It’s all over for the Russian dossier

Trump is the turd in the punch bowl of the American republic. Mueller will flush him down the toilet of history.

And in a related news story the Trump administration has commissioned a new study to find out how much spaghetti will stick to the ceiling before the roof caves in around them.

https://tenor.com/view/disney-mickey-mou…

@jacklash, Mueller is nothing but a political side show circus act, as everyone with a lick of sense knows by now. This Russia collusion nonsense has been under investigation for two years now, with millions of dollars, 10s of thousand of man hours and many trees killed in document production. If there was anything there to be had, it would have surfaced long ago. This is why Mueller has been reduced to charging former Trump staffers with lying about meetings or for stuff they did many years before they were part of the Trump campaign.

I thought draining the swamp was putting a stop to entitlements. I’m still waiting for him to do that.

Bj99: +1

Who could have guessed their intention behind draining the swamp was to fill it with sewage?

"This Russia collusion nonsense has been under investigation for two years now"

Right. Mueller was named Special Counsel in May 2017. Try and keep your fake news facts straight, ok, Rick?

Here’s another left wing fantasy. The Dems are going to take back the House and Senate in 2018.

The generic advantage for Dems has disappeared in the last month. The economy is booming and will continue booming through the election, thanks to Republican tax reform. Trump is proposing a reasonable DACA bill, which Dems oppose. Dems are hanging the DACA kids out to dry so they can keep the issue but people are realizing they don’t give a damn about DACA kids. Legal prosecutions for the fake dossier and wiretapping Americans will be in full swing by November.

Dems will lose several senate seats in red states, allowing Trump to pass other parts of his MAGA plan, including downsizing government and welfare reform.

He’s not going to do that lol. There will be some reason (not the Republican’s fault, of course) that he can’t.

Somebody has been watching fox news and there soon show....LoL

realDougster, I guess you missed the FBI investigation, which started almost a year before that. All of the FBI files were turned over to Mueller when he kicked off, so his efforts are really a continuation of what the FBI started. You may also have missed two Congressional Committees that subpoenaed documents and took testimony prior to Mueller's appointment. So yes, almost 2 years and an absurd amount of resources later, there is still nothing.

"...there is still nothing"

I thought two people had pled guilty?

All I have to say is we’ll see what happens. One thing important to note, Trump is not unlike Bill Clinton, in the sense that he is enamored with the sound of his own voice.

Trump has barely been in office for a year - yeah, I know - it seems like fucking forever

Someone’s tin foil hat needs adjusting.

The conspiracy theories are getting mixed in with all the static from the alien messages.

You have to give Trump credit: he pivots really fast. For the past few years, if a law enforcement officer shot a suspect, we were always told that we should give the cops the benefit of the doubt - anyone who didn't agree was deemed anti-law enforcement and weak on crime. But now we're being told that the nation's top law enforcement agency is treasonous. So does this mean that Trump is anti-law enforcement and weak on crime, too? After all, the FBI are cops, aren't they? So aren't we supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt, just like the cops who shot suspects in Ferguson, Baltimore, New York, Chicago, Charleston, etc? Surely any evidence that they have against the FBI pales in comparison to the videos of local police officers killing unarmed suspects in cold blood, right?

Honestly, I think the solution is to have a little objectivity and skepticism of power. You should be skeptical of the FBI. You didn't need Trump to tell you this. (Doesn't anyone remember Cointelpro and J. Edgar Hoover?) But you should also be skeptical of the CIA, the DEA, the NSA, and the local police, too. You should be skeptical of all government authorities. They've earned some healthy skepticism from the body politic.

While we're at it, this whole Russia thing is total 100% horseshit. People have a right to speak their mind on the internet, and that's all the Russians are guilty of doing, assuming the allegations are true. The First Amendment doesn't stop at the border. The right to free speech is a natural human right that our government just so happens to recognize. I wouldn't care if Putin himself posted on Facebook that Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring. Why should we care?

