How much do you spend for ATF to sit all shift with you?

"Sounds like selfish bastards"

That's your opinion.

When I have an ATF sit with me for a whole shift, it is HER decision. Plus I make multiple trips to the VIP with her. She's not chained to me. She's free to see other patrons. Based on feedback from the ATFs I've had, they make MORE $$$ sitting with me for a whole shift on afternoons.

@Alucard

1. Good for you.
2. A forum is all opinion
3. I'm really interested to know why would you want her to sit with you all shift and not sample other candies from the box of chocolates?

@randy77: I think your question's backward.

What Alucard says applies in my case as well. When I'm at clubs with regulars or ATF/sugar baby wanna-be's they'll hog my time until I leave. Not the other way round. So whatever amount gets spent depends on when I get bored, it's closing time, or run out cash (don't use credit cards in SCs no more). I bet that's true for most of us, the difference being when does run out of cash kick in. Occasionally I'll see a new hottie and ask my regular to take a break. Can't do that with all of them cause of potential drama. But most are nice about it, end up giving me an hour or two, then invariably come back to reclaim their ATM machine. In the stripper social hierarchy most newbies, with them stripper etiquette and all, will leave. In rare cases she'll put up resistance but I side with my regulars, so things don't escalate.

Last but not least: your question's one a 17-yr old might ask. Your thought process is all fucked up by them hormones. That's understandable inside SC but not outside.

@steve3003 Yea, I noticed how you guys that like to hog all the time with your ATF didn't answer a single question. Also, your answer shows you don't have any fucking balls, afraid of some potential drama. "Oh no. I can't talk to another stripper or my ATF will have my balls in a sling." Fucking pussy!

My ATF always sat with me while I was in the club. She would dance for a few other customers she knew, but no more than a couple. I rarely stayed more than 2-3 hours. Sometimes I gave her the price of a couple of dances.

@Clubber - certainly sounds reasonable, but some have expressed they have their ATF with them the whole time and I'm wondering why?

randy,

I don't think I've ever spent an entire shift in a club. If I was in a club for 5 hours, that would be unusual. That said the few hours I was with her, she stayed with me other than the few times she danced for other customers. I found out later one was becoming her bf. We knew of each other, but I only saw him in the club a couple of times. Even then she would sit with me. She eventually move in with him, but she was still dancing. She came to me with her troubles and when they split, there I was again. One of the few dumb things she has done in her life was pick him.

"I'm really interested to know why would you want her to sit with you all shift and not sample other candies from the box of chocolates"

I advocate the ATF system of doing things. I'm looking for 1 Top Notch provider. This gives me pretty much a guaranteed experience. I'm NOT interested in wasting my $$$ sampling a variety of dancers, unless I'm searching for a new Favored or ATF dancer. I'm not a 1 & done & out the door type either. I enjoy the company of an ATF and being "Touchy-Feely" with her for as long as possible. To each his own!

Selfish freakin' bastards.

The fact that they are staying with you for hours because you give them so much money is a clear indication you are just as I suspect, little pussies who just want that pretty stripper to like me, and I'll give her all my money if she'll be nice to me.

Get a freakin' life. Please. Other guys don't empty their wallets on these girls because they have a life and don't need to spend hours with these girls chit chatting and acting like she's your girlfriend.

Get a freakin' life. Guys go in there to have a little fun, get some laps, and get out. It's not social hour, ladies. Go out into the world and meet real women who might actually like you, and have a social life with them.

Geez, just unbelieveable. And you guys actually admit that you keep feeding them money, which is why they stay with you. Really, the term pathetic losers is so freakin' appropriate with you ladies.

Are you Fucking jealous jerikson40 because no dancer will spend a long time with you?? LMFAO

If you like variety, that's just fine, do your thing.

If you don't like the way I behave in a Club jerikson40, that is TOO FUCKING bad!!!

I'll never forget I was in a club, waiting for a hot girl who had gone to the VIP with one of her regulars, a guy who was 3 times her age. And of course he had her on lockdown while I was there.

And then I happened to look over into the VIP thru the smoky glass, and I saw them standing, I think they had just opened the glass door and were finished. And I see him wrap his arms around her and start ballroom dancing with her. Of course she had no clue what ballroom dancing even is, but this douchebag was making believe she was his girlfriend and she wanted to dance with him.

I almost threw up. Seriously.

Yeah, I get it. I'm an older guy too, and I know how nice it would be to have a hot young girl like me. But I also have what's called self respect. And that self respect (hopefully) stops me before I make a fool of myself, and keeps me from doing pathetic stuff.

You guys make excuse upon excuse trying to rationalize your lack of self respect. The girls know it's pathetic, everyone else knows it's pathetic, but you guys seem clueless.

