Gee, I bet the responses here will be a little different than those on the pink site. And this is one of the few subjects where their views are more valid because it doesn't really matter what we think. The strippers are the judges that matter on this issue.
My guess is: a PL can be a RIL. But a creep can't be a RIL.
A creep sits at pervert row each time he enters a SC and pesters each girl as she gets on stage.
A PL sits at the bar in the back of the club or a booth and hopes a girl comes by to talk to him.
A creep is ultra-cheap, can't be trusted, doesn't respect others and has hidden motives. A PL is closer to a walking ATM for a dancer with basic skills. LOL!
Hmmm...I would assume a creep either just gives a girl bad vibes, looks weird, takes action on something she views as innapropriate (aka Trump style) or askes her to do something way outside her bounderies.
Oh...I would think you can be both but a PL does not have to be a creep. They are mutually exclusive but I suppose to be a creep maybe you have to be a PL...
I use discretion about such entries. But so far, the girls have really loved it. They make it obvious right then, and in the morning. Many have made it clear that they expect such.
Original idea I got from Margaret Attwood's semi-autobiographical novel Cat's Eye.
:)
A PL gets his only sexual gratification in the strip club. A creep is so offensive that he is disliked in the strip club.
SJG
Knock Three Times - Tony Orlando and Dawn youtube.com
A guy who only sees women in the strip club is crippled in some way, there is some reason he cannot fuck women in his own bed. Most of the time it's because he is either married or unemployed or both. And of course the girls have radar for this. So without any malice intended, at least until he can remedy the situation, he is a PL.
Most of the dancers in strip clubs are quite available and bedable, and they have above average interpersonal skills. Two strip club visits maximum, and you should be seeing the girl on the outside and quickly getting her to your own bed.
A creep though is quite different. He may be single and well employed. But there is something about his manner that irritates women and even makes them feel justified in circling the wagons and opposing him.
Best example of this is in the movie Zorba the Greek.
Zorba walks into something like a singing club / brothel. Looks around, spends no money, turns around and walks out. Girl runs out of the club and chases after him. For the rest of his trip to the city they are together.
Girls dance in such places, but only 1 in 1000 guys has real interest in seeing them outside.
I don't particularly like when customers just come in and watch and never spend any money, but I don't feel like they are creeps unless they are also rude, or they have the attitude that we are bitches for not sitting w them and talking instead of working.
Mostly, I'd consider a creep to be a customer who isn't worth the money, and who I only approach if I'm having a really slow day. There's some guys I avoid completely.
@Bj99 just like you said there are some customers that you avoid, there are some strippers that I avoid. Mostly the ones that jump on you as soon as you walk in the door and launch into their spiel about how slow it is and they haven't made any money and all of their bullshit. If I had any interest in hearing them unload all over me I would open up a counseling office, I usually walk in after a day in my business and if she can't figure it out, that I don't want to hear unhappy shit, she needs to GTFOH because that is my typical reaction to one of those hot messes. There are plenty of strippers that don't do that though, that's what keeps me coming back. BTW I do spend some money.
This topic reminds me of this porn clip I watched a few years back.
A guy is watching this girl in the parking lot and then following her as she heads back to her apartment. Girl notices him and confronts him: "What the fuck are you doing you fuckin weirdo?" Guy is like "Oh, no. It's not like. That I just wanted to fuck you." Girl: "Oh, oh... Okay. I didn't know. I thought you were some kind of weirdo..." And, of course, she fucks him.
So the generic PLs are the guys who just want to fuck the strippers and be done with it. The creeps are the weirdos looking for real intimacy with strippers. Hmmmm... I wonder if there are any weirdos on this board.
Yeah 25, now that I think of it, strippers can be pretty creepy. I guess they are harder to avoid in there too lol. I wouldn't give a single one of them a ride. We even had one who was very strong and kinda rapey to the other girls.
I see PLs as the equivalent of marks in wrestling. Not smarks, just marks. They buy everything the girl is selling and hand over the cash like it grows on trees. "Oh, she really does like me." "I will get way better service in this heavily monitored club if I go to VIP and give $300 to the guy watching the security cameras of all the rooms." That sort of thing. PLs don't break the rules, or don't know how. PLs get disappointed if the girl they got dances with the last time they were at the club isn't there. PLs just go along for the ride.
