Economics and Strippers (Lap Dance Prices)
wildbourbon
Front room DFK leads to your wife leaving you.
I had never been to a strip club prior to the end of the year 2013. In my area at that time, I could get a basic lap dance for $20 and a better-contact dance was $25. Over the last couple of years, dance prices in the region rose first to $30 and now they're creeping on $40 as the standard price. Of course YMMV depending on the girl and the club but basic dances are now $30-$40 and contact is not that great.
Over on SW, the girls are complaining about how dancing isn't as profitable as it used to be and it's hard to make as much money---all while insisting that every PL must pay $40 for the privilege of getting an air dance because many dancers have GPS.
For me, the lap dance market is out of equilibrium and I have almost completely eliminated my spending due to the current price trends. As an example, here is my economic scale in a non-extra environment,
1. $10 (a.k.a. the Phoenix). I'll buy dances until you ask me to take a break!
2. $20 After the first "test" dance, I'll negotiate to add 4 more dances (5/$100) and then tip you another $20 if the dances are great. This approach seems to make the girls happy and I almost always get the personalized service I enjoy.
3. $25 I negotiate this price (4/$100) when the going price is $30. Tipping and dancer selection become more important.
4. $30 or 3/$100. I've only done this 3-4 times and only with girls who have spent 1-2 hours drinking and visiting with me first. They earn it before I pay it.
5. $40 I'm never buying a dance. At this price, I'm more than happy to pay the entrance fee and do nothing but relax, tip at the stage, and drink if possible.
I take $500 cash each time I go to a club with the expectation I'll spend it having a good time. When I was new to the hobby and could get $20 dances, I easily went through $400 with dancers and felt mostly satisfied with my visits. With dances at $33-$40 each, I spend between $120 and $150 on a visit and it's about 50% entry/drinks and 50% stage tipping with lap dances out of the question.
What is your economic equilibrium for spending in the club?
Over on SW, the girls are complaining about how dancing isn't as profitable as it used to be and it's hard to make as much money---all while insisting that every PL must pay $40 for the privilege of getting an air dance because many dancers have GPS.
For me, the lap dance market is out of equilibrium and I have almost completely eliminated my spending due to the current price trends. As an example, here is my economic scale in a non-extra environment,
1. $10 (a.k.a. the Phoenix). I'll buy dances until you ask me to take a break!
2. $20 After the first "test" dance, I'll negotiate to add 4 more dances (5/$100) and then tip you another $20 if the dances are great. This approach seems to make the girls happy and I almost always get the personalized service I enjoy.
3. $25 I negotiate this price (4/$100) when the going price is $30. Tipping and dancer selection become more important.
4. $30 or 3/$100. I've only done this 3-4 times and only with girls who have spent 1-2 hours drinking and visiting with me first. They earn it before I pay it.
5. $40 I'm never buying a dance. At this price, I'm more than happy to pay the entrance fee and do nothing but relax, tip at the stage, and drink if possible.
I take $500 cash each time I go to a club with the expectation I'll spend it having a good time. When I was new to the hobby and could get $20 dances, I easily went through $400 with dancers and felt mostly satisfied with my visits. With dances at $33-$40 each, I spend between $120 and $150 on a visit and it's about 50% entry/drinks and 50% stage tipping with lap dances out of the question.
What is your economic equilibrium for spending in the club?
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88 comments
Most of the clubs I go to have a cover charge around $15, about half have valet which usually runs around $10 after tip and I expect to pay around or just under $10 for a drink after tip.
I try to not be tied in to a single club (and a single clubs pricing). There are a significant number of clubs in my area - so I move to the clubs that offer the most extras per dollar.
I will bring $500 with me each visit. Generally I spend $300-400 of it. I prefer $20 lap dances - with extras negotiated and handled via a larger tip (which should all go to the dancer).
The cost of inflation should impact dance prices. If the cost of a dance isn't adjusted - then it makes sense that the dancer would make less (before tips).
With dances - I always tip. I'm not sure if clubs think that customers will tip more due to the dance prices being low? It seems dangerous - as not everyone understands the need to tip a dancer.
I went to Oasis yesterday to watch some football. Met a dancer I hadn't met before. She was very friendly, sat with me and talked. I spent $50 on food and drinks (30 me, 20 her). Spent $70 on 7 VLM (not air dances, but nothing to write TUSCL about) dances. Tipped her on stage a couple times.
