Sugaring

This whole area is an eye-opener. I've had kinda-sort arrangement-like things before, but after some discussions here and on other forums, I joined SA. It is a huge eye-opener in a couple of ways:

• Insane numbers of beautiful women. It is pretty clear what's going on: this is a way for a beautiful woman to selectively (unlike an escort, say) make money off a well-off man, in a way that lets her rationalize that she's not part of the sex industry.

• WAAAAY more flexibility than you think. I thought EXACTLY the way you did -- $3000 to be arm candy a few times a month. And, in fact, you will find that sort of thing. But you'll also find every other type of arrangement as well, from as little as <$1000/month, to plenty of girls who are willing to consider a per-meeting "allowance". And girls who split the difference, as in, "let's do a per-meeting allowance for a few times until we're both sure we want to go SD/SB, then we'll talk about switching to monthly". Nearly all the girls realize this is ultimately play-for-pay .... some will indeed try to get $400/meeting just to socialize with you, but the majority realize intimacy is required in order for them to get their "allowance", which is why many are picky about chemistry.

From lots of discussion with other guys who have been on SA for years, there are some pretty amazing experiences to be had... and since the girls are civilians (well, most of them -- lots of escorts and strippers are on SA also), you can get civilian-level education/maturity/responsibility with stripper-level hotness, at a cost that might be less than what you'd pay for 3 OTCs a month.

There's lots of things to watch out for, lots of camgirls, scams, escorts, strippers, girls who want to get paid just to socialize with you, girls who want to get paid even for the very first meeting (when there will definitely be no sex, since you're just feeling each other out). But, show the same backbone and common sense as you need in a strip club, and I'm anticipating a great ride

fuck, I did the dreaded less-than sign and lost the rest of the post. I fucking hate this software sometimes. Anyway, picking up from where I was:

• WAAAAY more flexibility than you think. I thought EXACTLY the way you did -- $3000 to be arm candy a few times a month. And, in fact, you will find that sort of thing. But you'll also find every other type of arrangement as well, from as little as well less than $1000 per month, to girls who will take per-meeting "allowance" instead of asking for monthly, to girls who split the difference, as in "let's do per-meeting until we're sure we want to continue together, then transition to monthly".

In short, you can get civilian type education/maturity/responsibility with stripper-level hotness, at a price that might be less than the 3 OTC/month you're doing anyway. I've spoken to a lot of very experienced SA guys, and they've had some awesome experiences. The vast majority of girls realize this is ultimately pay-for-play and sex is required, which is why there's a lot of emphasis on chemistry.

There are things to watch out for: loads of camgirls, escorts, and strippers on the site. Girls who indeed want $5000/month just to spend time with you, no sex. Girls who want to get a per-meeting fee even for the very first meeting together, even though that first meeting won't lead to sex. But, build up some backbone and common sense, same as you need in the strip club not to get taken advantage of. I'm anticipating a great ride.

A sugar baby arrangement can be whatever is agreed upon between the two parties. Everything is negotiable.

Exactly what Subra said. There are women looking for large sums of money to be arm candy only, but also a lot of 8's and 9's that are available for 200 to 350 per date, that will get intimate. Like he said, the women pick and choose who they feel comfortable with, so it's a selection procesd for them, a bit like dating. You have to spend time screening the profiles and going on meet and greets, but the outcome is awesome. 8's and 9's that you get 3 to 4 hour dates with, for less than the cost of a VIP session at some strip clubs. Also, the women looking for big bucks to be arm candy are completely delusional. Nobody is signing up for that or giving them that. It's free for the girls to sign up, so some just view it as playing the lottery, hoping to score a big fish for nothing.

But, to answer your question Bav, you don't need a mansion or a yacht to be a SD. Just some disposable income. Treat the email exchanges and first dates like you are dealing with civies, so the women feel comfortable around you and not creeped out, and you should be good to go. If they like you, it improves your negotiating too. I've had women who were seeking 'up to 10k allowance' who started seeing me for only 200 per week, intimacy included, simply because they liked me after our first date and felt comfortable around me. Good luck Bav! I think you'll get a lot better return on your money spent in the sugar world, but that's just my 2 or 3 cents.

Interesting topic. Being a SB seems more acceptable than being stripper despite what it really means. She can justify she's not selling sex whereas a prostitute is.

Amazing the powerful of justification, where the end is the same but a different name. Don't underestimate it.

Yes, the very first girl I met told me she wouldn't consider per-meet allowance, she didn't like how transactional it felt. But, to make up for it, she was willing to have a number of meetings with me, for free, for us to get to know each other so that I could decide whether I liked her enough to go monthly -- she realized I wasn't going to just hand over monthly payments to someone I didn't know.

I wonder how the monthly allowance works.

If it's paid up front, the SB could disappear. Same with the SD if the services are rendered up front. I guess half of the allowance up front and half at the end of the month is a good compromise.

I think SBs and escorts feel safer meeting men because they have been screened in some way.

Strippers have to charge more to meet outside because they are taking more risks. They don't know anything about you.

I am reluctant to have my picture in a sugar daddy web site though, lol.

-->"If it's paid up front, the SB could disappear. Same with the SD if the services are rendered up front. I guess half of the allowance up front and half at the end of the month is a good compromise. "

Bav, I entered this thinking this way also ...the more experienced SDs convinced me that it wasn't something I needed to sweat so much. Partially, that's because -- as long as you're using good common sense and screening -- this kind of thing isn't happening to SDs. Not that there aren't SDs getting ripped off, but they are more often the SD equivalent of a clueless SC customer who hears a stripper say "I'll make sure you leave happy in the back", hands over his $400 for the champagne room, and gets nothing.

More importantly, you think the girl is going to meet you -- possibly multiple times, for free -- and then have sex with you, all to abscond with your $600? Hell, when I think about it, there have been times when I saw a stripper ITC 2-4 times before I asked her to go OTC (so $600-$1000 already spent on her), and then either got told "no", or she told me "yes" but they never answered my texts to set up an OTC date.

In short, you need to get meet in advance that you get close enough that you develop some trust, until you're willing to take a bit of an educated risk. And if you can't do that, maybe SDing isn't for you. Although so far, every girl I've talked to has said she'd at least consider per-meet allowance once or twice, until we're both comfortable moving forward with monthly. At which point, I'm not going to bother with staggered payments

What or who is TG?

TravelingGolfer

I can only speak for me but I'm a bit of a niche PL.

