Three questions

If Canada -- in particular southern Quebec province -- is within an easy drive then hell-yes you should go there. The clubs aren't necessarily well-reported here on TUSCL, so maybe you need to Google a bit, but it's my understanding that places like Chez Diane and Hilltop are basically free-for-all locations, where a "private dance" isn't just dancing, and that a high level of service is expected.

Doc........based upon where you are posting your reviews I assume that you live somewhere in the Maine area. I have been in that area a few times and had no luck with the clubs in terms of what you are looking for. Therefore I would suggest that you hire a pro for some one on one action or venture outside your area. What's the top 10 rated club just over into Canada? Might want to try that one on a weekend trip. The guys on the board are good guys and are right if you are having to negotiate and discuss every single thing before the dance it takes all the fun out lol If you have to ask how much extra if I touch your left nipple lol then it ain't worth it.

To Casualguy: When you refer to "sexual services," I assume that includes whatever she might do by way of touching you, but does that phrase, by your usage, also include you touching her. Are you saying that you only go to clubs to look or are you saying you go to look and to touch but not to get off?

Bones: I think you and I have similar priorities although I don't know whether the "gushing" would appeal to me or not.

I think an interesting topic for this board would be to set out as a group to learn more about the values, priorities, and motivations of guys who frequent strip clubs, using the participants of this board as a not-necessarily-random sample. We could all learn a bit about the thinking of a range of guys who enjoy strippers. I'm not sure whether such a self-study is feasible, however, because of the high level of "bashing" behavior that is evident in so many of the other threads that I briefly examined. I haven't paid much attention to which posters in particular are responsible, but it isn't pretty and it probably limits the variety of people willing to participate in this forum. For a study of "who we are" and "what we think about strip clubs" to be interesting and meaningful, there would need to be a moratorium on old grudges and an increase in tolerance for differences in viewpoint. Otherwise, the sampling of opinions would be excessively skewed toward the dominant viewpoint, as those with minority views get skewered and driven away. Honesty is only possible if the entire group can be reasonably non-judgmental.

If the conditions of discussion were appropriate, there would be many interesting questions that could be posed. Just for starters, one could ask board participants whether they view themselves as pro-feminism or anti-feminism. It would be interesting to know how strip club patrons feel about or view women apart from the sexual and physical aspect. Are strip club patrons more likely to be men who also admire women by personality, intellect, or emotions, or does their interest in the women's physical qualities tend to close off any broader interest the her? It would be interesting to find out whether strip club patrons are more or less tolerant of sexual preference alternatives compared to the general population of men. It would be interesting to know what fraction of participants prefer A-cup, B-cup, C-cup, D-cup, or larger. How many of us prefer women with small, tight pelvises versus a broader, more distinctly feminine build? Those kinds of discovery issues could only be approached in a meaningful way if participants felt that their particular viewpoint would not be subject to ridicule. This particular thread has been very constructive but it looks to me to be more the exception than the rule. What do you think?

Bones: I think you and I have similar priorities although I don't know whether the "gushing" would appeal to me or not.

I think an interesting topic for this board would be to set out as a group to learn more about the values, priorities, and motivations of guys who frequent strip clubs, using the participants of this board as a not-necessarily-random sample. We could all learn a bit about the thinking of a range of guys who enjoy strippers. I'm not sure whether such a self-study is feasible, however, because of the high level of "bashing" behavior that is evident in so many of the other threads that I briefly examined. I haven't paid much attention to which posters in particular are responsible, but it isn't pretty and it probably limits the variety of people willing to participate in this forum. For a study of "who we are" and "what we think about strip clubs" to be interesting and meaningful, there would need to be a moratorium on old grudges and an increase in tolerance for differences in viewpoint. Otherwise, the sampling of opinions would be excessively skewed toward the dominant viewpoint, as those with minority views get skewered and driven away. Honesty is only possible if the entire group can be reasonably non-judgmental.