Spent about 100 on her. Got 2.5hrs of time (she was very nice company to sit with; flirty, casual touching, we talked about magnetic fields and other nerdy stuff) and 7 dances. If that 70 I spent on dances was only going to get me 2-3 dances, I wouldn't have bothered.
Now, at $10, they take lengthy breaks, playing with their phones, then circle the club looking for a willing customer. It’s less work for them but probably less revenue as well.
but i'm an area that only has 7 clubs, so there's not any competition. i'm assuming that's why they can get away with these prices.
i've occasionally been to other areas like atlanta in which you can get good dances at very good rates, but most of the clubs i've been to (even the ones outside of virginia), offer dances in blocks of time.
it's too bad that most strippers don't understand this economic principal.
+ @ $20/dance I'm more picky and don't pull the dance-trigger so readily
+ @ $25/dance even more picky
+ never done a $30+ dance/club and have no desire to unless it's more of a "let me see what this club is all about"
At least in most of the Miami $25/dance mixed-clubs, I often see lots of spectators taking in the show but not buying many if any dances - I can only assume if prices went up there'd be even more spectators - dancers thinking that more expensive dances means more $$$ I think may be in for a rude awakening (at least in many areas/clubs) - in $10/dance clubs (e.g. Follies, Inner Room) I often see dances being sold like hot-bread and the LD areas occupied - the clubs w/ more expensive dances i often see the LD areas less occupied.
If I'm on the fence about hitting the SC, I'll usually go if it's $10/dance but $20+/dance there will be more instances of me staying home if I'm on the fence about going.
Some clubs in some areas may be able to get away w/ expensive dances but most wont, IMO/IME
This was why I actually went on-line to TUSCL and StripperWeb. It was: you mean to tell me the dancers haven't gotten a RAISE in 20 years. Yup, they haven't.
And to boot, stage fees, per dance share, and tip outs are higher. And expectations of contact and extras (bang-for-you-buck) is higher than ever.
I and to make sure that I wasn't missing something. Like was the expected tip, say, 50% ?? Nope. If anything no tip is expected. So no, I WASN'T missing anything.
I think the market just values strippers less than it used to. Good for PLs. Not so good for dancers. Though they can still make a decent living.
I find the clubs with high dance prices are also the most pretentious, usually upscale gentlemens clubs. The dancers are spoiled by whales perhaps and more prone to gps as a result. This leads to lackluster service overall as well as dances. Usually not worth the prices.
$10 dances makes it easy to try out a variety of dancers. You never know when you'll find a diamond you may not know was there. At higher prices I'll be extremely picky.
When I was in the Chicago area, I noticed many of the non extras clubs had $30 dances. I had no interest in going there at that price point even to check it out.
Yes its the norm. Guess what they all have in common?
It just seems like they should have gotten a cost of living increase or something. But that's not the correct way to evaluate it.
I have noticed, though, that $20 or $30 prices are posted on the wall but the girls are uniformly quoting $10 over the club price. I have come across girls who bitch about other girls charging the poster price.
In my area, it seems like dances always used to cost exactly $20 since the dawn of time. $5 would go to the club, $15 to the girl. Then the economy began slowly improving around 2015, and I noticed a few clubs quietly raised their standard price to $25. I'm not sure what the split is at that price point. But my favorite club has been the one outlier, as it's always charged $30, with a 20-10 split in the dancer's favor. But it's still a great value to me, because every dance is basically a mini-VIP, behind a locked door.
I don't have the same disposable income today than I did before the dot com crash and 9/11. I think a lot of customers are in the same boat, making today's prices harder to justify.
Its not likely that customers will go to the better business bureau over whether a lap dance price decrease is really a price decrease.
In the booming 90s, a few upscale clubs tried going to $20 a dance, but enough stayed at $10, all the custies went to the $10 clubs (and the dancers followed). The $20 clubs caved and went back to $10.
After the dot.bomb bust, a few clubs tried $5 per dance to stir up business, but it didn't help. People with no money can't buy dances no matter how cheap they are. So, they went back to $10.
30 years later, they are still $10. (Except for the $20 couch dances that naive custies end up paying at Follies.)
@BHF Around here, there is no "per dance" split. The girls pay various tip outs to the house, the DJ (I fucking hate this one, as most DJs are douche bags), the bartenders, etc. The girl I sat with yesterday made enough off me to cover her tip outs, so whatever she made after I left would be her take home (and I doubt she made much more cause I was one of only 3 or 4 guys spending any money).
