What kills an ATF relationship?

An ATF can always remain an ATF. Mine is and I've not seen her dance in years, but no one has been able to fill her shoes. Maybe we need a PTF, as in Present Time Favorite.

My 1st ATF stood me up for dinner. I found out later that she just quit the business and moved out of state. No last words for me.

I hesitate to call my 2nd and current relationship with a dancer as ATF. It has gone way beyond that. I have known her for about 7 years. She does not normally even dance anymore but will meet me at the club any time I am in town. We did lunch on her 32nd birthday last month with TUSCL_Brother and did breakfast with him and Gwen the next day. We have plans to visit the zoo on the 16th.I am meeting snowtime at the club on the 15th. It is a given that she will join us. I just refer to her as a special friend. There is nothing that we don't share with each other. I am cock blocking myself to spend the time with her. Gwen has quoted the special price of $150 for FS at my hotel. My special friend does not object. "I don't want your money. I just enjoy spending time with you". What a gal.

my ATF has also left the business, but we continue to see each other. Over time, I am certain our relationship will change. She's 30 yrs younger than I am and at some point wants to start a family. Nothing would make me happier than to see her find Mr. Right. Until then, though, we continue to enjoy each other's company.

My first ATF just up and disappeared-changed her phone number, address, and club.

My second ATF, an associate of hers, gave up drinking after getting arrested in the club for giving blowjobs. She cut me off, then about a year later borrowed a small sum of money. Even though six months have passed and three requests for repayment, she won't repay with cash, or in free lappers.

My PTF is inconsistent, sometimes she gives up the pussy, sometimes not.

It sounds like everyone's ATF's are all OTC (outside club) situations? I can say what usually has me moving on from ATF inside the club is usually either: A) tired of same old same old or B) girl moves on to bigger and better things. If talking about OTC, cant say that I make a habit of paying for sex outside if there is mileage available inside the club (even a HJ counts) not to mention I dont always care to some of the complications (borrowed money, phone call asking about favors, or whatever else) I like to keep it simple and inside the clubs walls.

A lack of balance.

so the former atf was always pressing me to come in and "see her". if i ever came in and didnt get an ld from her, or if ,worse yet, i got a dance from another, she did that whole jealous gf thing. funny thing, was any otc meeting i tried to initiate, (coffee, nothing serious), she'd flake. i got sick of it. if i needed an emotionally unstable girl, id get one.

basically the expectations were a total one-way street from her. no dice.

Usually for me, they just disappear. The one obvious exception was the one I had who went psycho on me, but then she disappeared as well. But I'm not exactly going out of the way for her. One of them does dance occasionally and I will get the email from her when she does.

I second the notion of PTF, as for the most part, girls in the ATF category aren't always currently dancing, at least somewhere accessible to me. After a while, someone else comes along.

I told my first ATF I was moving far away one night. Looking depressed she told me she was in love with me.

another favorite disappeared on me after loaning her $100. Found her by accident at a club a few months later and she was terrified. I really do not know why she was so terrified that I was there. I'm not a hitman and I didn't intend to do anything to her.

another favorite just disappeared on me. I figure she either decided to stay home to avoid the police or got fired from the club. I decided not to call and ask when I first noticed she wasn't there one weekend. Then it became two weekends, then never again. I call her my ATF nymphomaniac.

I believe another favorite did get fired from the club. I didn't recall her name so when a bouncer told me so and so wasn't working there anymore, I didn't put two and two together right away.

I think a lack of communication is a problem with ATFs. They are usually not very well educated and don't know how to communicate very well. I once brought in over $200 to spend on my ATF (ITC) and ended up only spending around $10 (stage tips) because she did not know how to just sit down and chat. She prefers sitting with groups of men so she just has to sit there and laugh then give dances during uptimes. One to one conversation is not her cup of tea.

Most of my ATFs have either moved or quit the business. I've ditched a few for being too much about dances/money. Plus I think our time mostly mine for granted is a turn off.

Demands for money, lieing and broken dates.

I don't really do the ATF thing. From what I've heard about them, what most typically kills it is when the PL becomes dissatisfied with the stripper-customer relationship and begins to push too hard for things like getting together outside the club, having sex, and dating. They yearn to turn the fantasy into a real relationship. The stripper knows she has to hint that these things could happen in order to keep the PL going, but that to actually provide them would put an end to his fascination. Things fall apart when the stripper can no longer disguise the fact that it isn't real.

Judging from the posts on this board, and from discussions with strippers, sounds like chandler is 100% "on the mark".

chandler is wrong in one respect. I never pushed for meeting OTC. She was the one that broached that subject. We had know each other nearly a year at that point.

OTC offers are teasers to keep the money flowing. Chandler is right on the mark.

Things that make me move on are, generally ...

1. I "get to know" the girl and find out, that I don't like what I learn. She complains about certain races (usually Asians are most reviled; sometimes Blacks) or has extremely poor hygiene or etiquette, or something else that is "too close for comfort."

2. I get bored with her. I was initially besotted because of the novelty, and she's no longer novel.

2.b. I get attached to another girl, someone new and more fascinatingly novel.

3. A major one: she turns out to be a poor performer over time. For example, our first few interactions at a club, she is sprightly and gay and delightful, and maybe the lappers are excellent or maybe just around par, doesn't matter. Then, I catch her when she's a dud, she complains about her boyfriend (WTF! always let me be the ONLY man in your life!), and her lappers are under-handedly low-service. In fact ...

4. She takes me for granted. I can remember a thousand times that I've moved on from a girl because I could read this in her eye, demeanor, attitude, logistics: "Oh, he's a regular, I can go flirt with the other boys whose money I want, because this poor sot will wait around all night." Or, "I can give him a lack-luster lapper because ..."

what chandler said belongs in a book, very well written.

Chandler -- Bingo!

Dr. gk thanks all of you for sharing these thoughts with the group. We'll talk more about this topic when we meet again next week.

Seriously, though: these are some interesting and profound things we've talked about.

Chandler, very true in some cases. But these relatiobnships are sometimes choices made with advance knowlede of the risks.

Maybe we also need to distinguish between FAV and ATF. I've had a fav lose interest in me after learning I wouldn't invest in a business proposal and another one when I demonstrated pocket discipline. We expect these things to happen.

Here's a twist though--a couple dancers who left the business remain good friend with me. One WAS an ATF when she danced, and now we're just good friends. The other dancer WAS NOT an ATF nor a fav, but now that she's out of the business, we continue a friendship that sometimes includes you know what.

Keeping things in the "fantasy" column does provide for a safety zone. For me, stepping outside that zone (without being stupid) makes life more interesting. On one side of the coin, then, the Chandler point is very true: tease-fantasy-reality sometimes don't mix. But we have to admit there is another side to the coin with evidence that some things are not tease and some promises are kept. But like life, nothing is guaranteed.

The whole idea that it is a "relationship" at all when you are paying is very bizarre to begin with, and, undoubtedly a source fo the problems.