fuck both teams. lebron is no jordan and the warriors thrive off other teams misfortune and get awful lucky. not that they're not good, possibly even great, but they have had a lot things happen in their favor the last 2 years.
Golden State Warriors. I was rooting against them vs OKC because I was tired of them being compared to the 1996 Bulls. That is non-sense.
But I'm for anyone that plays LeBron. He seems like a nice enough guy but he makes dumb choices. I started disliking him when he got a Hummer in high school while he lived in the projects. And "The Decision" only cemented his stupidity.
Steph Curry is my dawg (he signed a jersey for me, really nice guy), so I'm rooting for the Warriors, but I fear Cleveland will win. Cleveland has a lot of favorable matchups.
Without boring you to death, here's a few things.
•Kyrie vs Curry is almost a toss up, of course you have to give Curry the edge, but Kyrie will score a lot of points. They're probably gonna put Thompson on Kyrie, which means Curry will have to guard JR Smith. Curry can't guard JR, it's a mismatch.
They'll put Shumpert or LeBron on Thompson, so Klay will have a tough time scoring.
LeBron will run wild on the offensive end.
Kevin Love is a key piece who will do some damage, although Draymond can neutralize him somewhat. Warriors also have to account for Channing Frye, he's a 3 pt sniper.
The Warriors have a lot of good players, but something people don't talk about is they only rely on two players (Steph and Klay) for the vast majority of their offense.
Technically everything was legit in regards to the Hummer. His mom got a loan. And it's true the LeBton was the only collateral she needed. But it's not a very good PR move. Why does a high school kid need a Hummer with 3 TV's. Just wait a little bit before he's out of school
"the decision" was possibly the most arrogant shit ive ever seen and that, combined with his fleeing to miami to play with his butt buddies, was what really made me dislike him. but, he did get a lot of respect from me last year the way he played with the team he had. but i still dont like him all that much.
My dad had a bunch of season tickets for all Cleveland sports through his company back in the day. This was in the mid 90s and Gund arena (Cleveland Cavs) was brand spanking new and my dad still couldn't give away the tickets. So you can guess who always used those tickets. Dan Marle, Danny Ferry, etc. yeah all scrubs but the seats were next to all the cheerleaders.
Ride or die Cleveland. That city hasn't won a championship in anything since the 50s. Longest dry spell of any city to have at least 3 professional sports teams.
GS is the new face of the NBA, play minimal defense and live and die by the 3. Cavs are the poster child for a dying NBA lineup - run the ball through a bunch of big fuckers underneath. The Cavs impressed me in the playoffs, and Toronto turns out to be better than I expected in the east Finals.
GS will probably best them but I think the Cavs have at least a chance.
Living near Cleveland I know first hand the heartbreak that Cleveland sports fans have suffered through the years. I am a Cavs fan and hope they win but I have doubts that they can do it. Something always happens to fuck it up for Cleveland teams AKA the curse!
Regarding Lebron, he's talented and he's done some good things for the area but I still dislike him because of the decision and the events leading up to it but I will still be cheering for him because I want the team to win. Cleveland needs it!
I like GS a lot - I think Curry and Thompson are insane shooters. I like Iguadala too. I think Green is a dick - but maybe he just does stupid shit?
I'm a Knicks fan (please don't hold that against me - I know I'll never kick the habit - and I know I have no power over it). I'm happy seeing the Cavs with Shump and JR doing well. Hated the Decision - but it's done. The major differences - are Love and Kyrie being health this time.
I hope it's a competitive series - and I hope GS wins.
Green is actually not a dick off court. A lot of players respect him (one of the most prominent being Kobe), and he does give back tremendously to his communities (both his home state of Michigan and the bay area now), he's involved in many charities, and donated to MSU sports more than any former Sparty athlete, including Magic. On the court he may be intense and a dick at times, but I think it adds to the fun when you have someone on your team who gets under other people's skin --- fans and players.