Mark94, the Republican Party's greatest supporter.

SJG

Random, two people pled guilty to ticky tac crap charges, one for lying about a meeting (which was one among a collection of meetings with different foreign officials from 12+ countries during the transition) and the other a 20-something year old junior campaign staffer who lied about his failed efforts to put together a meeting to establish goodwill between the trump campaign and Russia.

Remember the whole point of this exercise was to find collusion and it would seem that, after almost 2 years, none has been found. Now this is becoming nothing more than a circus act that is being used as a political weapon. The longer this goes on, the more that I and I suspect many other people are going to want this whole pointless sideshow to go away.

Oh, and just in case I am accused of having a partisan view, I was saying the same thing when Republicans pulled the same shit on Bill Clinton and ended up impeaching him. I was pissed that Republicans burned so much time and effort in going after the President for getting a blowjob from an intern. When one side or the other of the political aisle uses prosecutorial powers for political ends, it makes us look like a banana republic and the people involved like vindictive ankle biting cunts.

Trump’s biggest advantage is that his opponents think he is dumb. They underestimate him and still think he will implode of his own bumbling. That was true in 2016 and is still true today.

Trump survived in NYC real estate development for 40 years. You need to be street smart and a skilled political knife fighter to pull that off.

Trump has painted the congressional Dems into an unwinnable corner. They either can’t see this, or refuse to admit it. Tax reform, DACA, judges, infrastructure, the FISA scandal, and dem reaction to his State of the Union mean he will get the support of the working class, the middle class, and independents even though they won’t tell pollsters that.

‘Funny you would say that Dugan it seems to me that Muellar is a Republican so explain yourself how this is the other side of the aisle. Please cut the horseshit and look outside the bubble for some real news, this same old shit is tiresome.
How is exploding the deficit with raising the debt ceiling a conservative move. You guys should be ashamed of yourself. The truth is becoming clearer every passing day. The Trumpians are so far from Republicanism it’s ridiculous. When I was coming up Republicans had principals and real morals not this scapegoating bullshit that you guys are trying to pull, the new agenda has become bait and switch.

And Mark you don’t have a fucking clue, Trump is and always been a con man, he’ll never change. Fortunately fewer and fewer believe his bullshit, I seem to remember a Wall was going to be built and Mexico was going to pay for it, or is that my imagination.

Twenty, I have no problem with anyone criticizing his policies. I'm not happy with that budget either, but that is separate and distinct from a political witch hunt using a prosecutor who is looking to justify his existence and who is likely not particularly pleased over Trump's treatment of Comey.

If he has evidence of collusion, let's fucking hear it already. If there really was collusion, then I would want Trump out too. But the truth is that there isn't any evidence that Trump colluded with Russians and everyone knows it, so it's time to end this circus sideshow and commit our resources to better uses.

Oh, and twenty, that wall is coming I strongly suspect. There is no way that Trump is going to grant relief for those dreamers without getting his wall and it is too important a political issue for the Dems to allow them to just walk away without a win.

"This Russia collusion nonsense has been under investigation for two years now."

Um... No, it has not. Mueller started the investigation less than one year ago (May 2017).

And let's remember it took over two years for Nixon's resignation from the actual Watergate incident (June 1972) to his actual resignation in August of '74. Plus some of the scandals dated back to 1970, four years after his resignation.

Dugan and Mexico is going to pay for it you conveniently forget that part.
And the prosecutor is going to justify his existence , really hitting the koolaid hard, he was appointed by this White House, and we don’t know exactly what he has found other than what Trump has tweeted. I see Muellar going about doing his job without making a whole bunch of noise, seems to me that all of the noise is coming from folks that are genuinely worried about what he is finding. Actually all of the bullshit that they are spouting, is just that, bullshit, Mr. Muellar will announce his findings In due time in the meanwhile all this is speculation with a lot of posturing by your boy. But facts are stubborn things you know, when they become available, that’s when this conversation will matter right now this is just speculation.