If the conditions of discussion were appropriate, there would be many interesting questions that could be posed. Just for starters, one could ask board participants whether they view themselves as pro-feminism or anti-feminism. It would be interesting to know how strip club patrons feel about or view women apart from the sexual and physical aspect. Are strip club patrons more likely to be men who also admire women by personality, intellect, or emotions, or does their interest in the women's physical qualities tend to close off any broader interest the her? It would be interesting to find out whether strip club patrons are more or less tolerant of sexual preference alternatives compared to the general population of men. It would be interesting to know what fraction of participants prefer A-cup, B-cup, C-cup, D-cup, or larger. How many of us prefer women with small, tight pelvises versus a broader, more distinctly feminine build? Those kinds of discovery issues could only be approached in a meaningful way if participants felt that their particular viewpoint would not be subject to ridicule. This particular thread has been very constructive but it looks to me to be more the exception than the rule. What do you think?

A couple of you suggested that asking a dancer about specifics of what will be allowed (and/or provided) in the private room makes the relationship too much like prostitution. Isn't the essence of a strip club an exercise in walking along the narrow edge of prostitution? Aren't displays of various parts of the body, permitting various degrees of touching, and providing various sexual services simply points along a continuum? What precisely makes an arrangement prostitution or not? It can't be the payment for the activity, since that's equally evident for lap dances, private dances, and full prostitution services. How many of you would prefer that prostitution be widely legalized in the U.S.?

I personally don't see any magic boundary between what goes on in strip clubs and prostitution. I see instead an unbroken continuum of possibilities. I also don't oppose legal prostitution, except to the extent that some specific instances involve exploitation of troubled women.

In response by me not asking about sexual services, I don't ask or try to get extras as some refer here. I think that may be inviting trouble. That means I don't ask for or try to get things like hand jobs, BJ's or anything extra like that. That's not why I go to a strip club. Sometimes I enjoy just the eye candy in a club and other times I may enjoy getting a lap dance. The clubs I go to don't have any extras to my knowledge. I believe that may be why they have so many somewhat hidden cameras and bouncers all over the place.

I don't see what goes on in strip clubs as prostitution. I believe I think of prostitution as engaging in intercourse. Of course lawyers and the legal system may always twist things around to suit whatever they can get away with in my opinion.

As far as prostitution goes, I don't see a problem with it being legalized. It could then be regulated and everyone could get tested for sexual diseases and it might become safer for everyone if the spread of sexual diseases decreased. Instead of making things safer in this country, the public just wants everything hidden. I guess many might feel threatened if prostitutes were legally working in their home state. I believe senators, congressmen, and all the family and religious folks feel better letting people die or suffer rather than promote safer and legal alternatives. I guess it's like watching the situation in the middle east. In my opinion, most people in the US are not in a big uproar about the hundreds of people getting killed and injured. They may be innocent and the people in the US might be able to stop it by complaining to congress and the president but I don't see too many complaints.

The public would rather be in denial that in a better situation -- agreed. As with vice trades, where they don't want to legalize and protect and tax, but rather think they can "stamp out," the right wing and the public in general prefer the big cover-up over actually admitting it goes on and doing something intelligent about it. To some degree we're the same way in the USA about the "war on drugs" (Britain had a near-100% success rate with heroin recovery programs by giving free heroin, then free substitute, then weaning the patients in a halfway-house method that included job training, etc.; but then Thatcher changed to Ronald Reagan's model, NO WE DO NOT LIKE DRUGS!, and the success went to about 5%); about the war on terrorism (outreach? interfaith dialogue? making allies of moderate Islamic states rather than blowing them up? reducing cultural exports through tariffs and trade deals? nooo ... we want FREE MARKET EVERYWHERE NOW, how's that working out in Bagdad?); and many another "war on." We ought to have a reality show, "War On," like "Wild On," except Donald Rumsfeld could moderate.

