Next Moves

That's BS....she gets paid either. You should dump her if OTC is your goal, but I've had regulars that never did OTC and the ITC experience was worth it. I prefer a "no" to a "yes" that turns out to be a lie.

My old CF flaked on me twice in a row, so I dumped her. I like my present CF better anyway. You should move on.

Sounds like a customer who gives her good money asked her to come in. Don't go in when she has canceled on you.

^ Are you saying that not all strippers are bat shit crazy and that there may actually be some logical explanation for some of the things they do?

Blasphemy!!!

-->"You went to a club and had a good time with one of the best looking girls there. Get a few private dances. A lot of contact, your hands are free to roam wherever you desire
She sits with you the rest of the night-actually turns down other guys advances and gives you her phone number and tells you she'd like to go outside the club."

One of the things that repeats itself on strip club forums, is rookie SC customers (non-PLs) repeating stories almost exactly what you said above, and asking "what does it mean?" I always say the same thing: it means absolutely nothing. Every day and night, thousands of strippers are doing this same type of hustle with thousands of customers. It's pretty standard, the fact that she sits with you the rest of the night, without compensation, means at most, she likes you as a customer, probably made her nut for the evening, and is fine just chilling with someone who isn't a dick. AT MOST.

Or, in other words, nothing you said above has any impact on what I say next.

Cancelling an OTC and then inviting you into the club is a classic passive-aggressive (or maybe aggressive-aggressive!) tactic of strippers who don't really want to go OTC. Because it's such a well-known tactic, 98% chance she's sending you a clear message: she won't do OTC. That's okay, I wish she'd have told me up front, before I took off from work, arranged for my kids to be with my ex- that evening, watched porn all morning to get all psyched up, took 3x the recommended dose of Viagra, etc. But what I"m abso-fucking-lutely not going to do is reward her for it; no, I'm not going in. In addition, she's off my appointment list. So when I return to the club, I will likely already have an appointment with someone else -- not to screw her over, not because I"m butthurt (although let's face it, I am, a little), but because this girl has basically indicated to me that she's interested in ITC only. If, someday, I go to that club and don't already have an appointment, and she's the best option, I might sit with her again with the understanding that it's just making the best of the situation and it's ITC fun only -- no hard feelings, it's just that her unwillingness to do OTC means our interests don't match.

My advice is to simply never spend another dime on her, but always be polite and say hi, as well as compliment her when you see her. If she asks why just tell her that beautiful, popular dancers have a certain "type" of clientele and you're obviously not that type so you have moved on. Wish her well, but never spend a dime on her again.

Okay--thanks. I wanted to be sure my head wasn't up my backside.......for the most part I am thinking the same way.

The oddity in this situation was I didn't bring up the idea. She did and in reality it really didn't put me out either in terms of cash or in terms of prep time.

I wasn't pissed, oddly enough, because I'm one of those guys that believes time is most valuable asset and hate to have it wasted. In this case the place we were to meet up in public first was one of my hang outs....nothing lost.

When I received the text she wasn't coming I ordered another scotch, had a drink and watched some of the ball game at the bar, and went to another club and never replied.

Like stated I'm not sure why in this case she just didn't say no or not bring up the subject at all. I can have a good time with the right girl without extras as long as she is decent looking, has some personality, and gives a good dance--she qualified on all three. OTC is icing to me.

I would go back not neccesarilly for her but if she's there great. I also go with the understanding her saying she wanted otc was ss. no hard feeling if she's really hot and high mileage itc still.

I'm with Subra in that her actions in the club don't "mean" shit.

My reaction might be a bit different though. You don't give me enough to go on. Had you setup P4P OTC? Or was this something at least you viewed as a personal thing? Either way, you've got to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. The likelihood that she's full of shit or at least just regularly unreliable has gone through the roof. If it was P4P and she's materially hotter, or cheaper, or otherwise more desirable, you've got to decide if its worth the hassle. If it was personal, this is about the time that the realization of dating a stripper should sink in and you gotta decide if that's really what you want to try to do.