Creeps, meanwhile, live outside the boundaries of normalcy somehow. It usually starts with behavior. PLs are fairly normal looking and acting. Creeps are a little off. They came to the club in dingy clothes or can't hold a decent conversation with a dancer. They don't seem to "get it" in some way and make people nervous accordingly.
Most club patrons are on the PL spectrum. Creeps tend to either get avoided by dancers and/or say or do something to get kicked out, probably asking the lines of breaking the rules or asking about sex almost immediately. Many creeps may also have a mental health issue.
I think TUSCLers, at least the non-trolls, tend to be smarks. We know the game and what it's about, but we still enjoy it and get what we want out of it. We know what's fake and what's real, and sometimes we buy the fake if it's really good. We have our PL moments, and maybe even were PLs once, but now play the game a little more wisely. We don't just want our guy to win the title belt, we want good writing, characters and performance. We don't just go for the thrill of the club, we want a great grind, good atmosphere and maybe a shot at something ITC/OTC. We're neither PLs nor creeps. We're our own breed.
Dougster hits on something good. Sometimes it will be just the key that fits the lock when a girl just understands that you want to fuck her.
Once in an AMP, a girl was resistant to DFKing. Then I told that I really liked her dark skin, and the way she did her eye makeup ( extreme ). After that she was full throttle and it was a mind blowing phenomenal session. A couple weeks later when I came back, they were all still talking about that last session of mine.
Sometimes a girl just needs to know what is driving you, why you are doing what you are doing, and wanting to fuck her is an honorable intention.
Usually girls don't mind if you hit on them. But if you follow them around, that really bothers them and they are very sensitive to that.
So I like to hit on girls in indoor shopping malls. But I limit myself, one passby, then one moving towards her to see her other side, then I have to decide yes or no, and if yes, approach on that second pass.
No more passes. And don't let a situation develop where I am having to follow her into the parking lot. If she is going for the outside door, move fast and act before she exits.
Usually results are good.
But too many guys are chicken, and so though it is not their intent, they end up following girls around.
PL, the way I understand it, is the tongue-in-cheek name the customers on strip club message boards gave to themselves a long time ago. It is used synomymously with customer.
^^^^ I think it is more than tongue-in-cheek, based on the recognition that very often strip club regulars have serious problems in their lives, which make it hard for them to see strippers or other women outside.
As far as creeps, as I see it, women usually are approachable. But they don't like guys who just leer at them, or especially guys who follow them around. So in a strip club, PL's are welcome, but creeps are not.
Yes, this sounds like it was good, abstinence from alcohol and tobacco. But some of it also did become part of the Nazi Party. And this sort of thing, fascist and racial supremacy in back to nature movements, is still going on in Germany today. And this is there in the origins of FKK too.
Nature Boy - Easy piano lesson (Part 1) youtube.com
Okay, this guy plays literally what is written, and on a piano.
So E -> Eb D-> Db. So I might have to re-evaluate some of the vocalists.
But this guy makes big adjustments, more like his is accompanying a vocalist, rather than playing the melody.
'Nature Boy' - jazz piano tutorial youtube.com
Okay, these guys keep the melody on the guitar, and he doesn't play exactly as written
Nature Boy - guitar & piano Jazz cover youtube.com
Possibly. But a guy who is neither PL or Creep, will want to line up mistresses, and one of the ways to do this, besides selecting carefully and getting to know them, is to approach the money in an easy going way and get the girl into seeing it as just a show of respect and care, rather than strict P4P. So it could even evolve into depositing a check to her land lord in the box each money. Maybe even having one's company pay that with untaxed funds. ( anyone here done this, and willing to admit to it? )
Anyway, if you agree to the dance, you will have to pay.
So the only issue, is which way makes it better, pay first or pay after. You can't force people to do intimate acts. If she likes you and sees you as a good guy, it will be better.