This post is to clarify my views in relation to negotiating contact in advance. I guess I'd list the five things I most want when I go to a strip club (from most likely to occur to most likely to end up as wishful thinking) as (1) friendly and warm interactions with the dancers; (2) lots of lovely tits to look at, highlighted by erotic dancing; (3) touching tits and nipples; (4) intimate pussy views; and (5) fingering the gal's pussy until she cums. For me personally, getting an HJ or a BJ is not a priority, though I would not turn either down if it was offered and the environment was conducive. FS is not something that I would accept, even if offered, because I'm not going to jeopardize my health or that of my regular partner. Some strip clubs pretty much limit activities to numbers 1 & 2 on my list. I might go to such a club, but I would not expect to spend a lot of money there.

One of the clubs I go to offers private dancers for $20. They take place in a rather public area where there are usually two to four dancer/patron pairs operating simultaneously. There is no touching whatsoever except when the dancer brushes up against the patron. Any deviation from those rules would be easily noticed by the other girls and patrons, and possibly by a bouncer. Under such circumstances and for the modest price of $20, I'm happy to take whatever the dancer offers and let it be so.

That same club offers a Champagne Room experience, with typically costs $400-$600. The official rules still prohibit touching, but most of the girls offer a little and a few offer a lot. Even if the girl is willing, the extent of touching is constrained by the nearby presence of a supervisor, who paces the hall immediately outside the cubicles and interrupts if touching becomes too obvious. Realistically, the most that could be accomplished under such circumstances is dick-stroking through the pants, some breast contact, or some pussy fingering. It is relatively easy for the dancer to position herself on her hands and knees across the patron's lap with her pussy away from the viewpoint of the monitor. The monitor can then not easily distinguish mere looking from discrete touching of the pussy.

When I previously mentioned negotiating contact in advance, I was talking expressly about the Champagne Room situation. I, for one, have no interest in paying $400+ for air dancing but am willing to pay that kind of money for intimate touching. If a girl approaches me with an invitation to the Champagne Room, what are my options? One option is to simply decline on the assumption that she's going to abide by the rules and offer only air or non-intimate touching. Why would I pay $400 for such activities when I could use that same $400 to purchase 20 private dances downstairs if I were so inclined? A second option is to accept her invitation without any further discussion and then end up feeling ripped off when nothing extra is provided. The third option is to discuss in advance with the lady what she will and will not allow in the way of touching. I don't recommend negotiating specifics for lap dances or $20 private dances, but I do recommend doing so for any arrangements in a price range of $100 or more. I, for one, can't afford numerous $400 adventures waiting to find that one spontaneously generous dancer.

Another club that I go to offers $2-5 lap dances and $10-20 floor dances but no private room activities. Touching of breasts and most other body parts is both allowed and encouraged for the lap dances and floor dances, but pussy touching is prohibited. Most of the girls provide intimate pussy views as part of the dances. Since the dances are performed in a very open area with numerous on-lookers, including a bouncer, it is not feasible to deviate from the touching restrictions, even if the dancer were willing. So, in this situation, there is virtually nothing that could be negotiated, other than possibly OTC activities for a later time. The girls have little discretion. The only slight "extra" I was able to purchase on one occasion was to hand a particularly lovely and friendly dancer $30 instead of the usual $20 for a floor dance and then to ask her to give me the most in the way of pussy views that she felt comfortable displaying. She obliged very nicely.

To sum up, then, I do NOT advocate negotiated when (a) there is nothing that can be realistically negotiated because the rules are firm and the dancer has little discretion; or (b) for relatively low priced standard lap dances or air dances. I do advocate negotiating contact for high priced, private room interactions, so as to protect yourself from expensive disappointments. The only other possibilities for me are to routinely refuse to purchase the more expensive options at variable-mileage clubs or to search out higher-mileage clubs.

"A couple of you suggested that asking a dancer about specifics of what will be allowed (and/or provided) in the private room makes the relationship too much like prostitution."

