If you are, when I die there will be only oblivion, and it won't make a bit of difference to me.
If I'm right, you are in for one heck of a surprise!
No serious Biblical scholar believes the 4000 to 6000 bs. None of us deny the dinosaurs or the immensity of the universe either. Read as an allegory, and recognizing the limited scientific knowledge of the audience of the time, the Genesis account is actually not a bad approximation of history after the Big Bang. To me the interesting question is where did all that matter come from in the first place? Aristotle called God the unmoved mover. Where did God come from? Frankly, it beats me. Must one of those mysteries that may someday be revealed.
You're only half way right Alucard. You see you are really all figments of my imagination in a dream of mine. Thousands of eons ago I got really really bored. I could see all possible outcomes of everything I could possibly do in all different parallel universes and knew the outcome of every possible action of every single thing that could and would happen throughout time in the entire universe. This one plus an infinity of others. Then I had an idea, create a bunch of entertainers that think they have free will. They will in one way. I gave them a path to choose which reality they go into. If they kill others, they go down a dark path that may not make them very happy. In that case, there is a fellow that will help them along later on and he likes to inflict pain and punishment after he has them. Everyone gets him if they don't like a happier place.
In the case of others, they can deny all they want. In my dream I'm on vacation. I denied all my powers and became human and then I woke up in bed. One thing I was wondering about is if the AI I left in charge was going to screw things up by reading my thoughts. Just because I thought about polar vortexes and The Day After Tomorrow doesn't mean it has to happen in the next week. I mean what happened to Europe? They are not freezing to death. Somethings wrong with this picture here.
If you really believe nothing can become everything in the universe and that there is nothing mysterious about that, go ahead and keep believing whatever form of reality you want to. That is what the current scientific theory is. Makes sense doesn't it? Plus they say about 98 percent of the matter in the universe is missing. That tells me they know where 2 percent of the universe is located and they can see it. hmmm, someone needs more information.
^^^ The info is there to find and read & view. You may not wish to find, read or view it. And you may not have an understanding of it. Believe what you wish. Or expand your understanding.
All of our atoms were created inside stars and supernovas except for possibly hydrogen. From dust we came and onto dust we shall be one day or our bodies will. I heard one guy took what was left of his son's ashes and paid to have them made into a diamond. I hope for his sake nobody steals the diamond or he will be devastated.
So you believe a divine being can not create everything from nothing? That is not the current scientific theory. The Big Bang is the current scientific theory. If you believe we are all accidents, then there might be a lot of other Alucards out there on some other planet. Scary thought isn't it?
A divine being does not need to micromanage every single eon of existence. If mankind were not allowed to develop on our own, then the argument could be made we could all be left alone to manage ourselves just fine. Obviously we would need firearms or something more destructive to do that.
Alucard, there is precisely as much evidence that God does *not* exist as their is that he *does*, i.e. none at all.
To state that "God doesn't exist" with no evidence is just as "faithful" as the claim that he/she/it does, so your statement that it's just the flip side of the same coin is, somewhat ironically, completely true, though I doubt that's how you intended it.
I'll reserve judgement until such time as convincing evidence presents itself. If God does exist, He created me that way, so I'm sure he'll either provide such evidence at some point, or forgive me for acting according to the nature with which he created me. If He doesn't, then he's not really *worth* worshiping, is he?
I appreciate you commenting on my Hindu-Vedic thought. Have you read the Hindu-Vedic books that I suggested to you, back in the summer?
I've always been kind to you, Al. You should take the time to read those books. I've read Dawkins, Sagan, Feynmen, and Hawking. They give no answers at all.
You should be old enough to remember Alan Watts. Look him up and listen. No mushrooms needed.
Al, have you read or listened to anything that I brought up? I've never argued against the Big Bang Theory. I've never argued against stardust. I agree with science. Science doesn't answer everything.
I don't know if there is a God or not. But isn't it posdibke that God used the Big Bang as the mechanism to create the Universe. Not mutually exclusive. Same holds for evolution.
Alucard-If you truly wished to dismiss those who rally against your scientific positions, why don't you argue against Judeo-Christianity based on etymology, translation, and transliteration?
