Are things really getting worse?

Welcome back.
What is your old handle? I hope its not Rick Dugan or Papi Chulo - not that anything wrong with it.

Anyone ever tell you that you look like Randy Quaid? :D

I think you are correct - at least when it comes to clubs in my area, the quality, mileage and bang-for-your-buck have all gone downhill. I blame LE and hypocritical politicians who love to talk about personal freedom, but really only mean free to do what they think is right.

I agree most of the dive bar clubs are gone. Thanks to marketing a club can’t be a strop club anymore it has to be a gentleman’s club aka more expensive and likely less mileage. Sometimes that’s OK depending on the situation but it’s also good to have choices available to you

@Rogertex, I dropped it in 2016. Stayed UTR since then, and decided I needed to post to a discussion again. Completely unrelated to this site, I used the this same handle and email on another site where I really fucked and wikileaks scared the hell out of me. You can't erase the Internet, so I just cut ties. Started over completely new.

@Ironcat, agreed

@TheeOSU, yes but only Buckeyes

Strip clubs, like all things, have their ebbs and flows. Girls, customers, bartenders and managers move between clubs I am a little confused as to how society can be moving towards legalizing topless women in public, recreational marijuana, and even licensed brothels; yet closing up strip clubs, passing SESTA and FOSTA, and raising the age requirements for dancing and serving from 18 to 21 or higher. In that sense, yes, clubs everywhere seem to have declined in quality and fun factor from even five years ago. I also wonder if the closure of backpage and other online monger sites will drive more of the hardcore working girls into the clubs so they can meet guys, which will only drag down the entire club with the drama and other baggage they would bring in with them.

I agree, most of the old "hole in the wall" dive bars are gone. IMO they just cannot compete with the higher end clubs. Nicer place opens, better girls go there. Small club has trouble keeping dancers so customers go where the dancers are. No customers and club dies. Also, the club get dancers of lower caliber, starts "looking the other way" on activities going on and LEO visits, club gets shut down. Or, lower quality of girls and a lower quality of customers start showing up. Along comes drugs and LEO visits, again club shut down. Or it's an election year. You have a district attorney that is running for reelection. He vows to clean up the area, so he goes after the smaller clubs that the owners don't have the resources to defend themselves, so either a deal is struck and they shut down or get closed down by some BS undercover that bait the dancers with offers of crazy money.

--> 1) the old dive bar strip clubs have all closed

When the Factories close then local strip clubs close. I wonder if there's been an explosion of dive clubs in China.

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. It used to be Redbook, BP, CL, and a few others which closed. The funny, before that I would to clubs like MBOT and Market Cinema in SF and get full service for $100-$200. It never occurred to me to call and escort I didn't even know where to being. Then with the advent of the infamous websites I figured out I could spend as little $60 as to get a quickie with an insanely hot college-aged girl, or $160 I could get an hour with someone with pornstar skills and impeccable hygiene. I started see escorts a lot more often while on the road, because I travel a lot places were there are not strip clubs, and if I just wanted a quick fix, I hit a regular bar, bust my phone while having a couple of drinks, and within 30-45 min I would have a quick fuck lined up for a fraction of what I'd pay at strip clubs. Meanwhile at the strip club, prices didn't go down, just the service quality as the ultra high mileage places start to either close or change their policies. So the value difference between strip clubs and escort grew, and it came done to did I want to sit down and spend time with girls or go bust a nut. Not, all the online avenues for finding women are gone except for the paid escort sites. So hear I am back at strip clubs and back on this site. Ebbs and flows, just as you said. I'd like to stick with strip clubs. The other shit got out of hand.

@yahtzee ha!

Maybe we're onto something here. Maybe with the demise of Backpage and the like there will be more demand again for the "hole in the wall" strip club and go go bars. I do agree, though, as there are less and less factory jobs there less and less guys stopping by as a small group after work to have a couple beers and see some boobs.

Yeah, I agree. Here is a gross simplification of what I saw in terms of timelines... In the 1970s and 80s, raunchy strip clubs were basically brothels, but it was more about the hustle than fucking (basically what the Block is today, was in Boston, Times Square, LA, San Fran, etc.) But most stripclubs were just titty bars (no fucking). Then in the 1990s and early 00s, a lot of high mileage clubs turned into brothels (El Centro, MBOT Cheaters, Hawaii Theater, a lot of others.) Repeated busts and zoning battles got most of those shutdown. The advent of BP, CL, other sites meant that condos and long-term stay motel were the new brothels. In the last year and especially since Sessions was made AG, those sites have been seized and the ability to market those sites as brothels has become a lot more difficult (still happening but a fraction of what it was.) Will strip clubs go back to being brothels? I don't think so. But I think there may be renewed demand.

