was just tripping. I was talking out loud, because I wanted him to remember my Shrooms thoughts, but he couldn't make much of it; however, that time I wrote some stuff down. I didn't write down all my findings of the universe, I wrote down, as a warning to myself, that I couldn't trust two people in my life and that actually ended up being the case a couple months later, and I had literally written it down and warned myself of it before it happened. While on Shrooms.
Too*
And to be clear I just sat in his car rambling and, from his perception (he's never done anything like Shrooms) probably thought it was crazy. But it wasn't, he just wasn't enlightened to understand my thoughts. If he'd been on Shrooms, he would've understood. But then we'd each have had to find a way to our respective homes instead of him being sober and driving me home when I was finally ready to be in a moving vehicle.
^^^ My god, you write like you’re currently on a Shroom trip.
I think your anxiety is getting the better of you.
No meat72. But I had just smoked a blunt and was very stoned, so I typed out my thoughts. Thank you reading, reacting, and sharing your opinion.
“I don't know wtf half of what she is trying to say or where her head is at...”
Idk if that was directed at me or Nicole.
But I’ve heard good things about Shrooms. Never tried it though.
It wasn't directed at you, nicespice. Lol.
Yeah Shrooms are great. You have to be in the right mindset and do your research first to ensure that you don't freak out and have a bad trip. And be around people you trust.
Shrooms will make your eyes look like Nicole1994’s eyes. Buyer beware.
No, shrooms don't make your eyes red or baggy. They just make your pupils huge.
Other than that, you would look fine, but I mean, most people would have a hard time following me as I'm trying to tell them how the trees are breathing with me and I just found out a hidden secret of the universe.
I remember before I had ever done Shrooms, or anything besides drink and maybe smoke weed, I saw a friend of mine at a pool hall. He was all smiley and giggling and we're like damn you must have smoked a lot. He's like, "no, I'm on Shrooms," and then we looked at his eyes and his pupils were so big you could barely tell he had blue eyes. It was crazy.
Actually you may have a point, because I'm sure your eyes would start bugging out when you have revelations or cool things start happening around you or too your body.
Interesting story about the trust thing, Nina. I guess a lot of times, we ignore things that we don’t want to be true. But in a certain mental state, it just gets bypassed.
I’ve only tried acid, which made me feel spiritual. And in my normal state, I’m pretty unsentimental and detached.
That's cool that you have tried acid. I did once. I experienced synesthesia, which was cool. We were all listening to music and when I closed my eyes I could see the soundwaves.
I could also see the energy coming from people's bodies, especially if I was directly speaking to me. I had this fake tree as a decoration, and its branches started moving around. This was years ago (I was 19) and the place I lived in had different colors in every room single room. Yellow, pink, deep red, sea green, etc. All the vibrant colors made the experience even cooler.
Tell me why you care.
I’ve read about synthesia before. It seems like it would be fun.
Nicespice, what people like about JA, and why it is funded, is not that it teaches anything of significance or importance to anyone, not anything they could not otherwise learn on their own very easily. No, the reason people like programs like that is because they promote a rightist political view. And included in this is the idea that anyone who does not measure up to social expectations is somehow deficient or culpable.
Nichole raised a very important issue, about standing up to parents and their views.
"The purpose of a career shouldn't cause you to become a slave."
But you nicespice don't even seem to understand this, you side with the parents and side with the entire society in trying to crush people's spirit.
And your whole world view seems to be based upon bashing the poor. I guess you live some place where people can get away with that. Anywhere I have ever been, saying the kinds of poor bashing stuff you say here, would be a termination offense. I would certainly make it so.
We have Capitalism, and it no longer being able to expand into new territory, no more WIld Wild West, no more new 3rd world. So it cannot perpetuate itself, and so this collapse has consequences. One of these is large numbers of people being forced out of the jobs market.
But rather than try to understand this nicespice, you blame the victims.
Don't they teach people anything in school now?
We don't need more JA. What we need is more political education, political consciousness raising. If young people want to be able to function in the coming age, they need a political education.
The poor and minorities need to be standing up for themselves. Not too far back we removed a School Board Member for saying things less offensive than what Nicespice has said on this thread.
I agree with Nichole and DC9428. And thank you Nichole for starting this thread.