In my experience, what happens next is a total crapshoot. I've had girls flake out on me the first time, then turn out to be great. I've given girls a second chance and had them flake again. I've not yet given a girl a 3rd swing, but I suspect if I did I'd strike out. That applies both to girls I've setup P4P & actual dates with. The troubling part is she txt'd you an hour after your arranged time. I'd tend to think that's a bad sign, and you're much more likely to get strike two than hit a home run.

I think sometimes we read too much into shit like this.

I'm aligned with skibum609 on this. I'd maintain my cool, because this is just a "game" after all. But I'd move on and find the right play mate.

I've always considered the SS as part of the fun in clubbing.

^^^^^^^ I agree with flagooner. If you talk to the girl some, she will usually get real.

SJG

Eden Ahbez - Nature Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=339UrDjH…

http://d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net/pro…

Jon Hassel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2COiOTn…

Celine Dion, the one I like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSQyzit5…

Church of Satan
http://www.churchofsatan.com/images/lave…

London's Windmill Theater
http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Archive/Feb…

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Archive/Feb…

Uh oh, where did I go wrong?

1) Go back to the club

To elaborate, pick a seat facing away from the stage but directly facing her and the guy who asked her to come in that day. Try to establish eye contact with them. Trail him into the bathroom and ask if Philodendron lets him touch her in all the right places like she let you. Follow up by asking if she has invited him for OTC. Make a remark about how he might as well be reading the newspaper for 30 minutes while sitting on the only toilet without piss and shit on it.

That's typical stripper behavior - that is like taking a dog back to the pet-store b/c it barked when you brought it home.

Early on in my PL-career I'd get frustrated dealing w/ strippers - till I just accepted that flakiness and illogical behavior is part of that breed (w/ exceptions of course) - when it comes to strippers I always assume things may not work out as expected thus I don't invest much into it (time, emotions, $$$, etc) - i.e. I know better than to rearrange my schedule/life expecting the stripper to hold her end of the bargain - i.e. I don't invest (time, $$$. emotions, etc) what I'd be pissed/affected at losing - if she flakes then I had already taking that into account as part of the transaction.

Early on I would blackball strippers but these days I just accept that I'm dealing w/ an unreliable product - similar to what Dolfan mentioned, I've had strippers treat me poorly on a visit and then rock my world on another - as long as you know what you are dealing with and can see the SS; then I roll w/ it - i.e. I don't see much purpose/success in punishing strippers - I assume many of them are doing the best they can and actually can't do any better (e.g.. why many are often getting fined by the club for one reason or another yet they still do it even though it's costing them $$$).

I have a mindset that I don't expect anything from a stripper (as long as I have not paid her) - in your situation; I would have not been surprised nor upset and if I felt like seeing her that night I would have gone to the club if I had the time and the desire - a lot of dancers will say anything to a custy to reel him into coming to see her at the club; in the end one should go if they want to whether they are being SSed or not (as long as you can see the SS).

I also have this attitude b/c I'm not a one-stripper kinda PL (I have too much love to give for just one stripper :)) - i.e. I don't need, nor I look for, the one stripper to meet all my PL-needs.

There are all sorts of immature reactions available, like (1) set up another otc date and don't show, telling her later that you had to go to work, or (2) go to the club and drop a very visible $1K on every dancer but her. But if you're not in the mood for either of those, then I'd follow skibum's approach.

Send her some dick pics so she sees what she's missing (it doesn't have to be your actual dick pics but you don't have to tell her that)

:)

^^^^^^^ ROTFLMFAO

Papi +10

SJG

Live And Let Die - Paul McCartney & Wings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swVoXHVW…

Vocal version of 1967 Casino Royale theme, at the end of the movie, but didn't make it onto the sound track album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-jchln…

I'm with Papi on this one. OP also failed to mention if it was p4p or not. If it is p4p being as specific as possible on time place and $ reduces flakiness substantially.

-->" Make a remark about how he might as well be reading the newspaper for 30 minutes while sitting on the only toilet without piss and shit on it."

Ironically, I am likely actually in the only toilet not covered in piss and shit, reading the paper, listening to all this. I'll be out in 20.

This happened a few weeks ago--I didn't go to the club that night.

I deleted both the conversation and her contact info from my cell and I haven't heard from her nor have I contacted her.

I'm not vested at all in any way, the couple nights I got dances from her I tipped her well and bought her a drink or two--nothing out of the ordinary.

