Contri Levels and Rating Weightings

rickdugan
Verified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Now that I am starting to see this shake out in practice, I am less than thrilled with the notion that historical contributions to the site have suddenly been completely devalued. Guys who have squeaked out a relative small number of reviews of a small number of clubs are getting contri ratings that are as high or higher than people who have contributed a lot of good review content over the years simply because they have managed to squeeze out a certain number in the last 12 months, which really is not a great feat given the publishing standards around here.

I have over 5 years of VIP membership in the bank, so the only thing really motivating me to continue writing reviews (besides the simple joy of contributing) is the notion that I can have some influence on the overall club ratings for many clubs, which I and certain others have earned through years of contributions covering a large number of clubs. I realize that using weightings based upon a short-term contri level is designed to motivate long timers to keep contributing, but for me it could have the opposite effect. If some new person can write 1-2 dubious reviews per month and be granted the same level of influence over the ratings AND I am sitting on a lot of VIP time anyway, then what's my motivation besides of course my boundless altruism? ;)

And to put a less selfish frame around this, long time members with lots of reviews are more likely better equipped to judge the relative merits of a club, which is yet another reason to continue to grant them added influence over a club's rating.

Is there any way that the club rating algorithm could be tweaked to include member influence based upon some combination of the contri-level and number of clubs reviewed over time? It seems to me that this would be the best of both worlds - giving newer members a chance to earn some influence while continuing to motivate longtime members with a lot of VIP time in the bank to keep contributing.

47 comments

Latest

rickdugan
7 years ago
I should also add that if you leave the club rating weightings based upon short-term activity alone, you may find that club ratings become much more susceptible to manipulation by interested parties. Just something to consider.
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
We need access to our old threads and posts restored!

SJG
TheeOSU
7 years ago
^
So you can continue to bump your off topic threads that nobody reads or responds to?
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
Old threads are what give this community its identity.

Is a gun being held to your head forcing you to read them?

SJG
TheeOSU
7 years ago
No gun and I still wouldn't read that rambling spam if someone did hold a gun to my head, creep!
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
So then you should have no reason to be concerned about it, asshole!

SJG
ppwh
7 years ago
I agree with rickdugan's points. I have seen an obvious club ad account leave nasty reviews for the clubs that are their primary competition and then a glowing review for the club they're shilling for.

If the contribution level gained by leaving 3 reviews in a month outweighed long-term legitimate reviewers, that would amplify the level of harm.
TheeOSU
7 years ago
Lol, I know it's useless to try explaining to you that your crap is off topic and of zero interest to 99.9% if the people here but you just like rambling, spamming, attention seeking, and agenda pushing and as long as you can get away with it you will continue to do so.
TheeOSU
7 years ago
And back on tpic, Rick and ppwh have valid points, the creep never does!
shadowcat
7 years ago
I hear ya. I went from a 10 contributor to a 6 after 17 years of posting reviews, topics, etc and that doesn't count the ones that I lost in 2007 when my entire account was forever deleted. I don't do as many reviews as I use to because I am retired and Follies is pretty hard to beat. Should I review Follies every 30 days?
twentyfive
7 years ago
I agree RD has reasonable points here not sure if I agree or disagree but definitely something to be considered.
founder
7 years ago
the longevity of a member (hehe) has been noted. I will work that into the contri level. I agree, people like shadow and papi should have a close to perfect contri-level. Please bear with me :)

realDougster
7 years ago
Let's hope this doesn't turn into a longevity measuring contest...
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
I think maybe Contributor Levels could depreciate due to a lack of recent activity. Of course the massive long termers like Papi and Shadow should still be rated very near the top.

But Trust Levels, I think they should not depreciate.

We need our old threads and posts, so that we are not always talking about the same stuff with new people, starting in a vacuum.

