Loving a stripper

avatar for gawker
gawker
Older than dirt
This is an old topic for me and those who are tired of my diatribe should just move on.
In summary, I've been seeing my ATF for 9 years. She is 40 years younger than my 72 years and is a serious heroin addict. There's not much we haven't done and surprisingly her appearance has not been adversely affected by the abuse. She is entering detox for what seems like the hundredth time but this time she seems to be approaching it with different expectations looking for a different outcome.
For the past 6 or 7 weeks she's been living at my townhouse condo. She has the upstairs bedroom, full bath, and a large loft. She's paid no rent other than fucking me every few days. She worked a couple of weeks, stripping at a Providence club and sucking dick for money and earned good enough money to support her $150 per day habit.
Her theory and belief are that her stripping and hooking are a function of her addiction and readily admits that she can't do one without the other. From past experience she knows that she'll be sick for a couple of weeks following detox and she wants to stay with me for a few months getting her affairs together. She has lost her license years ago and needs to regain that. She needs to find & work with a therapist to come to grips with her trauma ( one rape & some abuse from other customers) and seek prescription meds for anxiety, depression, and possibly some other mental health issues. She wants to find a low wage part time job while doing this and wants me to continue to drive her to all of her appointments, give her room & board and have me assume a new role with no sex included. I understand what she's looking for and also realize how hard it will be after years of intimacy. Should I do this to help her break the cycle which if not broken will kill her? I was surprised to learn that she harbored anger and resentment towards me for "using" her ( forgetting the approximately $300,000 I paid her). I apparently was the first to talk her into OTC and that by paying her an exorbitant amount of money allowed her recreational habit to become a full blown addiction. Guilty as charged I guess, but now can I or should I assume a role more like a father than a customer???

49 comments

Jump to latest
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
7 years ago
Do what you want but be aware that she isn’t ready yet for one simple reason. If she’s assigning blame to you, that means she still is refusing to be responsible for her own role in this drama. I don’t really see this ever ending well. Jes my take, I rarely comment on your situation @Gawker I’ll leave you to it.
avatar for Cashman1234
Cashman1234
7 years ago
I hope your atf is able to get sober, and pull herself together. She should benefit from therapy and from having psychiatric help and medicines.

It will be an adjustment for both of you. It will be difficult at times. But her commitment must be very strong - as her addiction appears incredibly powerful.

Without the sex, how will she compensate you for her room and board? It seems a bit one sided - from her perspective. She seems to have a decent living arrangement, and hopefully she won’t take it for granted.
avatar for warhawks
warhawks
7 years ago
Loving a stripper is hard. It’s a drama filled rollercoaster of emotions, and situations that you never dreamed of getting yourself into (or out of).

I don’t recommend it for just anybody. It’s not for everyone.
avatar for bubba267
bubba267
7 years ago
I too have never commented on your situation. If you are thick skinned enough to tolerate her assigning blame, for now, then I would continue to try to help her. To me it is obvious that you have deep feelings for her, and beyond the sex. If she does get into psychological therapy, she will eventually realize that you may have helped enable her with your generosity, but as twentyfive has pointed out, she has to own her own problems regarding her addiction in order to get better. Further, her talking about your relationship turning to non-sexual during this period, is her asking for you to prove you care for her beyond the sex that started the relationship. Some on here may call SS, but what you’ve described is a classic co-dependent relationship. In the end, you should decide if you care for her enough as person to work through her blaming you while accepting your generosity. I’d guess the sex would come back, but only after she is owning her own problems and not blaming others. Good luck.
avatar for jackslash
jackslash
7 years ago
I for one am not tired of Gawker's stories. I have had similar--though much less extreme--experiences with my ATF. Gawker makes me feel than I'm not as pathetic a loser as I could be.

Gawker loves her and will of course do whatever she asks. She will lie to him and use him and blame him for her own bad behavior. She will never change. And neither will Gawker.

Q. Why is loving a stripper like riding a roller coaster?
A. There are a lot of ups and downs, everybody gets a turn, and when you get off you want to throw up.
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
7 years ago
Well since you asked publicly, if she really wants to get better and you want to help her, I would contact United Way or some other organization if she is agreeable to get herself on the right track, drug free and part ways. As two people with impulsive tendencies, it will be very difficult for the two of you not to resort back to old ways if you are both seeing each other that much living under the same roof. In my opinion the temptation for both you and her would be great to return to old ways. You can always try it though. If it doesn't work out, help get her shelter at wherever a charity organization might be willing to help her get clean and straight. A charity may have more experience and support for her. I've donated to United Way and heard people speak about being accepted to a half way house getting drug free and them saying it saved their lives.
avatar for MrDeuce
MrDeuce
7 years ago
I agree with 25 (!) that if she blames gawker for her plight, she is not yet ready to get well.

