Disappointed

Looked up my long-retired ATF of Facebook a few years ago. Her profile pic was a close-up in her wedding gown looking just as beautiful and classy as I ever remember her. Clicked through more current photos on her page and wish I never had. Once she nabbed her full-time man she really let herself go. It's a good thing there are shiny, new models released every year! They're appealing to our shallowest instincts so I don't think we have anything to apologize for.

The danger in seeing strippers outside the club is that, outside the club you are more likely to see the whole person. Inside the club its all fantasy. My bet is that had you dated her 8 years ago she still would have been turned off by her drinking, incessant talking and whatever else. That’s why, inside the clubs, i don’t even ask for names and I surely don’t remember them past 15 seconds. Inside the clubs its all pixie dust, outside the club is real life and real life is much harder.

So, on my never humble opinion, YES you’re being exceptionally shallow, for an outside the club relationship, inside the club wanting a new shinny model every year is perfectly acceptable. In fact that is what they specialize in.

I wonder if she noticed or cared to look for changes in your physical appearance, from 8 years ago? You didn’t mention if you thought she was, or said she was, attracted to you, and not just your wallet.

I don’t find it shallow that you were turned off by her appearance, I also feel if a woman can’t make an effort to look good she won’t be good enough to have a relationship with. I try hard to be in shape and to be my best person and really don’t have a lot of patience for laziness which is what Bambi is exhibiting.

I try not to judge anyone and only accentuate the positives.

Perhaps I’m slow and you already mentioned this, but I don’t think you did

once she retired, how much time had passed until you met her for lunch?

50 lbs on a 5 foot frame is a lot. I don't think your reaction was much different than what would happen to just about every guy on this website. My Significant Other doesn't have to be Miss Universe, but she does have to be attractive enough that I can get aroused. Is that cold and shallow ? Maybe.

I think this story illustrates the difference between being attracted to the person vs. being attracted to your idealized concept of that person. You mentioned watching from the sidelines as this woman's relationship deteriorated - with the implications that (a) you were at best glossing over her negative traits that contributed to her marriage breaking up, and (b) you were excited enough at the prospect of her being "available" again that you didn't consider how the intervening time and experiences would've adversely impacted her (both physically/ superficially and in emotional/ psychological terms).

@flagooner - excellent advice

@twentyfive - Bambi might have spent 4 hours getting ready for an exciting date but she might have not had much left to work with and the excessive drinking and talking might have been nerves.

@623 so you’re saying I’m shallow, LOL Life’s too short to date ugly girls ;)

I only think it would be shallow if that was the sole reason to abandon a relationship that had been cultivated for years where a commitment had been established.

When it comes to initiating romantic relationships I think everyone is "shallow" if that means we place importance on physical attraction.

@623 I'm surprised I didn't get called out for my statement. I said I try, but it is rare when I succeed in that.

Who am I kidding? I rarely even try.

The strip club is pretty much the only place where I give myself permission to be shallow. I mean, it's sort of written into the base code for what goes on between both strippers and customers. We're there because they're hot, and the dancers are there because we have money. We're shallow and they're materialistic. Those aren't virtues outside the strip club, but they are almost a necessity inside the strip club.

Though "friends" with her on Facebook, your relationship to this woman was/is primarily physical and sexual. At least that's the foundation of it. So, it shouldn't surprise you or anyone else that you didn't feel the same excitement when you saw that she had changed (and not for the better). I'll also point out that minus your nostalgia for how she used to look, she's a woman who drinks too much and couldn't keep her marriage together (though it sounds like her man played an equal role). Without the looks, that doesn't describe anyone I'd go out of my way to date seriously.

Strip clubs don't partner well with introspection. But I think it's a good sign that you give it some thought.

Damn, I can't find anything in Ishmael's post to argue with.

^^^ But you won't let that stop you , will you ?

He didnt even make any typos with apostrophes.

As far as being shallow and self centered, that depends on whether you’ve been looking to her primarily for friendship since she retired or whether she has remained “sexy stripper” to you. It’s sounds like the latter is more true in your case.

While it’s hard to separate the friendship/sexuality aspects, you are certainly not being shallow and self centered with regard to the sexy stripper aspect. She just doesn’t have it anymore. That sounds like that was the main thing for you and I would’ve had the same reaction as you.

On the other hand, if you thought you had developed a simple friendship with her since she retired, I think your reaction to her present appearance should clarify for you that it was never really a friendship you maintained for 8 years on Facebook. That’s not shallow or self centered either. It’s just a reality check.

Maybe I'm just cynical. Well, no maybe about it, I am cynical.

In any event, this is a serious question. Is any relationship maintained exclusively over Facebook much of a relationship at all??

Ishmael's post Is well said and I think right on point.

Inside the club rules allow for, even encourage, shallowness. Outside the club things are much more complicated.

