strippers who like really like you..or are they just acting??

Chandler, there's one other aspect of this "getting to know someone" that I can add. I enjoy talking to young people generally, because I'm curious about what goes on in their world, which is very different from mine. As I've said before, my idea of hell is being stuck in a room full of people who are just like me. I can't learn anything that way. I can only learn a lot from people who are very different from me. Nor can I have a good argument with people who agree with me, and as you've perhaps noticed, I sometimes enjoy a good argument if the peson has some intelligence and isn't overly abrasive. So that's another aspect of what I mean when I say I like to get to know strippers. I'm curious about what makes them tick, I think they're an interesting class of people.

FONDL: Sorry, it looks like I REALLY misunderstood you. I'm glad for your sake you didn't mean what I thought. I got pretty carried away there, didn't I? Oh well, if there's anybody who DOES make it their main goal to get to know strippers, at least now they know where I stand.

And I totally agree that I wouldn't care if a stripper is acting, and that she probably doesn't know which is which herself.

Strippers have to like us as customers and at least they have to act as if they like us. Because, they've to make money. They are there to make Money!

Shadowcat, do you really care if it's acting or not? I wouldn't. Do you think she even knows to what extent she's acting? Do any of us?

Chandler, I think you've misudnerstood me. I don't go to clubs looking to get to know a girl either, and most of the girls I've met in clubs I've only seen that one night, I rarely go back. As I've said many times before, when I go to a club I go to have fun, and I try not to have any preconceived notions of what that will entail. Most times when I'm in a club if I find a girl I like enough to buy a dance from her I'll usually just stay with that one girl because I don't usually stay in a club very long. And sometimes I'll try to get to know a little about her because I enjoy the conversation and I prefer getting dances from someone I know a little about.

But if I do happen to meet a girl who I really like and enjoy, I will sometimes return and as long as she treats me the way I want to be treated I'll continue to return. I've only ever gotten to know one dancer really well and that happened primarily after she quit dancing. When I say I like to get to know a dancer, I'm mean that in a very general and limited customer-dancer sense. I agree that you're never going to get to know a dancer very well in a club. Nor do I try.

Honestly I don't analyze things in the clubs nearly as much as we all seem to here. I prefer daytime but two of my favorites work nights so I visit them on slow nights. I have favs in every club but I don't go to any club just to sit with one girl. I do have enough favs in every club that I don't spend much time alone or fending-off unwanted attention.

If I'm on the road and visiting a club I'm most likely going at night and getting hit on by a bunch of strange women who are half naked (or more). How can there possibly be anything wrong with this?

FONDL: Different strokes indeed. It should come as no surprise that I don't share either premise implied in your post. First of all, it generally costs more, not less, to reduce your market to a single supplier. I've had some great times buying just one or two dances each from several girls.

And I don't go to strip clubs with the object of getting to know strippers. I go for erotic thrills. Getting to know the girls can happen in the process, but it seems to me that making that your main goal is putting the cart before the horse.

Besides, I believe there's a limit to how well anyone can get to know a stripper at work. It can happen in a matter of minutes just as well as by spending hours on end hanging out with her and/or her purse with diminshing returns. I don't believe that getting to know somebody is necessarily a function of spending time with them at the exclusion of others. You might learn more things about her, but that's not the same as knowing her. I've found that that also comes from interacting with her and others in different situations. But that's me and it just happens to be my preference to spread around the luv.

Chandler, different strokes for different folks (no pun intended.) I prefer to get to know one girl really well than to get to know several less well. I also think it tends to be cheaper. Just my preference. I recognize that others have different preferences.

FONDL: I don't think late night clubbing is the issue here. I stay away the very few hours of the week when that's a problem. The big difference is that I don't buy into your ATF-By-Appointment style of clubbing. Sitting alone with a purse to ward off all the hot ass strippers who want to slide onto my lap and tease me into submission would mean missing the whole point of being there any time of day.

The other problem with late night clubbing is that in many clubs that's when the drunk young punks arrive. They load up somewhere where the booze is much cheaper, than come in to a club and harass the girls and don't spend any money. It creates a very different and unpleasant environment. No thanks.

Chandler, it sounds like one big difference between us is that I avoid clubs when they're busy and I believe that Yoda does too. Most of my clubbing is during the day, and if I am there at night I'll be out of there pretty early. So I never have to contend with that frantic last couple of hours. It makes a big difference.