Or
Why does there have to be a god?
Why does there have to be a primal instigator/thought/transaction,etc?
Cosmology, i.e. how the universe came to be, and evolution, i.e. how it, and life specifically, progressed from there to it's current state, are separate. Neither "Big Bang" (or any other non-creationist explanation) nor creationism prove or disprove evolution.
It's alright. I like you no matter what Al. It's not my fault that you have me on ignore because you're racist against Latinos. Seriously, I'm on ignore because I'm a Spic!
I do like the thought that almost every single atom in my body other than hydrogen was once fused together inside a star or supernova at several million degrees Fahrenheit. I figure for atoms like iron and heavier ones, those were created on a supernova. I figure to create the very first stars it took maybe 5 to 7 billion years and then it took either a super massive star or another generation of stars for one to go supernova and fuse all of our heavier elements. That could have taken another 5 to 7 billion years. Then they say our galaxy and star system is already 5 billion years old so that does not leave a lot of spare time as far as star cycles go if our universe is only 15 billion years old.
However I read the other day scientists estimated there are at least 8 billion Earth size planets in the habital goldilocks zone around other stars in this galaxy alone and there are billions of galaxies. There might be another Alucard out there.
Reminds me of a dream where our entire universe was like an atom which was part of a banana sitting on a table in a universe so massive, we were that small.
@shark -- my impression is that current theory suggests the earliest stars were on average very massive, moving to supernova in a short period of time and building up heavy elements quite rapidly. So amounts of metals (as astronomers define them anything other than H or He) built up fast.
So we've had plenty of time for two Alucards evolve. Alternative Alucard has 7 tentacles and is able to breath a mixture of CO and O2 and he digs BBTIFO (bare back tentacle in feeding oriface) from hot heptapods with red-pigmented filaments on their integument. He's a pretty cool heptapod, but he is constantly gettin' trashed by heptapod Dougsta...
There's also a heptaDallas that is really into slug throwers. HeptaDallas is also convinced that the unusually pigmented Leaderpod that sits in the square office of the Lavender house is a socialist. But the Leaderpod is actually in the pocket of their Ceiling Street, where heptapods interested in various aspects of finance work.
With over 8 billion planets that could support life, that leaves everyone on our planet with at least one planet to themselves.
Alucard could name his planet something like Planet Alucard. Everyone who came to visit could say this is a godforsaken planet and Alucard could be happy.
If you inspect your own planet, I suggest bringing a gun and weapons. There could be hostile life that doesn't care if you say it's your planet.
I'd give Alucard the planet with the aliens from the Predator movie. He might be safe without a gun. It might be hard to eat without killing something. I never tried to kill something to eat without a gun or weapon so I'll wish Alucard luck.
Zip, I think I had an unusual dream with some octopus like intelligent aliens one time. Alternative Alucard could have tentacles.
On the one hand if some of the early stars went supernova after only 7 billion years creating iron and heavier elements for life as we know it and it took only a couple billion years for a new star system to develop an Earth like planet from the supernova dust, then there could have been an alternative Alucard and zip man over 6 billion years ago, one billion years before our solar system even formed.
I think there is more intelligent life here than I hear in church. My priest keeps saying stars don't move and doesn't seem to understand how a star can rise in the east. I thought about standing up and shouting, the Earth rotates so stars appear to move. Plus they do move. They are just so far away they appear to stay in the same position relative to each other from our location. It takes thousands of years to notice changes in star positions in the star constellations. Just another stupid priest misinforming the masses about something he doesn't seem to know jack about. The North star is the only star in the northern hemisphere that doesn't appear to move in our night sky.
Actually what amazes me is that God was so patient in his creation! I guess a million years isn't much in the life of an eternal being. How many other worlds are out there with sentient beings? Hopefully, they have done better than we have. Sorry, AL. These are my beliefs.
Of course some things I don't say. I just wonder how many others think our priest is talking stupid talking about a subject he either doesn't understand or does a really poor job of talking about it? I'm killing time rambling.