If I desire for her to spend time w/ me as a companion (dinner, etc) then I have no problem paying her for her time for dinner b/c I'm getting what I want - but if a dinner meet is just to get to know each other to see if there will be future arrangements, then know I would not pay her for her time beyond just paying for the dinner since I consider that a business appt rather than a date.

Bav, just an fyi. In my experience so far, I've been on first dates with about 8 different women and started arrangements with 3 of them, which have led to 2nd dates and sex each time. Every single one of those women have been fine with per date allowance. Not a single one of them has even asked me for a monthly allowance. And, each time, they got their allowance at the end of the date and never asked for it up front. There was only one woman who asked me for money in advance and I think she may have been a con artist, so I didn't proceed with her.

Oh, last thing. You don't have to post your photo on the site. Women are required to, but you don't have to. I have a photo of my full body with the head cropped out. Oncr I start getting to know a girl and set up a date, I'll text them a photo.

Also, I think strippers, escorts, and SB's all take on the same risk going OTC, so meeting in person first is their best form of screening.

-->"Oh, last thing. You don't have to post your photo on the site. Women are required to, but you don't have to. I have a photo of my full body with the head cropped out. Oncr I start getting to know a girl and set up a date, I'll text them a photo."

My public photos also have my face cropped out. I also have some private photos, with my face, but if you're paranoid about the site getting broken into, just texting a photo seems fine.

TG, after a lot of discussions with a lot of SDs, the general impression I have is, some years back it was very uncommon for girls to accept per-meet (unless they were escorts on the site), but it's becoming more and more common. Still, you may have gotten lucky with your 8-of-8 being willing to go that route. I'm hoping I get as lucky as you :)

-->"If I desire for her to spend time w/ me as a companion (dinner, etc) then I have no problem paying her for her time for dinner b/c I'm getting what I want - but if a dinner meet is just to get to know each other to see if there will be future arrangements, then know I would not pay her for her time beyond just paying for the dinner since I consider that a business appt rather than a date."

While I won't pay for mere time as a companion under any circumstances -- not even part of stripper OTC -- we're definitely aligned that a get-to-know-you initial arrangement date is something where the risk should be shared. It's out of the question to me that I'd pay her for that, beyond of course paying for all the food and alcohol.

It's funny how the view differs on StripperWeb (surprise surprise!). The girls there who have played around with SA definitely hate the per-meet guys, and guys who won't pay for them to meet for the initial get-to-know-you lunch, etc

Yeah, I would not pay any chick upfront, especially one I barely know, not a dime.

Just like there are dancers that survive if not thrive by ripping-off custies, I imagine there are SBs that survive if not thrive by getting PLs to pay upfront & then disappearing onto the next PL.

Yeah, I agree Subra. Probably just been lucky up until now. Glad to see per meet is the trend though. Makes it easier if you want to play the field with more than one SB at a time. :)

And Papi is right. Buyer beware, just like in the strip club. Hustlers and con artists lurk, so have to use your noodle and not be a chump.

I've been on SA since Jan. Some random thoughts:

(1) This is a form of sex-work for the masses.

(2) In my city offering $200 to $350 (as TG mentioned) would most likely get you blocked. As a crude starting point, take the price of a nice apartment in your area and that would be the monthly rate for meeting once per week.

(3) What @Smith pays ($1000/meet + shopping + trips) would buy you Sarah from Dartmouth who models part-time for Victoria's Secret and who's on early admissions to Harvard Law.

(4) I filter out everything except girls with edu accounts, and still have 10X the number of choices I would have in a strip club.

(5) Many dancers (hard to guess the percentages) are already on SA.

(6) SA is not a good choice if you want a different partner every 2 weeks.

(7) Girls on SA who want to meet you at a hotel before a meet@greet are escorts. Never pay for a meet&greet.

...that's off the top of my head.

RandomMember: I agree with 1 & 7. So, you are saying 200 to 350 per week allowance would get you blocked in your city? Interesting. I never even discuss allowance at first. I let them know everything is negotiable, and it is, but don't even discuss allowance until I've met them in person. Haven't been blocked by anyone yet.

TG?

If you want to be in public with the girl, then I guess that makes it sugaring. But if you just want her in bed, or for toda la noche, then you are not paying for times in public with her.

Whatever you want.

I like the European idea of having a "Mistress", rather than the American idea of a "Sugar Baby".

SJG

The Fundamental Teachings of Ancient Alchemy and Hermeticism youtube.com

@TG: Certainly the low-end at $200 would not work in major metro areas. I usually give an approx. allowance range before meeting so that we're on the same page, approximately.

RM: gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

Does it make sense to talk about "per week" without mentioning how many dates per week you expect? $250 per date, for 4 dates per month, works out to $1000 a month -- a number girls in San Francisco (2nd most expensive city in the country, arguably) seem to be fine with.

I would dip into the sugar bowl, but not for less than 8k a month. I'd shoot for 10k. I'd also expect extra spending money when I accompany him on work trips.

A real sugar daddy is in fact very rich so that he can help the younger woman establish herself in life... real sugar daddies do buy cars, pay tuition (for real universities), buy expensive gifts, give black cards, even buy houses. I would not be interested in a man as a sugar daddy who isn't a millionaire. Multi-millionaire would be better. Real sugar daddies don't do cheap p4p for 300 a session, that's the exact same thing as prostitution. Real SDs treat their sugar babies as an asset to their lives. They may even set them investments, stocks, hell IRA accounts... I've even known some to name them in their will.

The best sugar daddies can't even be found on those websites, generally. A good SD can be found in a Ritz-Carlton, or a country club, or an exotic car dealership. That's where you find the Elites.

youtu.be

I'm sure she's not the most successful in the world, but definitely a success. And she's 37!

Let's not forget the ultimate sugar baby, Anna Nicole Smith (RIP). I think she was 26 when she married the billionaire who she knew would soon be dead. Set for life, if only she'd stayed away from the heavy drugs and suicide attempts.

Thanks for bringing us back to Earth, Nina.

I mean, what sugar baby worth her salt is going to settle for $300 per date when there are so many multi-millionaires out there.

10k a month and no sex, right? Sounds reasonable, LOL!

Now I don't fee so bad about how much I spend on my CF per month. Neither does Gawker or JS69

SMH

Nina makes valid points and I don't disagree with anything she says. However, I also agree with Subra above. There are so many women on those sugaring sites and women outnumber men by about 10 to 1, from what I've read, that the women are pretty flexible about what they'll accept. Like Subra said, even women in San Francisco, one of the most expensive cities in the U.S. are open to around $250 per date.

