Test drives can be inconclusive.

“… but can you be sure that the test drive results will lead to a satisfactory ending in VIP …”

Only 2 things are for sure – death and taxes :)

But other than word-of-mouth/recommendation; no way of knowing for sure so a test-drive may be the only available thing to go by

But when you test drive a girl, don't you want her to feel the sexual tension? Don't you let her know you have a huge boner and that you really want to fuck her? That's what girls like.

MA02

I would say that if she is sitting on your lap and DFKing with you and at least letting you get to FOV, and if she is really getting off on it, and then if she lets you be the one to invite her into the VIP room and that the communication is based around a civilian way of talking about FS, then the chances of a mind blowing FS / GFE experience with her are very close to 100%. But mostly it would require being able to put her on her back, like on the floor of the VIP Room.

Certainly in storefront AMPs it works very much like this.

And as far as kissing her, there are all sorts of ways of doing it. It can start easy and playful, as part of just talking with her and getting to know her. You can give her sitting tips to show your good intent in making this slow build up and so that she is not at risk of ending up with nothing if it falls thru and does not go all the way to the VIP room.

I would think that if you were able to conduct this type of test drive there would be no risk. If a girl is DFKing with you and really getting into it, she really has very very little ability to resist left.

Strip Clubs are supposed to be places for a public show. It is a cabaret show which can also have audience participation.

So while there could be zero need for back rooms, I would say that the best time to take to the back room with her would be when the customers pants need to come down.

If you can get the girl heated up this way in the main room, it will work. I feel that being able to stage it this way is more important than what the girl may say or what people may say about her.

SJG

"But when you test drive a girl, don't you want her to feel the sexual tension? Don't you let her know you have a huge boner and that you really want to fuck her? That's what girls like. "

Yes, exactly, that's what I'm describing setting up with her with the lap sitting, DFKing, and at least some FOV.

If you can get her heated up enough, there is no need left for talk.

SJG

Nothing is guaranteed except Taxes and Death

^ thanks for the corrections IME :)

^ thanks for the correction IME :)

I've known of situations where your dancer is giving you high mileage outside of VIP. You ask about the mileage inside VIP with a positive confirmation only to be told when you get back there that she thought that was all you wanted to do was more of the same.

and NEVER EVER go back to VIP with a girl that says "we'll have fun" as her only response to you.

It's a crap shoot at times.

@PAPI wasn't a correction I totally missed you said the same thing, my bad.

^ I know – I was being facetious (didn’t you notice the happy face :))

It's better to just bite the bullet and just enjoy what happens....some times you win and some times you lose....all of life is a gamble

I've had good experiences with girls that I thought sucked on stage and in the main room, but because we clicked I gave her a chance and had a great LD in the VIP. Typically, if she is touchy feely in the main room then she will be good for LD, but also if there is genuine spark then the stripper is more willing to give a better LD and thus more mileage. I've disarmed a strippers inhibitions, because I got under her skin in a positive way and usually she offered me her number even though I turn 'em down, because I don't venture OTC.

I think conversation as the basis of the test drive is important. If you're willing to play it slow, multiple test drives could yield some good LD action. My ATF was busy on a recent visit, but another dancer I had chatted with (essentially vetted) on multiple occasions was available. We were pretty familiar with each other already and she was super enthusiastic when I said I would go in the LD room with her, as I had turned it down every other time previously...we had an outstanding session.

If you have a common sexual interest that is confirmed during the test drive then you should be good to go in the LD room as well. During same night as above (I was pretty shitfaced and silly at this point), dancer I never saw walked by and had a great feet. Conversation went like this: Me: let me get a better look at that pedi. Her: (puts foot on stool) Me: lovely(puts dollar in toes) Her: well that's a first Me: was it as good for you as it was for me? Her: I love when guys do anything with my feet Me: then you're gonna love me Her: let's go

So two different test drives lead to two outstanding dances for me that night.

san_jose_gay is one clueless bitch.