Doc: I don't care about privacy and I'm not interested in actual sex in a strip club. It would only interefere with my strip club experience, and I'd rather get it in other ways where I can enjoy it better. I like strip clubs for all the thrills they offer that you can't get anywhere else: lap dances, stage tipping, hanging out with half naked young girls playing the role of nymphomaniacs, choosing from among a roomful of girls who all act like there's nothing they want more than a chance to give me pleasure. You can't get those things at a regular bar, on a date, with an escort or at a whorehouse. If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me.

I don't mind that extras are available in strip clubs. The possiblity that anything could happen adds excitement. I don't give much thought to what crosses the line into prostitution. It seems pretty hard to argue that lap dancing isn't a form of prostitution, even though it isn't legally treated as that in most places. If it isn't prostitution, then it's not a good lap dance.

"If it isn't prostitution, then it's not a good lap dance." LOL!!

I'd agree, that "what crosses the line" is silly to argue. Many girls will say, "I ain't a prostitute!" and "I ain't no HO!" with great indignance; then get naked on your lap, reach a hand into your shorts, and jerk your willy until you finish. I think for these innocents, they're more worried about the word than the deed (which is, of course, the definition of prudish hypocrisy, but that's a different issue).

In the long run, "sexual services" include the girl at the cigar counter who leans over to let you ogle her tits, and then smiles at you knowingly and conspiratorially as though you and she might get it on later in the evening, while accepting $50 for three sticks of tobacco. She'll do the same with every bald bespectacled fat slob smelling of candy-flavored Doc Owls who comes in that day; and the store owner is no fool to put her at the front register.

It's probably cheaper to get your sex for pay than for free, as they say. For me it's the only option most of the time, so there's no comparison.

Oh, and Chandler, when I find out how to get yound women to traipse about half-naked playing the role of nymphomaniac toward me when I'm not in a strip club, why ON EARTH would I let you in on the secret? I'm not tellin' ANYONE except ... other hot girlies. My harem, thank you.

BTW.......if any of my fellow Vegas mongerers know who I am talking about, let me know if you know where she is at and if she is still dancing. She was blonde, maybe late 30's and went by the name D%#A.

My ATF experience was at a club in vegas. It was at Sheri's cabaret when the place was known for contact. There was a gal there who was a bit older and placed my hand on the kitty in VIP. Well, I got her off, and to my surprise her squirting abilities rivaled those of Cytherea. Luckily We were in a position where she missed me and kept hitting the wall of the booth and the floor. I used to go there weekly for her until the rules changed. In a half hour she would get off 3 to 5 times. She is probably long since retired by now but that's one memory I won't ever forget. Recently used my technique mentioned above at Cheetahs a few weeks ago with similar results but alas no shower. Still a lot of fun.

I'll sum things up by saying it's your money to decide how you want to spend. If talking to a dancer for a few minutes saves you money and time, it might be a good idea to ask what her rules are and how much a dance costs to avoid the rip off. A different dancer could very well have different rules and costs which is also a bit dependent upon if a club charges per dance or if the dancers can set their own dance prices. I don't go to strip clubs looking for sexual services either so I never ask about that. I think asking is crossing the line into something else. Some dancers may occasionally tell me things after they trust me a bit but I avoid asking.

Sorry to chime in so late on this. The mileage I've given and received really depends on the girl and clubs I've been in. At one club this one particuilar dancers gives me frequent flyers miles, yet at the other club VLM and the other clubs she gets the extra mileage thru the sweats.

Looks dont really matter as some of the hottest girls are somewhat prudish to the mileage, while some of the 5-7's are real handy.

Guys one note if you come to NJ and go VIP in Linden, it's dry club as I've mentioned, the service here quite satisfactory. Lexi has excellent hand service. Some of the dancers beg for tips and others accept just the cost of the dances.

At this club stay away from Amber...a big girl overweight and very easy to get what ever you want.

So Doc if you come to Jersey here is one outlook.