Reminds me of the Wallaces (especially Rasheed), and definitely Bill Laimbeer of the late 80s/early 90s Pistons. I wasn't born yet during the Bad Boys championships of 89-90, but I've seen plenty of their games. It would have been fun to be a fan during that period. Instead I was a kid when Bill Laimbeer started coaching the Detroit WNBA team. Lol. The opposing fans still hated him. I loved it because he was an excellent coach.
Green is a good player, but my goodness he might be the most overrated player in the league. He averages 14 pts and 7 assists, and he got all NBA second team, Klay got third team. Are they gonna try to say Draymond is better than Klay lol. What a joke. Draymond is a good solid role player like Iguodala, nothing more, nothing less.
Actually jester, if anything I have a personal bias to like him because he played for MSU, where my mom earned her bachelor's... I lived in Lansing and East Lansing for several years. Plus Draymond is actually from Michigan.
And Larryfisherman, in the 14 pts and 7.4 assists he averaged, you failed to include the 9.5 rebounds per game...why is that? His average is nearly a double-double. When you're doing that on one of the best teams in NBA history, you're great. Also interesting how you didn't include any of his defensive stats. Did you know he finished 2nd in defensive player of the year award? And the only other player to earn more triple doubles than him this year was Russell Westbrook, a league superstar.
Idk how much of the Warriors you watched this season, but I watched it all and Draymond was out-playing Klay during the first half of the season, so it makes perfect sense that he was also an all-star.
I watched all the times they were on national TV this year, which was a lot.
Draymond is a power forward, so the expectation is for him to get 10 rebounds, so no extra points there. Draymond is a really good defender, but I think Klay is the defensive MVP of the team. As you see in the last series he completely took Westbrook out of his game.
Draymond performed better than Klay?? Huh?. Are you aware that Klay averaged over 22 pts a game this year? Are you aware they don't run any plays for Draymond? Are you aware Draymond scores all his points on open lanes or open shots when they double team Klay and/or Steph?
Ninabambina - I didn't know Green was such s good guy off court - that's cool.
I knew Kobe was a supporter of Green.
I like your comparisons - to the Wallaces and to Laimbeer too. The Pistons were bad ass back in the Laimbeer days - and they made the playoffs very exciting. They played hard - and they got inside the other teams heads too.
You watched all the nationally televised games such as TNT, ABC, ESPN. I watched all that plus NBA TV (which airs their games even when they're not scheduled to) and the NBA sports channel that only broadcasts during live games. I saw almost every single game.
Draymond better performer than Klay? Sometimes, yes. Also, while Klay averaged more points, he averaged FAR less rebounds and assists (Klay with 3.8 rebounds and 2.1 assists per game compared to Draymond's 9.5 and 7.4!) If you watched the early part of the series you'd see that Klay Thompson was clearly struggling and Draymond had improves immensely. He was outshining Klay for the first few months of the season and there were even some commentators who went as far as to say he's the team's other MVP after Steph (I don't remember their names so I can't technically confirm that on the record;). Klay's game only started to improve a little while his break up with his gf. Then in the second half of the season he's back to himself. In case anyone doesn't know, last year Klay set an NBA record for 37 points in a quarter.
You are underestimating the importance of Draymond. A reason they're able to run so many plays off him is because he's so versatile and has a high basketball IQ. When you are playing on the same team as "lethal" scorers like Klay and Steph, of course you are going to have plays ran off their double and triple teams. They're the best shooting back court in league history, no contest. They're shooting legends.
Yeah Cashman1234, it would've been awesome to be in the arena for some of those historic match-ups... And to see Laimbeer elbow a few people. I remember watching footage and seeing away games where he would mock-bow the fans that were booing him and whatnot. Classic bad boys.
OK Larry fisherman I meant watch the early part of the season*, not series. Klay was not himself until later in the season. He started to get more Klay-like after his breakup with his ex, then after the all-star break, I believe.
I did watch the early part of the season, it wasn't that Klay was struggling, it was just that Steph was so remarkable. Steph averaged 33 pts a game through the first quarter of the season. As the season carried on, they gave Klay the ball more, and he delivered.