I heard millions of years ago, some of the dinosaurs were actually very intelligent. Star Trek had an episode where one species left Earth and captured the Enterprise. The crew's technology was no match for the former dinosaur species millions of years old. However true to being a dinosaur, they had the dinosaurs much more slow to change than us humans. The dinos just had a few million years head start.
"I don't know if there is a God or not. But isn't it [possible] that God used the Big Bang as the mechanism to create the Universe. Not mutually exclusive. Same holds for evolution. "
Definitely holds true for the "Let there be light" verse (Genesis 1:3) :)
So within about 100-250 million years hyper massive stars would form and rapidly undergo supernovas, creating the heavy elements. So it didn't thak 5 or so billion years for the first stars to go supernova and create heavy elements. There were appreciable heavy elements less than 250-275 million years after the Big Bang.
I have a vague memory of reading an expansion of these ideas suggestion that fewer stars greater than 140 stellar masses were formed than the link above suggests. But the models robustly predict very massive stars, be they only 100 or so solar masses or more like 300-1000 solar masses. Note that the lifespan of a 100-ish solar mass star (spectral class O) is only 5-7 million (NOT billion) years.
The stardust got made very early my friends. Pretty damn coo-el if you ask me!
Zip, Alucard, amuse me. Did not the same stardust enrich the other planets in our solar system? Not a shred of life! You don't think the make-up of our special planet and our own Sun have more to do with life?
And the Big Bang? We don't know how or why it happened. Why is a better question.
So for the last time Alucard, no MAN knows the mystery of Creation, one would have to be a god. Btw, Einstien acknowledged that a creator gave purpose to the universe
There has to be a deity, but it's not the deity of the Bible. The reason the universe isn't "nothing" is because Heisenberg in part doesn't allow for nothing. Even in a net zero sum universe like ours, we have quantum fluctuations that allows a universe to exist.
Without a deity, there would be no Heisenberg and no reality. What I don't understand is why some religions worship their deity? What kind of fucked up mind thinks gods want to be worshipped? Deities aren't even sentient!
There has been a newer theory popping up - we exist in a simulation device. Those ghosts, demons, angels - hell, Big Foot - they are entities outside the simulation popping in.
Same goes for aliens... maybe they are all kids outside the simulation looking to fuck with the life within the goldfish bowl?
@Alucard: "Sounds like the membership DOESN'T believe it if it isn't in the Bible or if I say IT"
Not at all. I just don't believe if it you can't fucking *prove* it. You can no more prove your position than the religious can prove theirs. *That* is why I don't believe you.
I'm a big believer in parallel universes myself. Beyond Everett's interpretation too.
I remember discussing the subject with a colleague at work a few years back and we had the idea that maybe it goes way beyond parallel universes to parallel universes where the laws of physics are difficult. Turns out we bumped into a cosmologist who was advancing exactly such a theory. (Can't remember the name at the moment? Does anybody know. Max Tegmark?)
And then, even beyond universe with different laws of physics, to universes with different sets of mathematical axioms (e.g. in some universes the axiom of choice is valid while in others it is not).
So I think all this exists with the need for a deity, but, given that anything can happen, there probably do exist "universes" within this massive manifold that have deity like beings and are not aware that they are just one small bit of the entire manifold.)
Parallel universes are kind of cool. I can go to the same strip club and it's like almost all the girls are different but in some ways they look the same. One girl never got a boob job. Another dancer told me the same thing she told me the previous week. That is that it had been 2 years since she last saw me. Hey, I'm not sure what universe I'm going to pop into.
Sometimes girls I never saw before act like we were long lost lovers and other times, girls I remember don't remember me at all. When I tell then things about their lives, they say stuff like they must have been really drunk that night. haha.
I have to admit running into a dancer one year after she got a boob job and then seeing her without it a few months later and acting all shy again like she used to be before she had her boob job, weird. Seeing no sign of any implants, even weirder.
If someone tells me this is Planet Alucard instead of Earth. I think I might start saying there is no God on Planet Alucard. No god, no guns, and possibly no women, a truly god forsaken planet, lol.