You guys have been very helpful and I want you to know I appreciate your input. I'm paying attention to and mulling over the various pearls of wisdom you've provided, collectively. Visiting strip clubs is a new hobby for me. I've been at it for only a month. I have pretty decent interpersonal skills, but they are better adapted to some environments and circumstances than others. I've had the experience of being well-liked and even popular at times and not well liked at other times. As Popeye would say, "I yam what I yam." Whether my personal style will prove effective within the strip club culture remains to be seen.

So far, I've found my strip club experiences both exhilarating and frustrating. One always wants more. I have two different home states and have yet to explore the world of strip clubs in one of the two. Judging from the listings and reviews at this website, I anticipate a wide variety of options there. It's not especially important whether one dancer or even one club's entire corps of dancers decides I'm a pathetic loser, provided I'm able ultimately to find at least one pleasant club where I fit in nicely and can get the kind of interactions I desire. I like to take a few interpersonal risks now and then, hoping for the best, rather than just playing it safe.

I don't really have in mind establishing a dating relationship with the dancer that I mentioned in the last post. I was thinking more in terms of a one-time, lets-get-to-know-one-another occasion that would serve to add another level of enjoyment to the pay-for-touching relationship that we now have. Like another poster stated, my ultimate desire in relating with any stripper or dancer who appeals to me is the highest degree of genuine intimacy that she will allow. I don't count bases but I do care about how much real contact is established, physical and emotional.

Komey, I don't think you can generalize about that. Every situation and eery girl is different. I've had lots of success doing exactly what Doc suggests. It doesn't always work but it does sometimes. Some girls will interpret your willingness togive them money as a sign that you'r willing to help them with their problems, if they're having money problems. It all depends on the specific situation and how you handle it.

I have a little trick that seems to work pretty well and have gotten superb mileage in clubs that are not known for it.

When I am getting a VIP dance I sit quietly with my hand on my knees. I make no effort to ask about touching etc. Nearly always the girl will place her hands over mine, and I try to GENTLY interlock her fingers. If she places them on her breasts etc. touching is okay and encouraged. After a while I put my hands back on my knees. If she grinds her kitty into my hand then touching the kitty is okay as well. IF she keeps it up, I will try to slip the g-string aside with the back of my finger. You would be suprised how many girls encourage this until they get off.

It does help to be VERY clean, dressed well and smell good.

komey is on the right track.

The poster needs to be honest with himself and clear about his intentions with the stripper.

If he wants to date her he needs to stop being her customer. If he wants to be her customer he has to realize he has a snowball's chance in hell of dating her if he remains a customer for long (one visit will cut your chances in half, after about 3 you are pretty much SOL.)

Unlike other posters on this board, I assert there is nothing wrong with wanting to date strippers. But if you want to do so then don't be their customer. If you want to know their "true selves" they are very unlikely to reveal it if you are paying them money. You'll have to get out of the customer frame in order to see that.

If you want to try and mix "customer" and "paid for dating" fine, just realizes that as much you will start to feel otherwise your chance of it turning to real dating are effectively zero.

Doc,

If you want anything more than being just a customer, paying for conversation isn't going to do it. The restaurant offer is fine - but don't pay for time. That will send up a signal that you are a PL.

Doc, take seriously Chandler's advice about moving on from unsatisfactory dancers and clubs. You aren't going to change the orientation of a person or establishment. My personal experience--and I don't try to pass it off as more than that--is that you will never get more contact than you get on the first dance. On subsequent dances, and on subsequent visits, as the dancer gets to know and trust you, your dances will consist of a progressivley higher proportion of "intimate contact", and it will first occur earlier in the dance. But I have found that a dancer who will not, for example, let me touch her boobs the first time I get a dance from her, likely will not later let me do so in subsequent dances. Most dances are very honest about their limits...I truly believe that most of the times that customers are decieved in a strip club, those customers are themselves the ones guilty of the deception. As the management guru Peter Drucker said, the best indicator of future performance is past performance.