I go on gut feeling and so far more I've got more hits than misses. Sometimes a great sales pitch during regular dances is just that - a pitch. Only experience in this hobby will help weed out the potential pay off from the waste of money.

Just buy the Prius

Lol mo heade lol

sc,

I don't think there is anyway to KNOW. Even a fave can have an "off" day. I recall a time another TUSCler said he had taken my fave at a club to the LD area. He wasn't impressed. That said, I think even a recommendation from others might not work. My guess is that some dancers just prefer certain customers, just as we customers prefer certain dancers.

A test drive is necessary but is only of limited benefit. All you really know for sure is that she will likely do as much during the V I P as she did during the test drive. I have found that a frank and open discussion before VIP is usually necessary unless I already know the girl. I am very clear about what I want to do, and insist upon a clear yes or no answer to each item. Vague answers and nonspecific promises of fun mean an end to the discussion in all cases. No exceptions.

The more I do this, the more I find that you have to be extraordinarily clear in reaching agreement on what you want. For example, last week I was negotiating with a dancer for VIP. She refused the top items on my wish list, so I said I wanted to titty fuck. She said yes. I said that means I can rub my penis between your breasts until I cum. She said okay. We get to the VIP, I unzip my pants and pull it out, and she says WTF, put that away. Turns out she claims to interpret what I said to you mean that I can rub my dick between her breasts as long as it stays in my pants. So what I needed to say was "I will unzip my pants, remove my penis, and rub my uncovered penis between your breasts until I cum on your breasts." Live and learn.

At first these were somewhat uncomfortable conversations, but not with practice. There really is no alternative unless you want to take your luck and get ripped off a lot. Obviously this is not a romantic way to start your interlude, but this is business not romance. I want to get what I'm paying for, and this seems the only way to be sure that I get value for my money.

Of course, it is always possible for a girl to lie and refuse to do what she promised in the VIP. However, experiences like I had last week are very uncommon. Most girls will either say no or come close to living up to their promises. With time I think you develop instinct to avoid the most blatant ROBs.

The only situations where I might not do this interview, or might keep it more limited, are where the VIP sessions are inexpensive ( like $100-$150). In that circumstance, especially if it is a high mileage club, the full interview might not be necessary since I don't stand to lose that much.

JS,

Good write up, but like you said, they can always lie and often do.

also, keep in mind that if a dancer does not know you, she might be vague because she thinks you might be local LEO trying to catch her.

Another good thing to consider is to NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER bring two dancers back to VIP that are unfamiliar with each other.

The mileage drops to nothing because both girls are afraid that the other will talk or lose respect for the other because of what she's doing. Or worse, one dancer might cock-block the other from doing higher mileage extras.

plus, if you pay your VIPs different depending on the girl, and you bring two girls with different deals back to the same room, the higher price will always win out.

Test drive plus, as JS points out, a frank and often explicit conversation prior to VIP, along with refusing to "tip" until service is rendered, have worked well for me for the past few years.

I'm sure the fact that I'm a regular at those clubs has helped, though. On more than one occasion, I've had a new girl be vague, or even outright refuse, only to come back later and say something like "the bartender says you're cool, so OK."

chukka wrote:

" Typically, if she is touchy feely in the main room then she will be good for LD, but also if there is genuine spark then the stripper is more willing to give a better LD and thus more mileage. I've disarmed a strippers inhibitions, because I got under her skin in a positive way and usually she offered me her number even though I turn 'em down, because I don't venture OTC. "

draper wrote: "I think conversation as the basis of the test drive is important. If you're willing to play it slow, multiple test drives could yield some good LD action. My ATF was busy on a recent visit, but another dancer I had chatted with (essentially vetted) on multiple occasions was available. We were pretty familiar with each other already and she was super enthusiastic when I said I would go in the LD room with her, as I had turned it down every other time previously...we had an outstanding session.