These things take time. After all, Trump spent over five years investigating Obama's birthplace.

@rickdugan said: "If there really was collusion, then I would want Trump out too."

Why? Why would this bother you so much?

@Nina, the FBI started the investigation long before Mueller was appointed and he was provided with everything they had, so his investigation is a continuation of what was started in 2016. There have also been two separate Congressional investigations, with testimony and subpoenas included. There is nothing there and everyone, including Dems who are part of Congressional Foreign Intelligence Committees, know it. Almost all of this originated with the Steele Dossier, which has since been largely discredited.

@BHO: Because the thought of a Presidential candidate collaborating with, and in the process becoming compromised to, a foreign power is untenable.

@rickdugan,

I'm not sure what 'untenable' means in this context, but I think I understand what you're saying. I just disagree. Several politicians appeared to have secret agreements with a foreign power through the years, seemingly against the best interests of America, including Nixon with Vietnam in 1968, Ted Kennedy with the Soviet Union in 1984, Reagan with Iran and Nicaraugua in 1985, and Obama with Putin in 2012, so this is hardly uncharted territory, assuming it's even true. But in Trump's case we're just talking about speech. Not policy, not wars, not treaties, not legislation, just words on the internet.

The allegation is that Putin helped Trump win by spreading lies about Hillary Clinton online; and in exchange, Trump... what? Says nice things about Putin in front of a camera? That's it? That's pretty lame. Besides, anyone who's really worried about Trump being so easily compromised by Russia because of a bunch of online trolls and fake social media posts is someone who doesn't have much faith in democracy (and I have to confess, I'm not thrilled with democracy either). Because you're saying that the voters were really swayed by stupid stories about child sex trafficking rings. The only way to combat this is to censor the internet and shut down free speech.

BHO, you're comparing apples and bananas in terms of those historical agreements, if they could all be called such, and a specific agreement to obtain help from a foreign power in winning an election.

Now do I think that such an agreement existed? Of course not. This whole absurd saga started with a dossier that was sponsored by the DNC and Hillary's campaign, that has been more or less completely discredited for some time now and which we are now learning actually contained "intelligence" spoon fed by the sponsors to this dude Steele. We are also now learning that Steele, in addition to being a paid shill, was actually speaking with the press in order to bolster his purported findings in the public eye.

What a mess. More than that though, it showed the depths to which Hillary was willing to stoop to gain power. Not that we were confused by that after watching her help cover up Willy's various scandals involving his, well, willy over the years. But to be involved in something like this...

But if all of this wasn't just a pile of steaming bullshit, I would be concerned, because I am fairly certain that Putin would have wanted a lot more than "nice things in front of the camera" in payment for his efforts. We have a number of national security and global humanitarian interests that are reliant upon the ability of the U.S. to take a strong stance on certain matters and if that was compromised, it could have real world consequences.

@rickdugan,

I understand what you're saying. And I agree that this investigation is silly. For the record, I happen to believe that Russia did intervene in the 2016 election by spreading malicious rumors online, and probably by hacking into email accounts. But I doubt that Trump directly colluded with them and, as I've said, I wouldn't really care even if he had.

If I had to guess, I would say that Putin wants a less aggressive American foreign policy, to make sure that America doesn't attempt to thwart his potential future expansionism. And this is fine with me: I don't think we have any business preventing Putin from invading other countries anyway. During the last three US presidential elections, he has seemed to prefer the less hawkish candidate. He seemed to prefer Obama over McCain and Romney, and then he clearly preferred Trump over Clinton. But 2016 was the first time that analysts believe he actively intervened in our elections. Perhaps this was because he felt that a President Trump would make America look undignified. Or perhaps he correctly recognized that Trump was a fellow European-style nationalist, and therefore a better investment for him than Obama had been. I'm not sure. But either way, I don't think Putin's bet will pay off very well.