SJG
founder
7 years ago
well, I'm up to 1.42... guess I need to start reviewing more ;)
realDougster
7 years ago
Dad: So what do you want to be when you grow up, son?
Son: A massive long termer like Papi and Shadow
rickdugan
7 years ago
Lol. By longevity, I assume you mean the level of historical contributions rather than the amount of time the account has been open. Sorry to be a pain, but when I see people with 9+ contribution levels solely because they managed to squeeze out 17 reviews in the past 12 months while guys like Shadow are at 6, then I think we can all agree that there is something wrong. here is something wrong. For that matter, and admittedly much more selfishly, I don't think that a guy like that should have the same contri level that I do either after writing over 160 reviews of 118 clubs for this site.

But anyway, I'll stop having my tantrum in my high chair now, lol, and thank you again for everything that you continue to do here. :)
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
As I've posted b/f, Contri-levels and Trusts are flaky data that can be easily manipulated thus putting weight on it is putting weight on faulty data, IMO.

TUSCL is too-random for there to be solid data extrapolation - I agree that a PL's total body of PL-work is probably a good metric to go by, but this "may not" just mean longevity b/c there are lots of old accounts w/ little valuable data thus that should not be given much weight - again maybe total body of work including longevity (8" or more) perhaps will work well - but I still think there's too-much noise (garbage data) that can easily be given weight that shouldn't and why I don't feel weighting is the way to go - due to the randomness/flakiness of TUSCL, best to K.I.S.S.
realDougster
7 years ago
"maybe total body of work including longevity (8" or more) perhaps will work"

Easy for you to say, Mr. Massive Long Termer
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
^ trust me - I am definitely compensating via TUSCL
Bj99
7 years ago
Founder’s weighted trust rating would be harder to manipulate bc it was based on the contribution level of those who gave the trusts, as well as the number of trusts. I think it was on the right track.
gawker
7 years ago
The other side of the coin is that old reviews frequently don't reflect current status. Clubs change and accurate reviews need to be up to date.
flagooner
7 years ago
Personally, I'd love to see founder just create the algorithms the way he likes them and tell everyone to Fuck Off, if for no other reason than to put these complaints to an end. And it would be funny.
PeterEaster
7 years ago
@ gawker - Good point! If you were picking a restaurant, how much stock would you put in a 5 year old Yelp review?
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
In the end Founder usually makes an executive decision w/o telling us what he will do - he listens to input then does his thing.

There isn't gonna be consensus on here, there hardly ever is except MJ being the GOAT - in the recent past the complaint was w.r.t. old data not being relevant, today it's about old data being relevant - pros/cons to either side
realDougster
7 years ago
All of these threads on trusts, contri-levels, rating weightings, etc. have been absolutley fascinat

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

oh, sorry, must have nodded off...
Huntsman
7 years ago
Maybe we all have too much time on our hands, myself included.
flagooner
7 years ago
Michael Jackson is the King of Pop.

LeBron is the GOAT (in basketball).
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
+10 Trust Level Points for flagooner!

SJG
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
^ you're the GOAT of patronizing
twentyfive
7 years ago
If I have SJG on ignore flagooner didn’t get those points;)
skibum609
7 years ago
Is it possible for all of us to get participation medals and settle it that way??
ppwh
7 years ago
I don't see weighting the impact of long-term legitimate contributors is the same thing as whether new or old club reviews are more relevant. Not counting a review that's older than 12 months toward a score is a good idea, imo.

It sounds like what we're really going for is a "writes legit reviews" flag. The Couchsurfing website back in the day had a vouching system where only people who had been vouched for three times could vouch for others. Maybe something like that, seeded by founder vouching for known-legit reviewers would be the ideal way to go. Then whenever a vouched-for reviewer writes a review, give that review the weight of an unvouched reviewer during its 12 months relevance period toward club ratings.