It sounds as though the club you have been going to just is not going to give you what you want. If that is typical of clubs in your area (if, for example, you are interned in Omaha, Madison WI, or some similar place), then your only alternative may be to become an "on the road" hobbiest. Not the best state of affairs, but it beats anything that Charles Kuralt came up with.

Doc: We're all patrons, not shills. My best dances and mileage have always come from picking the right girl, establishing a bit of rapport, and remaining open to whatever direction the dance takes between the two of us. NEVER by going into it with a checklist of body parts I'd like to touch or have touched and then persuading her to go along with my script. Neither of you is in control, especially not you, so you're not giving up anything. When it works out, the result is better than just meeting your expectations. If you like the dance, then think about getting another. If you don't like it, then move on to another girl. If there aren't any girls whose dances you like, then move on to another club. That's all I mean by going with the flow.

Emotional involvement is good. I'm not sure what you're referring to about avoiding it. I'd say don't try to avoid it because you can't. Just be careful about losing your head and your money expecting it to be returned.

Are all of you patrons only or are some of the folks who post here club owners, managers, bouncers, or other employees? The advice about going with the flow and giving up on control sounds like it comes more from a management perspective than a patron perspective. I have an aversion to paying a lot and getting nothing or very little in return.

A few weeks ago, I tried to arrange some private time with my favorite dancer in the local club. She is a small, tight-framed blond with the build of an Olympic gymnast (female, that is), an adorable face, and a sparkling personality to boot. We were already on speaking terms, so I told her I was looking for a full touch arrangement – me touching her. In this particular club, it's pretty much out of the realm of possibility for a guy to get off anyway, unless you go OTC. The private rooms are anything but private. They are merely high-backed booths. Moreover, the equivalent of the dorm mother prowls about outside. The official rules of the club are no touching whatsoever, even in the highly expensive private rooms and the monitor comes in to remind you if she sees any significant contact. Such circumstances just wouldn't work for me no matter how valiant the gal's effort.

The lovely dancer's response was that she'd have to get $1000 for that but for $500 I could touch her except for her pussy and asshole. I've forgotten what she said about breasts at the $500 level. I said I could pay her $500, but it would have to be full touch privileges. She then declared that it was against her principles and gave me the song and dance about saving something for the guy at home. I was tempted to remind her that it had not been against her "principles" at $1000, but only at $500, but I decided to forgo the point in the hopes that something might develop with her later. Keep in mind that in offering her $500, I would have been incurring a total cost over $700 because this club collects $220 minimum just for use of the booth for an hour. Some of you may now have doubts about my sanity, offering that much for touch privileges only, but this particular gal was so hot by my particular tastes that I know I would have regretted not offering that much for the rest of my life. A thousand, however, was out of my price range, especially since the room monitor might have prevented me from getting my money's worth.

I especially appreciate the advice that one of you offered about avoiding signs of emotional involvement. I think that my tendency is to want emotional involvement and to show that desire. In an ideal world, I'd like to have emotional involvement with the dancer to the point of warmth and perhaps, given time, friendship. I'm not looking to fall in love with the girl, however. I can see now that any such overtures of emotional attachment, even at the stage of friendship, could be problematic for the gal. One club that I go to offers only lap dances and floor dances, so the most consecutive time you can purchase with one of the dancers is two songs, which is precious little time to make any kind of personal connection. Then she moves on immediately to other patrons. I'm particularly fond of one of the dancers and was thinking about asking her if she'd like to go out to an excellent restaurant on one of her nights off. I'd not only pay for her dinner and drinks, but her time as well, if the price was reasonable, and all I'd ask for was conversation. I'd love to get a better idea of what she's truly like as a person. Then, later, when we were back at the club, I'd enjoy touching her all the more. Would a restaurant offer of that type be crazy? What do you think?

True (sometimes), No, and none of the above.

