ITC vs OTC fees ?

I think a good rule of thumb I've read, is figure the market price for an escort for 1 hr and work from there. rickdugan probably has lots of info in the archive from using The System. I come from an escort customer mindset, myself. Not sure how accurate that would be in real life. Figure $300 in most places, adjusted for local price. It might go lower like 250 .. 200 .. 150 depending on market and if you are a local versus being a traveler, etc.

ETA: I read Juice can get an all-nighter in exchange for a hamburger. ;)

We can use math to figure this out. Let's say VIP cost $300 an hour, that's what you pay the club. The club takes a cut so that girls probably get only $200. In a normal circumstance, you definitely can't get the girl to a hotel for just $200. Because the hotel is a bit out of her way and she can't get right back to work like she does in a club. So you probably need to compensate her just that bit of trouble. You also need to cover the cost of the hotel room.

I have to agree to a point. But, if local escorts are 150 an hour and she wanted 300 in the VIP, you had better at least plan on 300. Plus, from my experience, they usually want double what they were asking in the club because as they almost always say "they can take their time"

Paps, here's how I do it, 100% of the time.

The structure: I always see a girl ITC a few times before I bring up OTC, and even the first time I bring up OTC, I just get her saying yes, then we do high-fives to how awesome it's going to be, and talk about how we'll drink and go strip clubbing beforehand, and more high-fives and shots. Then, the day I want to negotiate, I negotiate a price for the sex (we'll get to that in a moment). Chances are we're buzzed already, and high-fiving once we've negotiated successfully. I continue getting her drunk, and we talk about how we're going to go eating and drinking and strip clubbing and OMGitwillbesomeAWESOME!

In short, she understands from the start that there will be drinking and having fun, apart from the sex, but the negotiation is strictly for the sex. The entire advantage of strippers over escorts is their lack of professionalism: a professional escort charges for every minute of her time, whereas strippers (at least the ones who don't have OTC as a business model, and I'm not interested one bit in those girls anyway) don't think that way. Encourage it, work with it. Otherwise, might as well just go with escorts.

THE NEGOTIATION: I don't have any hard and fast rule. I think sex OTC should cost about as much as sex ITC, even though the club isn't taking a cut (which should bring the price down), even though she's taking more of a risk physically (which should drive the price up), even though the OTC sex plus partying lasts hours longer than ITC sex (which should also drive the price up). Sometimes I'll pay a little more. Sometimes I'll pay a little less. You can't logic this out -- you can just decide the most you'll pay, and how flexible you are.

I don't do ITC normally. I only do OTC and then only with an established or prospective GFE girl. The first night out it is a pay for play interview. This happens only one time. After that it is all the sex I want for free just like she's your girlfriend. I do take care of her financially but there is no arranged price. They must be satisfied with the way I take care of them because they keep coming back for more. The first night I used to pay them $300 / hour for the interview. Now it's only $200 / hour for the new girls.

OTC is harder to set up. So a girl makes more money with ITC.

So as OTC is more involved and complex, a girl could try for more money. Also, I think most guys would want more time with OTC.

But as it is extra money, pure gravy, I don't know that girls really want that much necessarily.

For myself, treating the girl just like I would any other girl is the key. So it would never be strictly P4P.

I think the money can be just what you want to pay.

SJG

Jestie and I are exactly aligned. One time, at the beginning, I shot too low and it almost cost me my now ongoing 2 yr situation that is incredible.

I am convinced that Jestrite50 has got the right approach to these matters.

SJG

So what about a tip? My only two OTC experiences have been in Malaysia and Russia and I didn't tip any extra. Is it expected in US? If U agree on whatever amount, is that the fixed price? I am considering both stripper OTC and backpage escorts as a possibility.

For starters, I think the impact of the price of the VIP/CR on OTC pricing is not really as important as how easy it is for the girl to sell those options ITC. In my experience, you're probably SOL with almost any girl who is already making good money selling VIP trips ITC, which she could be achieving through any number of price /frequency combinations. After all, why should she chase one more payment OTC when she can sell the same services with the convenience, comfort and safety provided by the club? Unless, of course, you are willing to shell out the levels of cash that gawker/JS spend in order to get their favorite girls OTC.