@Dugan just a quick question about “ ticky tac crap charges,” since when is intentional lying to an FBI agent “tickytac” when he could have refused to answer a question legally without consequences?
Flynn intentionally mislead agents, when he had every right to refuse to answer at all, you are just blowing smoke out of your ass.
“Ticky Tac “ dude really WTF.

Hillary's intention was always to make Hillary great, and she would have done so at the expense of America and all Americans. That was essentially her campaign message, and one that 50% of voters received. Obama's intention was to weaken America, and make the rest of the world great at our expense. Again, he was fairly honest about that, and a majority of dipshit voters elected him twice (although McCain didn't leave America with much of a choice).

Trump's stated intention is to make America great again, and he is succeeding in that. Why do liberals hate watching American succeed and take our rightful place as the greatest nation on Earth? Please, fuck off to Canada or Venezuela, if American success is so painful for you.

Seriously mark94, relax. You'll have an aneurysm.

I don't know what it is with Trump fans constantly freaking out. I doubt that there was collusion but let the investigation play out. Remember that rickdugan years are kind of like dog years. I'm sure that we'll have and end to the investigation in 5 or 10 rickdugan years. That isn't too long!

Thus far Trump has largely let congress set the agenda on many things. He's also proposed a number of executive orders that have been stalled in the courts and given us a lot of entertaining Twitter. I am still slightly worried he'll nuke Burkini Faso when their president tweets that they aren't a shithole, but cooler heads will likely prevail.

You do realize that the election is more than 8 months away, don't you? That is like 20 rickdugan years!

I wouldn't say anything but rickdugan is far more entertaining as an author of brilliant but crazy stories. Even if they are 95% fictional they still make a good read. His "policy analysis" is just boring.

Please don't write things that make him waste time writing this shit when he could be making up bottom-feeding whoremoger stories!

"Trump's stated intention is to make America great again, and he is succeeding in that."

Right. Just like he did with his casinos.

"President Donald Trump is proposing a $4 trillion-plus budget for next year that projects a $1 trillion or so federal deficit and — unlike the plan he released last year — never comes close to promising a balanced federal ledger even after 10 years.
And that’s before last week’s $300 billion budget pact is added this year and next, showering both the Pentagon and domestic agencies with big increases."

https://apnews.com/e50aec4820da4e30aed4b…

When candidate Trump talked about draining the swamp, most of us assumed he was talking about congress. It’s increasingly clear that the real swamp is the upper leadership of the agencies in the executive branch..

We now know that the leadership of the FBI, DOJ, State Dept, EPA, and IRS are corrupt. They will do anything that they believe furthers their career. They care nothing about the American people or the rule of law.

I recommend watching the excellent British TV comedy “ Yes, Minister “ as background on how destructive a permanent bureaucratic class can be.

How government works ( Yes, Minister)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QurCB1lCHp…

^^^When he talked about draining the swamp, I assumed he meant the bureaucrats and well-connected special interests - something that the president has at least some power over. But you don't drain the swamp by giving it more money.

^^^ @BHO, that's what I thought drain-the-swamp was too. Maybe we need Steve Bannon back? Even though @Bannnon was kooky, I kind of miss him. Mooch, too.

Twenty, when you've expended the massive amount of resources committed by the combination of the FBI / DOJ /Special Prosecutor / two separate Congressional committees and all there is to show for it is two guilty pleas for lying to investigators, then yes, absurdly ticky tac indeed.

This is especially true when those pleas involve one for lying about a meeting that was one among a collection of meetings with different foreign officials from 12+ countries during the transition and the other a 20-something year old junior campaign staffer who lied about his failed efforts to put together a meeting between Trump and Putin. You'll notice that those two were not charged with aiding and abetting collusion. Why not? I think we know the answer. Flynn was meeting with people from a number of countries during the transition (which is normal), not just Russia, and there is zero evidence that the meeting was extraordinary in any way. Also, it was clear that the junior campaign staffer was both acting on his own ideas and wasn't taken very seriously by anyone in a senior position in the campaign, as well evidenced in the email trails and other recountings of in person interactions with him.