If you’re looking for a friendship and a partner in some things, your comments is very shallow, OTOH if your only looking for some bones to jump, your attitude seems to be on par with all of the males and most of the females in this species.

As to flagooner’s point, I’m not sure of the answer. Whether it’s a “relationship” on Facebook or by any electronic venue, we humans treat it like a relationship to an extent because we are hard wired to regard any regular human interaction that way. However, we tend to be quite clumsy and confused about where that leaves us in terms of a “relationship”.

I’ve seen many a young cute girl get fat, and in the majority of those cases they started popping pills, some legitimately to treat depression/anxiety. This awful mix of psychotropic drugs and alcohol really fucks with your metabolism. She’s treating her symptoms by overmedicating. It’s not shallow to see her behavioral faults affecting her physical traits. I would assume it’s why her boyfriend moved on. Who would want to stay with a depressed/anxiety ridden girl who gets fat from over indulging or unable to handle her problems effectively?

Is she AA? Maybe you could set her up with Papi.

Nothing to apologize about. Men like to look at pretty women. Life is short. Enjoy yourself.

@jackslash - Are you shallow? Yes, but at least you aren't jaded.

@jackslash - in your defense, it sounds like there is more to her that is unattractive than simply her degrading looks. I try to be empathetic t9 alcoholics/addicts as I know there are things in their lives and their genetics that cause them to get that way, but to have a front row seat to someone's life spiraling downwards would certainly be a turnoff to me.

What I frankly do find shallow though is you making plans to come in for the rebound with selfish plans in mind while she is so far down. I mean, men will be men, but damn man, sounds like she needs a friend more than anything and opposite to what you may have had in mind.

623-->"My bet is that had you dated her 8 years ago she still would have been turned off by her drinking, incessant talking and whatever else."

I agree that's probably true if he had the excruciatingly poor judgement to, y'know, DATE date her. None of that is remotely a turn-off for me (and I'd bet a decent % of other guys here) for a more sane, OTC or arrangement-ish relationship. (and note that, from context, I'm not entirely sure jack intended "talked incessantly" to be a pure negative; it might only be a negative for fat chicks).

I guess I'm shallow to because I probably would have reacted the same I had an 18 year old hottie once they used to see in and outside of the club didn't see her for years ran into her when she was about 25 or 26 and let's just say the years and the drugs had not been kind to her

-->"Watching her was no longer pleasant. She was still bubbly and talked incessantly. But while I always enjoy talking to a hot woman, I don't enjoy talking to a fat one. I no longer wanted to date Bambi. Even though she's about 30 years younger than me, I had no desire to go out with her or have sex with her. ... I was disappointed in Bambi. I was also disappointed in myself. I try not to be a shallow and self-centered person. My reaction to Bambi revealed how shallow I was. I did not even care to talk to her because she was not physically attractive enough. Maybe I am the one who needs to change."

I think this is crazy talk, man. It would be one thing if you hated talking to fat women at all -- even family members, even co-workers, even random people you run into. But entirely different standards when the relationship is 100% romantic and lust-based; a big part of underlying foundation of those types of relationships is the physical attraction, for everyone.

To take the opposite side of 623's coin: I wonder if you'd met her fat (so never had lustful intentions towards her), but she was interesting and funny and sharp, if you'd still dislike talking to her. An unattractive girl with the stereotypical stripper's personality can be ... trying for anyone.

I enjoyed reading the story. Well written, Jack.

Time is not kind, especially to women.

The strip club conditions us to behave this way. All ladies charge $20 so why waste everybody’s time when there is no interest.

We PLs have the luxury to choose which women we want to interact with in a strip club.

I haven’t seen the DS in over a year: it would be incredibly disappointing to go see her and find out that she’s fat.

Your pre-existing "relationship" w/ her was based on her looks and your wallet; i.e. not a real relationship.

PLs go to strip clubs to get w/ hot-women, not Ms Personality - sure a good/fun personality is necessary, but it's based on whether she's attractive to you or not. You wanted to get w/ her b/c she was/used-to-be hot, not b/c she was a FB buddy, obviously.

Y

You are not necessarily shallow - you just want what you want - she's not a family-member nor your wife of 30-years.

It’s a starting point:

google.com

There’s a girl I met in higjschcool while on vacation once. I would travel to see her periodically when I was in college. Honestly thought she was going to be my wife one day, but then she married some guy 10 years older than her and had 2 kids. So much for that.

Anyway she’s similar to what Jack said, very small and petite and probably has put on close to 50lbs since she was 20. She’s “chubby” but still pretty so I’d still sleep with her given the opportunity. Some women can still look good putting on weight others look horrible.

It’s normal. Guys want girls for their looks, which is why a lot of guys cheat in their marrriages when the wives looks start to decline. Maybe a little shallow, but in that regard I think we all are.

^^^^ right and the opposite - most guys can get as far and sloppy as they wish and their wives will smile and take it as long as the guys bank account and earning increase with their waistline!!!