Buying dances is for chumps. Front room make out session. Never be so stupid as to believe that your money can buy sex acts of any quality.
Don't have sex with any girls who would not be perfectly happy to fuck you all night for free.
@Papi_Chulo a dancer's boyfriend treats her like shit, and he doesn't pay her. Does that mean the dancer boyfriend is lower on the totem pole in society than the creep?
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last commentOne is in the club, and the other is outside the club.
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Gee, I bet the responses here will be a little different than those on the pink site. And this is one of the few subjects where their views are more valid because it doesn't really matter what we think. The strippers are the judges that matter on this issue.
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Very little difference -- with the exception that PLs pay for sex and don't understand that they're engaging in prostitution.
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I'm just a PL. The other guys in the club are creepy.
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My guess is: a PL can be a RIL. But a creep can't be a RIL.
A creep sits at pervert row each time he enters a SC and pesters each girl as she gets on stage.
A PL sits at the bar in the back of the club or a booth and hopes a girl comes by to talk to him.
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See any of san jose guy's posts, lloyd Schoene is a workd class creep.
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A creep is ultra-cheap, can't be trusted, doesn't respect others and has hidden motives. A PL is closer to a walking ATM for a dancer with basic skills. LOL!
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Hmmm...I would assume a creep either just gives a girl bad vibes, looks weird, takes action on something she views as innapropriate (aka Trump style) or askes her to do something way outside her bounderies.
As Flagoneer says its all her perspective...
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Oh...I would think you can be both but a PL does not have to be a creep. They are mutually exclusive but I suppose to be a creep maybe you have to be a PL...
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A PL is dependent on the strip club for his sexual gratification.
A creep is way beyond that, so offensive that he is disliked in the strip club.
SJG
London, Windmill Theater
arthurlloyd.co.uk
arthurlloyd.co.uk
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A PL is a Creep with a modicum of social skills.
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^^^ A creep will wake his girl up in the middle of the night by entering her without consent for sex, right SJG?
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I use discretion about such entries. But so far, the girls have really loved it. They make it obvious right then, and in the morning. Many have made it clear that they expect such.
Original idea I got from Margaret Attwood's semi-autobiographical novel Cat's Eye.
:)
A PL gets his only sexual gratification in the strip club. A creep is so offensive that he is disliked in the strip club.
SJG
Knock Three Times - Tony Orlando and Dawn
youtube.com
Eden Ahbez - Nature Boy
youtube.com
d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net
Jon Hassel
youtube.com
Celine Dion, the one I like.
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Miles Davis, melody played on xylophone. Can't play the sharpened Eb and Db at all.
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Natalie Cole
youtube.com
Church of Satan
churchofsatan.com
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@js69: lol! Nailed it.
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Ya, JS69 wins this thread
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A creep is someone women genuinely dislike.
A guy who is dependent on strip clubs for his sexual gratification, ITC only, is a PL. But such strip club regulars are often liked.
SJG
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Hate that word creep
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I just adopted a new stripper, her dog is a PL she is a creep.
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A guy who only sees women in the strip club is crippled in some way, there is some reason he cannot fuck women in his own bed. Most of the time it's because he is either married or unemployed or both. And of course the girls have radar for this. So without any malice intended, at least until he can remedy the situation, he is a PL.
Most of the dancers in strip clubs are quite available and bedable, and they have above average interpersonal skills. Two strip club visits maximum, and you should be seeing the girl on the outside and quickly getting her to your own bed.
A creep though is quite different. He may be single and well employed. But there is something about his manner that irritates women and even makes them feel justified in circling the wagons and opposing him.
SJG
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Its in going beyond those two strip club visits, getting friendly with a girl, that a guy shows himself to be a PL.
SJG
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Best example of this is in the movie Zorba the Greek.
Zorba walks into something like a singing club / brothel. Looks around, spends no money, turns around and walks out. Girl runs out of the club and chases after him. For the rest of his trip to the city they are together.
Girls dance in such places, but only 1 in 1000 guys has real interest in seeing them outside.
SJG
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It's simple, if you have enough money to keep her happy your a PL. If you don't have enough money your a creep.