Guys, seriously, man up, grow a pair, and maintain a little dignity and self respect.

That's good, Alucard. Attack when you don't like what someone says.

But here's the facts:

I'm usually in a club for maybe an hour, two tops. And it's two only if I really want some laps with a dancer who is either in the dressing room for hours, or locked up with some douchebag regular.

I don't want girls sitting and chatting with me. I'm twice their age, we have zip in common, and I'm not interested in BS'ing about some useless crap. I'm there to get some laps and get out. Like most guys. We go in to have a little fun and get out.

You're the pathetic one jerikson40. You club the way you want & I'll do my thing. What makes you think EVERYONE has to be like you, think like you, & club the way YOU DO? Your way is the ONLY way, HEH? NOT a Damned chance!!!

I'm not a whale but sometimes a dancer will stay with me for an hour or two. That is her decision. She's free to leave and dance for other customers if she wants.

I have seen whales who monopolize dancers for the whole evening, excluding me if I want a dance. Some of these whales, the dancers tell me, will spend $2000 or $3000 on them. The dancers stay with whales because they will make more money.

"let the girls make as much as they can."

Who says they aren't?

A dancer's "regular" represents a stream of income (from future visits). By estimating how long she can string him along and applying an appropriate discount rate to the amount he spends each visit, the financially inclined dancer can calculate the Present Value (PV) of her regular, which will likely be thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars.

You are there to "get some laps and get out," thus your PV<$40-$60

Ergo, the dancer is maximizing her income by ignoring you in favor of cultivating her regular.

Er, as I was saying...

You are there to "get some laps and get out," thus your PV<$40-$60

Ergo, the dancer is maximizing her income by ignoring you in favor of cultivating her regular.

Damnit!

You are there to "get some laps and get out," thus your PV is less than $40-$60

Ergo, the dancer is maximizing her income by ignoring you in favor of cultivating her regular.

(Boy, I need to stop drinking in the morning)

Let me see, jerikson40. Seems an "i" should be gone!

LOL! Jerikson has some very good points.

And alucard cannot get real women interested in him because he is a fuckin' whackjob! Never interacts with women except for strippers and is so wrapped up in that world that he can't tell the difference between whores and real women. It's all he can get. No other options for him. Yes, it's completely pathetic, but that's what he is.

Now despite all that, at the end of the day it's the whore's decision how she allocates her time. They are big girls. They should be able to resist "pressure" from whales/PLs/RILs just like we have to be able to resist "pressure" SS/etc from their side.

I don't stay for an entire shift, but when I'm at the club and I want my favorite to stay with me, I pay her hourly so she won't lose any money.

I visit clubs for entertainment and sample dances from several dancers. I don't want a dancer hanging out with me no matter how often I see her in the club. I want them to dance and leave.

Those that prefer to hang out with dancers IMO are looking for emotional attachment/gratification. It's entertainment, enjoy it any way you want.

@randy77: "I know, to each his own, but c'mon, let the girls make as much as they can."

So let me get this straight. A dancer should dump her nice fat whale who's paying her rent in one visit, and instead go see a whiny little bitch who just wants a lap or two and then is gone? Right, I'm sure that's a persuasive argument.

To, somewhat, answer your questions:

1: Well, I'm not a whale, and I don't generally spend an entire shift in a club, and never with one girl, so I'm probably not the target audience here. When my CF/ATF was still working, I'd buy a couple of drinks for her, and she'd spend a couple of hours with me, but I also deliberately chose the early part of her shift to come in and do that. Now, I was giving her one to two hundred a week outside the club, so that might have had something to do with it.

2: I think steve229 covered that subject with his Net Present Value speech. :)

3: The "loser" kind where she fucks me regularly OTC so I don't have to spen a lot of money ITC.

4: Well, if she's sitting with me, she is making money. Any dancer who sits with somebody for an extended period of time and isn't making money, probably won't last long, and any PL who assumes a dancer isn't chasing money by sitting for an extended period of time is stupid.

"Sounds like selfish bastards."

I've never claimed otherwise with regard to myself. Don't like it? Tough. Man up and bring some cash, or keep your whiny little mouth shut.

@jerikson40: You make some good points with regard to the self respect thing, but my advice to you is the same: if you're not willing to spend the cash to attract her attention away from the whale, you might as well go home, or find another one. You're sure as hell not gonna change the whale's, or dancer's, behaviour by whinging about it.

I get shit 4 free yo !

All I got to do is just show up

Surprised to learn there's resentment and pent up anger amongst brothers in arms. That ain't right.

Here's a proposal: next time a stripper you want is hogging a fat balding guy, come over and say "hey cousin, steve, long time no see" (don't say alucard cause it'll sound fake). If it's me will treat ya to a couple of LDs.

@jerkson40: leave your pride at the door and make sure to use them condoms.