VIPs are typically set up with a room charge that goes to the club and a dancer fee that goes straight to the dancer. At Oasis, a waitress collects the room fee, so you end up having to tip the waitress too. If you don't, she'll show up in the middle of your time asking if you want any drinks. Another $10 to the bouncer keeps him away, too.
Follies collects the house tip out at the beginning of the shift, so dancers there start "in the hole". They have to come to work with cash in hand. Observations seem to indicate bar and DJ tip outs are done during shift.
Here in Detroit, the upscale clubs charge $25/song and all the mid-tiers and dives charge $20/song. I think there is at least one club that charges $15/song.
I've been to one club a few too many times where dances are $20/song, but a lot of the girls offer dances with two-way contact for $40/song. There is no way I am paying $40/song just so I can touch some tits and ass.
When I lived in Wisconsin, one of my local clubs would charge $20/song topless and $40/song nude. Since I was a newbie, I did pay $40 for nude lap dances a few times. Then, once I learned the club offered 3-for-$80 nude dances, I would go with that option instead. But still, even with that volume discount, I would only get dances with one dancer and the rest of my money would be spent on the cover charge, drinks and stage tips.
The VIP was either $10 or $15. With the right dancer, anything was possible. If you looked around the room ( it was pretty open), it was like an orgy scene.
Of course, that was at least 10 years ago. After a few years of this Golden Age, the city shut them down. Unlike today, the Internet wasn’t as pervasive and the word about the CS didn’t spread widely, which was great for those of us in the know.
Then I parcel out my money based on how I feel. It kind of enforces a self regulating payout per dance. Kind of. It took many times of over paying and feeling like shit about it later but I have a better sense of what is a worthwhile expenditure as I've gotten older.
So I have one stripper that I like fairly well and she charges $10 over the going rate at that club. I pay her what she wants per dance because I think she is worth it. But she still only gets the same soft cap total by the time I'm ready to leave.
With my ATF DS and for dance costs only, I will spend on average $85 for some civie spooning and teasing time followed by three high mileage LDs w/LDK. $75 for the dances + $10 tip. Also it really varies from $55 to $165 from night to night which varies between 2 dances to 1/2 hr VIP, respectively.
If I go to a new club I will bring $300 but my goal is to spend $200 or less for LDs/VIP.
I believe the all-black clubs like Pantheon and HTs are $10 per 2-way contact topless dances
I'll usually get at least 3-songs if her dances are just ok and give her $20 - but usually get 4 to 6 dances in a row and give her b/w $30 and $40, respectively, so she can at least make a little something off of me - not uncommon for me to have an ebony I really like on lock-down for 30-minutes straight of full-nude 2-way dances and at times up to an hour straight (for 30-minutes I'll give her b/w $60 and $80 and for an hour about $100); and they seem appreciative of w/e $$$ I spend since 90% of the dudes in there won't buy a single dance at even $5/dance.
I love variety thus like getting w/ as many dancers as I can afford and find attractive - on an avg visit i'll get w/ about 5 different dancers and a good visit b/w 5 &10 different dancers.
After this type of indulging it's hard for me to get dances at $20+ since I would not be able to indulge as I usually do and accustomed to - and I'm not the type to stick to a single dancer and strecth my $$$ by just getting a few dances or spacing them out; nor do I like to sit there just being a spectator and not enjoying dances - thus anything over $20/dance is hard for me to be ok w/ since I would not enjoy my SCing as I like to and would not be satisfied as I usually am.
I'm traveling in the upper Midwest this week and most of the clubs here in MN are at least $20 on the floor. Not nearly the same value
The typical $300 pocket cash I club with in AZ often gets me a BJ or OTC action. Not so much outside AZ.
I went to Houston, TX for a weekend to see family and searched on TUSCL reviews and prices across the board were pretty much $20 - $30 lap dance and $40 up VIP best I remember. I ended up going to one club and sure enough lap dances were $20. I was on a tight budget that night, but I just couldn't bring myself to paying $20 per lap dance. And I can say I loved those TX girls, more body!
At SLG I hold out for the two for $35. One place I like does three for $40, but it's too far away to go there frequently.
