Greatest Rock Groups in History
jerikson40
New York
Someone was saying they really want to know who was the greatest rock group in the history of the world. So here's the answer:
There are actually two contenders, and those are Led Zeppelin, and Van Halen (pre-Hagar, of course).
By coincidence, both groups also contain the greatest rock musicians of all time. Greatest rock vocalists in the history of the world? Obviously, David Lee Roth and Robert Plant. Plant had better vocals, but Roth was such a great vocalist AND so fucking cool and fun to watch.
Greatest rock drummers of all time? Again, obviously, John Bonham and Alex Van Halen. Okay, I may be wrong on that. Can't leave out guys like Keith Moon, etc., but you get the point.
Greatest rock guitarists of all time? Of course, Eddie Van Halen and Jimmy Page (except when Jimmy played live and on drugs). Those guys are rock gods who cannot be touched, no matter what anyone says. Amen.
So for all of you asking that question, that's the answer.
Word.
There are actually two contenders, and those are Led Zeppelin, and Van Halen (pre-Hagar, of course).
By coincidence, both groups also contain the greatest rock musicians of all time. Greatest rock vocalists in the history of the world? Obviously, David Lee Roth and Robert Plant. Plant had better vocals, but Roth was such a great vocalist AND so fucking cool and fun to watch.
Greatest rock drummers of all time? Again, obviously, John Bonham and Alex Van Halen. Okay, I may be wrong on that. Can't leave out guys like Keith Moon, etc., but you get the point.
Greatest rock guitarists of all time? Of course, Eddie Van Halen and Jimmy Page (except when Jimmy played live and on drugs). Those guys are rock gods who cannot be touched, no matter what anyone says. Amen.
So for all of you asking that question, that's the answer.
Word.
113 comments
Most overrated rock group in history? Of course the Beatles. The Beatles were good of you're over 60 and like elevator music. And Ringo Starr was the most overrated drummer on the planet, and somehow got people to put his name in the top 10 list of drummers? Yeah, nobody takes THAT seriously.
And we all know the #2 most overrated rock group is the Stones. Those were rock musicians for white guys with no soul.
And speaking of white guys with no sense whatsoever for the blues, Eric Clapton was, by far, the most overrated blues guitarist. Ever. Played the same riffs over and over and over and over. And they weren't that good in the first place.
What Rock groups have this many albums that are great from start to finish?
Abbey Road
Revolver
Please Please
Sgt Peppers a Lonely <3's Club
Help
"Strawberry Fields"??
"Yellow Submarine"??
"I am the Walrus"??
Okay, I'll stop there because I don't want to further embarrass you, but like I said, if you're 60 years old and love elevator music, then yes, the Beatles tunes were "catchy".
They don't even belong in contention for anything to do with rock.
Beatles were pop before their was pop, led and halen were leaning towards heavy metal before that genre really for it's foothold.
Don't forget Michael Anthony was a great bass player too...
Rolling Stones should be in the discussion but I think they fall into that "pop" category like the Beatles.
All my humble opinion of course v
Then there's a significant gap. You can fight over everyone else, as no one else approaches those top 3. Guns And Roses just don't have enough material, Van Halen has too much terrible material. Honorable mention to AC/DC.
"Best" guitarist is a difficult thing to argue as everyone is good and many are great, and we confuse bands we like with their guitar players. The Stones were great but Richards is more style than talent.
Obviously Hendrix is number one because he didn't have himself, or anyone else for that matter to copy from for modern electric music. He invented the electric guitar style almost in a vacuum! Guys like Van Halen have more technical skills but they had the originators like Hendrix and Blackmore as a template. My personal favorite is Jimmy Page but his strength is in his musical taste more than in the fingers. And of course, I like myself as well! LOL
Most over rated guitarists: Clapton, Slash, Nugent, Stevie Ray Vaughn. All good players but nothing special.
Most under rated guitarists: Blackmore, Rick Neilson, Randy Rhodes. Three innovators that influenced many of the top players who followed.
Hope this helps.
I have also read more than once that Zeppelin just regurgitated old blues riffs note for note. I know practically all music is derivative of what came before (Hendrix excepted as rockstar mentioned) so I try not to overthink it and just enjoy. Full disclosure...absolutely no musical ability other than the ability to press play and I am an old fart who knows what he likes.