And, from my experience, I'm finding college educated 8's and 9's who can hold a conversation and wouldn't embarrass you in a restaurant, who are also open arrangements in the price range Subra mentions. For some of these younger women with student loan debts they are trying to pay off, or struggling to make ends meet, an extra $1,000 per month, plus getting nice dinners and staying at 4 star hotels, is a big help to their lives.

I've been avoiding the flat out escorts too and just focusing on the women that are looking for just one guy. The classier, lower mileage types. Sure, you can call them prostitutes if you want, but they are educated and girl next door types. My most recent SB is a woman that was a successful stripper at one of the best clubs in the U.S. and got tired of stripping. She's beautiful.

Potential SB's like Nina can potentially get the big bucks she's looking for, but there aren't a whole lot of SD's to go around that will be willing to drop that kind of money. And, the ones that will spend that much, will have a TON of women to choose from, so it will be tough to land a guy like that.

"10k a month and no sex, right? Sounds reasonable, LOL!" Um, I said 10k a month... I didn't say 10k a month an no sex...

If I'm going to be devoting my own time to a sugar daddy and going on trips with him, I wouldn't also want to juggle a boyfriend who most likely wouldn't be OK with me traveling the world with another guy. So getting my sex from a sugar daddy would be convenient and probably financially rewarding...

With regard to 10k, I've met these types of guys before. I usually only strung them along for a few months, and get as much money from them as I could before they realized I wasn't going to provide them with sex.

I was also younger back then, probably not mature enough for a truly prosperous sugar relationship and I didn't want one.

As far as the guys having tons of women to choose from, being intelligent, articulate, cultured, well-dressed, and up to date on current issues is what will make you stand apart from the rest of the girls who have the looks but aren't polished enough to be able to attend events with him and be taken seriously.

IDK much about the SD scene beyond what's been discussed on TUSCL.

But as has been mentioned; a big part of it is supply and demand - rich milllionares willing and able to put their SB in the 1% bracket are probably almost the equivalent of literally winning the lotto.

And at the end of the day it's just old-fashioned P4P which has been around since the beginning of time and since the P4P beginning there have been some providers at the top making serious $$$ w/ most of the providers being in the middle -sorta like Manhattanlk and Vegas SCs where a VIP may set you back $1k or $2k but probably few people spend that kinda $$$ particularly nation-wide.

And as w/ most things; many things often come down in price once they become mainstream or more-mainstream and it's not as unique anymore - perhaps in the inception of the SD/SB websites there were more whales to go around per SB; but now the cat is out of the bag and seems SBs may be being affected by the forces of over-supply

with my present financial situation i guess i need to just be happy with the occasional stripper.

My ATATF took a $20-30k from a guy over the course of a few months, so such guys are out there. She kept me appraised of the drama, and it seemed like the more she withheld sex, the more in love with her he became, and the more he doubled-down on his investment. It was a nice few months for her until the inevitable epiphany and break-up. Still, such guys are out there -- not exactly easy to find.

For myself, I don't remotely care about being a "real sugardaddy", at least as defined by anyone from SW :) What I do want is to have sex with a beautiful woman who is as hot as a stripper, for typical OTC prices, without stripper-type drama, but with civilian-level reliability and maturity ... and from what I hear from many experienced non-real sugar daddies, that's exactly what's available on SA -- along with a glut of beautiful young women. Seems like a "have your cake and eat it too" type situation, but evidently it's not.

I think this is the "wild west" days of arrangements; best to indulge now before norms get established and SBs start pricing themselves more sanely

"... What I do want is to have sex with a beautiful woman who is as hot as a stripper, for typical OTC prices, without stripper-type drama, but with civilian-level reliability and maturity ..."

Doesn't seem like too much to ask - but as Nina mentioned one may not be getting top-quality for low-dollars - and as TG mentioned; he's just gotten started on this and has already been thru 8 candidates but I guess this may be par of the course.

I agree Subra. I don't consider myself a "real sugardaddy" either, although I am financially independent. I definitely don't want to be called one or have any of the women refer to me as "daddy". Lol. Barf. I have the exact same philosophy as you. It's just an avenue to meet beautiful women.

Another factor affecting supply and demand is the fact that there are a lot of con artist men on the site. Guys who are completely broke or not willing to spend anything on a sugar relationship, who pretend to be rich, just to get women to sleep with them for free. From what these women have told me, there are a LOT of guys like that on the site. The women are so fed up with the BS and the posers that when a real guy comes along who is actually willing to spend money on them, even if it's not a fortune, they are thrilled to have a genuine arrangement on the table. So, if you have some money to spend and aren't a creep who freaks them out, you are in pretty good shape.

Papi, to follow up on the 8 candidates, one note. A few of the women used old pictures and have put on weight, so I wasn't interested in pursuing them. It's similar to regular online dating in that people will often use their most flattering pictures, even if they don't look that good. I'm pretty picky and out of the 8 women, I'd say 4 of them were hot.

"... Another factor affecting supply and demand is the fact that there are a lot of con artist men on the site. Guys who are completely broke or not willing to spend anything on a sugar relationship, who pretend to be rich, just to get women to sleep with them for free ...."

Dammit Juice - get off SA !

LOL!

Papi, you know he's going to sign up for SA tonight now!!!

^ yeah - and have a shitload of aliases too LOL

I'd say men laying out 10K a month for a mistress are extremely rare. For one there just aren't that many people that can drop 120K a year like that, even if they're making half a million. The portion of that group that actively wants a mistress AND can get away with it, is even smaller. Lastly if you have that kind of money you can probably get one a lot cheaper if you're willing to string them along.

IMO "real" sd/sb relationships are rare. It's mostly GFE escorting.

True. Well said and good point jester.

There's the extreme end of the SDSB relationship which sounds like Nina's referring to. Extreme, but small minority that gets more widespread coverage. The guys there don't see value the same way guys here see it. They're paying for prestige(perceived). They got more money than sense(obviously) and I don't buy that they're paying for sex. They're paying for status. And what history has taught us is that status will always be what money chases.

"...I think this is the "wild west" days of arrangements; best to indulge now before norms get established and SBs start pricing themselves more sanely..."

I don't see that happening. The SBs will always come in varying tiers. If anything I see it dropping and am surprised with the prices I'm hearing now. As any sex industry has become more mainstream and abundant the costs have historically gone down. Think strippers and porn stars. I don't see how the sugar industry would be any different.