Hey, I don't care if a stripper sits with someone her whole shift. To each his own. I'm just trying to spice up the threads. The threads lately have been kinda lame. I think we got some diverse comments on this one. IMO

r77 and j40: Welcome back to the real world. Even a stripclub (those places where hot women who wouldn't pay you any heed in a "regular club/bar will fawn all over you [for $$] ) aren't totally exempt from real world rules/nuances. Yes, even in stripclubs, desired object of interest can and will be "taken".

I'm not a true whale- my focus in a club falls between j40 and Alucard. In my time with tuscl,I've seen very few people allude to, much less admit to being a whale (or a fuckoe as bandied about on another site). Those who do will probably tell you to f^*k yourself for seeking info on spending levels. As for why it happens, it takes 2 to tango. Dancers are human, and will sometimes take a little less money for less perceived aggravation of pursuing an additional ammount of unknown income with unknown customers. So, to answer r77 1st 2 questions, my guess would be 50% or more of dancers average shift income.

As to why a guy would hang out in club and monopolize a dancer for whatever reason (especially OTC action)- I'd speculate that some degree of ego tripping is at play, but so what? Life goes on, any ammount of wishing or teeth gnashing isn't going to tear dancer away from regular. Either find another dancer, or cut losses by trying another club, or different hours where percentage of regulars is lower. Been there, done that.

$0, why would I want to spend an entire shift with one babe, when I can have the pleasure of more than one, if need be. To each their own.

One thing that has struck me as interesting about this unique social environment is that both the customers and dancers think that they are far more in control of the situation than they think they are.

What should be obvious is that unless you are using a degree of coercion to keep her there that would border on criminal then if she is sitting there it is because she has calculated that it is to her advantage to stay there.

So while you may think that she is there it somehow represents that she is yours what is really going on is that she is staying there to demonstrate that YOU are HERS. She has made a calculated decision that it is better for her to hang there and get the one or two extra private dances that she figures are still in your wallet than to go work the room and maybe or maybe not get a private dance out of it while at the same time make you available for someone else to grab.

So it isn't that she is going to make 'enough' by staying with you. There is no such thing as 'enough' there is only 'as much as possible' and she thinks that getting what is left in your wallet is the best chance at 'as much as possible'.

What enters into that decision for the dancer? How many available fish are in the pond, whether they look like minnows, big fish, or whales, and whether any of them have already shown that they aren't taking the bait she has on her hook.

ATF's sit with their regulars because they want too. It is a business decision.

They can either:

1. Spend all night doing stage rotations,hustle the floor trying to get dances from the 2-or-3-that's-all-I-want crowd, put up with young college age assholes, and have every horny cheap bastard in the club ask her for $20 blowjobs or

2. She can spend a relaxed night with a guy she actually enjoys being with. He buys her drinks, dinner, tips her out of stage rotations, saves her from working her ass off hustling the floor all night for a 100 or two, takes her to the VIP for some personal time, and finally pays her what she would have made on a regular night anyway. Plus he will be back in the next week or two for a repeat.

If you were a dancer, which option would you choose?

"ATF's sit with their regulars because they want too. It is a business decision.

They can either:

1. Spend all night doing stage rotations,hustle the floor trying to get dances from the 2-or-3-that's-all-I-want crowd, put up with young college age assholes, and have every horny cheap bastard in the club ask her for $20 blowjobs or

2. She can spend a relaxed night with a guy she actually enjoys being with. He buys her drinks, dinner, tips her out of stage rotations, saves her from working her ass off hustling the floor all night for a 100 or two, takes her to the VIP for some personal time, and finally pays her what she would have made on a regular night anyway. Plus he will be back in the next week or two for a repeat.

If you were a dancer, which option would you choose?"

It is pleasant to see someone can view things the same way I do. THX pabloantonio.

Sometimes I seem to spend more time on thinking about getting a dancer to leave since I'm not always quick to say I'd rather be alone or I don't want dances right now. Fortunately I usually don't mind when most dancers approach me. It's only those who aren't my type or I believe shouldn't be working in a strip club. If there's not one dancer I know sitting with me, there often seems to be another coming around a minute or two later. Sometimes I let them sit with me instead of trying to get rid of them. If we hit it off, then I may get dances or buy them a drink.

I will buy a dancer a drink and maybe buy an inexpensive dance if I like her but I won't pay for time. If a favorite sits with me for a long time, that is unusual. There was one dancer who did this recently and she called me her buddy. I'm not sure why she used that term. She even bought me a beer one night. Sometimes she would sit at my table a little bit too long I thought. It was like she didn't want to leave. If the club is slow or not many dancers are circulating, I don't mind as much.

