My Little Observation About The Election

Shailynn, I never thought you were anything but Caucasian. Most people think I am white, I'm Chippewa and Cherokee Indian, also. America is a diverse mix of color and nationality, I'm proud that most of us can accept that. I could care less if someone is green, purple, white, yellow, black, red, etc., etc.

I heard earlier today that in 1992 when Bill Clinton was elected that 87% of the electorate was white; in 2016 it was down to 70% - that's some serious shit right thur

Damn shailynn I always thought you were green.

I thought shailynn was Mexican

I did eat tacos for breakfast today

I think Trump represents what is America and not in a good way. Michael Caine said US thinks of itself as Superman but the world sees it as Batman ( I would argue albeit with a much lower IQ). Evidently US is seen as a dark knight or worse as an aggresser (it has interfered in many wars across the world, Latin America, East Europe, Middle East, IndoChina or far-east) to favor itself. It is self serving,unabashed, greedy, power hungry and a bit stupid. It is bad mouthed, arrogant, has shrewd business kind of foreign relationship. Whatever it did well was atleast a hundred years ago, the new innovations are just mounting themselves on the older ones within this existing system. It has become grumpy and is afraid to lose its status as hegemon over the world. The debt is 14 trillion, other countries that store dollars are called ODIK countries. If dollar is replaced/challenged as a exchange currency US will crash and burn. Russia and China don't value US as much as US would want to. And the recession materialized all those fears again.
The fear and paranoia of anything non white dominated the campaign. People were affected by recession but they still don't understand how will Trump fix that and create more jobs and boost growth. I don't understand whether he wants to play with drones or isolate US from any foreign war or intervention in Syria or Iraq or Ukraine or commit to climate change.
Make America Great again is an anguished acknowledgement that China has beaten US in everything. US has been built by immigrants, and white people who call themselves natives have less than 5 generations history. 2-5 generations is pretty low for that sense of entitlement and closed mindedness towards the first of 2nd gen immigrants or other minorities. People should just stop being selfish and cry for protectionism.
The other big issue was cynicism with a career politician and rustic charm of an outsider who was aggressively impolite and politically incorrect on several occasions, and showed his intelligence by ideas like building a wall and correlation of Mexican illegal immigrants to rapists etc.

Gandhi said ...First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you and then you win.
I never believed this quote could be interpreted in wrong way untill today.

Attributing Trump's election to pissed off racist white people is just more in the long line of baseless insults thrown at the guy. He won because his opponent was a criminal, and because he talked about the real problems that mainstream politicians gloss over.

^Like building a wall to keep out the rapist/murderers from down south and banning all Muslims?

His opponent was extremely disliked and he embraced an attitude his supporters were so desperate for that they were willing to ignore his gaffs and horrible comments/behavior.

Amusingly, at least to me, that desperate desire for something new and different is the same wave that ushered in Obama to his first term.

@JS69 not racist in a discriminatory way, but in a self preserving and self serving way. Society should always be more humane, generous and altruistic than Individual. If you get one meal a day and your brother gets zero and you are grumpy because you are hungry and think that killing your brother will make situation better you're not very smart. What's Trump's solution? I don't think people voted on policy or character. It's just pure cynicism.

You should watch Black Mirror ( episode where they vote a cartoon character to be PM of England)

To JS69 I don't attribute Donald Trump's election to racist white people, but I do attribute it to pissed of people that have been left behind without a voice, and I believe that the Democratic party has lost their way. The Democrats were supposed to be the party of workers, and unions yet they sold out their constituents on Main Street for the billions of Wall Street. I attribute the lack of good candidates to the amount of money that is drowning our system to such a degree that unless you have many millions of dollars you will not be heard.

Che you articulated very well what I have been thinking I agree with most of that treatise you wrote and i really believe that this is not over yet and is going to get worse.

Protesters are in the streets of America in reaction to Trumps win. Pure crap behavior

Now I heard college students are burning flags and cut classes because they were too upset over the Trump win.
Good Lord

There is one statistically significant characteristic of those who supported Trump: authoritarianism. Those who favor order and obedience over personal freedom couldn't stand more of the Democratic agenda. They're looking for someone to say, "Do it this way!"

^
Gawker open your eyes, neither party is for personal freedom, they both want some form of control.

