Don't Tip Your Dancer? Go Directly to Jail . . .

I hear ya, one of the only times I ever agreed to pay a dancer for more dances she did happened recently. Her big, black manager obviously wasn't going to let me leave, and I figured he'd beat the crap out of me so I gave the bitch, $10 more.

I saw this news story. The report did not explain why there was a 22% tip automatically added to the tab. Since when is any tip mandatory? If so, it should be not called a tip and be classified as service fee and taxed as income.

Gatorfan is right, but try arguing that at 1am in a stripclub. At Cheetah's in Detroit last week, they waitress added $100.00 on my debit card for rounds of drinks I did not order. She said the other dancers that ordered them said they were on me. I did buy one round for two dancers I talked to when I came in, but they took it as an open tab. I paid it to avoid a fight. I hear stories from all over time about "add ons." Dancers, waiters and others know that a customer cannot win the fight. Cash only, with tip. No drinks for dancers.

Lot's of places have "automatic" tips. They add them for different reasons, sometimes very shifty reasons.

Although the worst ever was in Costa Rica, they tacked on all kinds of odd charges at a few places, then forgot to how to speak english when I asked... but I digress.

I try hard not to let myself get ripped off, I'll take it to the manager and rarely have much of a problem after I do that. Even at a club, unless it's nominal, I'm not going to pay it. It perpetuates the system of rip offs.

The article also mentioned that the manager offered to comp their food but the two people deny he offered to do that. Sounds like they were either really drunk or the manager is a former SC manager.

It sounds like they wont be going to that restaurant in Lehigh (a boring town, I guess the cops had nothing better to do).

And we shouldn't be bringing our debit/credit cards inside strip clubs. Paying cash should avoid any automatic tips and I'd question whether any strip club would ever dare try to demand we pay a tip or they'd call the police.

Also many SCs run the scam that they charge a $15 "transaction fee" for using credit cards to pay for LDs. What a waste.

Customers who don't like paying tips may just leave and stay away or possibly never come back. I know of one dancer that annoyed me again asking for a tip after a $10 table dance. No one else does there and she seems to have trouble remembering that she asked for and got the money for the table dance before the dance. I will stay away and avoid the club now. Others may follow the same pattern. When the club doesn't have many customers, someone will get that message. That's on top of the fact that the dancers aren't as appealing to me there anymore either. I'm talking about a club called Nepals. Platinum Plus down the road isn't as appealing as it used to be either even though some familar faces still seem to show up very late at night. I don't care for their increased cover charge after midnight. I'm not going to visit any strip club this coming weekend.

"any strip club would ever dare try to demand we pay a tip or they'd call the police."

Sometimes the police work with the club. And, most likely it wouldn't be for a tiny tip (but, then again see the couple in the article who got arrested and hauled to jail; heck, they might even get convicted; accountability and such crap.)

The reasonfor the arest wa that 18% gratuity was required for groups of six or more. Pope didn't want to leave a tip because of extremely poor service (she had to get her own plates, cutlery, and drinks).

Recently I left a waitress a .25 cent tip because:

Someone else brought my tea
and my food
and a condiment
and refreshed my tea.

The only time I saw my waitress-she took my order and brought the check.

Also, I complained to a manager (at another place) because a waitress ignored me and I had to flag her down. Two other waiters also ignored me. The next time I went to that place, she stepped up her game, but she was still inadequate.

"Mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron.

And for dances at an SC, it's all gratuity, as far as I'm concerned.

I've got to say the "tip" on top of the dance price has just started rearing it's ugly head for me as more dancers seem to "demand" it then before. In the past, most girls have seemed to take the base rate without a problem. What's the deal with this? Are they trying to squeeze us for more or is management squeezing them for more than their fare share. I've seen plenty on this site about budgeting. So if a $20 dance becomes $30 a vip visit proportionally more because of the added "tip" whats the point of getting them? Because of this, the stage dance is slowly becoming a thing of the past what with it's lousy $1 tips. This is lamentable. I've always enjoyed the show and "tipped" well for it.

Another thought. Is this like the housing bubble? Has a few idoit men in better times with lot's of money wanted to shown off and out bid each other for a piece of 'A?' Now there are expectations on the rest of us normal guys simply looking for some distraction from the daily toil.

"The report did not explain why there was a 22% tip automatically added to the tab."