In terms of pricing in any given area, I find the midpoint between the average BP price and the average Eros price to still be a fairly good barometer for what is fair. From there, it is a game of adjustments up or down (more often up for me as I tend to chase good talent) depending upon the talent level and the kind of money I believe she is already earning ITC.

I also have a max cap I am willing to spend and if it is not sufficient for where I am clubbing then I just save it for my next club night. Fortunately for me, my cap is more than enough in most clubs that I visit, but not so much in places like NYC or L.A.

Jester, Dominic, empala and Rick all hit this on the button.

When I club I'm using ITC as an opportunity to try out the merchandise and see if they make a good GF experience.

I only do OTC if it's going to be a GF experience. It's the best option because you will drop $200-$500-$1,000 depending on if she is a 8-9-10. 7 and under all get $200 or less. The main point is this. She doesn't stay just for a hour or until the job is finished. If that was the case I would stay ITC. She stays at the minimum of 4 hours up to 24 hours for a sleep over. This covers multiple pops and all the snuggling and conversation you can stand. The other big point is you actually make love and French kiss and do all the Shit that makes you feel like its a real GF.

This can be done with strippers, massage girls, escorts...it's all about getting them off the clock.

This is the true angle I shoot for. The dances, entry fees, first date cost is all to get to know each other and see if you guys can make a good situation out of this.

This is why I think I will be a natural at being a sugar daddy once I get my paper up. Until then I have to save up to do so.

Example I basically spend about $300 month on trying to find a GF situation witch hardly happens. In the mean time I'm actually saving another $300 month to fund the OTC experience once I find the correct play.

Usually I will have $3,000-$6,000 saved up before I start pampering a bitch OTC. In this way she believes I'm loaded so she is getting what she needs and wants and I get what I need and want even if I'm technically on a budget but making it seem to her like I'm balling lol

Gotta fake it until you make it dawg.

By the time I'm in my 50s with every thing I'm doing now I will no longer be faking it

Bet theirs son advice for all you young or broke players and inspiring daddies in how to fake it until you make it

Also usually I hit the club with $300 huno in pocket and usually spend $75-$150 of it so I normally roll the rest of it into my OTC GF account

More now than in past times I get tired of butches faster so usually I will have $6k and deplet it down to $3k then exit usually because I'm board of hitting the same Shit. I like this because it takes some time to find the next one so I'm actually growing my OTC account instead of always going broke then staring over...on average I'm gaining $2,000 each bitch I connect with

Example $6k down to 3k bitch number one start to finish

Bitch #2 I start with $8k then go down to $6k at finish

Bitch #3 I start with $9,000 and exit with $7,000k

My payment on avg is $300 per GF experience and on avg the girls are 7-8 range.

The math might not be perfect but you boy's get the point...I never did clam to be smart lol

All the above. But I like to build the foundation for pricing with a little ITC and discuss to pricing for OTC. Many times you will get the ridiculous price but with some logic and negotiations should arrive at market rates. I like to let them stew on it, unless it is a great offer from her to start with. Then hang in club on a slow day or bill time, and you will be surprised how many will approach you to see if you are still interested and even lower the price just to generate some cash for the day. I have been lucky enough on multiple occasions that once you crack the OTC with them, that you get the full day fun and games with the free slap and tickle or a small tip. It is all about establishing trust, if you are looking for repeat visits... other wise FUCK HER IN THE ASS, AND LEAVE. $$$

I agree with the trust issue

I also agree manly with strippers starting out some give ridiculously expensive prices that later on comes down

It's a lot like buying a new car and the sticker price

I prefer OTC to ITC and so I'm willing to pay a little more. I usually pay $100 more for OTC, but some dancers are happy with the same amount as I pay them ITC.

Jack don't lie

Juice, thanks for the shout out. I agree RE: trust (between sponsor and provider).

the two prices are kind of related sometimes. A lot of the OTC ive done over the years. the girls have looked at it as an alternative to doing a VIP, except the club gets none of the money. You throw in a nice dinner and laid back atmoshpere and you will be surprised how many girls will go for that.

Dominic thumbs up buddy

Butter true that.

I'm not much on going out in public with my hoe but I've been known to cater some fine dinning back at the house or hotel for the two of us

Always keep the wine on tap

Bitches love da wines

i usually keep a box of wine in the fridge.

Or more of a cider guy of fag beer but I can't right now because I'm cutting

Lol