Patience vs. Obscession

I had one like this that I cultivated for a while thinking that I could overcome her OTC opposition. It was a very similar situation -- she delivered as much as the club wound allow which was good but not great and refused OTC. She was smart and strong willed, and spent many hours with me in the club whether I was spending or not. I gave it about 4 months until it became clear that nothing more was going to develop, and then I moved on. Only you can judge when that point is reached, but your post makes it sound like you are probably there or close to it.

I still play with her in the club occasionally when I don't have a better option, but I completely given up on an OTC or more involved relationship. Admittedly, having the DS made this a lot easier but it was the right thing to do regardless.

My strategy is telling her I've already given up on her. She thinks that's funny as I'm slipping $$$ into her garter.

I have a lot of patience when it comes to OTC. Partly because it is not a top priority. I have only done it with one dancer in the last 2 years and she has now moved out of state and I think out of the business. I recently had one no show and have crossed her off my list of favs. I'm working on a couple of others but am in no rush.

SC: Normally I'm not looking for OTC either, since I had a g/f who would do anything and everything for free. But since I'm single again and on the prowl, I'm not eliminating the club as a possible recruiting ground. Beats Craigs List, although most of my civi g/f's have come from C/L. Yes, it IS possible! Plus, this girl is very special.

Give it two to three months. If she doesn't do OTC by then, odds are its not in the works.

I think we sometimes get the wrong mindset that just b/c we are buying there’s going to be a seller – I may be wrong; but I would say the majority of dancers don’t do extras and even less do OTC – i.e. IMO it’s not a slam-dunk/done-deal just b/c we are willing to buy/spend-the-money.

Most likely a PL will not be able to pressure a dancer into extras or OTC via ultimatums, innuendos; etc – and this may actually piss her off and make her dig her heels-in even more – similar to a dancer hitting us up for dances when we are not interested; the more they persist; the more annoyed we usually get.

I do think there is always some chance the dancer will at some point give in either b/c she may become very comfortable w/ the custy or b/c she may find herself in an unexpected extra difficult financial situation – but in the end I think there really isn’t anything else a PL can do but test the waters every now and then by asking and just accept it for what it is.

A PL should keep spending on her if he still enjoys his time w/ her – but not b/c he thinks this will get him closer to the cuchie b/c this will probably have the opposite effect – i.e. if she gets the PL’s $$$ w/o putting out; then why put out.

My 2 centavos.

For starters, don't empty your wallet on her. If you are making her fat ITC, you are shooting yourself in the foot. I cap out at about $150 per visit for a girl who is not also giving me the goods OTC, and often I spend closer to $100. I never go into a club with less than $500 and any girl who I like enough to visit multiple times eventually learns that I always have a lot more in my pocket, but that getting deeper into the bill roll requires something more.

Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't, but I've had a few long-term hold-outs eventually come around when they got comfortable and/or had other cash needs pushing them along. I always have at least one girl in the OTC rotation at any one time, so I'm not under pressure to convert the next one. If I really enjoy visiting a girl ITC, then I will continue to do so until I no longer enjoy it, though she will never make a fortune off of me. If the girl I really enjoy eventually converts, then great for both of us as I now have a better OTC girl and she gets a lot more of my club spending. If not, then eventually one or both of us will move on.

Papi is wise; thanks!

I second that. Wise words PC.

^ I third it (at the risk of being redundant) :)

I think Papi has it 100% right when he says most dancers don't do extras and even less do OTC.

My ATF started out like that. She declined to meet OTC, even though she'd gone as far as oral ITC. Like yours, she'd sit with me for long periods of time, without me spending much money. I was just about to give up on ever seeing her OTC, when one say she was complaining about how slow it was, and how she was barely gonna make tip out and babysitter money (for her, that meant that almost no customers had come in; even on slow nights she could usually make two or three C).

I just looked at her and said, "You realize that I have been offering you two hundred dollars for an hour or two somewhere else, right? Two hundred you don't have to share with the club, or bouncers, or waitresses, or anybody, right?"

She just kind of looked at me for a few minutes.

I texted her the following week, asking her if she was working that night, and her response was "Yes. Want to meet before I go?"

The rest is, as they say, history.

For the right dancer I will spend months trying to get OTC. But if you don't have the patience, you can up the amount of money until they accept (or you decide it's not worth it.)

I have clients trying to lure me into OTC all the time. The most frequent argument on their part is that I get to keep all OTC money as opposed to sharing. However, for one, I am making 5 per minute doing lap dances in the club and secondly, and most importantly, I have the protection of bouncers in the club. Why would I put my life on the line for what someone above I think mentioned $200? It just doesn't make sense for a successful dancer to go the OTC route. Sorry guys.

Geez your a retard rockstar66. The word is abscession

@diva1975: Obviously, it makes sense for some successful dancers to do so. Perhaps there are some things you haven't considered?

Well the feel free to enlighten me!

Papi and Rick both have really good points. A lot of dancers won't do any OTC, and you should set goals for both your money and your time with this dancer. If you're enjoying her company and what she offers now, no sense in pushing her; you could just wind up pushing her away. And who knows? Maybe you just haven't reached her comfort level for something like that yet. Maybe sometime she'll need a ride home, or she might be up for lunch, too. A more innocent time outside of the club could give both of you a better perspective and a better chance on all of this. (Geez, that's sounding a big SJG.)