Now if you run into a dancer who refuses to leave your table and leave you alone, that is rare but extremely irritating. I suppose when I'm much older, that problem will go away completely. Now if I thought she fell from heaven and couldn't get enough of her and she didn't want to leave me alone, I'd probably be pinching myself to see if I died.

Back to original question, I rarely spend that much time with favorites. Well except for some chit chat before a lap dance starts. There have been a couple of dancers who liked to spend more time with me. I was the same age as one. She wanted to date me but I didn't pick up on that for a long time. Another one was much younger than me. The club was slow on many nights and I would occasionally buy her a beer and a table dance. Other dancers would still approach and occasionally sneak in a table dance. She knew all the other hot dancers. If I had two dancers sitting with me, I would usually refuse to buy extra drinks. I would let them go sit somewhere else.

After two table dances and somewhere between 2 to 3 beers, I was more than ready to let the very hot dancer sitting with me for an hour or two to go somewhere else. That seems like a long time for me.

"After two table dances and somewhere between 2 to 3 beers, I was more than ready to let the very hot dancer sitting with me for an hour or two to go somewhere else. That seems like a long time for me."

Well did she Leave sharkhunter??

1. She can spend a relaxed night with a guy she actually enjoys being with.

thats funny. you think she actually enjoys being with you anymore than any of the other horny bastards. she enjoys being with your money.

"How much do you spend for ATF to sit all shift with you?"

None of your business, but it is definitely more than you spend. The girls that sit with me do so voluntarily. They believe that they'll make more from me than they will from that whiney little bitch who is clutching a couple of 20s in his pocket and waiting desperately for a couple of lapdances before he goes home to jerk off to free Internet porn.

And now one of these whiney little bitches, after admitting that he'll actually wait a full hour extra in the club just to get a dance from a particular girl, calls US pathetic? LMAO. Let me explain something son: we don't have to chase after them - they compete for OUR time.

A strip club is an economic jungle. The bigger animals eat first and the little animals get what is left. Simple. Don't like it? Then spend more than I do. Otherwise, get your ass to the back of the bus and wait until I am done.

Now I am not completely unsympathetic to this as I have been on both sides of this equation. NY and CT are my local stomping grounds and there are a lot of big animals here. Every so often, I find myself with an empty seat next to me while a girl that I like is collecting from someone with deeper pockets.

When I am outclassed for a particular girl, do I sit around and wait for her? Fuck no! I move on to another girl or I leave. THAT is self-respect. Either they chase me or I don't spend at all. I don't whine about it or feel sorry for myself because I just don't need it that badly. Shit, I don't even do lapdances because, in most places, it is an utter waste of time.

Fucking sissies. I shit stuff tougher than most of the broke-ass losers who I see waiting for lapdances that they'll never get from the girls who are sitting with me.

RickDugan, If you had any reading comprehension, you'd notice that I don't give a shit, but I was tired of the lame threads lately (i.e. Am I a Toff among others) and was trying to spice things up with a comment made by another.

I noticed on another thread, "Mileage - How much are you willing to pay for low mileage" everyone was bragging about how cheap they are, but no one wants to admit how much they pay for "good service." A poster bragged that he won't pay more than $20 for a LD, but the same guy won't answer the question about how much do you pay for "good service"

"I shit stuff tougher than most of the broke-ass losers ..." That comment isn't for me, but your tough talk doesn't phase me limp dick. The only reason I even read these posts is to laugh at the losers that spend so much time & money in strip clubs instead of in the real world with real women. It's so obvious many on this site have never had a real relationship. Some of these members appear to be on-line more than a teenage girl is on facebook.

No one is answering the question, because they know everyone will call them a PL for spending so much money. Doesn't matter, because anyone admitting to sitting with a dancer for more than a few songs IS a PL.

Randy, you are both ignorant and full of shit.

First, stop claiming that you don't care when (1) you started this silly thread in the first place; and (2) you continue to espouse negative beliefs about guys who spend time and money on dancers. Clearly you do care.

Second, contrary to your assertions, most guys who spend time and money on dancers are married or have been married, have children and make good money. So why do they do what they do? Because to them it is NOT big money and spending time with strippers allows them to mess around with much younger women while remaining devoid of drama and complications.

And here'a another little factoid rocket scientist: you don't really know what the arrangement is between that old guy and the dancer. Many of these arrangements don't stop at the club doors. There are two different worlds in many strip clubs, one occupied by the have nots who have to wait for a few lapdances and the other for the guys who have the money to be a real contributor.

Dude, it is ok if you have "back of the bus" status. Just don't be stupid enough to come on here and call a 50+ year old guy who spends money he won't miss on a 20-something dancer, and who he may very well be fucking, a PL.

But come back anytime if there is anything I can do to educate you further. ;)

But surely "The System" confers some quantifiable advantage in the size of fish game, no? Maybe like you had 10% more dollars? "The System" surely works, but doesn't speak quite as loudly as money does, no?