If you have a common sexual interest that is confirmed during the test drive then you should be good to go in the LD room as well. During same night as above (I was pretty shitfaced and silly at this point), dancer I never saw walked by and had a great feet. "

I agree fully with what these two say. It's really not just a test drive which is in order. The idea is to get her completely off script. You find ways to do this, but conversation is the most important. If she is following your words, then you have her attention. If you are in a club which doesn't have too many fixed rules, then being able to get touchy feeling with her in the main room makes a big difference.

See, I treat all women like civilians in all situations, no exceptions. Now of course in that kind of work environment they are going to use a script, but I will try various ways of getting her off script, and doing it from the very start.

So it is not going to be a matter of negotiating sexual services, as that would be to treat her like a vending machine. Rather I follow chukka and find ways to use words to get under her skin. It goes beyond just disarming their inhibitions, its just a matter of letting them be the sexual creatures that they are. You can't just hand them money and ask for mind blowing sex. You have to stage the situation and make that happen with her. You have to blow her mind, and you first have to get her ready for that.

The standard storefront AMP script is "Take off your clothes, take shower, lie face down on the table."

I would convert that by taking my own shower before coming. Then I would hold hands with her while I slow her down and am entertaining her by talking to her as she leads me to the room. Then it would usually proceed to making out with her as I have her backed up against the wall, or sitting on my lap. Words to soften her up, being flexible and sensitive, and also being assertive, are the ways of doing this.

I would have staged this from the very beginning by manipulating the window shopping routine to get her excited.

So then while usually this county's AMP sessions would just be guys lying naked on the table trying to negotiate an HJ by offering money, mine would proceed with no real discussion about anything, just my pressing the standard base amount of FS money into the hand of a very exited girl, to she and I taking the twin sized bed sheet off the narrow massage table and then putting it on the floor with the pillow.

Then she would give it up for me on her back on the floor with zero reserve, letting her mind get completely blown, while I put on a masterful performance for her.

In a strip club where they can do FS, it can go the same way.

clubber wrote about the importance of talk, and I agree completely. They are perfectly happy to talk about fetishistic things too. They like doing this.

People think strip clubs are about nudity. Wrong. Nudist camps and nudist beaches are boring places. They are about high heels and makeup, about girls dressed impeccably for showing pussy. They are about girls creating high voltage raw sexual attraction. They love it when people appreciate this and show an understanding of this.

And yes, finding interesting ways of using small amounts of money to tip them can really get to them. It is another way of you being the one making the script.

I had a long conversation about all of this with an 18yo waitress hired at San Jose's Pink Poodle. At that place most of the waitresses are also available for doing the $20 air dances. She was not, even though idiots were offering her as much as $500 and $1000.

I told her that the others were doing well up on stage, on their backs showing. ( Pink Poodle has a very high stage. ) She said, "Yes, that's what it is, showing." "It isn't dancing." So we talked and she came to understand more about how it works for men, and what this is really all about.

If you can get a stripper DFKing with you in the main room, and the main way you will do this is with words and gentleness, then she will let you make mind blowing sex happen with her. Because they know that it works like this is the main reason that they try to refuse DFK.

TJ Zona Norte streets must be fun.

c2.staticflickr.com

c2.staticflickr.com

farm6.staticflickr.com

I would get this one on the left completely off of script and into civilian territory right away, right there on the sidewalk. I wouldn't be able to give her table dancing tips, but I would find some way to get her to accept "flirting tips".

I am convinced that the reason this day crew works on the street instead of say Adelitas or the Hong Kong Bar, is because they want to be their own bosses. The keep more of the money. But they also get to meet their clients in broad daylight, and they get to control their working hours. They want to be home with their kids each day.

So she will be completely her own boss. She will be completely free to engage or not engage with me as I offer myself to her with various alternative scripts.

Now she won't be like the Hong Kong girls, who I am sure are encouraged to go off the clock with guys, as they need to sleep somewhere and sleep sometime anyway. No, daytime school girls want regular hours, so time is always money.

But I would still offer to take her to lunch before the session, just to have more time to talk to her. And if that didn't work, I would offer to take her to lunch before a second session. Either way, because I'd off gotten her completely off script and changed the nature of the relationship from the very start, we'd be breaking lots of bed springs and the experience would never be forgotten by either party.