Keith Moon, John Bonham, Neil Pert and Ginger Baker (with Cream) are a pretty solid top group. I put Moon above the rest because of personal taste. Lars Ulrich is also one of the best; like Moon he 'plays the song' as opposed to just keeping the rhythm. But drummers is a bad category as it's not every drummer's job to be all over the place like Moon. Ringo was a pedantic drummer but the perfect guy for The Beatles. Same with Watts. So it's unfair to single out the speed guys as the "best".
What do you call a guy who likes to hang around with musicians? A drummer.
Surprised nobody has mentioned Phil Collins in the drummer discussion
He's one of my personal favs and I don't think it's far fetched to say he was one of the best
As magicrat stated: I know what I like and I know what I don't like.
When it comes to drummers my favourite is Joe Morello of The Dave Brubeck Quartet. Check out his work on Castilian Drums.
My guess is that jerkoffson is at least 60 years old, minimum.
Now you guys are just getting personal!
But Van Halen with Sammy was fucking awesome too.
Bassist-I don't know if he's the greatest but I love me some Flea.
Guitarist-Most underrated guitarist of all-time is Ernie Isley. Don't forget, Hendrix stayed with the Isley Brothers.
@Rockstar-I have an eclectic collection of kids-cartoon books and one of them is about Kieth Moon. Forgot the title, though.
Steve Morse-Dixie Dreggs and Deep Purple
Uli Roth- Early Scorpions
"Buck Dharma" Roeser- Blue Oyster Cult
Steve Hillage- himself
Rory Gallagher
Clapton was very influential with Cream and if he had carried on would make the top of my list. However, if you look at his entire body of his work, there's not a lot there. He didn't even play the signature solo on Layla! Clapton and Slash have a lot in common in that they are worshipped by their fans but music today would sound the same without them. Not so for the greats I mentioned in my previous post.
I said SRV is overrated mostly because he sounds a lot like me when I jam that style of blues! Anyone who sounds like me can't be all that good! LOL No, seriously, he's a good player and very popular, but guys like Johnny Winter (who plays a similar style) are rated higher by me than SRV. Winter had those fingers, and blazing speed without the sterility of your usual fast player. Kenny Wayne Shepard is what SRV would have dreamed he could be.
SRV is the Buck Dharma of blues: the best garage band guitarist ever. They both play cliché licks over, and over, and over. Compare their live playing to say Jimmy Page or EVH: those guys CREATED the signature licks everyone else copies. No one copies SRV...what's to copy?
Shout out to Steve Morse (sorry Mikey we disagree on Dharma)and Rory Gallagher, although Gallagher was nothing special lots of people (myself included) stole a lot of his style.
Berry is an icon and should have made the underrated list...although he's rated pretty high. He's an equal to Page, Blackmore, Beck, Van Halen, etc.
I would kill for a Keith Moon cartoon book!!!!! That's just sick.
Me and some mates have a garage band. We just do it for the women who are suckers for musicians. Here’s a bit we put on youtube. What do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNVIp0IW…
But it likely would be filled with songs from the Stone's, Zep, The Beatles, The Doors, AC/DC or The Who.
People never agree on HOW they will evaluate. Usually it's either "because I like them" or "they're technically really good" or "well they sold a lot of records" or some such stuff.
Here are the correct criteria for evaluation:
1. Technical skills
2 Innovation, in a good way
3. They have something to say with their music; it moves people
4. Their music lasts over generations
Now, is the fact that a lot of people copy someone's music part of the evaluation? Well, yeah, I suppose, but people also copy crap too.
Example:
Hendrix gets a 10 in innovation. Hell, he gets a 20. No question. But does anyone listen to "Purple Haze" for the last 30 years? No. Because it was shit. At the time, it was awesome. And everyone copied Hendrix, because he was the greatest guitar innovator ever. But overall, is he the greatest because of that? No.
The greatest is the one who has it all. Not perfect in any one area, but overall the best.
Stevie Ray was the best in blues. He had an awesome voice. He had very good guitar skills. He had a lot to "say" with his music. He had a great sound. He'd sit down with some of the blues masters and jam, and they'd just look at him in awe, and sound like shit compared to him.