"... there are a lot of con artist men on the site. Guys who are completely broke or not willing to spend anything on a sugar relationship, who pretend to be rich, just to get women to sleep with them for free. From what these women have told me, there are a LOT of guys like that on the site. The women are so fed up with the BS and the posers that when a real guy comes along who is actually willing to spend money on them, even if it's not a fortune, they are thrilled to have a genuine arrangement on the table. So, if you have some money to spend and aren't a creep who freaks them out..."

Sounds like the current SC scene.

Papi lol...what does SA stand for ? I assume the website ? More details please and a link if possible

jester-->" I'd say men laying out 10K a month for a mistress are extremely rare. For one there just aren't that many people that can drop 120K a year like that, even if they're making half a million"

That's true. But it's more than that -- Nina realizes something that some of us are overlooking

Nina-->"If I'm going to be devoting my own time to a sugar daddy and going on trips with him, I wouldn't also want to juggle a boyfriend who most likely wouldn't be OK with me traveling the world with another guy."

Even if I had $10k to burn, I wouldn't remotely be interested in this model. Why? Because the $10k/month guys are not looking for 3 dates per month, as I am. They are looking to see her almost every day, almost as a for-hire fantasy girlfriend, which I am not remotely interested in. A sugarbaby getting $10k/month only has time for her sugardaddy -- or at least, that's the way it's been structured every time I've heard of it.

stripfighter-->" I don't see that happening. The SBs will always come in varying tiers. If anything I see it dropping and am surprised with the prices I'm hearing now. As any sex industry has become more mainstream and abundant the costs have historically gone down. Think strippers and porn stars. I don't see how the sugar industry would be any different. "

Yeah, I guess it could go the other way ... if arrangements become LESS stigmatized, that more more supply, and that means lower prices, to a point

hey hot beautiful girl. i got $100. what do you say... let's do it.

TG-->"Another factor affecting supply and demand is the fact that there are a lot of con artist men on the site. Guys who are completely broke or not willing to spend anything on a sugar relationship, who pretend to be rich, just to get women to sleep with them for free. From what these women have told me, there are a LOT of guys like that on the site. The women are so fed up with the BS and the posers that when a real guy comes along who is actually willing to spend money on them, even if it's not a fortune, they are thrilled to have a genuine arrangement on the table. So, if you have some money to spend and aren't a creep who freaks them out, you are in pretty good shape."

Yep, I can already see that, and I haven't been doing this very long. There are lots of horrible guys, not just posers, but guys behave horribly in other ways. KNowing there's so many losers on the site makes it easier for anyone who treats the women well. But it also means any female who has been on SA for long has very little patience for "time wasters", so you have to appear sincere and move shockingly quickly once you make contact with a potential SB. I thought they'd want to spend more time emailing, to get a feel for the SD and make sure they'll be safe, but getting the guy to either shit or get off the pot seems to be the priority

Subra, very true. Also, some girls have shared stories with me of predatory guys who have put them in very compromising positions on the first date, where they literally had to run away, to escape being sexually assaulted. Very creepy.

Has anyone actually seen a YOUNG sugar daddy? Like a well off young man who takes women as sugar baby? I'd find it implausible because usually their handsome but life is never straightforward so you never know.

Juice: seekingarrangement.com

Can I create your profile for you? Or, one of you 50 profiles? Lol. :)

justin beeber. or however the heck it is spelled. New money or blueblood. I have to admit to being envious.

Tiburon: It depends on what you consider young. I'm below 50, but look a lot younger. A few of the women have told me "you look really young. you're the youngest guy i've seen on here."

Yeah; we often see it from our POV of not getting ripped-off by a ROB but the provider; especially a SB meeting a PL from a website; probably often runs more and higher risks than the PL and something to keep in mind when trying to establish some repore w/ them.

Rich guys under 30 on SA are there only if they are creepy or unattractive IRL.

Travel thank you and go for it lol

Ha ha. Okay Juice. I was out last night, so I'm bored at home tonight. Nothing better to do, so I'm creating it now. I'll give you the user ID and password soon. Ha ha.

Just like at the strip club, older men seem to be at a premium on SA.. Younger men have a reputation as not understanding the for-pay aspect, or simply not wanting to pay. As a result a good number of women say no one under 35 orr 40 in their profiles

"Even if I had $10k to burn, I wouldn't remotely be interested in this model. Why? Because the $10k/month guys are not looking for 3 dates per month, as I am. They are looking to see her almost every day, almost as a for-hire fantasy girlfriend, which I am not remotely interested in. A sugarbaby getting $10k/month only has time for her sugardaddy -- or at least, that's the way it's been structured every time I've heard of it."

Subraman - I have to disagree. Millionaires are going to be very busy with their job/businesses to be able to see their sugar baby almost every day - that's one of the things that sets it apart from just a trophy-girlfriend/kept girlfriend... a lot of sugar daddies know they don't have a lot of time to time to devote to a relationship. Some of them are married, although I personally wouldn't sleep with a married man. Never the less, some have families too and some don't even live in the same state as their sugar babies.

I think once a week is a good start until more chemistry is developed, then there's events to attends and trips to go on, but still not close to every day. Although they may communicate nearly every day via phone calls, texts, skype, whatever.

So a guy who kinda wants a gf [and wants to spoil her] but doesn't have time for a serious gf and finds a hot young thing who can handle the lifestyle, and he can take her around his rich friends and even colleagues and they'll be impressed? Shelling out that kind of money won't hurt their pockets, and will help their ego.

@ 10k the SD is paying for the retainers fee and exclusivity.

Nina: " real sugar daddies do... pay tuition (for real universities)"

Real universities. As opposed to the obscure community college that you go to.

There are some real weird fucks in this world. Won't surprise me one bit to learn that are a decent number of weirdos out there who would pay $10k a month for a non-sex arrangement. Now whether they would pick Nina as opposed to a girl who was intelligent and went to a good school is a whole other matter.

Juice: I am easily amused. Creating your profile now. Your username is DaJuiceMane. Your headline is "Got Juice?" The allowance you are willing to spend on a girl is up to $10k per month and your net worth is $2 million. You are going to have a lot of women looking at your profile. Ha ha. I'll email you the password info, so you can upload a picture.

Yes, and another thing about sugar babies is that they are also paid to be drama-free. A girlfriend could end up bringing stress and drama, escorts as well - just think of some of the insanity some of guys here who have shared their stories have endured. The right sugar baby, the kind who snags a millionaire, knows not to bring any more drama or stress into his life than there already may be (with work and some of these guys having families, their lives are already stressful). The sugar baby is a relief of this stress and kind of like a part-time, extremely spoiled gf.