PhantomGeek posted: "Maybe sometime she'll need a ride home, or she might be up for lunch, too. A more innocent time outside of the club could give both of you a better perspective and a better chance on all of this. "

Maybe in some instances, but all too often it is just another way in which the girl tries to hustle more out of a guy. You don't want to be the guy that she starts calling for rides, lunch, "loans", etc., while some other guy is fucking her, which all too often is how these ambiguous social OTC things end up working out.

To each his own I suppose, but I don't do casual OTC meetups where p4p sex is not on the agenda. Truth be told, I don't have either the time or patience to sit there and listen to most of these girls for hours, or to constantly fend off requests for xyz, etc.

@Diva: If anyone thinks I'm a risk to their lives then I haven't touched their soul in any meaningful way. I may be cheap but I'm not easy, and it's a very select group of girls I even pay attention to, let alone bed. Not all men are sluts.

@ Rick: Yes, I was the platonic go to guy for a dancer as I wrote about a couple months back, and I didn't mind because she's cool. This situation is different because the other girl likes girls so my prospects were limited. In this case I am looking for a cheap and tawdry affair, and it remains to be seen if she'll stoop that low or not.

I tend to agree with Diva that $200 doesn't make a lot of economic sense for most dancers to do OTC. That's one of the reasons that I pay substantially more than that, but I only offer that for the right girl who is going to give me the experience and service that I want. A lot of times the girl I'm having an OTC date with has to skip work in order to be with me. So I pay her what she would likely make working at the club that night plus a little extra. That makes complete sense from her perspective. She is guaranteed a reasonable income for the evening, only has to "work" for about four hours instead of 8 to 10 hours, and she only has to entertain one guy instead of a whole roomful.

As for safety, that is obviously a valid concern for any dancer. However, I go out of my way to a assure dancers of their safety. I usually get to know them for a little while first. And everything we do on the date except for the sex is public -- dinner, shopping, hotel, etc. if anything happened to her, I'd be arrested in less than 24 hours because I'd be on surveillance video with her all over the place.

$200? I want OTC for free! In fact, to enter my universe she should pay me. That's the acid test for a dancer: any idiot can pay her if she's an OTC type. Money won't get the job with this girl...if we ever have sex it will be because she wants me like I want her. If I'm paying money I'll just hire an escort and skip the drama. Free sex always includes drama which is all part of the game.

@rockstar: I think the term that you were reaching for with "go to guy" was "gofer." ;)

You are not the first PL, nor will you be the last, to become some dancer's gofer. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that Gofer-ism is the worst form of PLdom. The gofer is the guy who does what a BF would do for a girl without any of the real benefits. He also reduces his chances of ever actually getting in her pants as she realizes that she can get shit from him without having to give him anything, which in turn causes her to lose whatever little respect she might have had for him in the first place. Once you get firmly placed in that gofer category in her mind, you never get out.

When I was a regular in a club up north, one of my OTC favorites had a very loyal gofer. He would deliver shit to her and even run out to an ATM to get her more whatever money he could spare. I would watch him hover sometimes, waiting for a break so that he could hand over the goods or cash to her. Then she would come back and joke about the shit that she got him to do. I understand how it happened, since it took me 6 months to finally get this girl OTC myself (she was hot, fun and smart), but I would rather have come up empty than behave like that dude. And he was doing all of this without ever getting into her pants.

I've seen other situations like this as well. A gofer may win a hearty thank you for doing something, but never really wins respect or a chance to get in her pants.

Moral of the story: Don't be a gofer. ;)

Well, I haven't seen the ATF in a month or two so it's not like I'm her slave. Plus I never give her money OTC. I'm good with her as a friend; there's no abuse here. I agree that sex doesn't happen when you get in the "friends" category but like I said, she's fucking my #2 dancer, not guys, and I'm fine with that. My new girl is my current focus!

Two dancers already told me about asking them out ( getting them to sleep with me ), and what they both said was...

You don't need money, you just need to be lucky, be at the right place at the right time.

And...

Once that happens, do not expect it to happen again.

nsaney.blogspot.com

@alabegonz: Yes, I can see for my new girl timing is the most important. Money won't be a factor. I'll see her next week and see if she's been thinking about it.

rockstar666,

I am having a hard time understanding what is going on. You say the girl says she doesn't do OTC. But I understand that as meaning P4P OTC. You say you are available. So why do you keep going to the club and why do you even talk about OTC with her. Why not just invite her out on a civilian date, and completely separate your relationship with her from the SC?

SJG

“… Why would I put my life on the line for what someone above I think mentioned $200? It just doesn't make sense for a successful dancer to go the OTC route …”

That is a valid point – but some dancers are just wired differently or may have differently life circumstances – thus why they would want the extra $200 or w/e it may be – may be analogous to someone having a straight 40 hour job and then freelancing on the side for a bit extra $$$ even though it may not be huge $$$.

Additionally – just like it would not make sense for a dancer to do OTC for $200 or w/e the amount may be –analogously many will say it does not make sense for some PLs to pay a dancer a couple of $100 for the dancer just to sit w/ him and keep him company – many would say that does not make “financial sense” yet there are some PLs that do this.

And w.r.t. safety – that is also a very valid point – but men and women have engaged in P4P since the beginning of time and it seems this will not stop anytime soon even though there are some risks to both parties involved.

SJG: The club has rules against "dating" and she won't do it. We'll see if I get anywhere over the next few weeks.

Rules against "dating"? Obviously that is nonsense. OTC is what they can object to, but not what people do in their personal lives.

If you ask her out in a completely civilian manner, you should have no problem.

"I don't go out with customers", my first experience with a Go Go Dancer. tuscl.net

SJG