Now, is "because I like them" grounds for voting someone the best? Hell no. Because you like the Beatles, does that make them the best? No. Technically, a lot of what they did sucked. Great innovators for their style, for that era.
Now, one more thing. It's not fair to mention guys like Buddy Rich in this thread. They're not rockers. Although guys like him are the without a doubt the best for their type of music (jazz, whatever).
Personally, I don't think Clapton was very skilled at all. And he didn't have the blues "feel" that someone like SRV did. If you look back now at what Clapton produced, does it last? In hindsight it looks pretty boring, IMO. Very boring.
"White men can't dance".
Now, I'm a white guy, but I admit that white guys in general have no soul, no rhythm, no funk. That's a fact. And the black guys know exactly what I'm talking about. We can't dance cuz we don't have rhythm.
Of course, thank god, there are exceptions, and we have such incredible musicians who happen to be white. But when evaluating music, you have to keep in mind that many white guys only know what they like. And that includes country music and shit, and line dancing, which all should be outlawed.
So before the white guys start evaluating music, keep that in mind. :)
But here's the difference. Spirit sucked, and they turned that song into nothing. Zeppelin turned it into the greatest rock song of all time. That's because Zeppelin was the best, and Spirit sucked. Though I did like Sardonicus, and they had some good stuff for the time, but otherwise nobody even remembers them.
Every musician copies everyone else. It's a good thing.
100% Agree, thank god no one said KISS that band sucked a bag of dicks
Have you considered seeking counseling? Seriously.
2 Innovation, in a good way
3. They have something to say with their music; it moves people
4. Their music lasts over generations
Van Halen has 1 and 2 no where near close to having anything with 3 and 4.
The Clash may not have had technical skills but they get full marks in 2,3, and 4.
That being said, the only rock is listen to is Maroon 5, so I'm gonna have to go with them!
Dude, seriously, accept that you're one of us white guys who can't dance, and have no sense of rhythm whatsoever.
And to say that technical skills don't matter means your only evaluation is the "I like them, therefore they're great". And that doesn't apply. We're trying to make an objective assessment, not your personal likes and dislikes.
Look online, and find a recording of Miss Etta James singing "At Last". Listen to it, and if it doesn't give you chills, and smack you up'side the head and leave you dizzy, then yes, you are a white guy with no rhythm or soul whatsoever.
When I was in college just outside New York City, we listened to Allison Steele, "The Night Bird", who used "Nights in White Satin" as the theme song for her WNEW show.
Absolutely. Moody Blues where incredibly innovative, incredibly talented musicians (well, most of them), and they had a lot to say musically that is timeless.
I guess I didn't care much for whatever the radio DJ was playing. That was before Internet downloads. I didn't want to spend money on CD's for a while.
Zappa was beyond innovation. At least in his own mind. He was apparently very talented according to some people. And I loved listening to his moronic, off the cuff stuff from "Just Another Band from LA". Basically a garage band making up goofy shit to entertain themselves.
But that's why I included 4 criteria. Zappa was innovative, but he ultimately produced shit. Does anyone on the planet remember anything he produced? Is it timeless? At the time most people thought it sucked, which it did. Just because you produce weird complicated shit doesn't mean its good.
Kind of like the people who claim that Andy Warhol's stuff was brilliant, only because they want to sound cool and hip. It was, and always will be, shit.
That's my point. Innovative alone means nothing. Zappa is a perfect example.
Eddie, are you kidding?
2 Innovation, in a good way
3. They have something to say with their music; it moves people
4. Their music lasts over generations
so based on the above criteria the best rock bands in history in my attempt to cover every aspect from 1-4:
-led zeppelin-page was very very good w/his fingers from 1968-73, a master technician albeit sloppy, and bonzo was the jimmy page of drummers.
-the police
-rolling stones
-early metallica-up until the black album
-Hendrix-the babe ruth of guitarists-btw, purple haze does NOT suck, tune that whoever said it sucks probably is just sick and tired of hearing it.
-queen
-red hot chili peppers
And I read an article saying that early this year Spirit decided to sue Zepplin for copying their song. Go no, right?
Slick sez: "Best keyboardist-Ray Manzarek."
Mikey replies: "..but what about Kieth Emerson, Jon Lord, and Rick Wakeman?"