I have my own longer term reasons for why I would want to be meeting various sorts of people in places in the US and Mexico, and maintaining contact. It would be easier to do this with one of these day shift school girls than it would be with a Hong Kong Bar girl who works in binge mode and probably lives somewhere far away.

So when it comes down to the issue of who fucks the women, so many guys have been convinced that it is about being rich, handsome, well built, or famous, or that it is about doing lots of P4P or being a Sugar Daddy.

I do not agree with this at all. I can see why it would look this way, because people have an interest in making you think it is that way. My whole history of strip club experience shows me that it is not like this. There girls are available, personable, lovely, and lonely.

So what it really comes down to is who controls the turf and the logistics, and who makes the rules. So then the first place to start is by looking for ways to change some of the rules. So then it is not just test driving. Get the girl off script and take the relationship into a different place, and them make it happen with her.

SJG

Aren't I worth more than $200? youtube.com

JohnSmith69 knock the ball out of the park! I always do a one song test drive in the regular lap dance room before going to VIP. If the dance in the regular room is uninspiring, I cut my losses. If inspiring, I let the stripper know exactly what I want BBBJ/FS. Sometimes. a stripper may give FS, but not BBBJ. I will still work with her for the future. If a stripper agrees to my plans, but flatly refuses to implement them in the VIP, I do not tip. Never tip upfront in the VIP.

Good topic shadow. Because I'm fairly particular, I might have a lower average. As we've discussed, there are a couple of dancers at follies that just don't test drive that great, and definitely won't have explicit conversation and agreement about extras. More and more I'm leaning towards just going with my instinct and chalking it up as a learning experience knowing that 40-50% of the time that I get "just a good dance"

I'm aiming high and typically going for 7.5-10s. I know the percentages may drop with the young, super cuties, but it seems worth the effort when you have an 8 on her knees looking up as she takes care of things!

Candid Interview All The Way!

This method works out for me almost always, I'd say like 95% of the time. Also take into consideration that I have been going to clubs regularly for the past 10+ years so I have a bit of intuition when it comes to such matters...

I try to be subtle about it at first and just ask, "What can I expect from a VIP every dancer is different"

Any response overly vague and I'll just leave that dancer alone, such as "I'll take care of you" or "We'll take care of each other and have a good time"

I had a dancer once say "Your going to get dressed like me (she being naked at the time) then were going to rub our bodies all over each other till you explode, everywhere" This is a good sign. Any similar response is a good sign. I've also had dancers respond "Do you have a condom"?

Which leads to me my next course of action. When they come up with whatever vague description they want to come up with I'll respond "Will I need a condom" There's no vague response to that one. Either I will or I won't. Now weather that includes the whole menu or just a BJ is still the risk but most the time it's the entire menu.

On another note. I have had a girl repeatedly tell me how she's "not like the other sluts in the club" only to have her give up the full menu in the VIP.

I have had it happen to me where a dancer passed the "Test Drive Interview" with FLYING COLORS. Long story short she slipped willy out during a lapdance and BBBJ for a while. Only to get VIP and get none of the same action again. Since that day forward I always just ask. The "Test Drive" I guess is good to narrow your search cause I find it hard to see a dancer giving a very low mileage dance then going all in during a VIP.

I am however lucky enough to live next to a lower-middle class redneck town. The particular club I usually frequent literally every dancer allows free roaming of hands to every where (aside the kitty for a few of them) during a regular lapdance. I would imagine pulling my methods in a "upscale" club would yield the same results.

wouldn't yield the same results is what I mean to say.

ujay,

That sounds fantastic that wherever you are that things can so easily be brought to FS. I would really like that.

I think some of the problem here is that people are in clubs where FS is rare at best, and so they are dealing with intermediate levels of mileage. Hence there can be a much greater need for explicit discussion, and even so there can be disappointed expectations. Also, these intermediate mileage levels still amount to the girl doing something to you or for you, rather than her just submitting and letting you do it to her. So this is also where there are going to be problems.