I also agree that loving a stripper is hard. I fell in love with my ATF in 2016 and am still not over her. As she herself says about the succession of "druggies and thuggies" that she falls for:
"The heart wants what it wants!"

I admire gawker for his honesty in sharing this saga with us and hope it ends well.
avatar for JohnBuford
JohnBuford
7 years ago
I don't say this in a smartass way,but I think you both need professional help. I TOTALLY understand wanting to "help", I've done it myself plenty of times. But this thing you have going on ? Whew. Above my pay grade as we used to say in the Army.You're 72. Children ? Grandchildren ? If yes,are you spending time with them that could be more beneficial ?
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
7 years ago
I would get her to buy into whatever she wants if you are agreeable. If her idea doesn't work out, suggest trying to get her into a charity halfway house so she has others in the same boat trying to get drug free and free of other drug enabling habits if her original idea fails which I believe there is a good chance of failure. It might not be a bad idea for her or both of you to check into it as there could be a waiting list to be accepted. She may need to understand she needs to be serious about wanting to change.
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
7 years ago
Good luck to both of you.
avatar for lendale77
lendale77
7 years ago
"Rollercoaster" is an appropriate term with having a relationship with a woman of her background and problems. I say that because of the strange changes in comments I have experienced throughout my shorter timeframe with another woman of this background. Regrettably, I have said point blank to her that "I am done with this relationship" yet have come back. She almost knows I will. I would say she should seek professional help, but I do not know if she would be genuine in that regard. Can you step away?
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
7 years ago
FYI, I am not a professional so my advise may or may not be good.. I am not a psychologist either. I am a guy who has had relationships with strippers though. It can be tough to give up sex and let her stay rent free. I have relatives that would require rent even if you were a relative. I have relatives or in laws that charged their own kids rent after high school to stay in the house. I think that is a bit extreme charging rent to your own kids but it made them get a job and pay something.
avatar for NaturalSelection
NaturalSelection
7 years ago
If Gawker loved her, he wouldn't have to ask. "should I assume a role more like a father than a customer???"
avatar for stripfighter
stripfighter
7 years ago
Co-dependent =/= love

avatar for ime
ime
7 years ago
You need a restraining order or something on her so you legally have to stay away from her or got to jail. I don't know if you can just get a restraining order on someone but maybe you should look into it. No contact, no free room and board, no sex, you both use each other, now she wants to guilt you.There is no upside for you with her.
avatar for Daddillac
Daddillac
7 years ago
I would agree.... if she is not taking personal responsibility then she is not ready to get better.... you have to own your own problems.

As for what to do, I'm not the right one to give advice. Some days I would say do what you can to help her, other days I would say throw her out she will OD soon and stop being a drag on your finances and emotions. It really depends on how I'm feeling about my own problem lol
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
This isn’t loving a stripper. This is loving an addict, so yes; you should help her. Plus, you can use the sense of purpose. Imagine how lost you would be, if she was just not in your life at all, and how you would feel ab yourself. You might as well help her.
avatar for shadowcat
shadowcat
7 years ago
Detox is not going to do it. She needs to be in a rehab program that starts with 30 days in house and then goes to at least a 6 month out patient program. She needs to learn that only she herself can overcome her addiction. Leaning on others(you) is anti productive. You in fact are an enabler. You are making it too easy on her.

The cost of these programs can get very expensive. Like $1K/day for in house rehab. I'm sure your finances are not what they used to be. You need to find a charitable or government program that is free. I think a year in jail might be better than what you are proposing to do.

But all of this is dependent on whether or not you are willing to give her up. And don't forget that you are not a young man any more. You may become ill and not physically be able to fulfill the things you are offering her. I know. If it was't for my kids help, I would have been in a nursing home for months during 2016.

I'm just afraid that we have not heard the last of this. So like the rest "Good Luck".
avatar for flagooner
flagooner
7 years ago
^ I agree with part of what you wrote. Being a stripper is purely incidental.

Not being a professional, I don't know the best way to "help" her. If gawker really does care about her, I suggest he seek professional advice and follow it.