Okay, I'll admit I'm not a keyboards guy, and never really pay much attention to them, but Ray Mazarek was with the Doors right? I always felt that the Doors' keyboard stuff was like super simple and uninteresting. Though I was never a Doors fan, so I could be way off.
But like Mikey says, compare that to Wakeman and Yes? I mean, the entire Yes group were rock legends. Incredibly talented, innovative, and have to be in at least the top 10 of rock groups of all time. And geez, Keith Emerson of EL&P? that's some insane keyboards.
But Manzarek? I dunno. And their guitar player, Robby Kreiger? I suppose you can call him a good songwriter, but a great guitar player? I dunno. I'm not seeing it.
Okay, well at least top 5. Daltrey was one of the greatest vocalists, no doubt. And of course Keith Moon was insanely good. And just plain insane. Possibly the greatest, I agree. Townsend was an incredible songwriter, insanely innovative. And their sound was legendary.
So yeah, can't argue that the Who was right up there.
But has anyone noticed that in all of this discussion of the greatest groups, it's all (or mostly) from the 80's or earlier? Personally, I think music now is just this commercial crap, scientifically designed to absolutely maximize revenue with no waste whatsoever. You think you could ever get away with "Stairway to Heaven" nowadays, or "Tommy"? No way. They want a 3 minute song with a catchy hook that makes all the young girls get up and dance.
1. Technical skills
2 Innovation, in a good way
3. They have something to say with their music; it moves people
4. Their music lasts over generations
The above is a really excellent criteria to judge bands by; I'm surprised to read such incisive thinking on music in this group! It's funny to me that bands like The Ramones get mentioned because they were terrible from a technical standpoint, didn't innovate a thing yet they moved a lot of people. My college band opened for them and I wasn't a fan, but it struck me how rabid the audience was for their brand of noise. I learned a lot that night.
And I agree that anyone who thinks Zeppelin, The Beatles and the Stones are overrated really have no business commenting in this thread. I was never a big Stones fan but I'm well aware of their brand of genius.
SRV...he still sounds like endless noodling to me, and I do stand behind my comment that no one steals his licks because he doesn't have anything original to steal.
Beck is a guitar god but he is so un-commercial it's hard to figure out where he stands.
Btw, when you were young, what made you want to play electric guitar?
For me, it was that guitar in "Love is Strange" by Mickey and Silvia,
"Wipeout" by the Surfaris, and stuff by the Ventures.
Your name fits you
Your comments have been very smart and helpful. You must truly understand music.
Me -- I just know what sounds good to me
Soundgarden is my favorite of the "grunge" era bands. They are really good musicians and Chris Cornell can actually sing.
The whole Syd Barrett era was a lot of crap. And in the 70s after Syd went into drug induced insanity they just drifted for years not knowing what to do. They finally did some brilliance, but I cant see them in the list of greats. Too much mindless psychedelic noodling for most of their career
The Dark Side of the Moon is one of the best albums ever -- top 10????
But other than that???
I will admit they did not have very many catchy hit singles.
While popularity is important (which is why one of my criteria is that the music "moves" people), you can be extremely popular but suck. The world is filled with stuff that is extremely popular, but it still sucks, from an objective point of view.
From TV, to food, to music, to anything. Popularity and quality are often completely separate.
If you want to judge solely on album sales, then fine. That's popularity. That's not overall greatness.
When I Googled best selling albums of all time, there are names such as Britney Spears, Celine Dionne, Alannis Morrisette, and Norah Jones on the list.
uh say what? wish you were here and the wall, most fans of rock would not consider both of those albums just merely good. animals and the final cut both did suck though.
Cab Driver: Fuck you man! You don't like my fucking music, get your own fucking cab!
The Dude: I've had a...
Cab Driver: I pull over and kick your ass out, man!
The Dude: ...had a rough night, and I hate the fucking Eagles, man
I hear ya'...but WHY? Why do people say the Beatles and the Stones were the greatest?
Yeah, no doubt they were insanely popular. And no doubt their music is timeless. Everyone will always know who the Beatles and the Stones are.
But does that mean they were GREAT? Many think it's pretty obvious because they were so popular. But if you look a little deeper, in the grand scheme of things, were they truly great? Or just right place at the right time with the right formula?