ppwh
7 years ago
er, meant to say "give a vouched-for reviewer's review twice the weight of one from an unvouched-for reviewer, rather (or 2.7 times or etc...)"
shailynn
7 years ago
Like I said before, as long as I stay above twentyfive and Flagooner I'm good with the way it is.
flagooner
7 years ago
LOL. I don't think you'll have any problems there.
mjx01
7 years ago
# of clubs reviewed is important too. someone who only reviews the handful of clubs local to where they live just don't have the wisdom on someone who's clubbed in many different towns/states to appreciate the wide range of experiences possible as influenced by local regulations.
mjx01
7 years ago
as a side note... what a kick in the balls. My contri got beat down from 9.5 to 7.4. 8*(
mjx01
7 years ago
FWIW... I always found # of reviews and # of clubs to be really useful metrics in judging the quality of a review. The contri really obscures that imo.
rickdugan
7 years ago
mjx +1 - especially when they get contri credit for things like discussions/comments. I think that the changes that were made yesterday were certainly better but I would still like to see more weight given to cumulative historical contributions as I agree with your sentiment. Now there are exceptions, such as one guy who ran up his review count over many years by posting a bunch of shit reviews (he even did a review from a parking lot look, lol). But on the whole I would take reviews from papi, shadow, sinclair, and many of the bigger long-term contributors almost as gospel in terms of accuracy of conditions at the times that they visited.
twentyfive
7 years ago
@shailyn LOL but you need to watch SJG is gaining on you.
minnow
7 years ago
I agree with rick and mjx, yet can see how tweaking one key metric can screw up another metric.
When it comes to CLUB REVIEWS, I personally give more weight to more recent ones (say, within the last 1-3 months) vs reviews over 3 years old. Applying the same metric to a reviewers contribution level is not an apples to apples correlation, as I feel many contributions over a long period of time should count for something.
I'm not sure that factoring in the number of clubs reviewed would be an accurate metric either. Say you have 2 reviewers who have reviewed 20 different clubs. One lives in a large city metro area, another is a travelling salesman from a small metro area but has reviewed the same number of clubs in 10 different metro areas. I would give more credence to the later who has a broader perspective on things.
flagooner
7 years ago
When reading reviews I give more weight to those that don't mention specific names. I think mostly newbs do that.
Dolfan
7 years ago
I'm not really looking at it from the perspective of how my level is calculated, as I frankly don't care at all, but looking at it from the perspective of how much merit I would lend to a review from a particular reviewer.

I like the idea of recent reviews for clubs weighing more heavily in their ratings. I'm not sure I like the idea of recent reviewers weighing more heavily. Perhaps a balance? I'm not sure exactly how the logic would work, but perhaps something like a reviewer losing contri-level after being idle for an extended period but as long as they remain active I'd think I'd like to see their level remain high. The logic being #1 that long time reviewers are less likely to be trolls/shills, and that they have a greater depth/breath of knowledge.

I'll also add that an emphasis on a large number of reviewed clubs can be tricky. Minnow's example that he would give more credence to a reviewer who has reviewed clubs in many areas over a reviewer who has focused on one is a good example. I feel the exact opposite. When I'm reading reviews, I'm more interested a clubs relative merit vs nearby clubs over its relative merit over clubs in other areas. Not to say the latter isn't valuable, just not as valuable to me. A reviewer who has been to all the clubs in the area is going to help me decide which club to go to. I may consider one area vs another if I'm deciding to go to a SC at all in a particular area, but in truth we all know that's more of an inevitability. In short, I may feel a guy who has 50 reviews for 5 clubs has more useful info about those 5 clubs than a guy who has 50 reviews for 50 clubs.
RandomMember
7 years ago
"Is it possible for all of us to get participation medals and settle it that way??"
_____________
Best comment in the whole thread.
TheeOSU
7 years ago
I originally hadn't paid any attention to the contri levels but took a look yesterday when this thread started.I was @ 9.5, later last night I was @ 9.17, now I'm @ 9.02, WTF?
I suppose I should start complaining now. :D
minnow
7 years ago
LOL at the participation medals suggestion. Picture this: Tuscl conventions will look like a gathering of tinhorn dictators with everyone wearing a bunch of medals. Some will have so many medals, they'll have to pin them to their shorts.
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