It was 18%, and I guess it was the bar's policy that tips are automatically added to the bill for large parties, which in this case was 6 or more people. Usually those kind of policies are stated right on the bill and/or on the menu.

"If so, it should be not called a tip and be classified as service fee and taxed as income."

Tips ARE taxed as income.

BTW, there's almost no way that those "theft" charges will hold up in court.

"BTW, there's almost no way that those 'theft' charges will hold up in court."

Another liberal fantasy. Anyway, the damage has already been done in that they've got criminal records. *If* I read/remember the article correctly, then their attorney is already begging to cut a deal with the government. There is a huge shortage of criminals so these folks are just caught up in the game.

jablake, I disagree with the notion that strip clubs are going to receive the support of local police departments, especially on mandatory gratuitys. If you have a specific example of any strip club having a club patron arrested for not paying specifically a gratuity, please share it with us. These clubs have a difficult enough task of enforcing payment on lap dances. In 15+ years of going to strip clubs I am not aware of 1 time when the police was called on a non-payment of a tip.

"There is a huge shortage of criminals..."
Jablake, are you being sarcastic, or what?

"jablake, I disagree with the notion that strip clubs are going to receive the support of local police departments"

Well, maybe not the *entire* police department. :) Just the gentlemen earning extra on the side for being helpful. This is Miami so I doubt not paying the tip would result in arrest for theft of gratuity; it more like result in result for gun possession, drug charges, murder (even if the supposed victims are still alive), etc. Pay the tip-----one way or the other.

"'There is a huge shortage of criminals...'
Jablake, are you being sarcastic, or what?"

No, I'm being very serious.

"Arrest-Proof Yourself: An Ex-Cop Reveals How Easy It Is for Anyone to Get Arrested, How Even a Single Arrest Could Ruin Your Life, and What to Do If the Police Get in Your Face by Dale C. Carson and Wes Denham (Paperback - Jan 1, 2007)." http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=se…

The Ex-Cop also touches slightly upon the economic value of making arrests and getting convictions. People's jobs depend on keeping the prisons filled. That is why you'll see all many of silly arrests and draconian sentences. Not saying the government won't let out a mass murder or two due to "over crowding." Got to keep the cattle scared and eager for more police and more prisons and subservient to endless laws. Even in the good old days (decades ago) people were doing jail time over nothing-----A condo unit that I owned *Unit 16* actually had a history where a man did a year in jail for the "crime" of living in that unit because the unit was deemed too small----I believe it was 413 SF and in order to be legal needed to be 425 SF. Now liberals and cattle class and pseudo-conservatives would believe that couldn't happen essentially because this is America. Bullshit. Power corrupts.

Correction: so I doubt not paying the tip would result in arrest for theft of gratuity; it more like result in arrest for gun possession, drug charges,

The Wall Street Journal had a piece a some years back where they were completely outraged by a judge making the statement that she was sick of police officers coming into her court and telling lies under oath.

My opinion was that The Wall Street Journal was exhibiting clear symptoms of pseudo-conservatism e.g. law and order even when corruption is demonstrably pellucid.

The gravamen was that day in and day out police officers would come into court and swear under oath that the alleged drug dealer dropped the drugs. So, thousands and thousands of drug dealers are just going around dropping drugs so police can make arrests? It was a running joke amongst the police and some would argue the ends justified the means. Who cares is police officers lie under oath as long as the drug dealers are arrested?

It goes further than the ends justify the means, however. The Wall Street Journal piece was going off the deep end in rage because the judge was telling truth about an issue that might make some people dislike the police---not everyone approves of fabricating evidence etc.

I dont bring my gun or carry drugs into strip clubs. I also dont let anyone decide how much and when a strip club tip is merited.

jablake, you're taking this thread way off tangent from what was a simple 2 college-age objectors to lousy service and a restaurant automatically adding 22% tip to a tab (and probably more to the story as to what prompted police to be called) compared to avoidance of arrest for actual criminal activity. Not paying a gratuity is hardly comparable to drug and weapons charges.

Hi gatorfan,

You're missing the point. The "crime" may be for not paying the tip, but the police not wanting to look silly have a habit of upgrading the charges. :)

So, don't pay that stripper tip and don't be crying when the police upgrade the charges-----hint, hint, hint-----you don't need have drugs or weapons it is just too easy to see you "drop" the drugs----again you don't need to "drop" drugs or have drugs. It is a game. Normal people pay off and the fools that don't may end up with an arrest record and perhaps jail time.