Where was your MVP in the OKC series? He was busy getting all these flagrant fouls getting outplayed by Steven freaking Adams, it seemed to me Green was more of a liability than actually helping. Meanwhile Klay averaged nearly 30 points a game in the OKC series while shutting down Westbrook on the defensive end.
A lot of people feel either Klay or Kawhi is the best two way player in the game.
Again Green is a good player, not taking anything away from him, but he is a SYSTEM player. You know that he wouldn't start for a lot of teams in the league looking for offense.
It's laughable to think Draymond is better than Klay. It's even more laughable that Draymond made second team all NBA.
I never said Draymond is a better player than Klay. Please don't fall into the category of guys here who've put words in my mouth because I want to like you, kid.
Draymond also creates the system. He often creates the offense (more versatility). You don't average 7.4 apg without creating offense, even with the slash bros. Obviously he had a bad series vs okc, they've all taken turns struggling. That's why the Warriors are so dangerous. They had their big three (steph, klay, dray) and the rest can also destroy you. They can hit teams from so many players.
Snip from article:
"Monday night against the Hornets, Green posted his third straight triple-double, becoming the 15th NBA player in history to achieve such streak. Last month, Green became the third player in league history to have a 5×5 game." [I assume you know what a 5x5 game is]
"Only five players in NBA history have averaged nine-or-more rebounds and seven-or-more assists per game over the course of a season: Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Grant Hill, and Magic Johnson. If Green can continue to do what he’s done through the season’s first 34 games, he’ll be the sixth." [He accomplished this]
Well you said Draymond is a better performer than Klay sometimes. I took that to mean you view Draymond at the very least an equal to Klay. 7 assists is nice, but did you forget he's passing it to the two greatest shooters in NBA history????
You keep bringing up his assists and rebounds, but what's your response to the fact they don't run any plays for him, and all his shots being open looks????? Also saying he played bad in the OKC series is being nice to him.
Cmon Nina, you're gonna be a lawyer, I need some better arguments.
It seems that the majority want the Warriors to win, many because of their dislike of Lebron. I get it.
Something that many of you may not know. curry was born in Akron same as Lebron. Curry's dad Dell played a year or two for the Cavs and I think that's when Curry was born
I hate Lebron, but nowhere near as much as I hate Golden State fans, who didn't exist 3 years ago. The idea Golden State changed the game of basketball is idiotic. I will root for Cleveland, but hope a terrorist attack ends the NBA.
Ninabambina - I agree with you on how awesome it would have been to see Laimbeer and the Pistons during that bad boy era. They made for some great games.
OT - I hate to say it - but I saw Laimbeer play in college - so I'm pretty old! I went to High School with Kelly Tripucka - I was a few years behind him - and Notre Dame had a great team back then.
Larryfisherman, this is going to turn into beating a dead horse. I've given you numerous stats showing Green passing milestones that only a handful of people (or less) in NBA history have reached.
As far as your repeated assertion (the last leg you have to stand on, really) that they don't run plays for him, you're not going to be the first option when you have shooting stars like Steph and Klay. It's no secret Steph is the league's MVP, and Klay is the other splash bro. The two of them alone almost make the NBA unfair. But for Draymond to be able to fit in perfectly with the offense, make offensive plays, and often BEGIN our offense, is something that Steph and Klay should be thankful for because those three players feed off each other. You can't deny Draymond's passing abilities. He can score, obviously, but he doesn't ~need~ to score 20+ ppg because we already have two stars who do. If he were on another team, that would be necessary. He's on the team with the best record in league history along with two of the best shooters in league history. I also don't understand how a player is prohibited from being a key player just because "they don't run plays for him" when they have the best record in NBA history. His defensive stats alone are worth a second look, he's one of the best defenders in the entire league. He can guard pretty much any position. Should we overlook all of that in determining his value?
Again, I've given you his stats. You choose to overlook them or make excuses. If that's all that's going to happen, we should end this debate or at least table it for now.