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Strippers will meet PLs OTC, they won't meet creeps OTC, because they already have their boyfriends for that category.
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A creep is someone that grabbed her by the pussy without paying.
A PL pays her.
An asshole is the guy she married.
may not apply 100%.
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difference between a pl and a creep? MONEY.
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Strippers can be creeps too.
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^^^ Ain't that the truth!
They creep around looking for cash, and ignore you do you don't give it to them.
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I don't particularly like when customers just come in and watch and never spend any money, but I don't feel like they are creeps unless they are also rude, or they have the attitude that we are bitches for not sitting w them and talking instead of working.
Mostly, I'd consider a creep to be a customer who isn't worth the money, and who I only approach if I'm having a really slow day. There's some guys I avoid completely.
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@Bj99 just like you said there are some customers that you avoid, there are some strippers that I avoid. Mostly the ones that jump on you as soon as you walk in the door and launch into their spiel about how slow it is and they haven't made any money and all of their bullshit. If I had any interest in hearing them unload all over me I would open up a counseling office, I usually walk in after a day in my business and if she can't figure it out, that I don't want to hear unhappy shit, she needs to GTFOH because that is my typical reaction to one of those hot messes. There are plenty of strippers that don't do that though, that's what keeps me coming back. BTW I do spend some money.
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This topic reminds me of this porn clip I watched a few years back.
A guy is watching this girl in the parking lot and then following her as she heads back to her apartment. Girl notices him and confronts him: "What the fuck are you doing you fuckin weirdo?" Guy is like "Oh, no. It's not like. That I just wanted to fuck you." Girl: "Oh, oh... Okay. I didn't know. I thought you were some kind of weirdo..." And, of course, she fucks him.
So the generic PLs are the guys who just want to fuck the strippers and be done with it. The creeps are the weirdos looking for real intimacy with strippers. Hmmmm... I wonder if there are any weirdos on this board.
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Yeah 25, now that I think of it, strippers can be pretty creepy. I guess they are harder to avoid in there too lol. I wouldn't give a single one of them a ride. We even had one who was very strong and kinda rapey to the other girls.
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It's just like it sounds! In multi girl vips, or even on the floor, or on stage. Aggressive w the customers too, but I'm sure most didn't mind.
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I see PLs as the equivalent of marks in wrestling. Not smarks, just marks. They buy everything the girl is selling and hand over the cash like it grows on trees. "Oh, she really does like me." "I will get way better service in this heavily monitored club if I go to VIP and give $300 to the guy watching the security cameras of all the rooms." That sort of thing. PLs don't break the rules, or don't know how. PLs get disappointed if the girl they got dances with the last time they were at the club isn't there. PLs just go along for the ride.
Creeps, meanwhile, live outside the boundaries of normalcy somehow. It usually starts with behavior. PLs are fairly normal looking and acting. Creeps are a little off. They came to the club in dingy clothes or can't hold a decent conversation with a dancer. They don't seem to "get it" in some way and make people nervous accordingly.
Most club patrons are on the PL spectrum. Creeps tend to either get avoided by dancers and/or say or do something to get kicked out, probably asking the lines of breaking the rules or asking about sex almost immediately. Many creeps may also have a mental health issue.
I think TUSCLers, at least the non-trolls, tend to be smarks. We know the game and what it's about, but we still enjoy it and get what we want out of it. We know what's fake and what's real, and sometimes we buy the fake if it's really good. We have our PL moments, and maybe even were PLs once, but now play the game a little more wisely. We don't just want our guy to win the title belt, we want good writing, characters and performance. We don't just go for the thrill of the club, we want a great grind, good atmosphere and maybe a shot at something ITC/OTC. We're neither PLs nor creeps. We're our own breed.
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I've always considered any guy that goes to a strip club to PL.
Creeps are a subset of that and they come in different varieties:
Stalkers
Voyeurs
Clingers
Mopers
Nonpaying feel coppers
...
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Basically creeps are PLs that make whores uncomfortable.
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Just to be clear.
I am a PL - all those other guys are creeps.