My #2 favorite, quit dancing and disappeared for a year. An occasional photo showed up on FB and usually in an exotic location. After a year I heard from her and she claimed to have been. A "traveling companion" for a billionaire ( on Forbes list). He was in his 40's and travelled by private jet and brought my friend along about a week or more per month. They split and she's now broke, hitting me up for cigarette money. However she has a $10,000 Rolex, real Yves St. Laurent luggage and claims the her SD paid her expenses, gave her an Amex card with a $35000 credit limit, and set up an investment account that he still manages. Some is SS but there's a foundation to her story and I'm wondering why she can't access her "investments" if they exist. So such arrangements do exist. And Unicorns, too. However, she is well read, up to speed on current events, and while she loves her drugs she seems able to walk away from them much more easily than the heavily addicted friends I know. She can dine at The Ritz and use the right fork every time.

@gawker: He might have set up a trust for her which would explain why she couldn't touch it.

@gawker, I'm surprised she hasn't pawned the Rolex yet.

And, then of course, there's high profile sugaring gone wrong:

The Disturbing Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby Relationship Between Donald Sterling and V. Stiviano (and How You Can Learn From It)

earnthenecklace.com

Oh I know all about that. She was living the life fot a while, then she lost nearly everything.

I bet she could still get money outta him. That guy was crazy though. I listened to the recording. He was delusional. She is half black, you can tell she is at least part black by looking at her and he still wanted her to try to pass for being "delicate white girl" or "delicate latina girl" because she is half Mexican. She does not look at all white, because she isn't. Lol

Again, I think the kind of relationship Nina is talking about is virtually non-existent.

Well, you are incorrect, I'm sorry...

Ok jester214 I'm gonna rewind a bit... "virtually non-existent" can be a subjective term, so if what you're saying is that they are rare, I'll agree with you there.

-->"Subraman - I have to disagree. Millionaires are going to be very busy with their job/businesses to be able to see their sugar baby almost every day - that's one of the things that sets it apart from just a trophy-girlfriend/kept girlfriend... a lot of sugar daddies know they don't have a lot of time to time to devote to a relationship"

Nina, you could be right, my model is the one such relationship I know firsthand-- that is, my ATATF's. That guy was busy, but he wanted her with him on the weekends -- precisely to show off for his friends -- occasionally on business trips, and a few days during the week (usually late -- sometimes we'd be talking at 10pm and she'd be on her way to his house). That kinda made sense to me, you're paying $10k/month for a 10 with an incredible personality who makes you feel like a king, it makes sense to me that he wants to see her a lot, and he probably saw her 4-5 days a week. Still, my sample size of 1 might be skewed :)

She did NOT meet him on SA, and in fact she tried SA and felt it could not meet her needs. She meets her millionaires in person, one after the other. That guy was her biggest but not her only.

The guys Nina is describing are UHNW individuals worth 8-9 figures. They are out there. Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to go around, at least not for all of the gorgeous SBs out there. Nina does have a decent shot at snagging one, though.

No, they don't need dates as often as Subraman suggests. They are too busy with all of the other demands for their time.

In exchange for time on trips and time on the yacht, it only seems far for her to receive an allowance that allows her to live a little lap of luxury (~$100,000-$120,000 .. or at least something a bit in excess of $60,000/year). Now, I read some of their SBs will receive a modest base allowance rate .. even only $5K/mo, the often she'll receive huge bonuses in tips and gifts, sort of like Nina suggests with investments, cars, tuition, plastic surgery, cash gifts, life mentoring .. aka "wife status." I read it's not uncommon for some SBs, even ones with "lowly" $5K/mo allowances, to talk away from the arrangement with $500,000 in total compensation after 18 months!

The target is UHNW individuals in 8-9 figures of wealth. This is not the typical $350K/yr Tuscl "proletariat."

Exceedingly rare, virtually non-existent. There simply aren't enough people who can afford it and among those who can they can get a better deal.

Also depends on the area. You'll find more millionaires in La, san fran, nyc, even atlanta.

I live in a pretty affluent city, and the surrounding cities are nice too. Very high income. I could probably find a decent sd, but that might be too close to home.

How often do these babies expect their daddies to see them? Can I be a daddy and only want a date once a month?

Travel lol that's funny as fuck lol

There are millions of millionaires in the US. The vast majority are men. Out of those, there is a sizable number who are either single or want a side piece. The key is to go to places where you are likely to meet millionaires.

Could you imagine Juice as Nina's SD - that would be reality TV material for sure

jester, it's a sad state of affairs when people worth 8 figures (and willing to be a SD or a sponsor) is "Exceedingly rare, virtually non-existent." I thought capitalism had more excesses than that!

Just being a millionaire isn't enough to spend 120K a year on a mistress.

You need to be earning that a year, before taxes, to realistically be just giving that away.

I'd want my sugar daddy to make several million a year... at least 3 million.

In NYC there's probably 5 thousand people making that. Eliminate the women and the homosexuals and you're even less. 4 thousand? Probably less. Eliminate the ones not willing or able to have a mistress? A thousand, maybe 500, maybe less.

I enjoyed this discussion. Especially Subraman accounts.

I have thought and still imagine SD is for men for whom money does not matter. So we are talking $1M+ annual income and $3M_ net worth. I think most SBs also seek that ideal.

Then comes reality - For every multi-millionaire there would be 100-500 stunningly beautiful & smart women - thanks to deeper divide between haves and have nots - and thanks to plastic surgeons. (The ratio is gonna get better in the next 10 years - or worse, if you are a SB)

Clearly a lot of SB are gonna see disappointment - with one "friend of a friend" success story keeping their own strands of hope alive.

And out of all this is born the "practical SB" - accepting smaller gigs - but with the right guys - fun guys (like Subra, TG, etc. not multi-millionaires - but well-to-do). All the while keeping an eye out for a real SD. Nothin wrong with this arrangement.

I'm an everyday guy. Have $15-$25K annual disposable income. Used to spend on NFL, NBA, Travel, Cars. Now spend on girls, supper and sex. Strip clubs still is the best deal for me. In a safe and non committal setting - I can get to know the dancers over a few visits (somewhat). No ITC for me. Dancers get to know me - and If the chemistry is mutual - dancers themselves drop OTC hints. I pick it up from there. Admitted there can be some dull periods and some no shows - but generally It's worked well.