Randy and Rick, you really still think that you are keeping her there? She is staying there because she wants to keep the other dancers from trying to get some of your money. The minute she thinks that you aren't worth protecting any more she will make some excuse to have to go for a while (bathroom, stage rotation, phone call, needs to talk with another dancer about 'something').

Shut the fuck up, inno123. :-) You are worse than one of them fucking parrots I got.

"But surely "The System" confers some quantifiable advantage in the size of fish game, no? Maybe like you had 10% more dollars? "The System" surely works, but doesn't speak quite as loudly as money does, no?"

I continue to be amused by seeing my approach to things being labeled as a "system" - lol. But ok, I'll roll with it. ;)

First, you are mixing two different discussion topics here as your comments relate to my POVs on arranging same night OTC in out-of-town locations rather than the regular/fav dynamic, where a dancer often has multiple visits over which to develop a comfort level before she agrees to OTC.

But whether it is a one-off encounter or a reg/fav dynamic, everything matters in OTC considerations. Most dancers are not whore-bots dude. Of course money is the driving motivator, but factos like safety, discretion and overall personal comfort factor into the mix.

My approach is simply designed to discreetly weed out the ones who will never, ever do OTC and to provide comfort to those who (1) do it routinely and/or (2) who might be on the fence but would do it under the right circumstances. Most of my OTC encounters happen during business trips, so I do not have the luxury of developing a comfort level through multiple reg/fav visits, though I have one of those in my home base as well. ;)

Over the past 12 months, some of the states that I had OTC encounters in included PA, GA, MA, TX (Dallas, not Houston), CT, NY, most of which involved same night encounters. These areas are not exactly considered the wilder locales. In all but perhaps a couple of the Dallas encounters, where the girls brazenly left the club with me, the dancers were quite worried about being caught and went to great lengths to hide what they were doing. In a few cases, it was also quite easy to discern that they were on the fence before deciding to do it and a one girl was even confused about how hotels operated, which told me a lot.

Dougster, I realize that you do not have much (if any) personal experience in this stuff, which leads you to make stupid comments. Normally I let them pass, but on this particular topic I would hate newer, more impressionable minds to walk away with the mistaken belief that your comment and review numbers (and we all know the value of your reviews) provide any credibility to anything that you have to say on the topic of dancer behavior.

@rick: No experience? Why I've got four numbers for OTC just in the last month. How? Just asked.

Shit, it ain't rocket science. Which is the whole point. You claim you had to spend 10 prime years of your life developing this subtle/ingenuous system to get strippers to have sex with you. You think it's a brilliant discovery which is a consequence of your deep psychological insights and understanding.

I, OTOH, just ask them if they would like to have sex OTC, and it works just as well as your stupid system. Which is why I constantly make fun of your system. But you fail to acknowledge the point. Why? Because it would require you admitting a couple of things

a) the 10 years you spent developing the system, came up with nothing better than just asking, someone something could have figured out right off the bat.

b) It would mean if a stripper fucks for money, then as long as you have the money it makes almost no difference who you are. (I liken it to the Burger King criteria - yes some people will not get served at Burger King. Maybe 1 in 1000. But if you can meet the bar for getting served there, you should be good for a stripper to have sex with you if you pay.)

Now after I flailed you so badly about the system, and other started making fun of what a joke it was too, I noticed you really backed off on it. Really watered down your claims about it, and said you never claimed things you did in the first place.

But, hey, I do know one thing. Reason won't convince. You have a deep psychological need to beleive there is complex art/science to paying hookers for sex, and that you cracked the code. In your own mind you are about equivalent to Alan Turing just that they don't give awards (thought maybe they ought to!) for that kind of thing.

In reality, though, you are just another guy paying hookers for sex, and it is no accomplishment when you pay the money and the hooker provides the sex. You might as well come on here and say you developed a system for buyign a whooper at Burger King, oh, it does involve pay the advertised price, but, don't you see, not just anyone is able to order one...

Amazing how many guys on TUSCL still don't get this and never will.

Douchester,

Getting phone numbers for OTC isn't quite the same as getting OTC.

Rick gets OTC on the day of his visit as a new customer. IME that is a little more difficult than obtaining just a phone number. You must be quite the stud collecting phone numbers. What do you do, decorate your short bus with them?

BTW, if you are an asshole at Burger King, it is a pretty safe bet your hamburger doesn't have the same fixings as the one for the nice guy, it probably has a little extra added to it.

@txtittyfan: I've had two of the girls over for OTC already. Of the other two one texted me, but I haven't called her back yet. Haven't tried calling the fourth one yet, but no reason to beleive she isn't certain!

This really upsets you doesn't it?