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^^^Let's get this straight I am a stud you guys are either PLs or creeps ; )
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Dougster hits on something good. Sometimes it will be just the key that fits the lock when a girl just understands that you want to fuck her.
Once in an AMP, a girl was resistant to DFKing. Then I told that I really liked her dark skin, and the way she did her eye makeup ( extreme ). After that she was full throttle and it was a mind blowing phenomenal session. A couple weeks later when I came back, they were all still talking about that last session of mine.
Sometimes a girl just needs to know what is driving you, why you are doing what you are doing, and wanting to fuck her is an honorable intention.
Usually girls don't mind if you hit on them. But if you follow them around, that really bothers them and they are very sensitive to that.
So I like to hit on girls in indoor shopping malls. But I limit myself, one passby, then one moving towards her to see her other side, then I have to decide yes or no, and if yes, approach on that second pass.
No more passes. And don't let a situation develop where I am having to follow her into the parking lot. If she is going for the outside door, move fast and act before she exits.
Usually results are good.
But too many guys are chicken, and so though it is not their intent, they end up following girls around.
SJG
Anton LaVey
pinterest.com
pinterest.com
pinterest.com
thesmokinggun.com
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Another one to add to my list
Stalkers
Voyeurs
Clingers
Mopers
Nonpaying feel coppers
Guys who fuck sleeping girls
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PL, the way I understand it, is the tongue-in-cheek name the customers on strip club message boards gave to themselves a long time ago. It is used synomymously with customer.
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^^^^ I think it is more than tongue-in-cheek, based on the recognition that very often strip club regulars have serious problems in their lives, which make it hard for them to see strippers or other women outside.
As far as creeps, as I see it, women usually are approachable. But they don't like guys who just leer at them, or especially guys who follow them around. So in a strip club, PL's are welcome, but creeps are not.
SJG
Eden Ahbez 1908 - 1995
en.wikipedia.org
Lebensreform
en.wikipedia.org
Yes, this sounds like it was good, abstinence from alcohol and tobacco. But some of it also did become part of the Nazi Party. And this sort of thing, fascist and racial supremacy in back to nature movements, is still going on in Germany today. And this is there in the origins of FKK too.
Nature Boy - Easy piano lesson (Part 1)
youtube.com
Okay, this guy plays literally what is written, and on a piano.
So E -> Eb D-> Db. So I might have to re-evaluate some of the vocalists.
But this guy makes big adjustments, more like his is accompanying a vocalist, rather than playing the melody.
'Nature Boy' - jazz piano tutorial
youtube.com
Okay, these guys keep the melody on the guitar, and he doesn't play exactly as written
Nature Boy - guitar & piano Jazz cover
youtube.com
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A PL pays a dancer and treats her nicely - a creep thinks he can treat dancers like shit b/c he's paying them
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Possibly. But a guy who is neither PL or Creep, will want to line up mistresses, and one of the ways to do this, besides selecting carefully and getting to know them, is to approach the money in an easy going way and get the girl into seeing it as just a show of respect and care, rather than strict P4P. So it could even evolve into depositing a check to her land lord in the box each money. Maybe even having one's company pay that with untaxed funds. ( anyone here done this, and willing to admit to it? )
Anyway, if you agree to the dance, you will have to pay.
So the only issue, is which way makes it better, pay first or pay after. You can't force people to do intimate acts. If she likes you and sees you as a good guy, it will be better.
Buying dances is for chumps. Front room make out session. Never be so stupid as to believe that your money can buy sex acts of any quality.
Don't have sex with any girls who would not be perfectly happy to fuck you all night for free.
SJG
She's A Lady
youtube.com
The main girl really has a cute face. Keeping women in high heels, even making their high heels and supplying them with them for free, that's the way.
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@Papi_Chulo a dancer's boyfriend treats her like shit, and he doesn't pay her. Does that mean the dancer boyfriend is lower on the totem pole in society than the creep?
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I took the Pe/creep question to be in the context of a SC custy
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Dancers regard PLs with varying degrees of disdain.
Whereas dancers regard creeps with varying degrees of fear.
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