Doc: 1)Sometimes 2)No 3) All of the above// You need to do 3 things: 1) ROAD TRIP: Either by car to Canada, or buy bargain fare ticket to FL, TX, etc 2)Bring plenty of cash 3) Take chitowns and chandlers advice to heart.

Doc, I think you'll find that your third sentence is often the case, the fanciest and highest priced places frequently have low contact. One reason is that they have a big investment to protect so they're much more careful to enforce local laws. If you're looking for high contact and maybe more, the small seedy places are often your best bet. But they also usually have fewer attractive dancers. For example, I know of two clubs that are near each other, one is a really fancy gentlemen's club, the other a tiny dive. The dive is full of fuglies giving HJs and BJs, the gentlemen's club is full of attractive girls giving medium contact laps under close supervision for three times the price of the dive. I think that's pretty typical.

Thanks, guys, for the insights. I still have a lot to learn. My total number of strip club visits is just seven so far. The club located closest to me is a low mileage, high priced facility where you could pay $500 for the Champagne Room and end up with nothing but air dances, so I'm not convinced that just going with the flow will work around here. I got what I wanted one time by negotiating it in advance. The hottest girls here seem to have the most stringent limits, but my sample is small. Personally, I'm more interested in touching the dancer than vice versa, since one is a unique opportunity while the other can be accomplished in various ways. I was just curious as to whether my priorities were atypical.

An addendum to my earlier response.

1. I'd be willing to bet that few of us here ever buy dances from the fuglies in a club where there are hot girls present. I know that I never do. So none of us knows the answer to this question, we're all just guessing.

2. I completely agree with Chitown. It's not a good practice for a lot of reasons.

3. I also agree with Chitown about girls usually being more comfortable touching you than the other way around, because for you to touch them seems a lot more intimate. Which is why I like it.

Chitown, I think you're right on.

1. False. The hottest strippers give the best dances.

2. No. I avoid strippers who put conditions on contact.

3. N/A. My priority is enjoying the girl and the dance. Specifics aren't important.

I also agree with FONDL's earlier comments about control. I quit worrying about getting to third base in high school.

Question 1 has been discussed here at length before and the concensus seemed to be that there was little relationship between looks and mileage in a given club, although I don't totally agree with that.

Question 2 has also been discussed a little, at least the part about negotiating price, and it turns out that many of us often don't negotiate at all, but that seems to depend on where we are. As for part two of the question, I'd never attempt to negotiate contact in advance, that's something most girls won't do, but I do ask a girl what her rules are in advance. Just be aware that many girls will lead you to believe that they are willing to do a lot more than they will actually do. And how much they do will to some extent depends on how you treat them and how well you know them - a regular customer will sometimes get a lot more than someone who they don't know.

Question 3 - personally I'm more interested in doing the touching although I like both. Part 2 doesn't apply to me, I don't generally do any of those things. And I think you'll find that the guys here who do don't usually pay extra for it. And how easy it is to get something vs. something else varies greatly from girl to girl so it's hard to generalize.

Sounds to me like you're too hung up on specifics, you need to relax and just go with the flow. Every encounter is different and you can't predict or control what's going to happen. Stop trying to control the outcome and you'll have more fun.

1. There is no correlation.

2. I don't haggle. Even if I did, I wouldn't haggle over contact. You are treading too closely to prostitution, or at least a situation that could get you kicked out of the club. In addition, there is no point in arguing over something that is probably unenforceable anyway, unless you find tha the process has some ientertainment value for you.

3. My observation: The dancer is more comfortable with contact with your naughty bits than with hers. With respect to contact with your naughty bits, she wants the contact that will involve the least exposure to your splooge. WIth respect to contact with her naughty bits, she is looking for the form that involves as little appearance/i,pression of emotional intimacy as possible (some dancers who are married or have serious boyfriends justify not kissing the customers on the basis that at least they are saving Something for the boy back at home). So, the hierarchy would be:

Rubbing your crotch through your pants. HJ BJ You fingering her You eating her FS French kissing.

I would rather be touched than touch the stripper.