That someone who doesn't "respect" the whores, can line up OTC just as easily as you guys who image you do "respect" them, and pretend you are nice guys.

When will you learn that they are just whores?

@txtittyfan: You also seem to have this weird notion that the clerks at Burger King have some clairvoyant powers and can magically see who is an asshole and who isn't. Plenty of assholes get served the same whooper as everyone else, as long they just go ahead and order the burger and don't have a reason to start a fight with the guy at the counter.

The way the world works in your mind is pretty idealistic, but doesn't have much intersection with the reality. I think that's your main problem, plus generally limited intelligence. Rick, OTOH, is just an egomaniac who needs to beleive some pretty ridiculous things to convince himself that he is a rich, stud. (Although he is backing off on that now after I beat him down so many times over it.)

@txtittyfan: shut the fuck up, and let rickdugan and dougster settle their disagreement. Both make valid points and don't see much daylight between them. Then again I find Alucard and Dougster to be kindred spirits but they seem to disagree.

Dougster, Excellent example with Burger King, but I think many of these guys are such losers that they need to make up some delusional fantasy.

My post was meant to draw out these losers. They brag about how little they pay for a LD and brag about how they have their ATF with them all shift, but say, "No of your fucking business" when asked basically, "How much are your paying to have someone by your side all night?" Essentially, everyone, except the losers like themselves, would laugh their asses off if they knew how much they were wasting having some stripper sit with them while they pretend the stripper is their GF. They pretend like they don't miss the money and yet when there was a post a few months back about how often you go to SC, EVERYONE said they had to cut back due to the current economic situation. Doesn't sound like they have money to burn.

Guess everyone can hate me now for trying to expose the wannabe whales. There's a lot of comments on this post, but NOT ONE has come out to say how much they spend to have their "fantasy GF" sit with them all shift.

I just love that Burger King analogy. That says it ALL!

@randy77: you make some valid points but you also talk like a fucking sissy. Bet all the guys here (incl. Dougster and rickdugan) feel the same way.

Instead of talking like a high school kid trying to write a term paper, listen to the 50+ group on the list and maybe you'll learn a thing or two. And, if you stop being a whining pussy, some may even answer the fucking questions you want answered.

Fuck you Steve.

Finally. Stay on this track.

Dougster, why do you do this to yourself? Seriously, I’m not trying to be mean here, but do you realize that you just analogized the choice of a strip club dancer to put her safety and well being into the hands of a relative stranger to that of a BK cashier to sell someone a Whopper? Do you not realize how ridiculous that comparison is on its face? How do you not get how obviously absurd that is to any guy who routinely does that sort of thing, or do you just not care whether anything you say actually makes any sense?

Most of the seasoned vets on this thing have had the good sense to put you on ignore, but for some reason I just haven’t been able to do that yet. In the almost 3 years that I have been posting on this site, I have yet to see you post a single decent piece of advice or information, and I most certainly include your club reviews in that statement. You post about this stuff as if you are a teenager who reads it on the Internet, with no understanding of the human elements involved. I am actually starting to become embarrassed for you.

Why do you feel such a driving need to come on here and make stuff up? We know you haven’t received any “OTC numbers” (lol – what a way to describe them btw) and we know that most, if not all, of your reviews are frauds. Why bother? Are you simply bored? Are you the product of a real club hound’s sick imagination (which is my best guess)? I just don’t get it.

As for your comments about my “system” and posting history, I’ll let others be the judge of the usefulness of what I post, but I’ll say that I have always been consistent and always will be. I do what I do, it works for me, and I neither make any apologies nor need to back off of anything. Why? Because I am posting about actual events and club visits, including things that I do in places all over the country.

Again, I’m not trying to be mean, but I could think of many better hobbies than coming onto a strip club web site and performing a bad imitation of someone who actually spends time in clubs and with strippers.

Rick the challenge still stands. If you think my reviews are fake then go ahead and flag them. This challenge has stood for nearly a year now, and neither you nor anybody else has flagged a single one.

I told you to put up or shut up, and you have wisely to chosen to shut up. But if you want to go ahead and flag the ones you think are fake now go right ahead and do it. I won't hold my breath though, because, you sir, are all talk.

In fact, try a baby step toward. We have a number of posters from Seattle. Get one them to flag the ones you think are fake. Let's see if it happens.... Waiting.

LOL. That is a bogus challenge and you know it. You've been very careful to compile enough information (no doubt through other reviews and from club websites) to write 3+ paragraph dissertaions about each club's interior, thereby making it difficult to flag your reviews for insufficient content, while at the same time never actually providing enough specific details about a visit, including the numbers and types of girls, drink-cover-dance prices, the levels of services rendered in LD/VIP/CR areas, girl to guy ratios or anything else of any real substance, to give other readers anything to sink their teeth into and call out.