But to return to the original question, I don't much care if a girl really likes me or not. My main concerns are (1) do I like her,(2) does she treat me the way I want to be treated, and (3) how much is it going to cost. The question of whether or not she likes me is about #20 on the list. I don't plan to propose, I just want to play a little.

Yoda, FONDL: We already know we take opposite approaches. I had my old ATF because she was sexy, wild and unpredictable. She was always pulling stunts, but I didn't let it bother me. I never kept her phone number because it changed every month. I don't go to a club to see just one girl and sit alone with her purse when she's otherwise engaged. I can say yes or no for myself when other girls ask to join me. If I wanted to avoid being bothered by strippers I'd hang out at the library.

Some background/explanation: At my regular club, it's pretty slow from 9 to midnight, then it turns insanely busy. Girls make the lion's share of their income in the last hour or two of their shift. They never know when they go up to the VIP if they'll get on a roll and stay up there until closing. To expect my ATF to interrupt that to come back downstairs and say she's being monopolized so can she have my $30 would be silly. Still I think she enjoyed making me chase her down. I knew the score. She learned to collect before she left me - usually - even though she would often come back.

I'm with Yoda, when I'm with a regular I like having her drink or purse sitting on my table, it keeps other girls from annoying me. I once left a club without paying a regular who had done a bunch of dances for me because she left saying she'd be right back and then stayed with another guy. I gave her the money the next time but she got the message. My ATF never pulled any stuff like that, which is maybe why she's my ATF.

I don't mind being marked. In fact, I prefer it. I go to see my favs and I'm seldom looking for new ladies so having a dancer's drink or purse at my table is a great way to fend off unwanted attention. A couple of my favs collect from me before I leave but I've never had to go looking for them, they come around between their other customers and when I'm ready to leave I settle-up (usually to my advantage) and head out.

A couple of years ago I left and forgot to pay a new fav of mine (I found the five $20 bills in my shirt pocket when I hit the toll booth). I called her to apologize and she told me not to worry, that she had forgotten about it as well until about half a hour after I left when she was counting her money. I met her for lunch the next day and paid her. It actually worked out well, we are great friends now, We see each other OTC more often than ITC now.

Bah! I never tell them they're free to go make money. They don't need to be told that. And I make sure she takes her purse so that if she's gone long another girl can move in in. Nobody's marking me. The only exception is when she goes onstage.

My old ATF acquired the habit of not collecting from me until the end of the night, which often came when she was off dancing for somebody. I got tired of tracking her down, and started giving her money to the manager, which cured that. So much for trust.

Bones, I've always done the same thing. It's kinda fun to be the home base, the person to whom she keeps returning between her other customers. I've had several faves who did that. Often they ask you to watch their purse for them, which I guess is marking their territory, except that it isn't necessary because all the other girls know that she's your regular. But it's also a little flattering. There goes that trust thing again.

Chandler, you make a good point, acting is an essential part of the game. Golfer, you also make a good point, when the girls are at work they're trying to earn a living and then some, just like we all do.

But having said both of those things, I think it's clear that dancers enjoy spending time with some customers more than others. So when we talk about whether or not a girl likes you, it should be within those parameters. Of course they're there to make money, and a customer who spends a lot of time with a girl without giving her some money is cheating her - she's working and her time inside the club is worth money. He's no friend and she will quickly realize that. If I ask someone to do some work for me, even if he's a close friend I still expect to pay him. Strippers are no different.

Okay let's look at the stripper life in the club. She takes off some or all of her clubs in front of 100's of men who she doesn't know. She then walks around and tries to find one to take back to the VIP or for a LP to make more money. He may be old, young, fat, sweaty, etc. but he is a $ sign for sure.
I admit that some of the people who frequent a club and have dancers who know them well get better treatment and maybe even special 'dances' for the same price but we are all still $ signs. Do something to piss them off and you'll see how much they like you lol.
It's all an act with 10% of the acting being real and the other 90% being their need for money and their hustle factor. I may be being a little harsh but I bet if you keep going into the club your ATF works and never get a dance from her she isn't going to be your best friend anymore.