"Protesters are in the streets of America in reaction to Trumps win. Pure crap behavior"

Yes I agree about their behavior. They aren't going to change anything except inconvenience and piss off the drivers that they have hemmed in because they're blocking the streets. If they aren't happy with the results they should work at putting up a better candidate in the future. My hunch is that their version of a better candidate would have a lower chance of winning though.
Bottom line is no matter who won there would be pissed off people although you wouldn't see the right doing BS antics like blocking streets and burning things yet the left like to see themselves as the civilized ones.

IMO a big-part why Hillary lost is b/c she was more of a centrist vs hard-left and thus the lack of enthusiasm w/ the libs for her - centrists are out of vogue (e.g. Jeb Bush, etc)

^ I have to disagree with that Papi. Except for both Clinton's greed for money and power Hillary is a leftist in centrist clothing.

All these "protesters" are acting like damn anarchists - as I've posted b/f liberals are the most open-minded people as long as you agree w/ them and they get their way

Hillary is considered a centrist vs the current "darlings" of the left like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren

It's because she figured she couldn't win running as a liberal. She has many of the same ideals as them she just kept them under wraps while she was running.
The only difference is her greed for $ and power.

Politicians often follow something Nixon said, run to the right during the primaries and the center during the election. It also applies to liberals, run to the left during the primaries and the center during the election.

"because he talked about the real problems that mainstream politicians gloss over."


Put the weed down.

Somebody mentioned worker class votes going to Trump. I don't understand who or why were they voting for him? I was smoking and talking to 2 white construction workers at Wall Street Metro hub a few weeks back when construction was still going on. If you don't know, construction is one of the whitest and most unionized job category in US. And they say Trump is saying he likes unions but he wouldn't pay for it if he wins. He was a real state shark in NYC and knows how expensive unions are. So these 2 middle aged workers working overtime one of them was expecting another child were talking rationally or is it because ny is deep blue and most conservative person can be off to left by a few degrees?
If a high number of Latinos voted for him, were they really thinking they will get higher wages and job market expansion?
If AA voted for Trump what were thinking?

Hillary is a career politician and career politicians make compromises and will fall in the grey zone. However her term would have been predictable and maybe she would have been impeached in 2 years.

A lot of people forget and don't appreciate Obama's handling of post recession recovery in a very composed way. He didn't do anything radical, but he didn't let the hope waver.
But people are always looking for a radical change and don't understand how easy it is for things to fall apart with jerks (verb)
Now all people can say is we don't know what will happen. There is no plan, no policy but to undo Obama's work. No wonder the markets are shaken and we still have people saying Trump is better than Hillary. I wonder if the economists are traders and investment bankers are also left biased. Wake up guys you are not seeing the truth even after the election is over. Trump is not a victim and anti-establishment outsider Samaritan with best of intentions or ideas. You have chosen an unpredictable path which can be really fucked up.

A lot of people thought i was white but I'm just Carlton

"I don't understand who or why were they voting for him?"

White people, other bigots, uninformed uneducated(stupid) people unable to think for themselves, Hilary haters.

"If a high number of Latinos voted for him, were they really thinking they will get higher wages and job market expansion?
If AA voted for Trump what were thinking?"

I'm not sure high number of Latinos or blacks did vote for him. Those that did are incredibly naive or have no self respect...or they are rich.

"There is no plan, no policy but to undo Obama's work."

He didn't win because of policy. He won with the support of mainly dumbasses and bigots.

"You have chosen an unpredictable path which can be really fucked up."

See above comment.

^^^ +1
Trump won due to uneducated urban whites (men and surprising number of women).

Still seems like a nightmare to me. Racism is alive in well in our great country.

As I wrote in another thread, it's the very people who put him in office who are going to suffer the worst as Trump unravels six decades of progressive legislation (things like healthcare, the environment, SS, etc...).

More shit talk. Do any of you really feel smarter now that you've explained to yourself how the political world works?

If so, suck on the baby bottle and go to sleep.

Trump won not because of who he is or what he stood for, it is because of who he is not. He is not a career politician nor is he beholding to any special interests. The people who voted for him are disappointed and angry with our government. They have good reason. We have let our manufacturing base disappear. The business leaders and politicians benefitted while the working cost lost their lifestyle and their means to earn a reasonable living.
Both parties ignored what these people were saying and worked in a vacuum. The Democratic party picked Hillary before the primary. They put up a Political lightweight from one of the smallest states in the country to oppose her and he almost won. Should that not have been a sign when she barely had enough support in her own party with a biased process?
Again, these people did not vote for Trump because of the many asinine and offensive statements he made, nor because of his plan or lack there of. They voted for Trump because the political machines (Republican and Democrat) have allowed their jobs to disappear for 25 - 35 years and they are fed up.