Then again, is there really any better place to get life advice than on an internet discussion board for strip club enthusiasts? I doubt it.
avatar for Uprightcitizen
Uprightcitizen
7 years ago
Why not try this...take her on a trip with you for a few weeks after detox. Go someplace you have both never been together. Make is someplace relaxing with no opportunity for her old vices and habits to come back. The goal is for you both to relax and wind down with no drama. Give each of you the space to find yourselves again and maybe, just maybe she will have some self reflection and get some clarity and assume some responsibility.
avatar for eyeofodin
eyeofodin
7 years ago
A take on Uprightcitizen's idea: take her to Singapore either she stays clean or:

Penalties for Drug Possession in Singapore
Under the Misuse of Drugs Act, the prescribed penalties for possession of small amounts range from fines of up to $20,000 to a maximum of ten years in prison. The Central Narcotics Bureau has a complete list of controlled substances you should not bring into Singapore.

As per Section 17 of the Act, you are automatically presumed to be trafficking in drugs if you are caught with the following amounts:
Heroin - 2 grams or more
Cocaine - 3 grams or more
Morphine - 3 grams ore more
MDMA (ecstasy) - 10 grams or more
Hashish - 10 grams or more
Cannabis - 15 grams or more
Opium - 100 grams or more
Methamphetamine - 25 grams or more

As per Schedule 2 of the Act, the death penalty may be prescribed if you are convicted of possessing any of the following:
Heroin - 15 grams or more
Cocaine - 30 grams or more
Morphine - 30 grams or more
Hashish - 200 grams or more
Methamphetamine - 250 grams or more
Cannabis - 500 grams or more
Opium - 1,200 grams or more
As of January 2013, changes to the law give judges a little more wiggle room: instead being required to hand down death sentences for drug smuggling, judges are permitted to impose life sentences instead.

Good / harsh place to see if she values herself or drugs more.....
avatar for eyeofodin
eyeofodin
7 years ago
I should note that I'm anti drug...... I've seen too many friends/ acquaintances/ employees or their family members die or have their lives and family members lives wrecked ... and have no sympathies any more.
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
^ what exactly is your point? That he should just kick her out? Or that nothing will help her? That’s was interesting, but not very clear.
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
7 years ago
^^^Or even worse they go to Singapore, she relapsed they both end up in prison or worse. because she as an addict will throw him under the bus.
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
ohhhh. I get it. Since it’s punishable by stray there, she will be risking the death penalty if she gets caught. Certainly heroine addicts already realize they are risking death just by using tho
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
“By death there”.
avatar for eyeofodin
eyeofodin
7 years ago
My point is either she decides her life is more important than drugs or there is no helping her, It needs to be her decision to get and stay clean, and no outside force (and the threat of a life time in prison or death) or being "loved" would show her true value she places on herself as a sober person.

If his belief is she loves him and herself more than drugs , he should feel secure in knowing she will stay clean and if not, she will not throw him under the bus

It was more a commentary on how much he trusts and believes in her than the actual trip to Singapore. Any doubt in mind as to her ability to survive a trip there, then he has his answer.
avatar for ppwh
ppwh
7 years ago
> If his belief is she loves him and herself more than drugs

I don't think he holds any illusions about how much she loves him. He was super pissed the other month after she asked him "Don't you know it's all just a hustle?"

https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=5325…
avatar for SneakySecret2
SneakySecret2
7 years ago
It sounds like at this point the healthiest thing for both of you would be to help her find a healthy living situation where she could get the help she needs. But I’m not sure that’s still with you, as it sounds like there is a lot of dependency and maybe enabling going on ( from her perspective). As long as that’s there, she may never be able to move forward in life in a healthy manner, and that may prevent you from finding your own resolve.

You don’t have to take my advice, but to me it sounds like it’s time to move on and help both of you find healthy resolutions. Just my opinion.
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
7 years ago
She needs to hit rock bottom, and clubber is providing a safety net which is preventing that.

It's also possible for her rock bottom is jail or a grave, unfortunately. Addiction sucks and is sad.
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
7 years ago
Sorry, gawker, not clubber
avatar for scgato
scgato
7 years ago
Rock bottom for junkies is street whore. No recovering from $20 BJ and $40 FS with no condom.
avatar for Htxx
Htxx
7 years ago
I love my stripper too. So frustrating because it's not the up and downs. It's the ins and outs for me! But I'm not in my 70's either. Gawker ive said it before, do whatever the fuck you want to do and enjoy your life bro. Hope I'm still getting great pussy when I'm in my 70's too
avatar for GACA
GACA
7 years ago
Ya Gawker makes me feel very fortunate indeed. Loving an addict is a death sentence for both involved.