And, of all the places to look for women - strip clubs offers my preferred choices: Pole Dancers - many of who have athletic, curvaceous, hard bodies, coming from blue collar backgrounds.

Nina I grossed 30 millions last year

Because of this thread I'm actually going to create a non troll account and see what I can find in my location...the pictures I've seen are a shit load of bueitful bitches....kinda excited about this

I will keep you guys posted on my experience

Also can any one tell me if the $50 a month is worth it or not ?

$50 a month towards a GED would certainly be worth it for you

This is interesting, but I know quite a few UHNW individuals and they don't throw money around wastefully, most of the UHNW guys I know demand value and any SB would have to do more than just look good, and suck dick to get any of these guys to give them money with out working for it.

There is also some funky bitxhes on derrr as well wonder if I can get some $100 hook ups

So basicly I guy could save up a grand or two and have one or two great months of girlfriend experience sex..

Kinda dig this concept

What's this "affluent" city Nina lives in? I didn't know there were any in Michigan. Is this kind like she mentally stretches things a bit so the obscure community college she attends becomes a good school?

Interesting post and discussion. The focus of my clubbing life and spending has shifted to sugaring. I'm in two SD/SB relationships where I've committed to $600 per month in spending with each of my friends. Their situations are very different.

SB#1 is a genuine student, lives with parents, no kids, no BF, mid-20s. Met her at a strip club. She was an elite dancer, providing UHM GFE services. Enjoyed a couple awesome OTC sessions. Then learned she wanted to quit stripping. Committed to $600 per month for unlimited dates, including overnight stays. I pay for all the entertainment and always bring a gift. We see each other about once a month, for a 1- or 2-night overnight stay. Have even done 3-night visits. Our deal is no P4P, just the monthly allowance. Relationship is very close to a civvy GF situation. I know her family and friends.

SB#2 is an active stripper who has been in the business for awhile. Smart, degreed, mid-30s, divorced, young kids, nice apartment in the suburbs. During our first convo at her club, when I mentioned I had a SB she immediately expressed interest in being one too. I hadn't even gotten a dance from her yet. LOL! Turns out she was familiar with sugaring, as it fit her desire for incremental income and fun with someone she likes. Met for dinner the next day and agreed on $600 per night, since all our meet ups would involve an overnight stay. Commitment is at least once per month, and, if chemistry is maintained, to have the arrangement over an extended period of time. This has worked out quite well. I pay for entertainment, hotels and gifts. Again, more like a GF situation since she doesn't have a BF.

I used to spend a lot of my entertainment budget playing top notch golf courses, traveling, and eating out. Then that spend shifted to strip clubs. Now it's focused on spending quality time with a couple gorgeous, fun, sexy, smart young women. Life is swell. Wish I could afford one or two more of these arrangements.

Nice post, thanks for sharing HG. Sounds like great situations you have. Mine are and have been similar. Very realistic GFE, close to a civie relationship, with women who seem to be seeing only me, because of their busy lives. Although their allowances have been weekly, we text every day, share the details of our personal lives with one another, and have no time limits on our dates. We'll often spend 3, 4, or more hours together and we have intelligent conversations or laugh and joke around together. We feel very comfortable around one another, which is one of the reasons that it's much more like a real relationship than simply a transaction. I think there are quite a few SB's out there that are happy to accept a more moderate allowance, along with dinner, hotel, date, and trip costs, if they are in a an arrangement or a relationship with someone they genuinely enjoy spending time with. I think this is why they spend time screening guys, meeting them in person for free at first, etc. If they didn't really like someone, then they would either say no to the arrangement, demand a much higher allowance, and/or cut the dates short. I'm noticing that a lot of these women treat it much more like civilian dating and don't have the escort or stripper mentality, where they feel like they should be gettin X amount of dollars per hour. Anyway, like HG, I'm finding my spending money shifting from SC's to sugaring, because it seems to be a lot more fulfilling and enjoyable for me, and a much better return on my money spent. Also, the women I'm sugaring with are just as attractive as my favorite strippers were. If anything, they are a little nicer and more genuine girl next door types. So far so good.

TG (and everyone else), what have the mechanics been for payment? You put money in her checking account? Hand money to her the first time you see her that month (or week)? Send money directly to her bills? Venmo?

I'm still brand new and pursuing my first SA SB, but I've had arrangement-ish relationships in the past, and we've used a combination of Venmo and paying her bills directly. She didn't like me to hand her money lol. So she'd give me her web logins and I'd pay bills for her, although Venmo was used a lot also

watch out for a bunch of strippers to start hanging out at Ferrari dealerships

Subra, I think those are all good methods. Really, whichever you prefer. For my first arrangement, I sent money via Paypal. Convenient, but there's an electronic paper trail, and she'll know your real name and you'll know hers. We already knew each others' real names, so that wasn't a big deal at that point. I was concerned about a constant paper trail going forward, so I thought about depositing cash into her checking account as you mentioned. I never asked her though, because didn't want to put her in an awkward position, whether she felt comfortable giving me her banking info.

Ultimately, I reluctantly realized that giving cash is the easiest thing and also what is most preferred by the recipient. I had hang ups about this at first, but now it doesn't really bother me. I buy a greeting card (birthday, thank you, or whatever), put the cash in the card, don't fill it out at all, and give her the card at the end of the night before she leaves. They seem to think it's kind of cute and they re-use the blank greeting card for whatever occasion. If Mom or Dad knew where their birthday card really came from. :)

Also, with cash, just be careful. I don't think they are doing stings on SA, because it would be a long winded process, since stuff usually drags out for multiple dates and several hours before any cash is transacted. During initial meets I never discuss cash for play. It's always an allowance for the woman I'm dating, because I'm a nice guy and would want to help my girlfriend in any way I could, whether it's emotionally, monetarily, or whatever she needs. I'm sure the stings just target Backpage, busy escorts, etc.

One last thing on screening women. Surprisingly, almost every women I've met with has given me their real phone number and not a burner phone number. I've plugged those numbers into internet search and Facebook search, and almost every time, I know their real names and life story before our first date. I like knowing this, because: 1. I know they aren't LE, 2. I know if they are married, have a boyfriend, or whatever, and 3. I can see what they tell me and if it checks out with what I know about them, to see if they are pretty honest. In almost every situation, by the end of the first date, the women have told me their real names instead of their SA name. When they've done so, it has matched up with their real name every single time, which was comforting. It gave me peace of mind that I can continue with this girl and feel some level of trust.