I'd really like to visit the planet with all pretty ladies again. I felt like I was in a nonstop beer commercial. Too bad I woke up. Only downside was that they had no censors and they didn't have any clue when I said they were making a porn movie. If that planet was real and just a few million made it here, forget strip clubs. Every single guy would get more sex than he wanted. Strip clubs would go out of business. I escaped. I got a message they were coming as soon as they figure out how to get here. Sorry guys. lol, actually it would be Earth girls who would be upset.
Just imagine ufo's show up all over the planet. Then we find out they come from a planet full of hot females and they all want to mate. Interesting times. I'd tell them to stay away from planet Alucard.
Either side of the question as to the existence or not of a Deity/God is going to be argued. Neither side has Complete and Totally undeniable proof. So it boils down to personal belief and opinion.
My belief and opinion as to the ABSENCE of the existence of a Deity/God flows from my knowledge of the beginning of the Universe 13.5+ Billion yrs ago, and the processes that have been at work ever since to create the Universe that now exists and the Elements and processes that went into the establishment of Carbon & water based life in our "Goldilocks Zone" here on Earth. I don't have to PROVE this to anyone. It is long and well established proven scientific FACT.
Watch all the episodes in the "Universe" series. It provides some good solid information for those whose background in Astronomy and the associated sciences is LACKING for any reason.
Sharkhunter my man, to be fair to Alucard, there is direct evidence for extremophiles on the Earth -- you can go to extreme hot springs, geothermal vents on the bottom of the ocean, highly alkaline or acidic lakes, etc. and isolate organisms that grow, isolate DNA, and find other direct lines of evidence that extremophilic life does indeed exist. So "belief" in is not really a belief unless you consider all sorts of other things for which there is direct evidence (e.g., radioactivity, atoms, relativity, etc.) things that you believe in. So I consider the statement "extremophiles exist" to be a fact, not a belief.
In contrast, being for or against gun control is a philosophical and/or ethical position. so a belief. And there is no actual evidence for a deity, so that is a belief. Moreover, the definition of God(s) is so fuzzy -- different people believe in different gods -- that there really can't be evidence against God(s).
If you believe in God and that motivates you to do good things, fine... But don't tell anybody else what to believe and expect them to follow along. That's what they do in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
78 comments
Latest
But I won't be shy about sayin' I'm an atheist either. Rock on bro! Qapla'
They claimed "scientific" proof for the earth being only 6000 years old and other funny shit.
"And you don't think that an all powerful God could use those things to build His creation?"
ABSOLUTELY NOT Sir!
So God said "let there be Hoyle" and told him to make the heavy elements however he pleased!
Fuck yeah!!!
And notice how all knowing Alucard is. "I don't believe in God" isn't good enough for him.
It is NO different than those who ABSOLUTELY claim that there is a Deity/God. Just the flip side of the coin.
NO ONE creates Supernovas. It is the death of a very large fast burning Star. [Put as SIMPLY as possible]
NO ONE.
Stars are born of Hydrogen, dust & gravity & EXTREMELY high temps.
NO Deity/God involved.
If you are, when I die there will be only oblivion, and it won't make a bit of difference to me.
If I'm right, you are in for one heck of a surprise!
No serious Biblical scholar believes the 4000 to 6000 bs. None of us deny the dinosaurs or the immensity of the universe either. Read as an allegory, and recognizing the limited scientific knowledge of the audience of the time, the Genesis account is actually not a bad approximation of history after the Big Bang. To me the interesting question is where did all that matter come from in the first place? Aristotle called God the unmoved mover. Where did God come from? Frankly, it beats me. Must one of those mysteries that may someday be revealed.
In the case of others, they can deny all they want. In my dream I'm on vacation. I denied all my powers and became human and then I woke up in bed. One thing I was wondering about is if the AI I left in charge was going to screw things up by reading my thoughts. Just because I thought about polar vortexes and The Day After Tomorrow doesn't mean it has to happen in the next week. I mean what happened to Europe? They are not freezing to death. Somethings wrong with this picture here.