But instead of spending your time creating fake reviews that provide absolutely nothing of worth but yet are artfully designed to be difficult to flag, here's a real challenge: Give us one truly useful review. Just one. Give us something that we can read and feel like we walked away with more than we had before reading it.

I don't care if that review comes from the area in which you purportedly reside or from another area. Just show us that you are actually capable of adding something other than crap intel and uninformed opinions into what I have always reviewed as an information respository. Just one time.

Now there is a challenge worth answering, but I have my doubts about whether you are in a position to do so.

What a joke.

Rick: "Your reviews are all fake!"

Dougster: "Well flag them down as fake then, or get someone else to!"

Rick: "Well, I can't actually do that..."

Dougster: "Not even one, Rick? Can't get someone in the area to either?"

Rick: "Well, no, and I know no one ever has, but, dammit, they are all fake!"

My reviews have included all the things you ask for, Rick. Often more. For example, in my review of Dreamgirls at Rick's I included the names of some former Talent's West girls who work there since locals often ask me in PMs "Do you know where so-and-so works now?"

You are the only one on here who has ever complained about my reviews Rick. Now I find that kind of strange that you have but the locals, who ought to know best, have not. Makes me think that maybe, just maybe, you are being disingenous (big word I know, and to help mikeya02 out, here's a hint it basically means lying) and have some kind of agenda, hmmmmm?

But tell you what. Ask a neutral third party like ClubGoer what he thinks, are my reviews fake or not, and we'll go with that. Deal? I ain't scared of these challenges, but you sure seem to be. Why is that, Rick? :-)

Your dog sure barks alot Rick, but the minute I stick my hand out to see if it bites it just runs away with excuses like "artfully crafted, blah, blah, blah..."

If you got something, go ahead and show it Rick! Couldn't get a single flag, huh, Rick? You are going to have to get that number up a bit from zero if anyone besides yourself is going to believe you, buds! Good luck!

That is what I thought. I guess we can just expect more of the same from you then. More crap reviews which include monumental efforts to provide layout information without any insights into the girls, the crowd, the prices or the services. Heck, my favorite was the review of the Nevada brothel, where you took credit for a review when you did NOT purchase the services of any of its providers. LOL.

And of course I am sure that we can expect yet more dancer whore-bot comments. I guess those girls in the Seatle area clubs are far wilder than the various stories I've read about that area would lead one to believe - LOL. Four "OTC numbers in one week? Wow sir, you are a real dancer whore-bot magnet. ;)

And so it continues...

I see alot of "blah, blah, blah..." from you Rick, but still not a single one my reviews has been flagged by you or anyone else. What's up with that? "Crafty wording"? :-)

Still waiting for flags, Rick. About one year and counting...

Oh, Rick, and just in case you try and I say I did not live up to your challenge, here is a review I wrote with everything on your checklist:

tuscl.net

drink/cover prices: check services in VIP: check (this club only has a so called "VIP" area) dance prices: check girl to guy ratio: check type of girls: check general atmosphere: check

Now that I lived up to your challenge. Time for you to live up to mine. Have or anyone else flag a single one of my "fake" reviews. Or take the easier challenge, have a neutral third party local say they are fake.

Do I really think you will do that, Rick, of course not? Waiting for you to come up with some conspiracy theory to weasel your way out... I would expect nothing less from you. :-)

THAT was your gold standard? Seriously? I could have written that review from here in NY based simply upon what previous reviewers posted.

You provided no girl to guy ratio other than a generic comment about a few other customers. How many girls? What were their ethnicities and body types? What were there approx. ages of the unspecified number and unspecified types of girls on shift other than your very generic "late 20s to late 30s"?

The dance and drink prices, as well as layout and other details, were provided by a ton of reviewers right before you, though you failed to mention that the drink charge comes with free refills, probably because you were not there long enough - if at all - to get a refill.

And how do you know that this statement is, in fact, true: "ITC mileage is pretty much guarenteed here. You don't have to look, it comes to you. That kind of justifies the high prices if you aren't in the mood to search and just want to get off quickly."

Did YOU benefit from this dancer generosity? Did YOU go back during your visit? Several other reviewers, including a couple of fairly seasoned ones, seemed to disagree with your notion that mileage was anywhere close to assured and were very clear that some girls are more willing than others.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Other than your mileage guarantee, which is highly debatable but could be spun as just your opinion, there is probably nothing "inaccurate" per se in your "review", but neither is there anything original and you provided zilch in terms of any specific information regarding the girls on shift or your individual experiences.

Is this flagable? Probably not, but there is a wide gulf between flagability, which requires hard evidence of BS, and actual authenticity. Might you have actually popped into the club for a few minutes on this occasion? Who the fuck knows, but either way it is useless and could have easily been written by somebody who has never set foot in the place.