Wow, good insight, lots of comment.

I will add that in a way my CF is practically my sugar baby right now lol.

"watch out for a bunch of strippers to start hanging out at Ferrari dealerships"

More like charity events and wherever you might find yachts and private jets.

Larry: I'd say so. One of these days, I'd like to meet up with you, just to watch you make it rain. Sounds like an entertaining thing to watch.

Motor & RM: For sure. Then, the PL's will start showing up too, to scoop up the unsuccessful strippers that weren't able to land the yacht and Ferrari owners.

TG- the myth is I that it make it rain all the time. The reality is I only do it for the girls that are worth it to me (9+), and you don't see those kind of girls everyday.

What's the ratio of dates that are strictly dinner and a movie vs ending in the sack?

If you're expecting to get laid every time and are going on a date once a week, you're looking at a minimum of $400 a month on hotels alone. I am not taking anybody to Motel 6.

Funny how SBs advice other SBs to not settle for less than $2,000 per month because if the flood gates open, it will bring in all the average joes and drive down the allowances for everybody.

I wonder if the young (18-21) SBs are more likely to accept less than $2,000 per month since that is a lot of money to a young woman who is not a stripper. They still think more like a civie who usually only gets her meal paid for and the guy still expects to get laid at the end of the date. Strippers have a totally different mentality. They expect to be compensated for each hour they spend with you.

Professional gold diggers are more likely to be older since they have an established lifestyle they want to upkeep.

Your'e all mixed up, @Bavarian.

The price of sex is fixed by supply-and-demand forces -- not what one SB says to another.

Part of the allure of having one SB you can trust is that "dates" can occur at her place or your place, so no need for hotels.

Peak demand is probably for college girls who can write in complete sentences. They probably make the most money, regardless of whether it's a lot of money for them.

TG, I do some screening and have a 100% hit rate so far... sometimes on an image search, sometimes on a phone # search (I use one of the for-pay services that escorts use, that can often even find google voice and cell lines, if she was sloppy with them).

Bav, agree with RM, you could go the hotel route, but one of the advantages here is that in many cases, they are honest-to-goodness civilians, young women in school or struggling to make ends meet with their jobs, and while I'm still in condition orange at times, I'm more open to going to her place (or, in theory, having her at mine).

-->" Strippers have a totally different mentality. They expect to be compensated for each hour they spend with you."

Wow, this is the opposite of everything I've ever experienced with strippers. When it comes to OTC, the huge advantage of strippers over escorts (well, besides the fact that the stripper has not fucked and BBBJCIM'ed 4 other guys that day already) is that in IME 100% of cases, strippers charge one flat fee for the sex act, but will hang out for hours or overnights on top for free, whereas escorts charge for every hour they're with you. I'd be far less interested in OTC if it were pay-per-hour

Subra's right, otc'ing with a stripper is way more kicked back. Drive around and smoke a joint before hand, hang out and talk afterwards. I've never had an escort but I'm guessing their not interested in that.

My baby stripper has asked me to be her sugar daddy. I'm going to call her today and see about monthly visits. Being so infrequent, would that make me more of a sugar uncle?

It is possible to find a low key SB-SD arrangement without even really characterizing it as such. Got into a discussion with a cute young waitress at a pizza place I frequent. It was slow and she and other waitresses were talking about Sugar Daddies. This waitress commented she had no money to furnish her new dorm room. I jokingly said I could afford to be a Sugar Daddy for a day. The next thing I knew her tits were up against my shoulder and she whispered that if I was game she was game. I took her shopping, spend about $500. Went back to my place and boned her. She found my liquor cabinet, got drunk and ended up staying the night. I have had several hookups for free and took her shopping one more time. This was over about two years.

Subraman: "... what have the mechanics been for payment?"

I deposit funds in my SB's checking account.

Bav, I agree with Subra, RM, BH, and Goldmonger. After the initial meet and greet, once an arrangement is agreed upon, every single date ends up in the sack. Also, the hotel isn't necessary, but it's something that I like to do, especially at the beginning. All of these women have been open to going back to my place though and most have offered to go back to theirs as well. A lot of these women do not have the stripper mindset, so they are not looking to hustle and price gouge like the strippers and high end professional escorts do. A lot of the young ones aren't looking to get rich as you mention. However, a lot of the late 20's and early 30's women are competing with the younger women too, so it keeps their rates in check.

Last thing. For a lot of the younger women, sugaring has almost become trendy. Some talk to their friends about it and their friends sign up too. It's almost a way for them to be 'edgy' plus they like the money and stuff they can buy with it.

nice!

TG, that was my basic situation regarding a very young woman. That $500 shopping spree meant a lot more to her than the $500 meant to me.She knew no guy her age or close to it could or would help out. It took somebody her father's age that had available resources. Plus, I later found out I was the first guy she was with that did not come within 20-30 seconds! She now prefers men 10+ years older than she is.

Interesting and true goldmonger. Thanks for sharing. One of the women I was with recently (mid 20's, but had dated mostly younger guys), said something similar. I went down on her and she said "I usually don't like that, but you actually know what you are doing. Now I know what it's like to be with a man, instead of a boy."

^^^TG I don't know what you thought about her comment
"I usually don't like that, but you actually know what you are doing. Now I know what it's like to be with a man, instead of a boy" but my take is it sure sounds like "Stripper Shit"

I've had similar comments made by dancers in their early 20s discovering experienced cunninglinguists for the first time.

glad to say i have also recieved the same compliment a number of times. nothing like getting a compliment from a beautyful young lady. :)

25, could be, but I've had several women tell me this over the years, mostly civies. This woman was never a stripper and was new to sugaring, with a history of young 20'ish boyfriends, so it could have been the truth. Who knows. Either way, the sex that followed me dining at the Y, was pretty amazing.

VERY interesting read. Thank you all for your contributions.

w.r.t. young women liking the fact that older men can last longer; I'm sure that can be the case but IMO does not necessarily mean they prefer to fuck the older guy over the younger guy.

"... What's the ratio of dates that are strictly dinner and a movie vs ending in the sack ..."

"... Strippers have a totally different mentality. They expect to be compensated for each hour they spend with you ..."

That's the thing Bavarian - you are the one w/ the $$$ so you get to set/dictate the terms; not let her say "it's this" and you just accept it.

Your fave seems to be familiar w/ StripperWeb and seems to have you completely by the balls and you let her - you've been on TUSCL long-enough to know there are better ways to go about it beyond just handing your balls over to the dancer.