Although I've long preferred dives over upscale clubs, the more I get around the more I learn to take them one club at a time. At my favorite gentlemen's clubs, the girls really make you feel like a king without being at all phony and not just the big spenders. Acting is getting a bad rap in this thread. Some are just better at it than others. A club where the all strippers are absolutely not acting would not be a very pleasant club to be in.

Casualguy, I've always felt that the more downscale a club is the more "real" the girls are. The phony bullshit seems to be most prevalent in the larger and fancier clubs, which is another reason to avoid them. The smaller neighborhood clubs just seem to have a friendlier atmosphere, possibly in part because most of the customers are regulars and customers and dancers all seem to know each other well. A girl playing phony games wouldn't last long.

Chandler, I know what you mean about girls scaling back on contact after they get to know you well, I've had that happen too. Fortunately that wasn't the case with my ATF.

It seems like many dancers don't bother acting where I live at. Either they seem to like you or they will just ignore you. I've seen one in particular I remember that pretended to like me by blinking her eye at me and it seemed like she was doing such a poor acting job. She didn't even know me so I don't know how she could like me. A few dancers are very good at stringing a whole lot of guys along.

FONDL, I was actually referring to strippers who have scaled back on physical contact and stimulation with me after our first few times together. I think they have some customers who don't miss it when it's replaced with hanging out and "acting normal". I do mind, so I pass them over for new girls.

Chandler, I should have clarified, she was treating me really well, in fact that's the best I've ever been treated in a club. She just wasn't being phony about it.

BTW, earlier today she made airline reservations to come visit me for a weekend from a 1,000+ miles away. Is that a sign that she likes me? Would any of you object to my paying for her tickets? She got a really cheap flight.

"She never gave me the big phony hug and smile, which I eventually understood to be a good sign. So I think that the more a girl comes to treat you as a regular person rather than a customer the more she probably likes you. It's that trust thing again."

FONDL, good for you, but I take that as a sign she's taking me for granted. I'm at a strip club to be erotically entertained. If being treated "like a regular person" means giving that up, I'll pass. A true friend appreciates that.

Chandler, it's because I've gotten to know her so well. We've been through an awful lot together and as a result have built up a huge amount of mutual trust. In the beginning I don't know what her motives were, I would guess it was mostly curiousity. It clearly wasn't money, she never made any effort to get much money from me and she easily could have done so.

And maybe she is pretty unique, in that she is very comfortable with much older pople, unusually so. When we're together I don't think either one of us is even aware anymore that there's an age difference, she treats me the same as she does any of her other friends.

And I agree with Casualguy, I think you can sometime tell if a dancer genuinely likes you (or at least doesn't actively dislike you, which is maybe a better way to say it), but I think you can also delude yourself with wishful thinking. I think you're better off not much caring.

For a long time I was puzzled by how my ATF would treat other customers - she'd go over and give them a big hug and a smile etc. etc. and I'd think, wow she really likes this guy, and then later she'd tell me what an asshole the guy is. She never gave me the big phony hug and smile, which I eventually understood to be a good sign. So I think that the more a girl comes to treat you as a regular person rather than a customer the more she probably likes you. It's that trust thing again.

I can understand FONDL's feelings about his ATF in spite of his warnings. I've been down the same road. In fact, a couple of e-daners and dancers are very close friends of mine. At some point the trust issue becomes a non-issue. People are people.

Some dancers I meet either do a fantastic acting job or seem to like me. I suppose clues might be when you get more mileage while just talking to a dancer than some guys get while getting a lap dance. There are a lot of body clues to tell whether someone is faking it or is doing a really good acting job or seems to like you. It's nice to have people be friendly whether they are acting or are genuine. I usually don't worry about it too much unless I'm wondering if they are planning on doing something dirty behind your back.

Hear, hear FONDL. You are right on the money when you say "chances are she doesn't know." Most dancers do not know what kind of relationship is building when they are just talking with you. They are usually undecisive people to start off with.

So this got to me to thinking: Is yank another one of these guys who "doesn't give a fuck what strippers think of him" but then wants a stripper to really like him and not just be acting?

FONDL, I can't help but ask: You tell Yank not to worry about her motivations and yet you seem quite certain about your ATF's. Is this because she's an exception, because you've passed the "not to worry" stage, or something else?