"restaurant automatically adding 22% tip to a tab (and probably more to the story as to what prompted police to be called)"

The story refers to an 18% gratuity so I'm not sure where you are getting a 22% from. Also, the more to the story mentality is just the normal cop-out people often use for a number of reasons. Probably they'd like to think it could never happen to them because they support the police. Or, they don't want to think valuable resources are being wasted on such nonsense. Or, etc.

I bet the tenant of Unit 16 believed the police would never arrest him and especially that he wouldn't do jail time (the courts would protect him idiocy) for living in a residential unit that was like 413 SF instead of the mandatory 425 SF. The cattle won't learn as general rule.

BTW, my laudry man would call the cops over a $1 dispute. The solution is to pay the $1 or the $10 or whatever small amount he demands and then go to a different laundry-----fortunately choosing a different laundry is a real solution in my area. No need to put up with poor service. The laundry man who'd call the cops (not on me, btw or my friends either) wasn't a bad person. And, he believed he was in the right. He may have been in the right----I don't want a $1 stolen from me even if I'm not going to call the police. Bottom line that laundry would call the police and I just didn't like that mentality so I took my business to a laundry across the street.

Also, that laundry went under! :) New management and I now have been using that laundry for years. A machine doesn't heat the owner is happy to replace my money and makes me feel like a valued customer. Downside? His prices are higher. It would be better dollar wise not to have my money replaced and get the lower prices of the laundry man always calling the police.

In the book that I cited above the Ex-Cop tells about a child who was arrested for throwing pecans at a school bus. The charges? Something like felony launching of deadly missles etc. The law is a big business fraud. :)

I remember children throwing pine cones----those are a lot more dangerous than pecans, btw. It was child's play and it wasn't limited to the children. I remember the bus driver getting out and launching a few pine cones-----he wasn't actually trying to hit the children just scare 'em a little. In this sick society those children may be arrested on felony charges because it is a money game; a fraud.

jablake, Philly's Action News report I saw on TV claimed a 22% tip was automatically added to the tab. I know different regions of the country clearly have different concerns for police set-ups. I do not share your concern of the police in NJ/Philly ever being called to a strip club on a gratuity issue and dropping a bag of drugs to frame a suspect. I'm not saying it doesn't or can't happen, I'm just telling you that most strip clubs in this area are getting busted by police for solicitation, occasional fight breaking out, and clubs in this area are not quick to have the police involved for fear Liquor Control Board would revoke their license for incidents and too much news.

Incidentally, I saw a followup news report on the original no tip story. The D.A. dropped the charges and said the entire matter should have been left as a civil matter, no criminal charges should have been brought. They did re-state it was a 22% tip automatically added to the restaurant tab.

Case closed.

When a dancer asks for a tip, anyone ever told her "how about not asking for one?" If a dancer asks for a tip, it increases the chance I will not ever get another dance from her again. Unless of course she really did do something extra to deserve it. I see dancers asking for tips being similar to bums on the street asking for money especially if all they are doing is walking around the club asking for dances and when you say no, then they ask well how about a tip? A tip for what? To get you to leave, uh ok. That might be worth a dollar.

The difference between bums and strippers, some strippers feel entitled or obligated to receive the tip.

lol @ gatorfan... I have heard some bums in NYC make good money in tips.
I remember at the waffle house they add on a mandatory tip if you order a carry out order (I ordered a cup of coffee). What a joke but it is still considered hella cheap with strip club prices.

There recently was a story in The Detroit News where one of the guys on the exit ramp from the freeway was making over $500 per day just holding up a sign that he was homeless ------- when breaqk time would come he would go to his nice new car and have lunch ----- what a scam ---- tax free on top of it!

slickpeter,

Makes the case for a federal consumption tax replacing the income tax.

A dancer at the Goldrush in Atlanta (see my recent review) took me for $20. I paid before the dance and she claimed I didn't. I insisted that I had paid but when she persisted I told her I had already paid but was going to give her the $20 and did. She kept insisting that I hadn't paid after I gave her the money and I kept insisting she hadn't and I told her to go away and not come back. She would have made much more that night from me if she hadn't figuratively screwed me.

jab: good work! She ripped you off $20 and you let her get away with it. You ought to be really proud for standing up for yourself like that.