I said Draymond out performs Klay *sometimes* and then I explained myself. It doesn't mean I'm proclaiming that Draymond is better, I love Klay. Klay has out performed Steph before, too, but we all know Steph is the MVP.
Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree, everything you just mentioned I've already addressed.
I didn't Green wasn't a key player, I didn't say Green wasn't a great defender, I didn't Green wasn't a good passer. I said Green is overrated.
The people you mention with Green as far as making "history" (Bird, Hill, etc) averaged a lot more than 14 pts a game.
14 points, 9 Rebs, and 7 assists does not warrant an All NBA second team selection in my opinion. Think about that, that means the second best power forward in the league.
I get that he's on a all time great team, but their success has a lot more to do with having the greatest two shooters in NBA history on the SAME TEAM in my opinion. Simple.
14 pts, 9.5 reb, 7.4 ast are very good stats, especially on a team that won 73 games. You laugh at him being named all NBA second team, yet what you fail to realize is that he was an easy lock for all NBA and actually almost made the first team! He was bumped down to 2nd team because he plays both forward and center for gsw, and got more votes as a forward. So DeAndre Jordan was named to the first team instead. Again, he finished 2nd in triple doubles and defensive player of the year voting. It seems all you care about is who scores the most points.
Lol, you think my only leg is they don't run plays for him??
Let me make clear my points
•He only averages 14 points a game, yet made 2nd team all NBA
•They don't run any plays for him
•Yes he averages 7 assists, but he's passing to the two greatest shooters in NBA history
•All the points he gets are off open looks
•When it mattered the most, you saw how "valuable" he was (OKC Series). He can't handle the big guys.
All of these points support my main point that Draymond Green is the most overrated player in the league.
With all your points, I had a good comeback every time, find me a weak point I made.
To my points.
•Draymond has a terrible series. You say, well everyone has bad series. Ok.
•They don't run any plays for Draymond. You say, well they have Steph and Klay, why would they run plays for Draymond? That's fine, I agree, but you're making my point, and you're agreeing with me.
•All the points he gets are off open looks. You say well that's gonna happen playing with Steph and Klay. Once again, that's fine, but you're making my point.
Steph and Klay are the main reason GSW is this good!
As you can see, with my points, you're not really disagreeing with any of them.
Again, all you are talking about is who is scoring points and using Draymond's 14ppg to justify that that must somehow make him overrated. You completely ignore his 9.5 rebounds per game and only attribute his 7.4 assists to the help he has, when HE is the only helping them create shots.
Klay Thompson, 22 points per game, 3.8 reb, 2.1 ast; Draymond, 14 points per game, 9.5 reb, 7.4 ast. Both seem pretty valuable to me!
Draymond led his team in both rebounds and assists on the team with the best season in NBA history. If it's so easy to average 7.4 assists with great shooters, why is Harrison Barnes doing it? Or Andrew Bogut? They're both starters, too, but don't have assist stats even close to Draymond (hint, the answer includes Draymond's versatility, passing abilities, and bball IQ).
Draymond is probably the most versatile player on the league. He can shoot 3s, play forward AND center, run the offense, and guard point guards.
You say "all the points he gets are off open looks," yet the only other Warrior to attempt more free throws than him this season is Steph. Draymond had more free throw attempts than Klay. How is he getting to the line so much if he only scores from open looks? Lol
If you look at efficiency ratings, you'll see Steph Curry leads the league at #1. Draymond Green isn't far behind at 7th in the league, and Klay Thompson is 35th. Yup, Draymond's efficiency ranking is much higher than Klay's and not too far away from Steph's!
Nina, Draymond is the primary ball handler besides Steph, the ball is in his hands a lot, that's not the same for Barnes or Bogut, cmon now!
Efficiency ratings don't mean squat, guess what Enes Kanter is ranked top 10 in efficiency lol.
Steph creates his own shot 90% of the time (10% of the time he runs off screens) and Klay runs off screens. I don't see how that leads you to say Draymond helps create their shots. He has the ball, and he passes to them. Simple.
When Draymond is open, sometimes instead of shooting the three, he will go to the hole and get fouled. He is not creating shots on his own.