If you really believe nothing can become everything in the universe and that there is nothing mysterious about that, go ahead and keep believing whatever form of reality you want to. That is what the current scientific theory is. Makes sense doesn't it? Plus they say about 98 percent of the matter in the universe is missing. That tells me they know where 2 percent of the universe is located and they can see it. hmmm, someone needs more information.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/gr…
A divine being does not need to micromanage every single eon of existence. If mankind were not allowed to develop on our own, then the argument could be made we could all be left alone to manage ourselves just fine. Obviously we would need firearms or something more destructive to do that.
To state that "God doesn't exist" with no evidence is just as "faithful" as the claim that he/she/it does, so your statement that it's just the flip side of the same coin is, somewhat ironically, completely true, though I doubt that's how you intended it.
I'll reserve judgement until such time as convincing evidence presents itself. If God does exist, He created me that way, so I'm sure he'll either provide such evidence at some point, or forgive me for acting according to the nature with which he created me. If He doesn't, then he's not really *worth* worshiping, is he?
NO illusions. Scientific Reality.
I've always been kind to you, Al. You should take the time to read those books. I've read Dawkins, Sagan, Feynmen, and Hawking. They give no answers at all.
You should be old enough to remember Alan Watts. Look him up and listen. No mushrooms needed.
Or
Why does there have to be a god?
Why does there have to be a primal instigator/thought/transaction,etc?
It's alright. I like you no matter what Al. It's not my fault that you have me on ignore because you're racist against Latinos. Seriously, I'm on ignore because I'm a Spic!
I realize that. I phrased it poorly. I wasn't trying to tie the two together. I just used both as examples of being the "mechanism".
Read it !
However I read the other day scientists estimated there are at least 8 billion Earth size planets in the habital goldilocks zone around other stars in this galaxy alone and there are billions of galaxies. There might be another Alucard out there.
Reminds me of a dream where our entire universe was like an atom which was part of a banana sitting on a table in a universe so massive, we were that small.
So we've had plenty of time for two Alucards evolve. Alternative Alucard has 7 tentacles and is able to breath a mixture of CO and O2 and he digs BBTIFO (bare back tentacle in feeding oriface) from hot heptapods with red-pigmented filaments on their integument. He's a pretty cool heptapod, but he is constantly gettin' trashed by heptapod Dougsta...
There's also a heptaDallas that is really into slug throwers. HeptaDallas is also convinced that the unusually pigmented Leaderpod that sits in the square office of the Lavender house is a socialist. But the Leaderpod is actually in the pocket of their Ceiling Street, where heptapods interested in various aspects of finance work.
Totally different from the Earth.
Alucard could name his planet something like Planet Alucard. Everyone who came to visit could say this is a godforsaken planet and Alucard could be happy.
If you inspect your own planet, I suggest bringing a gun and weapons. There could be hostile life that doesn't care if you say it's your planet.
I'd give Alucard the planet with the aliens from the Predator movie. He might be safe without a gun. It might be hard to eat without killing something. I never tried to kill something to eat without a gun or weapon so I'll wish Alucard luck.
On the one hand if some of the early stars went supernova after only 7 billion years creating iron and heavier elements for life as we know it and it took only a couple billion years for a new star system to develop an Earth like planet from the supernova dust, then there could have been an alternative Alucard and zip man over 6 billion years ago, one billion years before our solar system even formed.
I think there is more intelligent life here than I hear in church. My priest keeps saying stars don't move and doesn't seem to understand how a star can rise in the east. I thought about standing up and shouting, the Earth rotates so stars appear to move. Plus they do move. They are just so far away they appear to stay in the same position relative to each other from our location. It takes thousands of years to notice changes in star positions in the star constellations. Just another stupid priest misinforming the masses about something he doesn't seem to know jack about. The North star is the only star in the northern hemisphere that doesn't appear to move in our night sky.
Definitely holds true for the "Let there be light" verse (Genesis 1:3) :)
In my reply to sharkhunter I mentioned that early stars had a short lifespan. I would only have been a few million years.