" Do any of you really feel smarter now that you've explained to yourself how the political world works?"
---------------------------------------------------
No, @Meat, let me explain the election to you in a little more detail. Trump dumbs-down all his messages to appeal to poorly educated, low-information voters. Examples

1) Immigration is a problem? Let's build a massive wall to keep those bad assholes out. Solution that would only appeal to a child.

2) Muslims have engaged in high-profile attacks? Let's ban all of them. Makes sense to a child.

3) Tariffs up to 45% on imports from China or Mexico? Makes sense to a 4th grader.

Not to mention the all the bigotry and filth he spews on a regular basis. I'll do just fine, @Meat, but it's some of the urban working class whites who will suffer.

I wouldn't go so far as to blame the election results on racism and bigotry although that may have some effect I blame it more on the Democratic Party trying to out Republican the Republican Party. What I mean by this is that the Democrats have climbed into bed with the special interests even cozier than the Republicans. The amount of money cycling through the system made both candidates the same in a race to the bottom. I hope both parties have learned an important lesson that their candidates all stink to high heaven. Really if this is the best that they can do we are all in trouble.

Calling those that voted for Trump racists is saying half the electorate is racist - it's just being sore losers really

Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose - Hillary:

1) is not a natural politician - she's had a hard time being overwhelmingly liked going back to her days as AK first lady in the late 70s - politics is a people job and whether right or wrong charisma counts for a lot and she does not naturally have it

2) she's part of the political establishment and that is not in vogue these days


The experts and everyone else can analyze all they want as to why she lost but in the end she was a flaud candidate who was not even the fave person in her own party for many dems and that's why she lost

"she lost but in the end she was a flaud candidate who was not even the fave person in her own party for many dems and that's why she lost"
---------------------------------------
She won the popular vote overall by about 1 percentage vote. She slaughtered Trump in three debates, in which Trump was an incoherent, unprepared, bullshitter. Racial identity was without question a deciding factor in the election -- and the election as a whole represents the rise of white nationalism.

Unfortunately, the top candidates are really hard to like. As unlikable as both Trump and Clinton were, look at the next level down -- what if it was Cruz vs Bernie? Just like I had to hold my nose and vote for Clinton this time, I'd have to hold my nose and vote for Cruz in that race, but really, both are atrocious choices to lead the American people.

One of my worries about this race is that the Democrats are going to "learn" from it by turning far more leftwards and choosing Bernie to run against Trump... and if Trump's act is going to wear thin on the American people, like I think it will, Bernie has a chance of winning. Bernie's the one and only candidate who could possibly get me voting for Trump, and I truly think would be even worse for America. Then again, Democratic voters have proven that they're smarter than Republican voters, so hopefully they won't resort to a Bernie candidacy.

"Calling those that voted for Trump racists is saying half the electorate is racist - it's just being sore losers really"

Being ok with misogyny and racism is almost as bad. Call me whatever you want. This shit is disgusting. Seriously. The non racists and misogynist couldn't wait another cycle for a better "outsider". Amerikkka will deserve whatever that dipshiy does.

"Making america great again." lol. Yeah. Ok.

The largest group of bigots on earth are progressives. Their cries of racism, homophobia and misogyny is just hate speech. Sadly they are so stupid they don't understand America just told them to go fuck themselves. Bernie is a fraud and a hypocrite he has no chance of ever accomplishing any of his inane goals.

Hey RANDOM: progressive thinking is an oxymoron. All y'all fucked up a once great land. Hey will someone just let Bradley Manning kill himself please?

"Sadly they are so stupid they don't understand America just told them to go fuck themselves"

You are confirming what we already knew. I think most people understand clearly.

^just to be clear, does anyone think that's not what america just said, to all non whites and all women.

@ subraman, gee i sure do love election season. and i’m willing to bet right here and right now that your predictions for 2020 ain’t gonna happen.

i have a ten spot that says the primaries will be michelle obama versus hillary clinton on the democratic side and a surprise challenger on the republican side with donald trump versus hillary clinton.

in the final show down of the general election i have another tenner that says it will be hillary clinton versus hillary clinton and i am calling it right now that hillary will still lose.

lololololololol

I sort of like you, @Skibum -- you're a bigot and you don't hide behind goofy euphemisms and dog whistles. Manning deserves to go to prison, so we agree on that one.