I'm not sure which is more sad, the fact that this is among your BEST "reviews" or the fact that your others go even further downhill from there.

You are a fraud sir. Pure and simple. A clever fraud, but a fraud nonetheless.

Rick, you're not very bright are you? In the reviews there is a standard box you need to check about number of dancers on shift. On this one I checked 1-5. Because of this I didn't feel the need to repeat the information again in the review.

Also I never said this was the only review I have met your criteria, or my best review just that it was a review that met them. (There are others.)

You claimed I had zero reviews that could meet your criteria, I have already proved you are wrong by showing one. (In fact, it was just one I pulled at random, too.) My advice to you is never try and win a debate with me by appealing to concrete facts. Everyone who does that is walking into a trap. txtittyfan tried it many times and learned his lesson the hard way. Stick to vague "hit and run", aka "you're an asshole!" Anything specific I will always bet you or any combination of people on your side on. Everything I thing I say careful checked for factual accuracy and can stand up to any number of critics, as it has over the years.

Now, the funniest part is that you know well my reviews are legit, which is why neither you nor anyone else has ever flagged any of them and never will. If they were fake you or someone else would have flagged one of them by now! It's a complete lesson in disinegunity when you try and pretend they are fake and think anyone in the world will beleive you. You should consider a job in politics!

Finally, it's quite interesting how frothing at the mouth you get about calling me a fraud. What is the reason for that? It's pretty clear here. You are the fraud by claiming I post fake reviews when you don't have the guts to flag a single one down or even to get a local to.

You know you can't for the simple reason that they are all legit. Thus you are the fraud by claiming my reviews are fake when they are not with absolutely nothing to back up your claim.

But prove me wrong, Rick. Flag any of them down or get a local to. Still waiting. Nearly a year and counting. ;-)

RICK_THEIDIOT_DUGAN LOSES AGAIN!

LOL. Ah huh. Thou doth protest too much, but the continued lack of original and visit-specific content in your reviews will continue to speak for itself. You can continue to shuck, jive, obfuscate and make all the noise you want, but it doesn't make your reviews any more real - just you more desperate. You can also keep spinning the lack of flags as proof of authenticity until the cows come home - maybe someone will even believe you. ;)

From here forth, I dub thee Sir Fraudster. Now you will have to excuse me if I take the "Sir" out in common usage, but there it is. LMAO.

Fraudster, I guess I will never understand what makes a guy like you tick. I don't go on fly fishing sites and pretend to be avid fly fisherman, posting regurgitated information about great fishing spots. I just don't understand why you feel the need to do this on a SC site, nevermind the ridiculous posts about dancer behavior and other attendant nonsense.

C'est la vie I suppose.

Fraudster, the only reason that I've taken this as far as I have is that you, and others like you, are nothing more than wasteful sideshows on this site. You have posted 25 essentially useless reviews on this site and have derailed countless threads with over 2,000 largely nonsensical posts, many of which didn't even relate to a SC topic at all and the ones that did provided ridiculous viewpoints (with rare exceptions).

Where others use this as a place to share experiences and to gain information, you and others of your ilk (and maybe multiple usernames of the same asswipe) are turning it into a circus arena. Nobody gives a shit about some other fictitious user's views on treausuries or anything else for that matter other than clubs and dancers.

With that I am done. I've expended more time than I am willing to on this.

I think that it really sucks gone on this long is It really sucks, you are though, that a user

And with that, I am done with this thread. I've simply lost my patience for debating with you or whatever other user on here is actually supporting your moniker.

and you can continue to protest, or post anything

Rick, you are right the lack of the flagging of a single one of my reviews by you, a local, or anyone else, for that matter is suffecient proof by itself that they are legit.

(Also to address another of your point many of reviews contain the names of girls who work in the club not listed in any other review, but I'm sure you'll have an even more elaborate conspiracy theory to explain that away...)

But to make it easier on you (actually to double your humiliation since I know you won't accept this either) I gave you another challenge:

Find a neutral third party local who agrees that my reviews are fake. Hell find anyone who agrees with your nutty conspiracy theories about "fake reviews".

So come on, Rick, show me ANYONE who agrees that my review are fake. Double-dog dare ya! (And no, mikeya02 and his GED powered brain does not count!)

You haven't met any of my challenges so far, so I fully expect you to find a way to weasel out of this one too, but show me what ya got (i.e. nothing).

Oh, he realized how badly he was losing so decided to depart the thread. Good idea in some ways to quit when you are getting thrashed that badly, but, OTOH, everyone will, of course, see it as him admitting defeat...

Too easy, overall though. Even easier than beating him up over "the system" was.

:-) :-) :-)

victory dance

Fraudster