Once again I've already answered the 9.5 Rebs thing. He is a power forward, their job is to get 10 Rebs. I'm not giving him any extra points for that.
I've explained all your points with good rebuttals.
Scoring is not everything, but 9 rebs and 7 assists is supposed to blow my socks off? Now if he averaged 14 pts, 13 Rebs, and 7 or 8 assists, that would be impressive.
"Nina, Draymond is the primary ball handler besides Steph, the ball is in his hands a lot, that's not the same for Barnes or Bogut, cmon now!"
Well why is the ball in his hands a lot and not Harry B's or Bogut's? Why is that?
Did you know Draymond bested Lebron this year in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks? Probably not, because all you care about is how many points a player scores while their overall effectiveness and defense means nothing to you.
13 triple doubles this year. First team all-nba defensive, second team all-nba. No big deal, right? No big accomplishments there. I guess all those voters were wrong and NBA personnel have less knowledge than you about Draymond?
I understand that no matter what stat you see, you will still hate on Draymond no matter what. He can be the best all around player in the league, but to you he's still overrated. You're a hater and that's fine, I'm going to stop arguing with you because you disregard every factual piece of information that proves Draymond is a special player. Haters will usually always be haters, I'm gonna stop wasting my time on you and let Draymond's game tonight speak for itself.
"but hope a terrorist attack ends the NBA." Skibum609
OK, As long as the same attack takes out every Subaru and every possible ski option within 400 miles of Mario's, in what was once our great country! Ski: Don't mess with my NBA! Rockie (Another Cranky Old Bastard)
Draymond Green is the premier "glue guy" in the NBA. There are probably 40 better individual players in the league, but there might not be 12 more valuable contributors to a winning team in the NBA than Draymond. "Mouth Almighty" can play with anyone and figure out how to make it work. I believe it will be GS repeating, but if Cleveland can adjust within the series to take it - Kudos to Cleveland
I don't think Cleveland has much of a chance - GSW won by 15 without Klay or Steph scoring anywhere near their usual. I think Steph had 11 pts and Klay had 9. This game proved how deep the team is and how dangerous as well. If the Warriors beat Cleveland when both the splash players were off, imagine when they're on.
I thought the 1st-half was pretty-boring, 1st-half felt like a slow regular-season game (def didn't have the energy & competition-level the OKC series had).
Cleveland just doesn't seem to be at the same-level & overall their defense is pretty-weak & lacking & the GS coaching staff is superior - I think Chumper & Delonova can give Curry issues b/c they play hounding defense - Cleveland just seems to have too much drama going-on & K-Love is often inconsistent & Kyrie's defense is often atrocious - & LeBron's jumper has always been inconsistent - I'd say GS in 6 b/c the Cavs will be desperate & turn it on in some games.
Cleveland, but they are obviously not going to win. I was really hoping that OKC had finished the job in the West Finals and for those guys Durant and Westbrook to win it all.
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But I'm for anyone that plays LeBron. He seems like a nice enough guy but he makes dumb choices. I started disliking him when he got a Hummer in high school while he lived in the projects. And "The Decision" only cemented his stupidity.
Without boring you to death, here's a few things.
•Kyrie vs Curry is almost a toss up, of course you have to give Curry the edge, but Kyrie will score a lot of points. They're probably gonna put Thompson on Kyrie, which means Curry will have to guard JR Smith. Curry can't guard JR, it's a mismatch.
They'll put Shumpert or LeBron on Thompson, so Klay will have a tough time scoring.
LeBron will run wild on the offensive end.
Kevin Love is a key piece who will do some damage, although Draymond can neutralize him somewhat. Warriors also have to account for Channing Frye, he's a 3 pt sniper.
The Warriors have a lot of good players, but something people don't talk about is they only rely on two players (Steph and Klay) for the vast majority of their offense.
That is true. Can't argue with that. :)
I didn't care that Lebron went to Miami. There's no real loyalty by teams so why should we expect it from players?