Are there a lot of hot bitches on SA? It's $50 a month right?

I've thinking of creating a profile and exploring it a little bit.

You just have to provide your email to sign up and be able to search the sugar babies. I searched for Latinas and found 7 I liked.

You have to pay $65 a month to communicate with them.

What if you just want to fuck them and can't be bothered with this pretend relationship/dinner/going out crap?

I hear you Papi. Nina reminds me of my CF. They were cast using the same mold.

Well, she's going to quit stripping soon so I will finally get my balls back.

There's an app for that too Dougster. You can find escorts on SA. You just have to search the profiles and you can get an idea which girls are SB's and which are escorts. Some of the escorts have contacted me first, introducing themselves as escorts. They weren't what I was looking for, but fuck away Dougster. Fuck away. Enjoy.

Dougster then you need this website that is promoted at the bottom of SA

whatsyourprice.com

I already know who favorite #3 is going to be.

I will be breaking my Latina streak though.

She's as beautiful as favorite #2, gives great dances, and is very sweet and accommodating.

She's a traveling dancer. I had seen her a couple of times before but never got dances until recently.

Also does any body know if it's worth the $70 a month to communicate on SA ?

On their sister sight WYP it's just $30

I know have a free account on both sites and have actually seen a few local strippers and escorts on these websites along with super hot young bitches.

On SA I keep getting views from bitches not in my state unless I favor a lot of bitches in my area then I get a lot of local views ?

The biggest question is is it safe and worth the investment into the site ?

I'm thinking of paying the fee on pay day

This has been a fun thread due to people sharing and it seams we including myself are about to experiment on these websites

For years I've used POF aka Plenty of Fish to fuck local sluts my age but usually not very hot with a few and I mean a few exceptions. This website is completely free and I've pondered seeing if I can't arrange some super situation on their with the younger girls.

Got me curious now about other dating sites and paying the subscription to find hot young girls to sugar

Anybody got a story if finding sugar babies on mire traditional dating sites ?

Any tips for the guys that is adventures enough like myself to go out in public and try to sugar a hot 18 year old working a shitty job at the Mall ?

I might actually enjoy the sister site WYP aka What's your Price .com because you can bid and they can accept or reject the offer then you can message over the details and it's much cheaper price offers range from $50-$200 then of course you can make higher offers if u got it

Does having a PS4 carry any clout?

Juice, I've slept with 4 women total through SA. 3 were through arrangements and 1 was just for buying her dinner a couple of times. 2 of the 4 were really hot. The other two were pretty, but not stripper hot. To me, it's worth the $70 fee. If you message a lot of women in that month, you can collect a lot of phone numbers and you'll have your own little black book. You may not even need to pay for a 2nd month on the site. Keep us posted!

I thought wyp was for strictly platonic, but I could be wrong.

Travel thank you so much for the feed back...and no it's not just platonic although it is on their as an option...on pay day I will pop the $70 on SA and $50 on WYP and I will see what will happen.

So Far on the free accounts on SA I get a lot of views but no message and I do believe it's because I look young and broke lol...seriously

On WYP I've made 10 offers for $100 and I've got 3 accepted offers from local sexy 18-20 year olds from some of my local college's it looks like

Kinda more excited about WYP mainly because it's my price range on being a broke sugar daddy lol

It does make since I mean I'm doing well off but I'm not able to sugar an older hot bitch but I can sugar broke 8-9-10 that come from poor families and going to college...I can afford flicking$100-$500 every month and $1,000 if I'm maxed out but more comfortable babying a 18-20 year old on a few hundo

By the time I'm 45 I can flick the grands

Mikeya lol...I don't confess to steal being a kid when talking business with a potential sex partner

I'm also wrong on the $30 membership on WYP it's buying credits. But it works out to steel be cheap for a daddy on a budget lol

Been there, done that. Did the SM/SB thing a few years back and it started out great but crashed and burned towards the end of our run. A lot of people think that having a SB sounds like a perfect scenario but it can turn into a trainwreck pretty easily.

If you would please share the juicy details

Speaking of sugaring, that MILF Britney Spears was looking AMAZING at the VMA's. I want her to be my sugar mommy!

Juice, you're welcome. The best women on SA get lots of messages, so they won't message you first. Usually it's the thirstier ones that message you first. Also, once you pay the $70, it will show you are a "premium member", which makes you more valuable in the women's eyes and will get you more attention.

For WYP, what are you getting for $100 dates? Just dinner or are they actually going to get physical with you for that price? Please report back with your experiences. Thanks.

Of course now that I'm finding SB's that I like, I just went on a date with a hot civie milf who I'm really attracted to and seems to dig me. This could throw a wrench into my sugar career. We'll see.

Travel I will report back once I get a good sample size in...also thank you again for sharing and giving good advice.

I enjoy the GFE and what I call the gray Area...my stripper ATF was like this and it's y I call her my ATf and it lasted 3-4 year's basically...I was feeding her $800 at the high and $400 on the low every month...I meet her at a local strip club

But like I said I crave the gray spot were you don't know weather its a hooker or a real girlfriend lol....

I'm hoping these sites helps out in finding these situations

Sounds good. Thanks Juice and good luck!

Bumper

Good tips guys. Thanks!

Oh, one last tip Juice and Bav. There are new women signing up for this site every day, so it doesn't hurt to log in once in a while and sort your search by "recently signed up" or whatever that option is called.

Also, with the new school year getting started, there will probably be a lot of college chicks registering for new accounts, once they get settled in at school and the bills start coming in. They probably don't have the time or desire to work a lot of hours and still be full-time students, so I think sugaring is what they consider to be a better option. Not all of them obviously, but a number of them.

I appreciate the tips from the guys who have been doing it longer!

One thing I did recently is change my status from Negotiable to Minimal, just to see how that would effect things. I initially set it as Negoatiable to cast a wider net, but I've had a few conversations with potential SBs who clearly wanted something in the $3000+ range. I figured switching to Minimal, which is where I want to be, would weed out those girls. As it turns out, perhaps predictably, I've gone from almost 100% responses to my introduction emails, to far lower. I'll stick with this for a while but then perhas switch it back to Negoatiable if I have to...

"What if you just want to fuck them and can't be bothered with this pretend relationship/dinner/going out crap? "

It helps the girl to open up, so that she can be better in bed. Sex is an emotional issue for her, even if there is money that doesn't change it.

Otherwise, maybe a brothel?

SJG

^^^SJG always be dropping nuggets on TUSCL

The man, the myth, the legend.