And Dominic77 your mistake is to take a denigrating stance towards Nichole and all like her who want to use their abilities and live up to their expectations. You project your own frustrations in life onto her. You blame false enemies in your accepting of Republicanism, Motivationalism, and Financial Speculation. You are someone who could be doing much. But you live in a screwy world and you are giving up, becoming a collaborator, becoming an uncle tom, and denigrating anyone who is not being the brown noser that you are.
SJG
Trouble in India with this new rightist government. en.wikipedia.org
India Carries Out Raids Arresting Critics of Modi Government
The Indian government has conducted raids across the country this week targeting prominent human rights activists, lawyers and critics of the the Narendra Modi government. At least five people were arrested. The novelist Arundhati Roy told the Hindustan Times, “That the raids are taking place on the homes of lawyers, poets, writers, Dalit rights activists and intellectuals—instead of on those who make up lynch mobs and murder people in broad daylight—tells us very clearly where India is headed.”
Nicole, this is a really fun book:
SJG
So about JA?
Teaching such stuff to people who want to learn is fine.
But this does not in any way at all address any of the problems built into Capitalism, like social marginalization, joblessness, and manufactured poverty.
The reasons these kinds of programs are well received is that they promote rightest politics.
And like most other things, they help most those who would mostly like be employable and be most able to start businesses. They don't help anyone else. And undoubtedly they help marginalize many.
So what we really need instead is political and philosophical education.
SJG
My book recommendations to Dominic77, at the tail end, and then about Path of Least Resistance. Both speak to issues Nicole raised on her earlier thread. Some say Path of Least Resistance is really about The Prodigal Son. tuscl.net
TeX, anyone have any experience using this? Mathematical notation is quite complex, and historically computers have fallen way short.
also now getting: FORTH : the fourth-generation language / Steve Burnap. (1986)
Steely Dan Live 2006 Charlotte - HQ video ( really good! ) youtube.com
Unapologetic: A Black, Queer, and Feminist Mandate for Radical Movements amazon.com.
From the Grassroots to the Ballot Box: How Gubernatorial Candidate Andrew Gillum Won in Florida democracynow.org
" JA helps students realize that the education they are getting today will help them to have a bright future tomorrow. "
" JA's volunteer-delivered, kindergarten-12th grade programs foster work-readiness, entrepreneurship and financial literacy skills, and use experiential learning to inspire students to dream big and reach their potential. "
Again, that people have this program, oh well. But never should it be a matter of public promotion or public objectives.
This does not in any way at all address any of the problems built into Capitalism, like social marginalization, joblessness, and manufactured poverty.
The reasons these kinds of programs are well received is that they promote rightest politics.
And like most other things, they help most those who would mostly like be employable and be most able to start businesses. They don't help anyone else. And undoubtedly they help marginalize many.
So what we really need instead is political and philosophical education.
SJG
"Inspire and Prepare Young People to Succeed"
Again, telling people to submit to normative goals. What we need instead is critical thinking and resistance.
And thanks again to our OP Nicole for starting this thread.
SJG
Steve Jobs ' Most Inspiring Speech EVER ( facebook login required ) facebook.com
I am glad that Steve Jobs was not being subjected to Motivational, Self-Improvement, or Financial Literacy teachers. If he was, then I am sure that he would have known that the best response, really the only response, is the middle-finger.
The Power of Cooperatives: Nathan Schneider & Jason Wiener at The Harvard Law Forum youtube.com
Everything for Everyone: The Radical Tradition That Is Shaping the Next Economy, by Nathan Schneider amazon.com
Everything for everyone : the radical tradition that is shaping the next economy / Nathan Schneider. (2018)
Interview democracynow.org
SJG
And some more great threads:
OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments? tuscl.net
Incels (Involuntary Celibates) tuscl.net
Vocels (Voluntary Celibates) tuscl.net
OT: Book Publishing Industry tuscl.net
Alternative Educations tuscl.net
WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
Phatboy99 - definite troll account
Nicole1994 - definite troll account
Daddy_Tricks - definite troll account
Maus3r - possible troll account
L1oydSchoene - alternate second troll account for SJG
txtittyfag - definite troll account
I agree. I am not going to school so I can get a job at a place I hate and have to act like people I do not respect just to blend in. We get an education to give ourselves options, not limit ourselves.