I guess that was kind of my point with the OP. In my experience girls are trying to maximize their profit per dance and to do so they often quote a price higher than what the club requires/posts. What they don't seem to realize is that by raising their prices above a certain point, they actually sell fewer dances and in most cases probably end up making less than they would if they kept their prices at the club price.
I can't remember how many dancers have complained about not selling any dances that night (SS) and when I ask about dance prices, they quote me something above what's posted around the club. They never seem to get the connection between an increase in price (especially above the advertised price) and the decrease in dances sold. If the initial price is too high, they miss out not only on customers who may buy multiple dances but probably a lot of customers who can only afford a single dance to begin with.
I guess you could describe the above as a Follies type dance (how long is the average Follies dance and do most of the girls wait till the next song?), but without the BS/SS of girls not getting naked on the first dance and generally allowing free roaming and kitty play and general nipple sucking and eventual LDK (for those that want that) for about 2-3 times the cost of a Follies dance. No brainer, you say, just go to Follies. But the physical talent at Follies is supposedly slipping if it was every truly great and the flavor is tending to become much more Cuban (often ROBs) in general and mostly black or Cuban at night time with a little more white in the daytime. So if your first preference was non-hispanic white 9+ girls, how many of those could you find in a Follie's day shift let alone a night shift? And of course, Follies is its own animal, one of the truly great values in all of the US.
i know someone (Papi of course, and maybe one other) mentioned $5(!) nude dances. How long are those dances and are those floor or table dances? I don't know of any place that has full nude, full length, full contact "private" (off the floor/table) dances from mostly high caliber dancers for $10 outside of the aforementioned Follies and i'm not sure if they're on the floor only except for the row of couches or how long the songs usually are nor what the aveage talent is these days.
Detroit also supposedly has tremendous value, but it's not in the lappers apparently since those mostly cost $20-25 and they're almost all topless too and i doubt they're full length either. And again if you're first preference was 9+ white girls, there won't be a plethora of those or any 9+ girls in that area. I don't want to sound prejudiced, but it's not hard to find black value strippers anywhere in the country, even Chicago (Arnie's, Fantasy, the former Skybox). If that's your first and by far first preference (ahem, Papi), more power to you you and happy SCing. But for much of the country, they are in the least demand but over represented and price themselves accordingly, extras included.
I just think there are numerous qualifications that need to be met before you say a $30 (or $20+) dance is worth it or not. I, being in the supposed PL's nightmare of Chicago, don't have much of a choice, and yet i feel that i'm able to get close to what i described at least some of the time i SC.
There are girls that will try to start mid-song, but not all. I've met a few that will go ahead and get naked while waiting for next song, or start their stick shifting early.
Nipple sucking is not something I've done on the floor, except the occasional moment where a girl sticks her nipple close to my mouth and I get a quick lick or kiss in. I'm usually sitting on a stool, so her boobs and my mouth are at inconvenient heights.
I haven't seen many 9s or 10s at Follies. The ones I have seen have allowed at least some floor mileage, but either don't do VIP or ask for higher prices.
Follies is definitely the exception, both locally and nationwide, for how much mileage you can get on the floor during $10 dances.
The kind of lap dances you describe should probably be compared to VIP sessions in a club like Oasis or Mardi Gras, where there is no substantial mileage on the floor.
Dayshift VIP at Oasis will cost you around $200 for half an hour (25 room, 150 girl, waitress/bouncer tip). Depending on song length, this is 7-10 songs. At $30 per song, that would be $210-$300. Mardi Gras prices are similar.
However, the mileage is so YMMV it may not be the bargain it appears to be. Doing VIP with a 9 or 10 at Oasis or Mardi Gras is no guarantee you will get anything beyond boob squeezing and ass rubbing/grinding. DIY and FIV seemed to get fairly common, and I did get a few HJs when I was doing VIPs on more regular basis. I've heard stories of more, and seen used condoms in VIP, but have never encountered a dancer that's gone that far. I've gotten propositioned by 6s implying they would go that far, but was never willing to take a $200 risk on a 6.
Anyway, thanks for your answers.
Portland had jack shack places where you can do this too, but the GD is the only strip club with the DIY option.
As far as I'm concerned it is a total rip off. If I want to jack off I'm watching porn in my man cave. At a club I want 2way contact and a stripper rubbing in my dick OTP.
2) The *internal* strife among you dancer folks is amazing. And not just between other people in the comments part here, a ton of ire dished out at the authors from behind your little privacy wall. I have fun picking on cheap customers, but I see little here. Every attack lobbed at him has easily been swatted away.