The 2-degree climate-change goal is now toast due to the idiot we elected. So while progressives may have destroyed your "great land," your president-elect-idiot will destroy the whole planet. Based on one of your previous threads, I think that was your goal, anyway.

regardless of who won i still plan on moving to mexico when i finish selling my assets here. margaritaville.

The county I live in is abut 35% black (with NO public housing) and 15% Hispanic, yet the vote was over 70% FOR Trump. While not a "rich" county (and not one mansion that I know of) the US Census demographics assert over 60% "some college" or college graduate. So, in my county at least, more than dumb white rednecks voted for Trump. I do know many Blacks who openly displayed their support for Trump with hats, bumper stickers and yard signs. Anyone who claims the election of Trump was a white against black racist act is either an idiot, a liar or pushing their own agenda without facts.

What I see on the election result maps is a clear separation between rural and urban - not race - not gender - not income, not even education. What I see in the national, state and local results is most voters in large cities voted for Clinton, and most of the rest of us voted for Trump. So if this nation is divided - the divide is between people living in crowded cities and everyone else.

Honestly, I think Trump won because too many people realized Clinton was TOO dishonest, TOO unlikable, to ever serve as President.

dallas702. thank you. your last sentence. ditto.

I think Trump seems to have won, simply due to the effects of the Right Wing Hate media.

SJG

Shailynn's OP has some good observations. What I hope is that a strong progressive movement develops right away to oppose Trump in every area.

SJG

@dallas702. nice try but facts to leftists are like sunshine is to vampires. just not compatible

A few interesting facts about the elections:

1) There was no surge of Latino voters. Hispanics made up 10 percent in 2012 and only 11 percent in 2016

2) Hillary has a 12-point margin over trump with women but basically the same as Obama over Romney. So Trump was not a turnoff to women.

3) Education level had a huge difference in voter choice. Obama in last election: 50% of college grads and 51% of non-college grads. This time around: Clinton won 52% of college grads, 42% of non-college grads. Trump won voters without college degrees by 8 points.

*made a huge difference

All good points, and also this shows that these have all been close elections.

SJG

I ended up not voting, I went to my polling place mid-morning and the line was about an hour long. I left to do the other things I needed to get accomplished, I hoped to return in the mid-afternoon when hopefully the line would be down. I never made it back to the East side before evening when I knew the line would be even longer. I am not afraid to vote my conscience, both of the 2 were not to my liking. I'd have voted for Clinton. I congratulate Mr. Trump and hope his assumed policies won't damage us too much. I think not, he will find that he is hamstrung by the other 2 branches of government.

VM, if you don't mind my asking, why do you dislike Hillary Clinton, and why would you not vote for her when you know that voting for her is the only way to oppose Trump.

I find Clinton to be an honest, responsible, and very centrist candidate. I believe she would have made a great President.

I feel that most of the negative feelings about her are because of Right Wing Media, and they are just playing on the fact that she is a woman.

SJG

I accept your apology, Vince. I knew you weren't really mad at me.

"find Clinton to be an honest,"

Sjg, whatever Clinton is is better than the Donald. But honest is not one of them.

Hey SJG, Nixon erased 18 minutes of tape. Hillary erased 30,000 emails. Who's the crook?

I find her to be above average in honesty for someone who has gotten close to the Presidency. What is your basis for saying otherwise?

SJG

She said that those were personal emails. And as I have said, her handling of this whole email matter, having the server set up in her home, instead of letting official security people take care of all such things, was really stupid.

SJG

I feel that the strong negative feelings about her are personal, and evoked by Right Wing Media simply playing on the fact that she is a woman and appealing to stereotypes.

SJG

Along the lines of what "702" mentioned, Trump won most counties in FL w/ Hillary winning the biggest ones

It is like this in most places, as the rural - urban split is much greater than any regional split.

This is also another reason why as the vote counting goes on, it usually shifts more towards the democrat, as it takes longer to count the urban precincts.

And then you can see this in the people elected to the US House and to state and local offices.

SJG

Obamacare health costs are growing out of control. I believe many lower wage workers were upset at all the price increases. The democrats get all the blame for that in my opinion. Whether true or not. They passed it all without any compromise with republicans,
My premiums have increased a lot since obamacare passed.

Hillary in my opinion wanted to destroy employer Heath insurance and have everyone dependent on the government. She says one thing in public, another to others and young people in my opinion don't understand her deceit. My premiums if forced to go on a government plan would go up a lot more.