As individuals were they the greatest in their field? If their same songs had been produced by some unknown group from Podunk, Iowa, would they become great hit singles of their time? How much of their "greatness" is implied from their popularity? People tend to get this attitude that if a group is popular, then from then on their shit don't stink. And they quickly forgive stuff like "I am the Walrus", and call it awesome.
Honestly, in the cold light of day, how much of the Beatles stuff was just crap, that became "great" because, well, it was the Beatles.
Absolutely they belong in a class by themselves. Very innovative, loved by millions, timeless music. But certainly not rock greats, and certainly not the greatest individual performers in their field. Come on, Charlie Watts and Ringo Starr?
And you're gonna call the Stones innovative? They just copied the old blues masters with some very basic stuff. But compared to Zeppelin innovative? Really?
Personally, I think they both deserve a special honor for most loved pop (Beatles) or rock (Stones) groups, and Beatles for most innovative of their day maybe, but I think objectively you need to think twice before over-rating them both.
Damn, Britney was so fucking hot when she was in her prime before she went all loco and shit. When she wore that almost see-thru glitter body stocking in that video? Holy crap. And that schoolgirl outfit? Sonuvabitch that's hot.
And I just LOVE Norah Jones' voice. Damn. Too bad she's stuck with that country music shit. When she sings stuff like "Come Away with Me", makes me melt into a pool of warm jelly. And she's kinda cute too. I'd do her. I was totally shocked when I found out she's Ravi Shankar's daughter. Y'know the sitar guy from the 60's or whatever from India? No shit, I'm not kidding. Go no, right?
Disclaimer the Beatles are not my favorite band no where near close, but you don't get considered by basically everyone to be the greatest rock band of all time by accident. I guess you can go with your whole pop over rock argument. But they are the same thing during the what 7 years they existed. Google why they are the most successful band of all time and they were revolutionary, and innovative.
Here's 10 reason's why they may be considered the greatest band of all time. http://rycehat.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/…
Here is 20 more: http://www.hooksandharmony.com/20-reason…
and maybe the best rock band ever was some group from Iowa, but if no one never heard them then it doesn't matter does it since its a moot point. I also said I don't care about record sales, but the Beatles sold over a Billion albums which is fucking nuts.
as far as the top 4 best rock bands are the big 3 will ALWAYS be the beatles, stones, and zep. so the biggest debate is actually who comes in at the #4 position. more likely than not it'll be a band that's british. the who, Floyd, Sabbath, deep purple (everybody who's picked up an electric guitar always wants to learn smoke on the water first), etc...
so in front of me and these 2 good looking blonde sisters the geezer holds the mag w/2 hands, makes a lecherous face, then kisses the front cover and then takes the mag and starts rubbing it onto his crotch back and forth. I'm laughing so fucking hard the 2 sisters are giving me this look of horror and not the geezer. I'm thinking, "wtf?" they should be giving that look to the geezer, not me.
come back to the lapddance joint the week after and one those 2 sisters says to the other "oh and here come in both of those sickos." what could I do? I just waved my hands to them and said "hi." one of them would eventually empty my load onto my pants an hour or 2 later.
That's an excellent point. I never looked at it that way. One can debate the order of the top 3, but that's about all.
You are right the *REAL* question is who else makes the Mount Rushmore of Rock.
Maybe Lita Ford....Joan Jett?....Pat Benatar?
The piece he did in conjunction with a current artist about four years ago - I heard that piece for the first time and thought, "That sounds like Carlos Santana!"
Under the same criteria I don't think you can call the Beatles overrated.
If a female singer is being debated and Aretha Franklin, Nina Simone, and Celia Cruz don't come up, I'm just plain disappointed.
Isn't that like saying "best female comedienne"?
What's the word? oxymoron?
And I realize many of the Motown acts have been inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame. So maybe I'm wrong.
@Jerickson... To give you a perspective on what I and others think....
Hall and Oates got elected to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame..!!!!!
They sucked ass...no comparison to any female named here.
Actually I'm just kidding. But hell, if we go off into every decent group and musician in every class of music for the last 80 years, this thread will be limping along for another 10 years.
Though I really liked a lot of their stuff. Surprising run of big hits. Certainly not near being great, but gotta give them props.
Fucking hilarious...
Who else could turn it up to eleven?