I had an older brother who for decades cause nothing but sorrow for my family. We loved him wanted to help him couldn't understand how he turned out that... Blah blah blah. I finally told myself and my family that I was thru. Love has to be a two way street. He loves drugs. He doesn't care about shit else. His brain has been hijacked he is not the same person we all love and grew up with. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

18 years layer met a stripper we hit it off. Yeah and where did hit it off it was like she was talking to my soul. Ya like we were soulmate. I never believed in that before. She got popped for an outstanding warrant. Talked to her damn near every day she was in jail (about $650 in a month for a little over two months). She got out, moved in with me. I ignored some sign that I can clearly see now. Anyways 11 days after she got out she OD. Tore my heart out of my chest.

Still I got lucky. That shit could have gone a few years and I'm sure I was so in love I would have gone along for the disaster of a ride.
avatar for GACA
GACA
7 years ago
Sorry using speech to text... God I must mumble when I speak or something
avatar for gawker
gawker
7 years ago
Some wisdom in these statements. I am seeing a therapist and he says my "relationship" with her is self destructive and I should drop her and run. I'm afraid she's bought into the "me too" philosophy but as we talk about our feelings it's clear that neither of us loves the other. We like the other' company, we respect aspects of the other, but there's no love. She loves my money and I love her for sex.
She enjoys sex with hot guys occasionally, but right now can take it or leave it. She most definitely doesn't enjoy sex with me - she tolerates it. Occasionally she'll get off while we're dancing the horizontal mambo but usually she's just concentrating on my pleasure which is what a good sex worker will do. A couple of nights ago she let me man the vibrator and we both got wet.
She called a few detox facilities today and was unable to find a bed, so she bought dope from a trusted source (ha ha) and says it's garbage - been cut too many times. So she's anxious to get going tomorrow.
I know my shrink is right but like most addicts I want "just one more time".
So I guess I'll string it out for awhile ( she recently completed a month long rehab program and has been in longer ones before). She really has no other friends who can help her. If I throw her out her only choice is the couch in a studio apartment with a bisexual guy she worked with for a month about 4 months ago. She thinks he offered cuz he wants to get in her pants - she doesn't think they'll fit.
avatar for CJKent (Banned)
CJKent (Banned)
7 years ago
Gawker; happiness in life is perception, is a mental state, and more often can be expericed when you are at peace with yourself.
Your ATF is not at peace with herself, and given her mental problems, depression, bipolar, etc and trauma growing up, being sexualized at a young age, sexually abused, etc might never be at peace in the long run. But there are some moments when you both experience sexual satisfaction together, and perhaps for a moment are happy together. I bet also you both are happy sometimes in each other company, just talking or having dinner, or watching a movie or TV show or even walking.
Your ATF is unpredictable and you can't trust her, and she is the only one that can get sober if she really want to, in spite of costly recovery programs.
I believe that you dilemma is more than purely economic, even if you could afford her $150 or more a day, room and board etc, she would not be happy being a keep woman, she would still be looking for something to fill the void created in her life by experiences in her existense...
For reference, ny friend had a similar ATF. He, put his ATF in an apartment he signed a year lease, gave her thousands a month for her to be "stable" so she could get clean any get custody of her son back. End result she ran around with others wasted all the money in drugs for her an others caused damage to the apartment, etc etc etc. My friend was set to go all in and continue trying to help her, luckily for him a new ATF, nicer and better asked him to get back to her and he did.
In your case I said go "ALL IN"; with eyes wide open and realistic expectations for your own benefit and happiness, if that means sex often in exchange for what you are providing for her so be it.
I hope she sees that that is a good fare deal for her too and she should be happy with the deal, if she says or acts unhappy about the deal tell her deal is off and move on to a new better ATF.
In any case a do wish you and yo ATF
good luck and happy times together.
Please let us know about the next chapter in your fascinating life.
Again hope for the best and prepare yourself for the worst so there will be no surprises....
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
@ GACA, I’m so sorry. That’s such a tragic story.
avatar for georgmicrodong
georgmicrodong
7 years ago
@gawker, your last post in this thread acknowledges that you’re as much an addict as she is. The first step, blah blah blah.

I sincerely hope you can find a resolution to this whole thing man. It sounds like it’s getting more toxic by the day.
avatar for Cashman1234
Cashman1234
7 years ago
Gawker - I hope your atf gets sober - and maintains sobriety. I know very little about addiction. But I do know a bit about mental illness. In my view - the drugs have definitely made a mess of her brain - and he ability to think (and see) things rationally.

Maybe, if she maintains sobriety, she will adjust and see the world differently? I’m not sure if the effects of heroin addiction remain with someone long after they have reached sobriety.

She shouldn’t turn against you. She needs to take responsibility for her addiction. It’s possible - this recent me too movement has gotten her thinking. But, her logic might be clouded.