BUT, I thought it was bullshit that he went on TV to announce it.
Ride or die Cleveland. That city hasn't won a championship in anything since the 50s. Longest dry spell of any city to have at least 3 professional sports teams.
GS is the new face of the NBA, play minimal defense and live and die by the 3. Cavs are the poster child for a dying NBA lineup - run the ball through a bunch of big fuckers underneath. The Cavs impressed me in the playoffs, and Toronto turns out to be better than I expected in the east Finals.
GS will probably best them but I think the Cavs have at least a chance.
Regarding Lebron, he's talented and he's done some good things for the area but I still dislike him because of the decision and the events leading up to it but I will still be cheering for him because I want the team to win. Cleveland needs it!
Ok, I'll have to wait until next season.
I'm a Knicks fan (please don't hold that against me - I know I'll never kick the habit - and I know I have no power over it). I'm happy seeing the Cavs with Shump and JR doing well. Hated the Decision - but it's done. The major differences - are Love and Kyrie being health this time.
I hope it's a competitive series - and I hope GS wins.
Reminds me of the Wallaces (especially Rasheed), and definitely Bill Laimbeer of the late 80s/early 90s Pistons. I wasn't born yet during the Bad Boys championships of 89-90, but I've seen plenty of their games. It would have been fun to be a fan during that period. Instead I was a kid when Bill Laimbeer started coaching the Detroit WNBA team. Lol. The opposing fans still hated him. I loved it because he was an excellent coach.
He can't shut up arguing to the refs which is just idiocy. The kick to Adams was a cheap shot of about the worst kind. Dick.
Idk how much of the Warriors you watched this season, but I watched it all and Draymond was out-playing Klay during the first half of the season, so it makes perfect sense that he was also an all-star.
Draymond is a power forward, so the expectation is for him to get 10 rebounds, so no extra points there. Draymond is a really good defender, but I think Klay is the defensive MVP of the team. As you see in the last series he completely took Westbrook out of his game.
Draymond performed better than Klay?? Huh?. Are you aware that Klay averaged over 22 pts a game this year? Are you aware they don't run any plays for Draymond? Are you aware Draymond scores all his points on open lanes or open shots when they double team Klay and/or Steph?
I knew Kobe was a supporter of Green.
I like your comparisons - to the Wallaces and to Laimbeer too. The Pistons were bad ass back in the Laimbeer days - and they made the playoffs very exciting. They played hard - and they got inside the other teams heads too.
Draymond better performer than Klay? Sometimes, yes. Also, while Klay averaged more points, he averaged FAR less rebounds and assists (Klay with 3.8 rebounds and 2.1 assists per game compared to Draymond's 9.5 and 7.4!) If you watched the early part of the series you'd see that Klay Thompson was clearly struggling and Draymond had improves immensely. He was outshining Klay for the first few months of the season and there were even some commentators who went as far as to say he's the team's other MVP after Steph (I don't remember their names so I can't technically confirm that on the record;). Klay's game only started to improve a little while his break up with his gf. Then in the second half of the season he's back to himself. In case anyone doesn't know, last year Klay set an NBA record for 37 points in a quarter.
You are underestimating the importance of Draymond. A reason they're able to run so many plays off him is because he's so versatile and has a high basketball IQ. When you are playing on the same team as "lethal" scorers like Klay and Steph, of course you are going to have plays ran off their double and triple teams. They're the best shooting back court in league history, no contest. They're shooting legends.
Where was your MVP in the OKC series? He was busy getting all these flagrant fouls getting outplayed by Steven freaking Adams, it seemed to me Green was more of a liability than actually helping. Meanwhile Klay averaged nearly 30 points a game in the OKC series while shutting down Westbrook on the defensive end.
A lot of people feel either Klay or Kawhi is the best two way player in the game.
Again Green is a good player, not taking anything away from him, but he is a SYSTEM player. You know that he wouldn't start for a lot of teams in the league looking for offense.
It's laughable to think Draymond is better than Klay. It's even more laughable that Draymond made second team all NBA.