Thing is, has anyone really seen any new small clubs open in the past couple years, or any bars that have put on dancers? As the old clubs close there aren't any really replacing them. If attrition continues like it has all the small clubs will be gone soon.

that is the thing. In the last 3-5 years have seen literally one new club open across the cities I frequent. Easily a dozen have closed in the meantime, and the new one which opened frankly sucks.

Jim--your history sounds very, very similar to mine. At one time I travelled every week and it wasn't uncommon to be on an airplane somewhere three to four days each week.

I had a boss who loved strip clubs and to this day swear if he knew I was headed some place based on the clubs in the area more than the business/clients I had he would want to come along for the trip ( Atlanta, Tampa, Dallas in those days being the three cities he loved to go to clubs)

I got away from the clubs because as time went by I saw less action and more hustle and the escorts, especially the independents were a better fit for me. You mention Redbook, over on the East Coast there was the Creative Writers Workshop as it was named at one time.

About the only place I still went to clubs was north of the border-Canada and that was very rare.

Today I have a different schedule and less travel although lately I've been all over the country. I started to venture back into clubs because of finding many of the strippers on SA, which in my case is my main source for finding women in the P4P arena.

If we hit 2008-2009 again with the economy you'll see the clubs gain traction again. Until then I doubt the trend reverses.

Ha! yeah, I hear you man. Although never had a boss like that. I only like to go to clubs alone and wouldn't want a boss hanging around me. I have tried to dabble in Canadian clubs but never succeeded. Both Toronto and Montreal. Have heard amazing things and even pulled into a couple of parking lots on one YYZ trip. But the draw of the P4P was just too much. I actually went back to the SC scene because P4P was getting out of hand. Multiple times a week, sometimes multiple times a day. One European trip I did 7 sessions in Germany (this crazy multi-story indoor red light district in Frankfort) then 3 sessions in Brussels, just too different days. But even the U.S. where there is a great provider 15 min from the office who does amazing sessions at $60 a pop for half and half, with just a cracking body. Thank god she finally moved away! It becomes hard to focus on work. I am a little manic. SC's mellow me out because there is the constant rotation of girls. For me it's going to be strip clubs all the way from now on (of course I say that now...)

@JimOsterberg on your initial thread you mentioned that you were married, you seem to be a bit manic was an understatement you sound more like you are addicted to this environment than you should be, not an attack, just pointing out some inconsistencies.
As others said I’m reserving judgement for now.

Don't kink shame me bro. I don't go to P4P or strip clubs for "relief." I go to the thrill and the little itch. Yes, I have admitted that I have essentially pulled the myself, voluntarily, on P4P. Only one exception to that in the last 6 months and everything else has been strip clubs. I am back to strip clubs. Where I got started, in simpler times. Strip clubs is like being addicted to junk food. P4P is like being addicted to crack -- to easy, to quick, doesn't last, consumes you working life. And yes I am married and happen to have a very fulfilling sex life. That was 100% the motivation for giving up P4P (that and $1000-$2000 a month better spent elsewhere.) But strip clubs do not interfere with that because, for better or worse, they are a lot less convenient and lack the instant gratification.

Let's move on from that topic. We all have our demons. We're here to talk about pussy (a greatest weakness but a rewarding hobby under the right circumstances)

*pull the plug on P4P. That's what I meant and what I've done

^^^sorry my intent was not to shame you it’s just that there seems to me tremendous inconsistency in your posts, almost as if you did a u turn in the middle of the highway. But you are entitled to your fun any way that works for you.

What is the inconsistency?

Seriously, what inconsistency are you talking about? I am not easily offended and not particularly argumentative, but "inconsistency" referenced in the context of somebody's posts implies dishonesty, trolling, bullshitting. If you're accusing me of that, I would like to be clear what we're talking about.

^^^ here’s one to think about, you come across as a pretty seasoned monger, yet you are willing to stake a bet on your buddies involvement with a stripper. I’d be circumspect in that regard, for a guy who’s been lurking for a while I’m sure you’ve seen many guys come here and post their humble brags about having a stripper GF, and fall by the wayside. I’ve been through it and so have many of us, I’ve yet to see one that the picture painted resembles the view from the front row.
You do come across as a good guy I’ll give you that, but I’ve been fooled once or twice, so we’ll see.