I agree, you are also somewhat addicted to sex with her. I view this from two perspectives: 1. I think it may be a form of compensation for being her source of housing and stability. 2. You enjoy the sex - it’s amazing - she knows how to pleasure you like few other women. It’s going to be difficult for you to cut ties too.

In the end, I think you both need to split. I hate to say it, as I think it will be more detrimental to her situation (if she can’t get her addiction under control). For you - it will be painful for a bit. But I think you will find another outlet.
avatar for GACA
GACA
7 years ago
@BJ99 ya it was a tragedy. Two if the most amazing people, so damn intelligent and truly kind hearted, life destroyed. Because they lived in a very harsh insensitive world with people always demanding things from them. Having to become something they are not and then turning to drugs to cope.

That's the real tragedy. And that's what hurts the most. All they really needed was an emotionally safe environment to develop and both would be fine and quite honestly incredible contributing members of society. My brother was a math genius (really like Einstein level) but my ghetto ass parents kept trying to make a tough man out if him. My soulmate, she was super creative artist but for real not fake shit. She was definitely molested when she was younger. Her mom was a keep it quiet type and no crying about it. So of course my baby went through life looking for love and acceptance and lived in a region where that kinda of personality is dangerous for a girl to have....

When we met she was filled with so much regret. Heartbreaking the entire thing. No offense but I wish a lot of these emotional brutes to hell. They are the most un—evolved pieces of human excrement and the reason their us suffering in the world.

Kk. Off my soap box
avatar for Bj99
Bj99
7 years ago
I do think ppl use drugs to self medicate when they can’t deal w their emotions. Thank you for sharing.
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
7 years ago
Gawker, I think that she needs help from someone, but you are not the right source for it.

First, because you are long past being able to erase the past and becoming a true moral authority for her. She will never see you as anything other than the guy who paid her for years to have sex and even went to extreme lengths at times to enable her behavior.

Second, and to some degree this is tied into the first, you are too weak to consistently enforce standards of behavior as a condition of your help and she knows it. Not only is this another reason why she can never view you as a moral authority, but it also gives her a constant escape hatch if staying clean and sober while living at your condo becomes too tough for her. All she has to do is suck your dick a couple of times and then she's good to go.

Shadow is right; she needs a long term rehabilitation program. All you are is a serial an enabler who will cave the very next time that her aversion to sucking old man dick is overpowered by her need to get high while keeping a place to live.
avatar for JohnSmith69
JohnSmith69
7 years ago
As much as I loathe agreeing with Rick, I agree that you should stop "helping" her. There's no way that you can live with her and not get sex. You've tasted that pussy too many times. But if you truly love her, then I'm sure you'll probably keep going. Just make sure that she doesn't drag you with her if this all comes crashing down.
avatar for realDougster
realDougster
7 years ago
"Join us again tomorrow, for "As the Gawker Turns"
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
7 years ago
JS posted: "As much as I loathe agreeing with Rick..."

I understand JS. You much prefer to come across as a creepy jackass by writing 500+ word essays romanticizing stripper pussy while liberally throwing around the term "dream stripper" for every decent looking girl who will take large amounts of your cash in exchange for sex. This has to be a painful diversion for you. Anything else you'd like to add? ;)

@gawker: Speaking of JS' dramatic tendency to romanticize stripper pussy, you have long been the poster boy for this. She is a drug addict that has been using you for money for a long time now and has damned near cleaned you out. I say this not to be even more of an a-hole than JS believes me to be, but to put the proper perspective around the guilt that you are feeling. At the very least, you used each other. Unlike the vincemichaels of the world, you did not find a 14 year old girl and shatter her innocence and screw up any chance of a normal life - this girl was well into her 20s when you met her and likely already using. It is also likely that, if you say "yes" to her request, she is just going to keep using you and will have a low chance of any real success. Just a few final thoughts on the topic.
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
Loving a stripper might not be that bad.

But loving a stripper and denying that that is what is going on, that's gonna be really bad.

SJG
avatar for gothamyte
gothamyte
7 years ago
One of the realist threads on here

Appreciate all comments and wisdom

Praying for everyone is all I can do
avatar for pensionking
pensionking
7 years ago
Addiction rarely exists in isolation. There is typically multiple levels of co-morbidity. Without years of therapy unraveling the other trauma contributing to the co-dependency, rehab will ultimately fail.

As much as I wish the best for gawker, especially with the hard road he has had to travel himself regarding his spouse, it is quite hard to imagine an outcome within which she gets and stays sober and he continues a sexual relationship with her.
You must be a member to leave a comment.Join Now