I had been looking at option 3 as my first choice but again I wanted feedback---would I be polite to her if ( when) I see her--yes. Will I do any more private dancers--probably not. She is attractive and provides a good dance but so do other girls at other clubs.

As for was it 100% P4P--no. To be blunt I wasn't the one that asked for the off site meet. We spent a fair amount of time talking my second time in the club and like I said she chose to hang around and wave a couple other guys off as well as she is the one that asked about meeting. I expected I was going to hear what she expected and wanted. Was I prepared --had cash with me and protection--but it was her meet.

Keep in mind I never play in my home area---although the bar/restaurant is a hangout of mine it is when I am on the road 500 miles away from home.

As Dolfan and a few others have stated it's the hour after the meet text that shows a total flake--risk and one that could --could ---have been more costly. Just because it wasn't does not excuse her actions.

I don't let people or things frustrate me too easily....I'm hard to tick off......but harder to get back on my good side once you do.

I'm headed back to the area tomorrow which is why I asked---well that and it seems to be a full moon based on the actions of a few women in my life these past few days........

To everyone with constructive advice I appreciate it......more stories to come.....real life is and this seems to apply to this lifestyle more so than some stranger than fiction.

It is not that difficult to get strippers outside of the club. I learned that decades ago, before cell phones and caller ID. Back then women were much more careful with phone numbers. But today, they are much looser with phone numbers. So it is only that much easier.

You know, by junior high school age, the Beavis and Butthead years, a guy learns that the women held up as sex symbols are outside of his social sphere. So at a local Go Go Bar like the Sunnyvale Brass rail, does that also apply to their dancers?

I found out right off that no it does not. Most of the time all that really matters is that you are not treating her like a prostitute. Once she is sure that you are not doing that, most of them are ready to go.

Now for that portion accustomed to straight P4P, fine, because that idea will be coming from them. So it can usually be set up right away and they will deliver as agreed.

Best though is still to treat all of them like complete civilians.

Needn't be a big deal or something to post and post about, or strategize over. Two visits maximum. Be straight with the girl. Business card, real name, phone number, what you do for a living, talk about where you and she might go because of her work schedule. Outside contact should be possible from one or two club visits max.

Treat her like you would any other girl. Don't put her in some special "stripper' category.

The issue is, most guys do treat them like prostitutes. And this is what they are on guard for.

But for those of us who don't do that, then it is only that much easier. We are the 1 in 1000 that they wait for.

Now making an outside relationship work, that is another matter. The problem is all the outside social pressures that people are subjected to.

SJG

She's A Lady
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReL9dmYD…

Yeah sure, I was blown away at first, a genuine stripper calling my phone number, and her voice on my answering machine. This never happens for Beavis or Butthead.

But eventually one learns that these are just ordinary girls, and so long as you never treat them as anything other than that, they can quite easily be gotten to, and most of them are very available and they like guys who are able to talk to them like they would to any other girl.

SJG

Im kind of in the boat as the OP and I know most of you guys been in the SC game longer than I have... But in general, do strippers get jealous?

I know most women are naturally jealous at times but if the OP (or anybody in a similar situation) goes with option 3,do strippers really give a shit?

Stripper "jealousy" is *not* about the custy; it's about his $$$ and another dancer beating her to your wallet - if you didn't have any $$$ to spend there'd no jealousy (no matter what it looks like) - it's more "professional rivalry"

Papi, agree with you, but would take it a little farther... it is not *just* professional rivalry, it can go well beyond that to the nastiest, most venomous form of conflict humans have ever engaged in: mean girl rivalry. This can be very personal to them.

@Rickberge, if there's an obvious reason why you have lost interest and it was based on her actions, she probably won't hassle you about it. Some are persistent and will say about anything and work any possible angle to get money out of you, though, especially if they think it might work on you.

As Papi_Chulo says, it's about disappointment over losing an income source, or in the rivalry case, that she lost out to that bitch she hates. Sometimes a dancer will offer to make up for whatever it was that led to losing interest and end up becoming worth interacting with again.

Yeah - women tend to be very emotional and strippers just take everything to the next-level (or multiple levels)

There is no right answer... it's what are you looking for?