When it comes to FS though, once the girl assents to this and you can see this in her body language, I don't think there will be many problems.

As far as a test drive in the "regular lap dance room", I would still say that the real reason for all of these special dance areas is just to let the house take a deeper cut into the money, and then impose a structure on the interaction. The house can only go so far in imposing flat access rates. So they will want to make it a percentage. But this is impossible to enforce, unless you set up these special dance areas. And of course the dancers know this and understand exactly what is going on.

Likewise, once you have these special dance areas, you cannot just sit and talk with her afterwards, because she will continue to be billed for this. So there is a great deal of external pressure being imposed.

So my view is that when ever possible, break out of these structures. If the girl wants to demonstrate to you that she is fully worth taking into the VIP room, she can do this with you in the main room. She can even come up to you and begin doing it without asking your permission.

My own observation, and a fact communicated explicitly to me by experienced dancers, is that they can make more money per hour in venues where they just go from one guy to another, and do what ever it is that they do. Usually the guys will tip them, and keep tipping them as long as they want them to stay.

Also, those venues are so much fun that most guys will just freely engage with whatever dancer comes up to them, and not be choosey. When I went to the underground circuit which ran in Mexican Bars they might have had six dancers. I would budget my money to have some for each of them. In those kinds of environments guys spend their money quickly, and they have lots of fun with the spirit of it all, and then they leave. Then other guys take their seats. The house might turn over three times in a three hour show. Most of the dancers will be metering in money for 60min out of each hour, except for a bit of time they take for breaks.

So then in these kinds of FS situations you are talking about, there probably is no reason a dancer cannot let you "test drive" her in the main seating area. And if you can communicate your good intentions to her with table dancing or sitting tips, then she does not have to cut that money with the house, and also since you are driving it by tipping in small increments, then you can lead it. You can prolong this phase of the engagement as long as you like, and she should be happy because you are taking care of her well. Likewise, you are creating more opportunities just to talk to her, by lifting up her hair and getting cheek to cheek with her, and then to let things go easier later on. It is better if she can be really forward, but then if you can become the one driving it.

I would still say that if you can get her DFKing with you, and then even maybe FOV or FIV, then she has submitted emotionally and then going to FS with her in the VIP room should be just phenomenal. I am sure that dancers completely understand this, and that this is exactly the reason they often resist it.

"If I did that I would be falling in love with each one of my customers."

Likewise, if you want to be engaging with a dancer in intimate acts, then getting her off of this service performance script and into a freer form of interaction which she lets you lead, makes all the difference.

They have no problem with the fact that much of this is being driven by a raw and fetishistic kind of attraction. They have signed on for this and they have come to understand this. They like it.

But still for her to really be able to open herself up to you and to the kind of experience she will have in FS, it still helps a great deal if she can have time to relate to you by talking, and also by interacting with you in unstructured ways.

So if you can get her to interact with you verbally and physically without any specific structure like songs and all, then it should work out better all around. What keeps her happy during this will be these table dancing or sitting tips.

And likewise, if she likes going this way, she can just approach guys on her own and initiate this, and make lots more money than she will by trying to talk guys into the lap dance area.

About these clubs where you are getting FS in, I am curious. Are the VIP rooms big enough that you can pretty much do it the way you want?

For me, with a girl I do not have an ongoing sexual relationship with, I'm going to want to bring it on home with her by putting her on her back. Can you do that in these clubs, and does that mean that you will be on the floor with her? Are the rooms big enough to make graceful position changes with her? I fear that in many places the VIP rooms are specifically designed to discourage this.

I would bring a jacket that I could fold up to put under her head. Then I would proceed to start doing their dancers, one each day, one after another.