I've been reluctant to jump in here because you all already know what I'm going to say. I pretty much agree with the general line of thought here but there are exceptions and I found one. I've known my ATF for 9 years, she's my closest friend, and I never stopped being her customer when she worked in clubs (first as a dancer, later as a waitress) because I enjoyed it and it didn't bother her at all.

And I wasn't the only friend who she also had as a customer. Maybe she was different because she worked in her own home town and never bothered to assume a fake name because she figured half the customers knew who she was. She never had the opportunity to keep work and social life totally separate to the extent that most dancers do. So being a customer and a friend both seemed pretty natural to her.

But I readily admit that this is an exception, most customer-stripper relationships won't ever be like that. I think that her very young age (20) when we met, the fact that she had just started dancing that week, and our great age difference all made it easier for usa to become friends. I started out as a customer and ended up as friend and for some period of time was both. And I don't think either one of us knows when we crossed that friendship line, it happened very gradually over a long period of time. When we first started getting together OTC I was hoping for something very different from what happened. And I'm glad it did.

So my reaction to the question is, who cares? If you like the girl and enjoy spending time with her that's all that matters. As long as you're having fun and can afford it, don't worry about where it's heading or what her motivations are - chances are she doesn't know.

giveitayank: What is your ATF stage name? Does she work at Rick's? I may be able to help out here.

I should also point that some dancer's know that if they even if they ask certain customers (the especially pussy-ish ones) for OTC meetings that those customers will say "no" or come up with some excuse not to. So they feel free to bounce such ideas knowing that they will be rejected while at the same time leading the customer to think the affection is genuine.

Post her stage name, and I'll get the dirt on her.

Yoda...You make a good point about dancers wanting your money even if they likes you. Thirteen years ago, I tried to get the ball rolling on an actuall relationship with a stripper that I met in the club. No OTC ever happened and the only thing that came about was frustration and heartbreak. It's a line I'll never try to cross again. If anyone else wants to try to cross that line all I can say is, good luck.........

Looking for proof that a stripper's affection is genuine would be a poor reason to want to meet her for dinner. Do things together because you enjoy her company and want to get to know her better, but not if you have doubts about her feelings.

Also, a stripper talking in the club about meeting OTC doesn't mean much, since that's such a common ploy for stringing customers along. In fact, your saying she's brought this up many times makes me suspicious. Usually, if a stripper wants to get together, she makes sure it happens or else drops the idea when you don't pick up on it.

The thing to remember is that she may very well like you but that doesn't mean much. Sure it's better to be liked for something other than your money but it doesn't mean anything beyond a customer/dancer business relationship will ever happen. A lot of guys get themselves into trouble thinking it will.

I have friends who are either dancers or ex dancers. In all cases I either never was or stopped being their customers once the OTC friendship evolved. This is tricky since, even if a dancer likes you she usually will still want your money.

It is likely a combination. If she were a friend, you would not have to part with your money for any activity. How many female friends that have dinner or more with you expect some monetary payment? None. Those are friends. If there is any discussion of a payment for OTC activity including dinner, you are not a friend and just a customer.

jctone,

With my experience, it was a two way street. Sometimes I paid, sometimes she paid. We also exchanged gifts. What really did it for me was when she confided in me, things in her life. I have seen her a few times since I broke it off. We have mutual people we know. She is always friendly, but I can tell my breaking off our relationship hurt her. I wish I'd not done that, but I did. It just couldn't keep going as it was.

It's usually a little of both. I don't worry about the ambiguity or feel a need to validate her feelings. It's a two-way street. I have to admit I pretend to like her a little more than I might if she weren't so good at squirming on my lap.

I've only seen one dancer OTC. We talked for some time ITC before we met outside. She ask if I would help her pick out nes vehicle. I met her and we did that. We ate lunch together a few times and did other things. Sex was never mentioned. I honestly believe I was more a father to her, bit I know I was not a $ sign to her.

From what you wrote, it would guess that she talks to you about meeting you for dinner because she wants you to THINK that you have a chance at FRIENDSHIP with her. You also write that she told you that there is NO CHANCE of you having a RELATIONSHIP with her. However, you write that she would accept MONEY for SEX.

I would say that she is excited to see her source of income come in to the club to see her. By the way, who would be PAYING for this DINNER. Unlike other dancers you may have met, she seems to have better........

HUSTLING SKILLS!!!!!!!