If you had a good time ITC and OTC potential woulda been icing on the cake, but fell through. Who cares?... you still had a good time with her previously and can still have a good time with her again afterwards.

Too many guys reading too much into it. Personally, I'd take it as she doesn't do OTC and still see her ITC. On my terms. If I were looking to come in that night I would, and if I were looking for OTC action I'd look elsewhere.

Keep it simple.

Go back to the club and have a good time. Don't take it personal, she is a stripper, that's what they do.

If you go to the club on that same day and get dances from her, you're sending the message that bait and switch is a profitable tactic with you. Better, especially if it's a place where you hang out and know people, to text back that you ended up seeing some friends while you were out and maybe you'll see each other another time.

i won't get a room unless she is actually with me. i got burnt once five years ago.

As always, when dealing with strippers, the forces in opposition are:
1. She's a stripper. She's going to be flakey, unreliable, passive-aggressive, moody. Either accept that, or don't deal with strippers.
2. There's some line of self-respect you set where, if she crosses it, she's not worth talking to anymore.

I think we all set that line in #2 differently, there's no right or wrong, my threshold for what I consider acceptable treatment seems to be lower than some of you (that is, I have a lower tolerance for bad behavior), maybe higher than others of you. Of course, I'm a hypocrite, and I set that line higher for girls that are particularly awesome sexually, or if I'm having trouble developing other options. But I do pretty quickly lose interest in girls who play me and waste my time, never intending to go OTC, I do not just let bygones be bygones and see her ITC; I have a little higher tolerance for girls who will do OTC but just flake occasionally (see rule 1).

Yea in regard to the jealousy aspect of this thread, having 2 and possibly 3 CFs at one club may not be a good idea... The fear of all 3 there at one time, on a slow night...may or may not work in my favor

You can make it work if you know what you are doing and call the shots vs being passive and letting them dictate how things are done/flow

This really varies by club. At a more social one, when circumstances arise where you turn down one or another regular/CF/etc that night in favor of another, they will remember and future mileage can go way, way down with the one you didn't pick. If you have the money for all three on a slow night, this is much less likely to be a problem.

Other clubs are less social and the dancers only spend enough time to figure out whether you're willing get a dance. In those cases, it's unlikely to matter.

Often times competition among faves increases mileage as they vie for first place - and often times when you always say yes they may take you for granted and think you are hopelessly into them (not necessarily a universal rule)

w/ a lot of strippers often times the more you give them the more they ant and the less they appreciate it (again not universal)

^ ant = want

One should treat dancers fairly but IMO the more one tries to please dancers the more one goes down the road of diminishing returns (just my 2 cents)

Don't treat dancers like a GF or a civvie, they are usually a different animal

Well, you can treat them like civvies as long as you know and are cognizant you're dealing w/ a dancer for $$$

a few things to remember.
a lot of these girls wouldn't be dancing if they could keep a commitment to a full time job and a weekly paycheck.
this could have honestly been a situation where a she had to work because a very good customer was coming in and had contacted her.
the fact that she texted you at all is a good sign.
as everyone else has said, and I have stated above, always consider them unreliable.

I've had girls tell me a week in advance that we will get together on Sunday afternoon, or we'll go see a movie together, or we need to meet for coffee.
most of the time, they flake. for some reason, most of these girls can't keep a working cell phone for more than a week.

i have a very simple system now for any dancer that says they want to get together for whatever. if i don't have any pressing plans for the day, and I'll probably be able to catch up on some paperwork at home otherwise, I ask them to contact me in the morning (text, voice, whatever). if i hear from them, great, if not, i haven't wasted any time.
dating advice (especially for civvies) from the 80s and 90s doesn't work any more. the old advice was to make a date, arrange to pick her up at her house (which you'd get the address when you made the date), and have very little contact before then.
girls used to say that you should call the day of to confirm (this was for their benefit because it would give them an opportunity to bail if something more appealing were to come along) so you would always respond that there was no need to confirm a second time as they'd already confirmed the date just then.

most of these girls can't even get their act together to get out of the house for something that would benefit themselves (not including you).

accept the fact that they are unreliable, and if you manage to find one that keeps a cell phone, keeps appointments, and saves money, you found a unicorn.