Would you feel betrayed if your ATF lied to you?

To get back to the original question, it would depend on why she lied to me. If she lied to me to con me out of more money, yes I would feel annoyed (but betrayed might be too strong a term.) But if it were for some other reason, for example if she lied about something because she was too embarassed or ashamed of something to tell me the truth, that wouldn't bother me at all. I might actually feel flattered that she cared what I thought of her.

"Sweet women lie, kid ... Men lie to get something or get out of something. Women lie because they're good at it. The sweeter the woman, the better the liar." -- from "Sweet Women Lie" a novel by Loren Estlemen.

I think men and women have a totally different definition of what is or is not a lie. It's also been my experience that there are plenty of non-dancer women out there who have just as many sob stories and will be just as glad to take your money. It has nothing to do with being a dancer, it's just easier for us to meet the ones who are dancers. When I get a sob story I find another dancer. And I never tip in advance for anything. The surest way for a dancer to not get any of my money is to ask for it.

FONDL--I know many dancers who are intelligent, witty, polite, charming and fun. But I know that it's in the club and just for money. Discussion of personal life is an effort to get me to feel that I should help them out financially, because of a bad breakup, back child support, etc. No deal. Not any more.

I agree it's mostly about money: never forget that these girls are working and what they're doing is their job. But they also have feelings and care about some of their customers as people. I've found some dancers to be very honest and very generous once you've earned their trust and get to know them. That's when I enjoy it the most. I enjoy hearing about thir personal lives and telling them about mine. Some dancers are very intelligent and interesting people.

Chitownlawyer has got it right. All of this is fantasy and acting. Since I know that I will never see a dancer outside of a club, I have no qualms about giving a pushy dancer the following responses: (1) No, I am not giving you my business card or phone number, because I know you are not available (a protective and pre-emptive strike that lets her know where she stands); (2) cut-off the conversation or the dance as soon as she starts complaining about not money. If I hear this stuff during a lapdance, I stop right there, pay her for the dance and move on. Since I spend a lot on laps and tip generously, the other dancers are only too happy to see me freed up and don't really care what happened. The word has gotten around at my regular club that at least one customer is in charge of his time and money and not accepting any nonsense.
We have to stop being wusses and wimps in clubs and make it clear that we are there to be entertained for the moment and not become boyfriends or sugar daddies.
Yes, I know and accept the risk that some dancers will think me a jerk and avoid me. They lose money. I explain my position as gently and politely as I can. " I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this dance can't continue because...." " I am sorry that you are having financial difficulties, but I came in here to forget about such things..." "Why are you asking for a tip before we are finished?" I also give back rubs, foot massages or caresses, allowed and will discuss anything with a dancer except her personal financial or emotional problems. I don't want to be sucked into paying for her life and her children's needs. And that's what's really behind this ATF scam. So let them lie to you and keep your feelings out it.

Good points jpac.

My attitude is, it's pure fantasy. As someone on another board says, "this is all fiction." That's how I feel about strip clubs. If a dancer ever wanted to meet me outside the club, I would consider "the real world" to start with our first meeting outside the club. But anything that happens inside the club should be considered 100% fiction--including a dancer's promise to meet you in the real world.

Harsh, but I think that's the only realistic way to look at is. So, to answer the presenting question, I would not be mad/feel betrayed if my ATF (and I have had them) left the club and cut ties. I might be mad at myself for feeling betrayed. Even with my ATFs, my attitude is like that toward an actor/actress who plays my favorite character on a tv show/ in a movie...it's all an act.

If you guys feel that most strippers are just faking being friendly to you then why do you go? I wouldn't want to be sitting talking to someone or spending money on someone who could care less about what you are doing and talking about. Basically some of you think that all strippers are golddiggers. I am not saying you should fall in love with a stripper that you called your favorite but shouldn't there be some trust and respect from both sides? If you are going strictly for the lapdances then why sit up and talk about your personal life to someone whom you say really doesn't give a dam'n about you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Don't get emotional over a woman who's goal in life is to earn as much of your money as she can. This is a business for them and they have no emotional attachments. Many dancers are good at faking an attachment to get customers to become regulars. When they move on they really move on. You are not important to them beyond being a regular source of dances.

It would depend on what the girl is lying to you about. I have lied to many different girls and dancers and don't believe I was betraying them. It's not like you are married to them and telling them you didn't do anything with that girl you met at the club the other night. I believe dancers feel betrayed if you have sex with them and then spend time with other dancers in their club. They may start asking questions if you slept with her or her etc. and don't care who overhears.

I think it's best to just not beleive anything a stripper says. In general if you assume they are sociopaths with no normal sense of morals you should do alright. If you do meet them outside the club be sure there is nothing they can steal around.

In twenty or so years of strip clubbing I've given my name and number to probably 20 or more dancers who said they wanted to keep in touch when they quit. About 5 actualy ever called and only one keeps in close touch. Don't be too hard on the ladies when this happens. They have moved on with their lives and often, once they are outside of the SC environment, Those SC friendships and feelings fade away. No matter what a dacer says to you about friendsip, you don't really know whats there until she is no longer dancing.

Jpac, I think what you've described is actually a pretty common occurance. When girls quit dancing they often want to leave all the people associated with that part of their lives behind them. When my ATF quit and went back to being a waitress, she called me and invited me to come see her. But I had been her best customer for a long time and we had had dinner together outside the club many times. The manager of the club told some of her other customers where she was working and she was really pissed when they came to see her. If the girl is just changing clubs and you're a good customer, she is likely to tell you where she goes. But if she is quitting dancing you aren't likely to hear from her unless you've become good friends outside the club. Don't take it personally, they do this for their own protection.

If I were a young guy, then I'd probably be depressed. After many decades I learned that shit happens. :) Also, what may seemed like a good idea at the time can change in an hour, a day, etc.

Unfortunately, women became more interchangeable. Not a lesson I wanted to accept. Yes, there have been superstars . . . but, it is that old media saw when one door closes another opens . . .

Superdude I am glad that you have a firm stance on what you won't putup with at the stripclubs. I guess you don't really have a favorite or "ATF", but I would like to ask if a stripper is telling you things about her personal life (includinng her boyfriend) couldn't it be concieved that she is a little more comfortable with you and feels that you should know that by now there won't be anything between you and her? I guess some strippers "game" is better than others, asking you for a tip before the dance is over with isn't good at all. I think some of the strippers who take the "aggressive" approach feel that a customer who is by himself will feel intimadated or guilty into giving her more money.