Am I in the right place? Penguins up 2 - 0.
Draymond also creates the system. He often creates the offense (more versatility). You don't average 7.4 apg without creating offense, even with the slash bros. Obviously he had a bad series vs okc, they've all taken turns struggling. That's why the Warriors are so dangerous. They had their big three (steph, klay, dray) and the rest can also destroy you. They can hit teams from so many players.
Here is an article explaining how valuable Draymond is. http://www.knbr.com/2016/01/04/draymond-…
Snip from article:
"Monday night against the Hornets, Green posted his third straight triple-double, becoming the 15th NBA player in history to achieve such streak. Last month, Green became the third player in league history to have a 5×5 game." [I assume you know what a 5x5 game is]
"Only five players in NBA history have averaged nine-or-more rebounds and seven-or-more assists per game over the course of a season: Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Grant Hill, and Magic Johnson. If Green can continue to do what he’s done through the season’s first 34 games, he’ll be the sixth." [He accomplished this]
You keep bringing up his assists and rebounds, but what's your response to the fact they don't run any plays for him, and all his shots being open looks????? Also saying he played bad in the OKC series is being nice to him.
Cmon Nina, you're gonna be a lawyer, I need some better arguments.
BTW I ain't a kid lol.
Something that many of you may not know. curry was born in Akron same as Lebron. Curry's dad Dell played a year or two for the Cavs and I think that's when Curry was born
OT - I hate to say it - but I saw Laimbeer play in college - so I'm pretty old! I went to High School with Kelly Tripucka - I was a few years behind him - and Notre Dame had a great team back then.
As far as your repeated assertion (the last leg you have to stand on, really) that they don't run plays for him, you're not going to be the first option when you have shooting stars like Steph and Klay. It's no secret Steph is the league's MVP, and Klay is the other splash bro. The two of them alone almost make the NBA unfair. But for Draymond to be able to fit in perfectly with the offense, make offensive plays, and often BEGIN our offense, is something that Steph and Klay should be thankful for because those three players feed off each other. You can't deny Draymond's passing abilities. He can score, obviously, but he doesn't ~need~ to score 20+ ppg because we already have two stars who do. If he were on another team, that would be necessary. He's on the team with the best record in league history along with two of the best shooters in league history. I also don't understand how a player is prohibited from being a key player just because "they don't run plays for him" when they have the best record in NBA history. His defensive stats alone are worth a second look, he's one of the best defenders in the entire league. He can guard pretty much any position. Should we overlook all of that in determining his value?
Again, I've given you his stats. You choose to overlook them or make excuses. If that's all that's going to happen, we should end this debate or at least table it for now.
I said Draymond out performs Klay *sometimes* and then I explained myself. It doesn't mean I'm proclaiming that Draymond is better, I love Klay. Klay has out performed Steph before, too, but we all know Steph is the MVP.
I didn't Green wasn't a key player, I didn't say Green wasn't a great defender, I didn't Green wasn't a good passer. I said Green is overrated.
The people you mention with Green as far as making "history" (Bird, Hill, etc) averaged a lot more than 14 pts a game.
14 points, 9 Rebs, and 7 assists does not warrant an All NBA second team selection in my opinion. Think about that, that means the second best power forward in the league.
I get that he's on a all time great team, but their success has a lot more to do with having the greatest two shooters in NBA history on the SAME TEAM in my opinion. Simple.
I still love ya tho!
Let me make clear my points
•He only averages 14 points a game, yet made 2nd team all NBA
•They don't run any plays for him
•Yes he averages 7 assists, but he's passing to the two greatest shooters in NBA history
•All the points he gets are off open looks
•When it mattered the most, you saw how "valuable" he was (OKC Series). He can't handle the big guys.
All of these points support my main point that Draymond Green is the most overrated player in the league.
With all your points, I had a good comeback every time, find me a weak point I made.
To my points.
•Draymond has a terrible series. You say, well everyone has bad series. Ok.
•They don't run any plays for Draymond. You say, well they have Steph and Klay, why would they run plays for Draymond? That's fine, I agree, but you're making my point, and you're agreeing with me.