I would be only one in a long, long line of people to suggest that perhaps the radicalized dancer is her own worst enemy.
Which Facebook group? I’m currently in Barbie Army, but a couple in there are giving Austin intel that’s inaccurate.
On the topic, most clubs in Texas have $20 dances. And there’s a few dives that will offer $5 or $10 specials at certain times.
High cover charges and drink prices impact strippers profits negatively unless its a very touristy area with huge customer turnover rates.
Expensive dance prices mean a stripper will either have to look good enough to sell herself at that rate and or she has to attract tricks to the stage. She can make most of her money on the stage at clubs like that. More than with dances.
Expensive VIP gives her an opportunity to really hustle main floor dances and make the trick think he's saving so much.
A lot of strippers don't put enough thought into though. Most assume that the highest paid option will make them the most and its just not true.
I have a side bitch who averages $600 a day on day shift where they have $10 dance specials, drink specials and a free lunch buffet. She's made $800 to $1500 on great days and averages $1000 on good days. The place attracts lots of construction workers and gardeners and shit who get paid in cash every day.
In my particular PL-case; more often than not I actually spend more $$$ when dance-prices are low than when they are high b/c I feel I am getting worthwhile value whereas as high dance-prices may cause me to sit on the sidelines per se.
@nicespice It wasn’t Barbie army. Not sharing the name of the group here for obvious reasons.
Wages have been pretty stagnant since the 70s and the majority of PLs earn by the hour. if you didnt know, people that go to strip clubs and have real money (or shakers) are going to keep a low profile because strippers are a liability. if wages would go up on par with inflation you probably wouldnt be stripping.
And if you're making so much $$$ why do you have such a negative attitude.
Last time I went clubbing regularly was in the '90s and nude dances were $15 and topless was $20. I punched $20 into the inflation calculator a few years ago, saw ~$40, so that's what I was expecting, give or take. To my surprise, the prices were still $15. Had the dancers not gotten a raise in 20 years? I guess so.
Would I have paid $50/dance, if that was the market price here? Well, yes. But I've never seen one.
Now, the dances here post-2008 Ohio (I think) laws combined with city ordinances seem to limit nude club severely (do they exist?) and topless clubs are really pasties with bikini dances. I don't appreciate it that I don't currently have the option (short of an escort!) to get a full nude dance. Would I pay more for full nude? I might. I have no interest in VIP though.
Thank you to nice spice for bringing up that everything has changed over the last 20 years, prices and costs of living and wages have inflated. You all also expect more from us in a dance so why should it be surprising that prices have gone up?
In some clubs, $5 to $10 goes to the house per song, some clubs require you tip the dj 20% of your earnings, and where I primarily work, my house fee is $180 not including tip out—this price has inflated over the years. We cannot do anything about what we are charged by our clubs.
But also, fair and reasonable negotiation is a thing. Where I live girls charge $40 a song, my price is $30. If someone insists on getting $20 dances I say sure, if you will do five.
To the OP who said you expect a girl to spend two hours talking to you for you to buy a 3 for $100?????????? Please enjoy your crappy dances with brand new girls who don’t know how to grind, I don’t know of any dancer who is any kind of desirable and knows how to take care of you who would sit with you for that long for $33 a song. Yikes, man.
I balked at the idea of going to a club mentioned earlier because of its $30 dances, but then considered all that went into the dances and figured they were worth the 'extra' $5. I can't ever see myself spending more than that on a dance. Places here in central PA differ greatly in pricing. Some charge $10, some charge $20. Some do 45 minute dances - they call them VIPs, but they're not - for $80. I was interested in checking out Platinum Plus until I saw they charge $30 topless and $40 nude. Other than the place referenced at the beginning of this paragraph, I can't see myself getting dances anywhere under a structure that is or averages out to more than $25 a song - which takes me out of ever going to NO unless Passions survives all this nonsense.
Even at $5 a dance, I'm not saying yes to anyone I'm not interested in or who I think is just alright. If I'm curious about someone, maybe because I see her giving a lot of dances, I'll try her out...but I'd do that at $25. The cutoff is quicker, though. I got an underwhelming dance at the $30 spot and cut her off at 1. Then again, I've done that at $10 too.
The money doesn't really matter once I'm inside: it's about entertainment and time. All the cost considerations come beforehand.