Of the sort of FS VIP experiences you are talking about, are these cases where the girl wants to drive it all herself and wants to use that girl on top riding position, on the couch. She can get herself off real well, but she has not actually submitted to much. I know that the reasons why some dancers have these aggressive VIP routines, is so that they do not have to offer any submission. Based on a discussion on another thread, I believe that some dancers do not even consider FS done in that way to count as sex. This tells you how the psychology of this works for them, and how they are able to dissociate by insisting that they drive it.

Again, if you can get her into increasingly intense DFK before going into any VIP with you, it won't be like this because she has submitted.

My own idea would be to drive a small motorhome into the parking, and then just do one dancer each day. The motorhome would not be huge, but it would work for what I am describing. But I don't know how many clubs would be willing to play along with this. I am quite sure that once the dancers heard some reports back about what I was doing, that most all of them would be lining up for their turn.

roadtrek.com

If the VIP rooms, say wherever you are, are big enough, then the motorhome would be unnecessary, and then doing it that way with the house getting some of the money would be a show of respect to the house.

SJG

Shinedown Live youtube.com

SJG...VIP room sex can sometimes become more intense and pleasurable than bedroom sex. The small space allows for very close bonding. Intense kisses, BBBJ, cowgirl, doggy, and even lying partially on the couch with the legs pinned to the ears. I was elated and sweating today after such an experience. Well worth the money spend. Read my review.

@ujay-

sorry but IMHO even the best ITC VIP experience could never compare to bedroom sex. You are in a cramped room/cubicle in a public place that has been used 50 times that day by god knows who leaving behind god knows what. Yes it is a fun erotic adventure based on what it is, but comparing ITC frolics to bedroom sex is like comparing fast food to a fine home cooked meal. No comparison.

SJG,

Your video with Elisabeth Shue was a surprise. I don't recall the movie she was in, but it was the first time I ever saw and knew of her. She was very hot in that film!

So I think we finally have the answer to what Shadowcat is asking about. Lots of threads, lots of posts, and lots of contention. But I have the 4th post here and I said sitting on your lap, DFKing, and going up to FOV. I did not say FIV because I know some might find that excessive and maybe you need to have lube and some dancers will resist that. Also, if you are planning to DATY her, better not to get her going with the heavier stimulation of FIV. Hold it back.

So Jestrite50 has explained that these front room makeout sessions are his standard mode.

And now Duke69 has given a detailed narrative of just such a thing, including FOV just up to the threshold of FIV, but stopping on account of his intent to DATY her. tuscl.net

So then the real question then is why do this in the front room, possibly with sitting tips, instead of paying the dance booth fee and doing it in there with her.

Well of course in the front room the money doesn't get cut.

But the more basic reason is that in the front room she is just surrendering and "letting you have your way with her". This is how you want it to be at all times when sexually engaging with women.

But if you Test Drive her in the dance booth, you are still letting her "sell dances". You don't want to be in that position. You don't want your relationship to her to be structured in that way. You don't want that to be the emotional dynamics of it. You want her to just let go.

This is the way my best AMP experiences have been. I was thinking today about one I had pinned up against the wall for gentle but purposeful DKFing. She didn't ask for money. But I still placed into her hand the friend price, $100. Only breaking eye contact with me for about 1/2 second, she threw it in the direction of the table near the dressing chair. Then we were back to hungry DKFing. Then soon FS on the massage table. Her last words were spoken up real close to me, "I like making love with you." She had never even left the room. Usually they leave to hied the money and to get the lube and the condom. I think I supplied the condom. She might not have even been planning to use one. I had to make sure that she didn't leave without her money.

When the girl just lets go, hormones take over and the encounter becomes mindblowing.

No reason it can't be like this in an SC. Easier in an SC because it is intended to be a free form hang out place. If the girl sees that you like her above all the others, her instincts are going to tell her to pull out all the stops for you.

You won't get that by letting her sell you dances or do test drives. Too structured. Instead, just move on her and make it happen. If she goes along with you, it will be phenomenal.

Thanks to Jestrite50, Duke69, Shadowcat, and all those who have helped to advance this line of inquiry.

SJG

Clapton, Badge youtube.com