OT: New Racial Dynamics in Post-Racial America
GACA
Un-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
I was enjoying reading through some of the otherwise racially charged threads. One of the few things I notice...
1) Old White Guys rarely comment, except for Clubber who breaks it down simply to "get over it - sticks and stones"
2) White people from larger metro areas use traditionally inside Black language (Oreo, Uncle Tom, House Negro) in its proper context, and to call out black who say they don't mind racism
3) A lot of Blacks on this Board are "Oreos", (NickiFree -- straight up Uncle). Makes me wonder how much racism is intertwined with Economic status.
4) Whites are falling into two categories. Wishful Thinking and Confederate Thinking . There are some scummy ass niggas out there but Wishful Thinkers seem to feel it's still history affecting this. Confederate thinkers on the other hand support cops no matter what and are always seemingly enjoying this racial divide as if integration is some type of failed experiment. I still think nobody is color blind just yet.
5) Growing up in the 90's whites would not have the nerve to even say "black guy", now days they will unabashedly throw their two cents in (positively or negatively ) the black experience --like now days white being PC about black issues is out the door.
Just wondering out loud if these are signs that racism itself is truly coming to an end in the US?
1) Old White Guys rarely comment, except for Clubber who breaks it down simply to "get over it - sticks and stones"
2) White people from larger metro areas use traditionally inside Black language (Oreo, Uncle Tom, House Negro) in its proper context, and to call out black who say they don't mind racism
3) A lot of Blacks on this Board are "Oreos", (NickiFree -- straight up Uncle). Makes me wonder how much racism is intertwined with Economic status.
4) Whites are falling into two categories. Wishful Thinking and Confederate Thinking . There are some scummy ass niggas out there but Wishful Thinkers seem to feel it's still history affecting this. Confederate thinkers on the other hand support cops no matter what and are always seemingly enjoying this racial divide as if integration is some type of failed experiment. I still think nobody is color blind just yet.
5) Growing up in the 90's whites would not have the nerve to even say "black guy", now days they will unabashedly throw their two cents in (positively or negatively ) the black experience --like now days white being PC about black issues is out the door.
Just wondering out loud if these are signs that racism itself is truly coming to an end in the US?
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26 comments
Times change and anything's possible.
An outstanding book:
http://www.amazon.com/Miners-Canary-Enli…
And then David Blight, why is the Civil War so important?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXp1bHd…
And then his book:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Oracle-Ci…
And then of course Eyes on the Prize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFGgoE-u…
And then recently I have read most of:
http://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Freedom-…
This deals much with resistance to the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act, passed in conjunction with the Admission of both California and Texas.
And this is what got me interested in the Uncle Tom epithet and what it means. Remember that Harriet Beecher Stowe saw him as an exemplar of Christian virtue. Her novel was serialized in 1851, and then published between two covers in 1852. The Uncle Tom character was seen as extremely offensive and within one year, "Uncle Tom" was being used in a negative way.
This can be read in:
Negro protest pamphlets / selected and edited by Dorothy Porter
Imprint New York : Arno Press and : The New York Times, 1969
Our rights as men: an address delivered in Boston before the Legislative Committee on the Militia, February 24, 1853 / by William J. Watkins
At issue was whether black men could serve in the Massachusetts Militia.
"Your laws are founded in caste, conceived in caste, born in caste. Caste is the God whom this great nation delights to honor. Caste is in your singing, your preaching, your praying; your beau-ideal of Heaven is a place of unfading joy, and resplendent magnificence, where you shall play for ever upon your golden harps, and the colored people, if they, like Uncle Tom, submit to your indignities with Christian meekness and becoming resignation, shall be permitted, from the Negro pew, to peep into the glory of your third heaven to all eternity!"
One of the things which has shocked me most about TUSCL is the blatant racism found in many old white guy posts.
SJG
you hypocritical fucking troll. you have no idea who is and who is not an old white guy not to mention that you are one of the top racists on this board. your posts are consistently riddled with your deeply ingrained racism
Trust me, I heard plenty of racially charged "humor" at blue collar jobs I had in high school where everyone was white who worked there. The most appalling was probably one of my bosses who would act like he was the best friend of black guys who came in to buy things and then turned around and made N-bomb jokes.