I don't care if you are white, black, green, yellow or whatever color. I see Hillary as the nail in our country of ever having free markets and freedom from the government telling you every single thing you can do and can't do, even though we aren't real far from that now in my opinion. I do have freedom to post anonymously on this site. Corporations have destroyed that freedom even more telling you that you aren't free if you are identified as an employee and post anything in any way like our future president has said. If you do, you get fired. I have heard of this happening.

I did not vote for Trump in the primary nor Hillary and thought all of the above were poor choices but the only thing I could do is voice my opinion. I heard Hillary herself say she wanted open borders with southern countries. Criminals and others would be free to come here.

I might not have been terribly upset if she had won though. I'm in agreement with her former plans to raise the income cap on social security taxes so that higher income people were taxed more. These people make more than 90k or 100k, I'm not sure where the cap cuts in.
She might have attempted to fix social security or maybe leave it to run out of money, maybe
by raising everyone's payroll tax. She would have tried to ban guns if she could or increase taxes on guns, ammo, etc. she has said she would ban all guns in the hands of citizens if she could. She is corrupt but a little bit smarter or sometimes I thought but The Trump team outsmarted her in the election. I think he used less money to win the electoral college and still beat her which is impressive to me.

This has been like a comic book election. Crooked Hillary versus Donald. Let's all hope Mr Trump is successful in creating a lot of great jobs and a booming economy. If he does, we will need a lot of legal immigrants.


I still think we are due for a massive stock sell off in another year or two but let's enjoy the ride to sp500 2500 level.

30,000 personal emails ???? LMAO, I believe pigs fly, too.


Why don't I like her, I never said I didn't, I bet she is a charming woman. I could not vote for either, I would have written in my name before I voted for those 2.

My guy won but still I am incredibly worn out from all things political. It seems like we've been talking about the same Clinton Trump bullshit all year. Somebody please tell a stripper sex story.

Clinton was stupid with the home email server. As she was doing that, someone should have spoken out and put a stop to it. Or maybe someone told her it was okay. But she is not the only one who does stupid things. I still have no idea why anyone would not vote for her just to stop Trump.

Obama care had to be compromised just to get it passed, otherwise it would have gone down just as the Hillary Clinton 1993 plan had. That plan was actually too good, painless. Costs hidden below the cost level of what employers were already paying. Small businesses would get credits and have to pay little, but still get the big boost in their hiring competitiveness. Med businesses would get some credits, but typically they were already paying for health care. Large businesses usually had the best benefits already, so the Clinton plan would not have cost them more.

Everyone said that we pay more on heath care than we would if we had universal access, because of all the reactive and defensive emergency room care.

Well, Clinton had worked up a fantastic plan, to take advantage of this.

But, being so complicated, the health insurance industry was able to put on Thelma and Louise ads and give a completely distorted view.

Obama did not want to repeat this. What he has done is great.

But now we need to go further, to truly universal, not employment related, and single payer health care.

Nothing in life is not political. Politics is an expression of your underlying world view. How I get along with a strip club dancer is very likely going to be an expression of her political views.

SJG

I don't think Clinton had the private server out of stupidity, there was probably a reason behind it as in her trying to hide something IMO - she should have known better "with all ber experience", she probably had self-serving reasons for it

SJG, heard of Wikileaks? It's all there. You really do like posting like a cabron,don't you

Papi, I think Clinton was just stupid. She has no other motivation. She doesn't engage in crooked stuff. Not not how she has lived.

It makes one wonder how many other irresponsible things is our government doing with electronic communications.

Wikileaks has never accused her of anything more than just stupidity and trying to cover up.

The stuff Right Wing Media says has no relation to reality.

SJG

All it would take is the President, the Democrats, and just a bit more than 1/3 of the Republicans and the Constitution could be amended right now to eliminate the electoral college, effective for this election.

We could ask those most qualified, the 8 sitting justices of the Supreme Court, to write the amendment.

Sometimes it is strange crises which force progress. Bring the United States forward out of the 19th Century.

Otherwise with this claim of weekly contact with Russians and the FBI announcements, it's "What did Trump know and when did he know it?" As it will be necessary to impeach him and require the same congressional 2/3rds.

Obama missed his FDR moment when he failed to nationalize or even re-regulate the banks. Well now on his way out he can have an even greater moment by finally fixing our system so that every vote counts, and averting a disaster of epic proportions.

Governing the most powerful nation in the world is nothing like a sporting match, as the stakes are so much higher. We all need therefore to think very hard about what is needed, and then do it.

SJG

Stop spamming with the same posts fuck face, that aint gonna happen. Crooked Hillary lost, game over.