•All the points he gets are off open looks. You say well that's gonna happen playing with Steph and Klay. Once again, that's fine, but you're making my point.
Steph and Klay are the main reason GSW is this good!
As you can see, with my points, you're not really disagreeing with any of them.
Klay Thompson, 22 points per game, 3.8 reb, 2.1 ast; Draymond, 14 points per game, 9.5 reb, 7.4 ast. Both seem pretty valuable to me!
Draymond led his team in both rebounds and assists on the team with the best season in NBA history. If it's so easy to average 7.4 assists with great shooters, why is Harrison Barnes doing it? Or Andrew Bogut? They're both starters, too, but don't have assist stats even close to Draymond (hint, the answer includes Draymond's versatility, passing abilities, and bball IQ).
Draymond is probably the most versatile player on the league. He can shoot 3s, play forward AND center, run the offense, and guard point guards.
You say "all the points he gets are off open looks," yet the only other Warrior to attempt more free throws than him this season is Steph. Draymond had more free throw attempts than Klay. How is he getting to the line so much if he only scores from open looks? Lol
If you look at efficiency ratings, you'll see Steph Curry leads the league at #1. Draymond Green isn't far behind at 7th in the league, and Klay Thompson is 35th. Yup, Draymond's efficiency ranking is much higher than Klay's and not too far away from Steph's!
It's not only about who has more ppg.
Efficiency ratings don't mean squat, guess what Enes Kanter is ranked top 10 in efficiency lol.
Steph creates his own shot 90% of the time (10% of the time he runs off screens) and Klay runs off screens. I don't see how that leads you to say Draymond helps create their shots. He has the ball, and he passes to them. Simple.
When Draymond is open, sometimes instead of shooting the three, he will go to the hole and get fouled. He is not creating shots on his own.
Once again I've already answered the 9.5 Rebs thing. He is a power forward, their job is to get 10 Rebs. I'm not giving him any extra points for that.
I've explained all your points with good rebuttals.
Scoring is not everything, but 9 rebs and 7 assists is supposed to blow my socks off? Now if he averaged 14 pts, 13 Rebs, and 7 or 8 assists, that would be impressive.
I know my basketball.
Anything else?
Well why is the ball in his hands a lot and not Harry B's or Bogut's? Why is that?
Did you know Draymond bested Lebron this year in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks? Probably not, because all you care about is how many points a player scores while their overall effectiveness and defense means nothing to you.
13 triple doubles this year. First team all-nba defensive, second team all-nba. No big deal, right? No big accomplishments there. I guess all those voters were wrong and NBA personnel have less knowledge than you about Draymond?
I understand that no matter what stat you see, you will still hate on Draymond no matter what. He can be the best all around player in the league, but to you he's still overrated. You're a hater and that's fine, I'm going to stop arguing with you because you disregard every factual piece of information that proves Draymond is a special player. Haters will usually always be haters, I'm gonna stop wasting my time on you and let Draymond's game tonight speak for itself.
I'm out!
OK, As long as the same attack takes out every Subaru and every possible ski option within 400 miles of Mario's, in what was once our great country! Ski: Don't mess with my NBA! Rockie (Another Cranky Old Bastard)
Draymond Green is the premier "glue guy" in the NBA. There are probably 40 better individual players in the league, but there might not be 12 more valuable contributors to a winning team in the NBA than Draymond. "Mouth Almighty" can play with anyone and figure out how to make it work. I believe it will be GS repeating, but if Cleveland can adjust within the series to take it - Kudos to Cleveland
Cleveland just doesn't seem to be at the same-level & overall their defense is pretty-weak & lacking & the GS coaching staff is superior - I think Chumper & Delonova can give Curry issues b/c they play hounding defense - Cleveland just seems to have too much drama going-on & K-Love is often inconsistent & Kyrie's defense is often atrocious - & LeBron's jumper has always been inconsistent - I'd say GS in 6 b/c the Cavs will be desperate & turn it on in some games.