Of course, I also am old enough to remember Dumb Polock jokes. Most of that kind of humor is below my personal tastes simply because it's just boring, trading mostly on "Group X is so stupid..."
I do think we're moving towards a post-racial America. Blatant racism isn't accepted in most social settings, even those where everyone is white (the racism of non-whites with regards to other ethnic groups is a whole different ballgame). Things are better than they were 20 years ago, and far better than they were 50 years ago. Doesn't mean things are *good* mind you, but they're better.
Not so long ago, rich blacks couldn't buy their way into the best neighborhoods or schools. These days we have Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, and yes, Barack Obama. There is tokenism, and tokenism does have it's downsides, but it's way better than complete exclusion. I strongly believe Kanye was wrong when he claimed "George Bush doesn't care about Black People". George Bush didn't care about POOR Black people. I also don't think he gave two shits about poor white people either.
Blacks in the US do have an economic historical legacy which we're still working our way through. Blacks are far more likely to live in poverty than whites, and poverty has many root causes. We're *close* to a level economic playing field, finally, although there have been some brilliant studies that show that two equivalent resumes, one with a traditionally white name and another with a traditionally black will result in more interviews for the made up white guy. But we still have generations who grew up without anywhere close to equality of opportunity.
I feel like we're moving in the right direction, and substantial systematic racism will likely be a thing of the past in my lifetime. There will always be Neo Nazis, but there will always be all kinds of fringe fanatics too. Economic inequalities will take generations to sort themselves out.
Did I manage to write more than SJG?
(1) I'm an "old white guy" from a small Midwestern city who has known such terms as Oreo and Uncle Tom, supposedly part of "inside black language", for most of my life. They're not that "inside" if I know them.
(2) I must come to nickifree's defense. I find it inflammatory to label a proud black man an Uncle Tom just because he dislikes the ghetto culture that has overtaken so many strip clubs. You can oppose thugs and still not be an Uncle Tom. Grumpy, perhaps; Tom, no.
(3) Of course racism is still a problem in America, but it's immeasurably less of a problem than it was in my youth 50 years ago. People who think racism is as bad as ever are looking for trouble or feeling like victims.
(4) I don't detect racism in SJG's posts so much as a certain relentlessly leftwing idiocy (but I repeat myself).
(5) In general, the only way I can tell who is black or white or whatever on this board is when the writer identifies his racial background, as ranukam (for example) has done. Hell, I didn't know nickifree was black until he revealed it. This is as it should be.
That'll do for now.
That being said, I agree that America has made a lot of progress, and we are mature enough to address racism in a rational way. The big issue today for me is defining the modern definition of 'racism'. It's not as cut and dry as it was in the 50's. Do we admit black students into colleges with lower qualifications in the name of diversity or is that racist? Why do Asians have to score higher than whites to get into the top colleges? Is it racist to not want an all Asian student body?
I don't have the answers...but I think a lot of good can be done by asking the right questions.
Dog Whistle Politics
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/14/do…
SJG
You need to keep current on your stats :)
In the May 2015 issue of "The Journal of Sports Economics" a University of Illinois professor published results that dispute the earlier work. A much broader data set was used (8 million pitches in the new study compared to just 2 million).
In the new study there was no evidence of racial discrimination. If anything, the results trended in the direction of "reverse discrimination".
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/4/mic…
SJG
Stones, 1989, early Lisa Fischer performance
https://youtu.be/IxKd-45zUww?t=42m39s
Well I can't say that for sure, I can say for sure some of my neighbors are concerned the neighborhood could have more kids playing in the street and more people driving fast down the street and or more people visiting and or making the neighborhood look trashy in their words. There are lots of retired people in my neighborhood so I don't know if it's old versus young they don't like or racial. probably both. They want a quiet neighborhood with no kids in the street and no noise. I agree with that. I prefer quiet people. Now if no one complained and it was legal, I'd shoot every last noisy bird in the neighborhood. They chirp at all hours.