BTW I wasn’t implying dishonesty sorry if that’s what you thought, I merely felt your perspective might need some refinement.

Okay, I follow I believe. For future reference, writing stating that somebody has "tremendous inconsistency in your posts" is basically calling a liar. But can move on from that.

Let clarify a couple of things. First, I haven't be lurking. Used to be active. Made close to 100 reviews and 100s of posts. Then got caught up in P4P and didn't step into a strip club unless it was a bachelor party or similar. Bailed from the site. Then I didn't realize how much exposure my old ID got, which I learned the hard way when someone doxed me.

They were just trolling but it freaked me the fuck out. Found my actual email, which laid to my name and my side business via an old website -- posted it in connection to a post which you could link and find ever post I made about P4P, AMPs, picking up street hookers, all kinds of shit I would not want to show up in a background check. Yet there it was on a Google indexed site. I got the admin to take it down, but I don't know how much exposure it got if in the future some AI-based indexing scheme were to piece things together (my background is infosec, I shouldn't have been so damn careless, but I am also not as paranoid as I sound)

What I do in strip clubs, or P4P, that's a private thing. I don't wear that on my sleeve. I used to drag buddies to strip clubs (certain buddies) but I got a reputation among wives and girlfriends as being this pervy guy who wants to go to strip club (because all those pussies would say the didn't wanna but I insisted, etc.) I go alone the majority of the time.

So if you had the impression that my buddy and I were regulars at that club and he "took it to the next level" by dating one of the strippers, no that's not what happened (and yeah that would be the stuff of fantasies.) He and I have been to a strip club exactly once, and that was AFTER meeting his dancer friend. He met her on a whim while down to a club he hadn't been to before for bachelor party of another buddy of his. He happen to hit it off with someone in a tradition way on the outside, not a typical strip club scenario (and the rest has been talked to death in the other post). My questions on that were sincere and I am out of my element there. I know how to handle a dancer or a provider who hustling. Handling an actual relationship on the outside with an actual stripper, that's well beyond my level of experience.

Yes, absolutely I have been around and for a while by today's standard. But I have never had an actual relationship with a provider or a dancer. The closest I got with a regular and it quickly became crazy as we trusted each other enough to share personal info, except in my case it was an alias and a burner phone. But some how I got caught with her family drama and I had a sister calling me threatening me to stay away and that she was going to follow me next time I saw her. That woke me up and I burned all traces and threads (sadly as she gave the best BJ in the world and would suck for 30 min if that's what it took, balls and everything.) Another time was less drama and a little funny. I had a regular I saw for FBSM and be accident I sent her an email with my real account, and she replied. Well if you know LinkedIn, it said "send an invite to 5,000 of your closest friends?" and I did -- and she got it and accepted. Has a profile promoting her massage business. Oh well, but otherwise I do not have personal relationships with providers. Like Charlie Sheen said, you don't pay for the sex, you pay to leave. (well actually I was a paying for both, but like I said P4P is behind me)

I hadn’t thought about the odd transformation undergone by Times Square until you mentioned the old days.

This might be an odd thought - but now you can get accosted by an Elmo impersonator smelling of urine and vodka in Times Square. You can also see topless girls wearing thongs and body paint in Times Square.

But - you can’t find a porn shop - a live sex show - a peep show - or a strip club - in Times Square today. I guess their idea of “cleaning up” the area is a bit different than my idea.

It used to be fun - hitting a few cheap city bars with friends. Having a good time - and then trolling for whores in some of the more sketchy corners of midtown Manhattan.

Yeah. It used to be a riot. I remember going there the first time, it was my first time in Manhattan and I was staying at a hotel with older colleagues overlooking Times Square and could see all the famous signs for the clubs/theaters/peeps now defunct. After 4 nights working a trade show I could finally break free and I was like "Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!" There was so much going on between the whores, the barkers, the peepshows, the other theaters, and trannies and other weirdos. Now it's just perves and weirdos. I brought my kids down there on a trip, and it was just plain stupid. There was no reason for them to go before, but there is ZERO reasons now.

It’s changed from those dirty old porn stores - to being fully corporate businesses taking up the storefronts. I was hoping the clean up would be better for families - but with all the cartoon characters looking for money for taking photos - Times Square has become a complete mess again.

Maybe the old days of whores, porn shops, booths, and strip clubs were better than I remember!

My dad would take us in - and it was great to be there - as it was only a few miles from home - but it was a different (and very filthy) world!