It is time for this nonsense to stop. If someone has found some real evidence that Trump colluded with Russia then let's hear it - it's been almost 2 fucking years now with countless resources expended. Otherwise, it's time to move on.

You keep saying 2 years and it ain't so, keep throwing that spaghetti up there on the ceiling we'll see how much sticks, as far as Flynn is concerned he had the right to remain silent, he got what he deserved, not ticky tac, actually intentionally misleading but, you and your folks being in the bubble refuse to admit the facts.
We will see in November how this plays out.

Twenty, it started in July of 2016. So ok, 1 year and 7 months. Mueller took over from the FBI and is even using the same FBI investigators - he didn't start from scratch. Oh yeah, and let's not forget the two Congressional committees that have also been investigating.

Look twenty, I know you want something to be there, but it isn't. This entire farce started with a "dossier" that is widely considered to be almost complete crap, all provided by anonymous sources. Some even suspect that Steele was a victim of a Russian disinformation campaign. Even worse, we have recently learned that the dems themselves fed Steele some of those "independent" findings. It is truly disturbing.

And stop accusing others of being in a bubble when it is clear that you're the one operating off of emotion and ignoring the all too obvious. I would be the first one in line for Trump's head if this was anything other than a ridiculous circus sideshow based upon a now widely discredited Dem attempt at a hit job. But after 19 fucking months with nothing to show, enough is enough.

Yeah they need to forget this Russian shit and get back to the email server and Benghazi.

You keep saying the same thing over and over, but there's no confirmation from any credible source, AFIK Muellar hasn't spoken to any reporters, and they are just speculating as to what this means and what that means, we won't know untill he brings his findings to congress or whereever his oversight is, my guess is there is a skunk loose somewhere, but where I personally dont know.
I have no emotion over this, you keep saying that, but that is part of your repertoire just like dude or girly boy, you seem very emotional to me, sorry if I'm upsetting you, but thats par for the course, you seem to get bent out of shape by me easily, maybe its because I remind you that you aren't the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
Have you noticed I haven't brought up the dossier, it really isn't necessary Trumps behavior speaks for itself.
C'mon dude stop being such a girly boy, don't tell me what I want, it ain't nearly about that, it's just looking at the world realisticly, you should give that a go once in a while.

I forgot 25, you were the guy who needed law enforcement to tell you that it was ok to condemn someone for admitting to doing something horrible. ;)

I guess now you need Mueller to tell you what is all too obvious. There was no collusion or else someone would have been charged by now. The document that kicked off this whole investigation in the first place is now known to be an unreliable rag. 19 months of FBI work and two separate Congressional investigations and still nothing other than some lying charges with no evidence of more serious underlying crimes. All that is left now is for Mueller to try to concoct whatever else he can to punish Trump for his treatment of Comey and the FBI. But the good news is that the longer this goes on, the less that most people care.

As usual @Dugan you are a womanly figure, only an ex wife or ex girlfriend chooses to bring up old arguments when there isn’t even an argument just a disagreement, what a dumbass you are, SAD SAD SAD.

mark,
How can you be so obtuse? Trump isn't the president. Many above said so, as did most all in the press (except maybe 3 people, best one below about 1 1/2 years out). I think the fake news is those that think he really is the President.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-2uSG1x…

@Dominic77,

The only way to drain the swamp is to shrink the overall size of the Government. There is no other way. Special interests only come to DC in the first place because there is so much tax money available to plunder.

And Steve Bannon didn't want to shrink the size of government; he just wanted to divide it up so that more of the spoils go to working-class white people and the native-born. He was against entitlement reform, against the corporate tax cut... in fact, he wanted to raise taxes on the upper income brackets. He was not a small-government conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

But with or without Bannon, I promise you, Trump's final budget will not be meaningfully smaller than Obama's final budget. Which means that the "swamp" will still be the exact same depth when Trump leaves office. You'll see.