The First Stars in the Universe: Scientific American
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i…
So within about 100-250 million years hyper massive stars would form and rapidly undergo supernovas, creating the heavy elements. So it didn't thak 5 or so billion years for the first stars to go supernova and create heavy elements. There were appreciable heavy elements less than 250-275 million years after the Big Bang.
I have a vague memory of reading an expansion of these ideas suggestion that fewer stars greater than 140 stellar masses were formed than the link above suggests. But the models robustly predict very massive stars, be they only 100 or so solar masses or more like 300-1000 solar masses. Note that the lifespan of a 100-ish solar mass star (spectral class O) is only 5-7 million (NOT billion) years.
The stardust got made very early my friends. Pretty damn coo-el if you ask me!
Too bad for them.
And the Big Bang? We don't know how or why it happened. Why is a better question.
Without a deity, there would be no Heisenberg and no reality. What I don't understand is why some religions worship their deity? What kind of fucked up mind thinks gods want to be worshipped? Deities aren't even sentient!
Same goes for aliens... maybe they are all kids outside the simulation looking to fuck with the life within the goldfish bowl?
Not at all. I just don't believe if it you can't fucking *prove* it. You can no more prove your position than the religious can prove theirs. *That* is why I don't believe you.
Juice Christ Saves
I remember discussing the subject with a colleague at work a few years back and we had the idea that maybe it goes way beyond parallel universes to parallel universes where the laws of physics are difficult. Turns out we bumped into a cosmologist who was advancing exactly such a theory. (Can't remember the name at the moment? Does anybody know. Max Tegmark?)
And then, even beyond universe with different laws of physics, to universes with different sets of mathematical axioms (e.g. in some universes the axiom of choice is valid while in others it is not).
So I think all this exists with the need for a deity, but, given that anything can happen, there probably do exist "universes" within this massive manifold that have deity like beings and are not aware that they are just one small bit of the entire manifold.)
Sometimes girls I never saw before act like we were long lost lovers and other times, girls I remember don't remember me at all. When I tell then things about their lives, they say stuff like they must have been really drunk that night. haha.
If someone tells me this is Planet Alucard instead of Earth. I think I might start saying there is no God on Planet Alucard. No god, no guns, and possibly no women, a truly god forsaken planet, lol.
I'd really like to visit the planet with all pretty ladies again. I felt like I was in a nonstop beer commercial. Too bad I woke up. Only downside was that they had no censors and they didn't have any clue when I said they were making a porn movie. If that planet was real and just a few million made it here, forget strip clubs. Every single guy would get more sex than he wanted. Strip clubs would go out of business. I escaped. I got a message they were coming as soon as they figure out how to get here. Sorry guys. lol, actually it would be Earth girls who would be upset.
Just imagine ufo's show up all over the planet. Then we find out they come from a planet full of hot females and they all want to mate. Interesting times. I'd tell them to stay away from planet Alucard.
Either side of the question as to the existence or not of a Deity/God is going to be argued. Neither side has Complete and Totally undeniable proof. So it boils down to personal belief and opinion.
My belief and opinion as to the ABSENCE of the existence of a Deity/God flows from my knowledge of the beginning of the Universe 13.5+ Billion yrs ago, and the processes that have been at work ever since to create the Universe that now exists and the Elements and processes that went into the establishment of Carbon & water based life in our "Goldilocks Zone" here on Earth. I don't have to PROVE this to anyone. It is long and well established proven scientific FACT.
Read.
Europe's ocean.
Darn auto correct!!!!!!!
In contrast, being for or against gun control is a philosophical and/or ethical position. so a belief. And there is no actual evidence for a deity, so that is a belief. Moreover, the definition of God(s) is so fuzzy -- different people believe in different gods -- that there really can't be evidence against God(s).
If you believe in God and that motivates you to do good things, fine... But don't tell anybody else what to believe and expect them to follow along. That's what they do in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
A just God would not create VILE CREATURES like them. They are worse than Zika virus, the flu, and bot flies all rolled into one.
So either God is an ASSHOLE or we are but stardust. I KNOW I am stardust, not the creation of an ASSHOLE. WHAT ARE YOU?
RIP good man. You have returned to the STARDUST!!!